love and hell in christianity

[lolwatever]

well, if i believed this, i would not be an agnostic - i would be a muslim, christian or ? this does not mean that i am right and you are wrong - it is just my belief. i believe in god, but not religion. i know this will make no sense to you and that's perfectly ok.

That's such a cruel god that you believe in then, a god who doesn't care to even give us any guidelines for how to operate this massive planet with all its inhabitants

You'd be annoyed to buy a copy of windows (without any previous knowledge of it) n find that you don't get any manuals n that u only get the hang of it after 10 computer crashes wich costs u n arm and a leg to fix at the PC repair center.:heated:

Yet you're not bothered to learn that a system that was created for you (which is faaaaaar mroe advanced than a puny little software) comes with absolutely no guidelines wat so wever from the creatorffended: ? What sort of god is that? :uuh:

You might think you're intelligent enough to figure the rules for yourself, but how about when it comes to managing entire societies n civilisations and settng guidelines for international affairs?? You're intelligent enough to come up with your own rules, but other people are intelligent enough to come up with their own wims n desires too... so who puts an end to all the confusion and opinions? Isn't it that the creator of the universe has the most right to be listened and obeyed to? Considering he knows his creation more than anything or anyoen else?

i understand that islam is a complete way of life, (as is judaism btw). but a muslim can be a sinner, and as long as he hasn't practiced shirk or denied islam, he will still go to heaven, after spending some time in hell first. but the same is not true for a non-muslim, regardless of how he lives his life. in this case, it is like christianity, but i think islam places more importance on acts than christianity does.
personally, i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

^ ill reply 2dat when i get bak

no offense intended btw... jsut thought there where some fundamental problems to be adressed with ur belief....

and let me say something, as Muslims... we don't believe, we KNOW.. it's more than just belief and resigning to the statement 'ah well, we believe this, u believe that.... no point arguin.. we'll leave it at that'....

Considering the degree of accuracy of our prophets predictions and advises (which caem thru revelation)... really.. it's beyond doubt that Islam is the true path to success in Allah's eyes.

and once again.. we're not playing god as some ppl like to accsue us.. we're jsut quoting straight out of his books

take care wish u all the best!

 

[snakelegs]

That's such a cruel god that you believe in then, a god who doesn't care to even give us any guidelines for how to operate this massive planet with all its inhabitants

You'd be annoyed to buy a copy of windows (without any previous knowledge of it) n find that you don't get any manuals n that u only get the hang of it after 10 computer crashes wich costs u n arm and a leg to fix at the PC repair center.:heated:

Yet you're not bothered to learn that a system that was created for you (which is faaaaaar mroe advanced than a puny little software) comes with absolutely no guidelines wat so wever from the creatorffended: ? What sort of god is that? :uuh:

You might think you're intelligent enough to figure the rules for yourself, but how about when it comes to managing entire societies n civilisations and settng guidelines for international affairs?? You're intelligent enough to come up with your own rules, but other people are intelligent enough to come up with their own wims n desires too... so who puts an end to all the confusion and opinions? Isn't it that the creator of the universe has the most right to be listened and obeyed to? Considering he knows his creation more than anything or anyoen else?


^ ill reply 2dat when i get bak

no offense intended btw... jsut thought there where some fundamental problems to be adressed with ur belief....

and let me say something, as Muslims... we don't believe, we KNOW.. it's more than just belief and resigning to the statement 'ah well, we believe this, u believe that.... no point arguin.. we'll leave it at that'....

Considering the degree of accuracy of our prophets predictions and advises (which caem thru revelation)... really.. it's beyond doubt that Islam is the true path to success in Allah's eyes.

and once again.. we're not playing god as some ppl like to accsue us.. we're jsut quoting straight out of his books

take care wish u all the best!

i've read your post and while i do not share your belief, i have no desire to argue about these things because i don't think i'm right and you're wrong or that my beliefs are superior to yours.

 

[lolwatever]

i've read your post and while i do not share your belief, i have no desire to argue about these things because i don't think i'm right and you're wrong or that my beliefs are superior to yours.

Well i put the proposition that God doesn't just accept believing in his existance... coz most ppl do (really whether u call urself agnostic or christian or jew or watever is irrelevent)...

n he didnt create us just to admit he exists, live like animals n just die n endup in a state of non-existance. There is a purpose to life....... To seek the truth n follow it n obey the creator, not just sit on the sidelines n think 'blah i'll just make up my own rules n live alogn accordingly....' --> das the casue for majority of the world's disasters (aids, economies gettin screwed , death, crime, suicide, rape.. u name it) :uuh:

Which brings up the question...... can one really lead a moral life without a proper religion :rollseyes (here we define religion as "defined way of life" which is the literal meaning of deen, Islam). Whilst pedophelia is immoral to you.. it seems perfectly moral to others (the loser who was locked up in finland i think last week for example), whilst takin ppls money thru interst is immoral to some... it's perfectly moral to many... so really... god decided to make everything in the universe follow pre-defined rules/laws except society :? ffended:

Surely you have reasons for not 'sharing my beliefs' as u put it...... or u just prefer to turn off ur thinkin cap :?

 

[- Qatada -]

i believe it is possible to lead a moral life without religion - i realize this won't make any sense to you either. i am not saying this is true - it is just my belief.

I don't mean this in an offensive way, but what defines moral? Is it culture, or your personal beliefs? The reason why i find this confusing is because different cultures have different morals, so something in india may be liked, yet detested within the US.

This is the reason why islaam has specific prohibitions, yet other things are permissible. This way, no matter what the culture - we all have certain limit's which we can't transgress against, then other things such as culture may take part (as long as the action isn't haraam/forbidden obviously.)



Look forward to your response.



Peace.

 

[snakelegs]

lolwatever and Fi_Sabilillah,
this thread has already gone off topic. i stuck my nose in here because i wanted a better understanding of hell in islam, which i think i got. and i did not mean to de-rail the the basic subject of this thread.
i don't think a religious person would understand the idea of leading a moral life without belonging to a religion. i would say that broadly speaking, i strive to be a decent human being and that you, (as well as people of other religions), and i probably share many of the basic moral code. my belief is that we are born with an innate sense of right and wrong and then as we grow and learn, we refine it by combining knowledge and common sense. i also have limits that i would not cross, no matter what culture i found myself in, just as you wouldn't.
some turn to religion for this guidance and there is nothing wrong with that.
it is just that i was not raised in a religion and have never felt a need for one.
i believe in one god, just as you do, and follow many of the same moral guidelines that you do, even tho i don't believe in heaven and hell. (i think this is almost incomprehensible to people who hold these beliefs).
i hope i have answered your questions. i am neither advocating these beliefs or arguing with yours.
so now, why don't we all have some love and hell in christianity? ;D

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you snakelegs;

i don't think a religious person would understand the idea of leading a moral life without belonging to a religion.

Just a short extract from James 1 talking about religion.

26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. 27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world

In the spirit of seeking justice for the poor

Eric

 

[- Qatada -]

Hi snakelegs.


I just want to point out that the majority of mankind believe that there is only one Creator, which obviously can only be Allaah - God. The difference is that a person has to worship Him Alone, before putting anything else before that i.e. their desires etc.

So according to islaam, believing in one Creator isn't sufficient, but worshipping Him Alone is the real part of faith. This is why islam is different to all other faiths, we worship the Creator - Allaah, not the creation.



Allaah Almighty knows best.



Peace & Eid Mubarak.

 

[lolwatever]

lolwatever and Fi_Sabilillah,
this thread has already gone off topic. i stuck my nose in here because i wanted a better understanding of hell in islam, which i think i got. and i did not mean to de-rail the the basic subject of this thread.

oops so tru :X

i don't think a religious person would understand the idea of leading a moral life without belonging to a religion. i would say that broadly speaking, i strive to be a decent human being and that you, (as well as people of other religions), and i probably share many of the basic moral code. my belief is that we are born with an innate sense of right and wrong and then as we grow and learn, we refine it by combining knowledge and common sense. i also have limits that i would not cross, no matter what culture i found myself in, just as you wouldn't.

Sounds like an idea for an interestin thread .... i'm gonna be on leave for a few weeks, how about we start a discussion about it some time then, or even now... but there'll be 2zillion posts by the time i come bak

some turn to religion for this guidance and there is nothing wrong with that.
it is just that i was not raised in a religion and have never felt a need for one.
i believe in one god, just as you do, and follow many of the same moral guidelines that you do, even tho i don't believe in heaven and hell. (i think this is almost incomprehensible to people who hold these beliefs).

just to point sumfn out, maybe i was misunderstood... morality was only a fraction of the reason, the bigger picture is that... wats the point of life? did god create us just to live n die without ne goal? It's not about whether u can lead a polite lifestyle or not, (im sure u can), but its about whether you obey God's rules.... alot of non Muslims are very well behaved n stuff... but that doesnt change nething, it just means that their relationship with ppl is really good, but their relationship with god... stinks.. coz they're jsut ignoring him n his commandments.

i hope i have answered your questions. i am neither advocating these beliefs or arguing with yours.
so now, why don't we all have some love and hell in christianity? ;D

yepp... sorry cheese 4 hijackin this thread :hiding:

ill startup another thread when im bak inshalah..... b gr8 if u could all join in - i just hope it doesnt go off topic -

 

[snakelegs]

Sounds like an idea for an interestin thread .... i'm gonna be on leave for a few weeks, how about we start a discussion about it some time then, or even now... but there'll be 2zillion posts by the time i come bak

with all due respect, i don't really see a whole lot of point in discussing these things at length. who cares what the anonymous entity called "snakelegs" believes? they are just my personal beliefs - nothing more.
i have no desire to defend them or to critiize any one else's.
enjoy your "on leave" time! i could use some of that myself.

 

[Tania]

with all due respect, i don't really see a whole lot of point in discussing these things at length. who cares what the anonymous entity called "snakelegs" believes? they are just my personal beliefs - nothing more.
i have no desire to defend them or to critiize any one else's.
enjoy your "on leave" time! i could use some of that myself.

I understand how are you thinking
The communist did the same thing when they tried to make moral people in the absence of religion.
Even myself i grew up without religious knowledge ( no religious lessons during the school, i got only few lessons before my first ) and i can say i have moral values. :-[ Now i try to learn about my religion