to the non-muslims on here...

[- Qatada -]

That's the reason why most muslims don't accept what they see on the news.

O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful.​

​

(Qur'an 49:6)​

Peace.

 

[duskiness]

how would you react if your country was invaded? would you fight back? would you support the resistance either verbally, with money and financial help or perhaps even physically join them in their effort?

my country was being invaded few times every century.. and we fought back (not always with success...quite the opposite) and we are proud of it

would such people as terrorists if that happened or someone fighting for the freedom of your people to live their own way of life?

if they would kill civilians then yes- they would be terrorists.

now what if such an invasion force began destroying your schools, closing them down or forcing them to teach a curicullum that promoted their way of life and denegrated your's,.

in Poland that happened since 1875 until 1918, then during 2WW, and then during communist regime, which ended in 1989.

how would you feel about such occupation schools?
would you think of them as a building and institution worthy of support or destruction?

you know, what we have been doing here? We were making underground classes, libraries and so on. We didn't destroy them. Destruction is not a solution.
In the end, they thought something .....although not only "truth"

ask yourself if such invasions occured on and off for a period of hundreds of years, with parts of your land being taken and handed to other nations to run despite the wishes of the people living there.
how would you feel then if you had such a history?

That's also normal here. Take any historical atlas and try to find Polish borders (watch out! they change almost every season ). After 1945 we have lost almost 1/3 of our land. Huge parts of todays Lithuania, Belorussia, Ukraine belonged to Poland before '45. Then my grandparents were put to cattle carts and send west. They have lost homes and land And what? Do we fight for it? Do we ask Lithuanians to leave their homes, so we could go back? No. We try to live together. It's their home now, and our memory.
(silly trivia: the most famous polish poem starts with: "O! Lithuania - my home", and most popular folk song is about love to Ukraine)

now imagine that one of these lands that was taken from the whole 50 or 100 or 200 years ago rebels against such oppression and fights to rejoin the lands together again? are such people terrorists or is their cause just?

definition of terrorism: Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or persons for political, nationalist, or religious goals.(wiki)
No matter what is the aim of terrorists, terror is terror. Aim doesn't justify means.

imagine that your country had been invaded and a puppet ruler placed in charge, perhaps like the vichy regime in france during WWII? how would you view such a government? such a ruler?
would you see the ruler as good or a puppet no matter how good or bad his policies were?
would you view those who fought for such a government or worked them as just doing a job or as traitors?

44 years of communism counts?

imagine of this happening to your land, how would you feel?
perhaps at the end of this you will understand how we as muslims feel, one of the greatest ways of solving conflicts is looking to see things from the 'other' point of view.

Maybe in the end you will stop thinking of Muslims as only victims in this world? Many nations went through same things!
Maybe you will see that what non-Muslims say here doesn't necessary come from ignorance?

 

[stannis]

If my country were invaded, I would resist the invasion in any way I reasonably can... but I wouldn't kill my fellow civilians in suicide blasts in order to defend my country, which is what some Iraqi insurgents are doing.

 

[north_malaysian]

If my country were invaded, I would resist the invasion in any way I reasonably can... but I wouldn't kill my fellow civilians in suicide blasts in order to defend my country, which is what some Iraqi insurgents are doing.

I gave you some reps for this...

 

[GARY]

That's the reason why most muslims don't accept what they see on the news.

At least we can agree that the propaganda comes from both sides.

 

[stannis]

I gave you some reps for this...

Thanks

 

[Mr. Baldy]

A terrorist is a terrorist. If you load a car full of explosives and detonate it at a wedding party or a funeral, you are not fighting the evil Americans, you are killing Muslims. Does this chaos make it more difficult for the Iraqi government, who the Iraqi people put in place?, obviously. The whole diatribe in the above post is based on a false premise. I know many Muslims, usually adolescent males living in Western countries, like to believe in some noble grand gathering of god-fearing Muslims fighting to resist the evil colonial West. It is a myth, and not even a good one.

hmm, what about the NATO killing muslims (ALLEGED terrorists) in a madrassa? what about american and NATO troops attacking afghan villages where the taliban dont even hide or fight from, what about the killing of innocent civillians indiscriminantly by US/UK troops in iraq and by israeli trigger happy troops in palestine, and what about the numerous weddings and FUNERALS the US have 'accidentaly' attacked?

if you look back to the start of the war, the muslims in iraq were united, until the US decided that the united muslims against it was not a good thing, so they started these bombings in the hopes that shia and sunni secterian violence be created. this tactic worked. and if you actually analyxe these bombing you will find that there mostly iraqi secterian muslims, rather than Al-Qaeda, or foriegn muslims coming into fight against the US.

and yet you say that muslims are terrorists

 

[Keltoi]

hmm, what about the NATO killing muslims (ALLEGED terrorists) in a madrassa? what about american and NATO troops attacking afghan villages where the taliban dont even hide or fight from, what about the killing of innocent civillians indiscriminantly by US/UK troops in iraq and by israeli trigger happy troops in palestine, and what about the numerous weddings and FUNERALS the US have 'accidentaly' attacked?

if you look back to the start of the war, the muslims in iraq were united, until the US decided that the united muslims against it was not a good thing, so they started these bombings in the hopes that shia and sunni secterian violence be created. this tactic worked. and if you actually analyxe these bombing you will find that there mostly iraqi secterian muslims, rather than Al-Qaeda, or foriegn muslims coming into fight against the US.

and yet you say that muslims are terrorists

Wow, who could have thunk it. The U.S. "feared" united Muslims in Iraq, as the Muslims in Iraq are so obviously "united". Fearing this behemoth of unity in Iraq, the U.S. military decided to bomb mosques, funerals, and weddings, capture and mutilate entire families, behead Iraqi politicians, etc so as to create strife in this behemoth of Iraqi unity. Since Iraqis are so obviously stupid, since they believe it is Sunnis attacking Shi'ite and vice versa, this widespread CIA/NSA black ops project remains a mystery. Incredibly, you have seen through the smokescreen of lies, but the poor dumb Iraqis still believe it is Sunni and Sh'ite killing each other. This way the U.S. can stand around at checkpoints for another ten years and drain more money from the U.S. Treasury.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it begged for it.

 

[i_m_tipu]

Wow, who could have thunk it. The U.S. "feared" united Muslims in Iraq, as the Muslims in Iraq are so obviously "united". Fearing this behemoth of unity in Iraq, the U.S. military decided to bomb mosques, funerals, and weddings, capture and mutilate entire families, behead Iraqi politicians, etc so as to create strife in this behemoth of Iraqi unity. Since Iraqis are so obviously stupid, since they believe it is Sunnis attacking Shi'ite and vice versa, this widespread CIA/NSA black ops project remains a mystery. Incredibly, you have seen through the smokescreen of lies, but the poor dumb Iraqis still believe it is Sunni and Sh'ite killing each other. This way the U.S. can stand around at checkpoints for another ten years and drain more money from the U.S. Treasury.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it begged for it.

it seems to u me interesting.
it is easy to say but on the ground i believe Iraq is full of hopelessness with a full of horror memory.

a mirror never look the same when u join it after broke it. it does not matter how hard u try. it will never be the same.

iraq is totally broken...

anyway at the end of the day u will find (if u really study) israeli and usa is responsible for all massacre. bcoz all happening for their amazing game plan.

read this game plan history

1999 War Games Foresaw Problems in Iraq

Sunday November 5, 2006 7:46 AM


AP Photo BAG102

By JOHN HEILPRIN

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. government conducted a series of secret war games in 1999 that anticipated an invasion of Iraq would require 400,000 troops, and even then chaos might ensue.

In its ``Desert Crossing'' games, 70 military, diplomatic and intelligence officials assumed the high troop levels would be needed to keep order, seal borders and take care of other security needs.

The documents came to light Saturday through a Freedom of Information Act request by the George Washington University's National Security Archive, an independent research institute and library.

``The conventional wisdom is the U.S. mistake in Iraq was not enough troops,'' said Thomas Blanton, the archive's director. ``But the Desert Crossing war game in 1999 suggests we would have ended up with a failed state even with 400,000 troops on the ground.''

There are currently about 144,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, down from a peak of about 160,000 in January.

A spokeswoman for U.S. Central Command, which sponsored the seminar and declassified the secret report in 2004, declined to comment Saturday because she was not familiar with the documents.

The war games looked at ``worst case'' and ``most likely'' scenarios after a war that removed then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power. Some are similar to what actually occurred after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003:

-``A change in regimes does not guarantee stability,'' the 1999 seminar briefings said. ``A number of factors including aggressive neighbors, fragmentation along religious and/or ethnic lines, and chaos created by rival forces bidding for power could adversely affect regional stability.''

-``Even when civil order is restored and borders are secured, the replacement regime could be problematic - especially if perceived as weak, a puppet, or out-of-step with prevailing regional governments.''

-``Iran's anti-Americanism could be enflamed by a U.S.-led intervention in Iraq,'' the briefings read. ``The influx of U.S. and other western forces into Iraq would exacerbate worries in Tehran, as would the installation of a pro-western government in Baghdad.''

-``The debate on post-Saddam Iraq also reveals the paucity of information about the potential and capabilities of the external Iraqi opposition groups. The lack of intelligence concerning their roles hampers U.S. policy development.''

-``Also, some participants believe that no Arab government will welcome the kind of lengthy U.S. presence that would be required to install and sustain a democratic government.''

-``A long-term, large-scale military intervention may be at odds with many coalition partners.''
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6192951,00.html

i believe israelis doing all the thing they can to destroy Islam. they using usa and media and together they funding a huge among of money to the munafig and forcing their poor slaves (allies) to get approval for all game they planed.

they called as a king of humanity and justice and we called terrorist.:giggling:
and lot of people dying to defend it.

 

[Mr. Baldy]

Wow, who could have thunk it. The U.S. "feared" united Muslims in Iraq, as the Muslims in Iraq are so obviously "united". Fearing this behemoth of unity in Iraq, the U.S. military decided to bomb mosques, funerals, and weddings, capture and mutilate entire families, behead Iraqi politicians, etc so as to create strife in this behemoth of Iraqi unity. Since Iraqis are so obviously stupid, since they believe it is Sunnis attacking Shi'ite and vice versa, this widespread CIA/NSA black ops project remains a mystery. Incredibly, you have seen through the smokescreen of lies, but the poor dumb Iraqis still believe it is Sunni and Sh'ite killing each other. This way the U.S. can stand around at checkpoints for another ten years and drain more money from the U.S. Treasury.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but it begged for it.

well, actually they do fear united muslims in iraq... becaue if the iraqi muslims were united it would be much harder for the US and friends to fight them, wouldnt it dum dum? so what do the US do? spark hatred between Shi'ite and Sunni muslims and there away, plus this gives them an excuse to stay there longer, 'destabilising' the region, and actually most iraqis do realise this and very few attacks are secterian, but there the attacks that are hyped by the media. its exactly the same as GB and 1924...

 

[MTAFFI]

well, actually they do fear united muslims in iraq... becaue if the iraqi muslims were united it would be much harder for the US and friends to fight them, wouldnt it dum dum? so what do the US do? spark hatred between Shi'ite and Sunni muslims and there away, plus this gives them an excuse to stay there longer, 'destabilising' the region, and actually most iraqis do realise this and very few attacks are secterian, but there the attacks that are hyped by the media. its exactly the same as GB and 1924...

or maybe if the muslims and everyone else in Iraq would unite then the US wouldnt need to be there and they would leave. Think about it, if there wasnt these people killing innocent people with roadside bombs, suicide bombs, etc the US would have no need to be there and would have nothing else to do but leave. Believe me my friend America does not want its troops in Iraq anymore than anyone else, it is just that an entire government was just toppled and without an army or police force it would be total anarchy and then the US would be blamed for that. Ultimately it is a lose, lose for the US. The best thing that could happen is for these people to unite, say we dont need the US anymore and please leave, and establish peace amongst each other. I pray to God every day for this to happen.

 

[GARY]

hmm, what about the NATO killing muslims (ALLEGED terrorists) in a madrassa? what about american and NATO troops attacking afghan villages where the taliban dont even hide or fight from, what about the killing of innocent civillians indiscriminantly by US/UK troops in iraq and by israeli trigger happy troops in palestine, and what about the numerous weddings and FUNERALS the US have 'accidentaly' attacked?

if you look back to the start of the war, the muslims in iraq were united, until the US decided that the united muslims against it was not a good thing, so they started these bombings in the hopes that shia and sunni secterian violence be created. this tactic worked. and if you actually analyxe these bombing you will find that there mostly iraqi secterian muslims, rather than Al-Qaeda, or foriegn muslims coming into fight against the US.

and yet you say that muslims are terrorists

LOL! HA! HA!

 

[i_m_tipu]

well, actually they do fear united muslims in iraq... becaue if the iraqi muslims were united it would be much harder for the US and friends to fight them, wouldnt it dum dum? so what do the US do? spark hatred between Shi'ite and Sunni muslims and there away, plus this gives them an excuse to stay there longer, 'destabilising' the region, and actually most iraqis do realise this and very few attacks are secterian, but there the attacks that are hyped by the media. its exactly the same as GB and 1924...

definitely...usa or anyone fear united enemy. why other people have a problem to accept it.

these sectarian violence only benefiting USA. i really don't know who is behind this. but it benefiting the USA most. it help them a lot to eliminate, capture and control the resistance groups more easier way.

This resistance groups are definitely freedom fighter.
they involved to free their religions and themselves from the dajjal and kafir.

may Allaah help their good tries and guide them for not to do dubious things and thinkings.

 

[starfortress]

or maybe if the muslims and everyone else in Iraq would unite then the US wouldnt need to be there and they would leave.

Do you think so..wheter they choose to withdraw the force or remain staying in Iraq,every decision are all wrong for them in this current situation.For sure it will decrese the US credibility in the eyes of the world.

the US would have no need to be there and would have nothing else to do but leave.

It should be more relevance 5-6 years ago.Its too hard to stayed,and too shame to retreat.They have to pick one,and none of both is easy.

Believe me my friend America does not want its troops in Iraq anymore than anyone else.

The other countries already knew the consequent,that should explain why US is alone in Operation Iraqi Freedom....

then the US would be blamed for that.

This is not a blame game.Its about how the U.S. is perceived in the world and particularly in predominantly Muslim countries,with the arrogant Mr Bush administration,world hegemony policy,justice in the name of human right,Unbalance policy in mideast,illusion war(Iraq/Afghanistan/Terrorist) all this thing didnt make this world become a safer place.

I pray to God every day for this to happen.

 

[Mr. Baldy]

or maybe if the muslims and everyone else in Iraq would unite then the US wouldnt need to be there and they would leave. Think about it, if there wasnt these people killing innocent people with roadside bombs, suicide bombs, etc the US would have no need to be there and would have nothing else to do but leave. Believe me my friend America does not want its troops in Iraq anymore than anyone else, it is just that an entire government was just toppled and without an army or police force it would be total anarchy and then the US would be blamed for that. Ultimately it is a lose, lose for the US. The best thing that could happen is for these people to unite, say we dont need the US anymore and please leave, and establish peace amongst each other. I pray to God every day for this to happen.

so why is it that the west doesnt want muslims to determine there own political destiniy?

 

[GARY]

so why is it that the west doesnt want muslims to determine there own political destiniy?

I don't know if it is a question of muslim political destiny so much as a question of Iraqi political destiny.
To answer your question in regards to Iraq, it is exactly as was stated by MTAFFI. At this point, the political destiny of Iraq will only be determined through severe violence and civil war, if they are left to their own devices. Not to say that the current "solution" is much better, but the fear is that it would get much worse. I don't say that this is the U.S. government concern, but the concern of people of the 'west' as was asked in your question.

 

[MTAFFI]

so why is it that the west doesnt want muslims to determine there own political destiniy?

who says that we dont, regardless of the conspiracy theory (that i would bet you believe) the Iraqi people voted for their current government, and once something is established they can vote again and again. That is the wonderful thing about not being under a dictatorship. If they dont like the government then they can vote and get a new one. What does this have to do with a united muslim community though?

 

[T@z@belle]

A terrorist is a terrorist. If you load a car full of explosives and detonate it at a wedding party or a funeral, you are not fighting the evil Americans, you are killing Muslims. Does this chaos make it more difficult for the Iraqi government, who the Iraqi people put in place?, obviously. The whole diatribe in the above post is based on a false premise. I know many Muslims, usually adolescent males living in Western countries, like to believe in some noble grand gathering of god-fearing Muslims fighting to resist the evil colonial West. It is a myth, and not even a good one.

hey....i wonder if YOU were ever killed,abused and humiliated in your OWN home country and then told you were an evil terrorist.....OH THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED TO YOU YET....hmmm i rest my case.

 

[SilentObserver]

hey....i wonder if YOU were ever killed,abused and humiliated in your OWN home country and then told you were an evil terrorist.....OH THAT HAS NOT HAPPENED TO YOU YET....hmmm i rest my case.

I imagine if keltoi was told he was a terrorist after being killed, he really wouldn't mind much.

As for the statement, it makes little sense to fight the enemy by mass murdering civilians with a car bomb.

 

[sudais1]

Listen The Diffrence between Iraq and Holland is there. Iraq is not developed let alone have an army, they nver had good governace and the Invaders didnt make anything change, The Iraqi "terrorists" only fight Invaders and Iraqi supporters of the Invaders.


Not only is Holland more powerful but they have better they have good allies, like France, Italy, Iraq have almost no allies which can even fight poland. Now Imagine a superpower (america), along with Canada, Britain, Holland, Australia, all send troops to Iraq to fight. This was going on for 5 years,


Now i will try to rephrase they Question the Dawud_UK Asked

IF YOU were an Iraqi and you have close to no supplies to fight these nations and all you have is motors and rocks how you you react and fight :?