Why celebrate christmas?

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So it mixed of Catholic-Protestant-Orthodox kind of church?:?
No.
It isn't affiliated to any denomination.
Rather it tries to go back to the Bible itself, to Jesus' teachings and to the early churches.

That does not mean that other denominations don't do the same, but some have accumulated other traditions and rituals along the way, which are not founded directly on the Bible.

I hope this makes sense.

Peace
 
Re: Questions Re: Christmas

do christians mind when we say or write "xmas"? is it insulting/offensive?

Not in the UK, anyway. As north_malaysian said, it's just an abbreviation. I guess some devout Christians might find it irritating, but not really offensive or insulting.

how old is the custom of giving presents?

Just googled that up;

One of the earliest known customs of giving presents around the time of the winter solstice was during the Roman festival of the Kalends, which occurred on the first day of January. Such gifts were known as strenae.

High ranking officials of the Roman Administration were expected to present gifts to their Emperor during the Kalends. In fact, Caligula went to the extent of declaring an edict which obliged them to do so. He would stand impatiently at the front door of his palace waiting for them to arrive.

Originally, these gifts had taken the form of branches of evergreen taken from the grove of the goddess Strenia; but Caligula was not very keen on olive branches. So, the Roman dignitaries began to give gifts of honey and cakes as symbols of their wish that the new year might be full of sweetness, and gold that it might bring prosperity. That made Caligula much happier, as he was very keen on prosperity, especially his own.

The words 'Kriss Kringle' mean Christ-child and is the basis of a medieval legend, that the infant Jesus himself gave presents. This helped to establish Christmas Day as an occasion for Christians to give gifts. In those days presents were very modest and included such things as cakes, fruit, nuts, dolls and items of clothing.


also, is there any connection between the magi of the nativity story and the magians (zoroastrians)?
thanks

Yup. It seems likely that the Magi (Median priests) adopted Zoroastrianism, having originally opposed it, several hundred years prior to the birth of Jesus. That may well have still been combined with, or at least influenced by, their earlier beliefs. How much truth there is in the nativity story, and who was actually involved, are, of course, different questions.
 


I did. It's just urban myth time, I'm afraid. The facts are here.

Santa
Claus is perhaps the most remarkable of all the figures associated with Christmas. To us, Santa has always been an essential part of the Christmas celebration, but the modern image of Santa didn't develop until well into the 19th century. Moreover, he didn't spring to life fully-formed as a literary creation or a commercial invention (as did his famous reindeer, Rudolph). Santa Claus was an evolutionary creation, brought about by the fusion of two religious personages (St. Nicholas and Christkindlein, the Christ child) to become a fixed image which is now the paramount symbol of the secular Christmas celebration.

In 1804, the New York Historical Society was founded with Nicholas as its patron saint, its members reviving the Dutch tradition of St. Nicholas as a gift-bringer. In 1809, Washington Irving published his satirical A History of New York, by one "Diedrich Knickerbocker," a work that poked fun at New York's Dutch past (St. Nicholas included). When Irving became a member of the Society the following year, the annual St. Nicholas Day dinner festivities included a woodcut of the traditional Nicholas figure (tall, with long robes) accompanied by a Dutch rhyme about "Sancte Claus" (in Dutch, "Sinterklaas"). Irving revised his History of New York in 1812, adding details about Nicholas' "riding over the tops of the trees, in that selfsame waggon wherein he brings his yearly presents to children." In 1821, a New York printer named William Gilley issued a poem about a "Santeclaus" who dressed all in fur and drove a sleigh pulled by one reindeer. Gilley's "Sante," however, was very short.

On Christmas Eve of 1822, another New Yorker, Clement Clarke Moore, wrote down and read to his children a series of verses; his poem was published a year later as "An Account of a Visit from St. Nicholas" (more commonly known today by its opening line, "'Twas the night before Christmas . . ."). Moore gave St. Nick eight reindeer (and named them all), and he devised the now-familiar entrance by chimney. Moore's Nicholas was still a small figure, however — the poem describes a "miniature sleigh" with a "little old driver."

Meanwhile, in parts of Europe such as Germany, Nicholas the gift-giver had been superseded by a representation of the infant Jesus (the Christ child, or "Christkindlein"). The Christkindlein accompanied Nicholas-like figures with other names (such as "Père Noël" in France), or he travelled with a dwarf-like helper (known in some places as "Pelznickel," or Nicholas with furs). Belsnickle (as Pelznickel was known in the German-American dialect of Pennsylvania) was represented by adults who dressed in furry disguises (including false whiskers), visited while children were still awake, and put on a scary performance. Gifts found by children the next morning were credited to Christkindlein, who had come while everyone was asleep. Over time, the non-visible Christkindlein (whose name mutated into "Kriss Kringle") was overshadowed by the visible Belsnickle, and both of them became confused with St. Nicholas and the emerging figure of Santa Claus.

The modern Santa Claus derived from these two images: St. Nicholas the elf-like gift bringer described by Moore, and a friendlier "Kriss Kringle" amalgam of the Christkindlein and Pelznickel figures. The man-sized version of Santa became the dominant image around 1841, when a Philadelphia merchant named J.W. Parkinson hired a man to dress in "Criscringle" clothing and climb the chimney outside his shop.

In 1863, a caricaturist for Harper's Weekly named Thomas Nast began developing his own image of Santa. Nast gave his figure a "flowing set of whiskers" and dressed him "all in fur, from his head to his foot." Nast's 1866 montage entitled "Santa Claus and His Works" established Santa as a maker of toys; an 1869 book of the same name collected new Nast drawings with a poem by George P. Webster that identified the North Pole as Santa's home. Although Nast never settled on one size for his Santa figures (they ranged from elf-like to man-sized), his 1881 "Merry Old Santa Claus" drawing is quite close to the modern-day image.

The Santa Claus figure, although not yet standardized, was ubiquitous by the late 19th century. Santa was portrayed as both large and small; he was usually round but sometimes of normal or slight build; and he dressed in furs (like Belsnickle) or cloth suits of red, blue, green, or purple. A Boston printer named Louis Prang introduced the English custom of Christmas cards to America, and in 1885 he issued a card featuring a red-suited Santa. The chubby Santa with a red suit (like an "overweight superhero") began to replace the fur-dressed Belsnickle image and the multicolored Santas.

At the beginning of the 1930s, the burgeoning Coca-Cola company was still looking for ways to increase sales of their product during winter, then a slow time of year for the soft drink market. They turned to a talented commercial illustrator named Haddon Sundblom, who created a series of memorable drawings that associated the figure of a larger than life, red-and-white garbed Santa Claus with Coca-Cola. Coke's annual advertisements — featuring Sundblom-drawn Santas holding bottles of Coca-Cola, drinking Coca-Cola, receiving Coca-Cola as gifts, and especially enjoying Coca-Cola — became a perennial Christmastime feature which helped spur Coca-Cola sales throughout the winter (and produced the bonus effect of appealing quite strongly to children, an important segment of the soft drink market). The success of this advertising campaign has helped fuel the legend that Coca-Cola actually invented the image of the modern Santa Claus, decking him out in a red-and-white suit to promote the company colors — or that at the very least, Coca-Cola chose to promote the red-and-white version of Santa Claus over a variety of competing Santa figures in order to establish it as the accepted image of Santa Claus.

This legend is not true. Although some versions of the Santa Claus figure still had him attired in various colors of outfits past the beginning of the 20th century, the jolly, ruddy, sack-carrying Santa with a red suit and flowing white whiskers had become the standard image of Santa Claus by the 1920s, several years before Sundlom drew his first Santa illustration for Coca-Cola. As The New York Times reported on 27 November 1927:

A standardized Santa Claus appears to New York children. Height, weight, stature are almost exactly standardized, as are the red garments, the hood and the white whiskers. The pack full of toys, ruddy cheeks and nose, bushy eyebrows and a jolly, paunchy effect are also inevitable parts of the requisite make-up.
It's simply mind-boggling that at the beginning the 21st century, historians are still egregiously perpetuating inaccurate information like the following:

So complete was the colonization of Christmas that Coke's Santa had elbowed aside all comers by the 1940s. He was the Santa of the 1947 movie Miracle on 34th Street just as he is the Santa of the recent film The Santa Clause. He is the Santa on Hallmark cards, he is the Santa riding the Norelco shaver each Christmas season, he is the department-store Santa, and he is even the Salvation Army Santa!1
As we just pointed out above, the modern Santa had "elbowed aside all comers" long before the 1940s, and well before Coca-Cola co-opted him as their wintertime advertising symbol. And we're at a loss to understand how anyone could have recognized the Santa of Miracle on 34th Street, a BLACK-AND-WHITE film, as the red-and-white Coca-Cola Santa.

All this isn't to say that Coca-Cola didn't have anything to do with cementing that image of Santa Claus in the public consciousness. The Santa image may have been standardized before Coca-Cola adopted it for their advertisements, but Coca-Cola had a great deal to do with establishing Santa Claus as a ubiquitous Christmas figure in America at a time when the holiday was still making the transition from a religious observance to a largely secular and highly commercial celebration. In an era before color television (or commercial television of any kind), color films, and the widespread use of color in newspapers, it was Coca-Cola's magazine advertisements, billboards, and point-of-sale store displays that exposed nearly everyone in America to the modern Santa Claus image. Coca-Cola certainly helped make Santa Claus one of the most popular men in America, but they didn't invent him.
 
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For me Christmas will remain the day in which Jesus was borned and also will be the family day.In this day, at dinner you can see the whole members of the family. Before dinner we sing songs celebrating the Christmas and very discretly watching the tree and the gifts. Sometimes my mind goes off and i try to figure out what can be there. Also, its a great time to listen the non-musical voices of your family:giggling:

Only after dinner we are going for the midnight sermon where, without Happy birthday, will celebrate Jesus birth.

In 7th january we are celebrating Jesus baptism. Is the day when the priest is coming at home to make "saint" the house.:? I don't know the english expression :-[

Also, the russians are celebrating with one week later the Christmas or two, i can't remember exactly .
 
I did. It's just urban myth time, I'm afraid. The facts are here.

myths? nope santa claus was 1st originally some kind green enviromentlist or sumat, coca cola changed it to advertise was hit lol
 
myths? nope santa claus was 1st originally some kind green enviromentlist or sumat, coca cola changed it to advertise was hit lol

Read the article I posted.. or if that's too much just the bit I highlighted.
 
Read the article I posted.. or if that's too much just the bit I highlighted.

Thats just one article, its like the da vinci code
Secrets need to be hidden for sake of religion etc... :)
 
Re: Questions Re: Christmas

do christians mind when we say or write "xmas"? is it insulting/offensive?
I know of some Christians who frown upon the use of 'Xmas'. Some see it as an attempt to 'take Christ out of Christmas', and to secularise the festival.

This is what I found on the web (for the sake of time, I am copying and pasting it):
The term "Xmas" instead of "Christmas" is Greek in origin. The word for "Christ" in Greek is "Xristos." during the Sixteenth Century, Europeans began using the first initial of Christ's name...the "X" of "Xristos"...in place of the word "Christ" as a shorthand version of the word "Christmas." Although early Christians understood that the "X" was simply another form for the name of Jesus Christ, later Christians, who had no knowledge of the Greek language, mistook "Xmas" as a sign of disrespect. Eventually, however, "Xmas" came to be both an accepted and suitable alternative to the word "Christmas."

So Christians have no reason, really, to feel offended by 'xmas'. It is an abbreviation (invented by Christians!), no more, no less.

More info on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmas
 
Re: Questions Re: Christmas

I used to always ask Christians, "What will you be celebrating on the 25th Christmas or Xmas"


Argh I reallly disliked xmas.
 
Thats just one article, its like the da vinci code
Secrets need to be hidden for sake of religion etc... :)

What does Santa Clause have to do with celebrating Christ's birth? Why would the roots of Santa threaten the point of Christmas? I'm afraid that doesn't make sense.
 
did you know santa claus wore green clothing then coca cola changed it to red? big company can change the entire face of the earth.

I think this inaccurate. Santa Clause comes from the Dutch tradition of Sinterklaas, who is supposed to represent the Bishop of Myra, Saint Nicholas, in the 4th century.

[pictures removed]

So I find it unlikely his suit was ever green.
 
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I think this inaccurate. Santa Clause comes from the Dutch tradition of Sinterklaas, who is supposed to represent the Bishop of Myra, Saint Nicholas, in the 4th century.
I always thought the angels are in charge to bring the tree and gifts in the Christmas night. Santa Clause i thought its an american tradition.
 
yeh but majority of christians celebrate christmas for presents, non go to church or anything, Its like theirs good and bad muslims out their but atleast bad muslims go to mosque every friday once a week, christians friends i got admit that they never go to church and celebrate christmas for presents. Is christmas worth celebrating? might aswell celebrate eid aswell, Good Christians who go to church deserve to celebrate and what more christians only go church when their born, getting married and when someone died.

Christmas is a good thing it's like eid

You know, in many ways I agree with your critique of Christmas. I think it has become infected with overblown commercialism. But that isn't Christmas' fault or even Christianity's fault, any more than some of the commercialism and gluttony that occurs around the Eid should be seen as reflective of Islam. Of course, Christian and Muslim adherents would make a better witness if they would attend to the spiritual aspects of their respective holy days rather than the cultural trappings that have become associated with them. I know that I for one could sure do with a little less Santa-mas and a little more Christ-mas. But I am not in control of what others do, I try to keep things a little more sane and muted in my own life, with my family, and at my church. But as for Coca-Cola and the rest of the business world, well, just remember they are running a business, not the Church. Their Santa-mas form of the holiday has about as much to do with real meaning of Christmas as a piece of baklavah has to do with the Eid -- but, of course, I do make baklavah every year just the same.
 
I always thought the angels are in charge to bring the tree and gifts in the Christmas night. Santa Clause i thought its an american tradition.

For me Christmas will remain the day in which Jesus was borned and also will be the family day.In this day, at dinner you can see the whole members of the family. Before dinner we sing songs celebrating the Christmas and very discretly watching the tree and the gifts. Sometimes my mind goes off and i try to figure out what can be there. Also, its a great time to listen the non-musical voices of your family:giggling:

Only after dinner we are going for the midnight sermon where, without Happy birthday, will celebrate Jesus birth.

In 7th january we are celebrating Jesus baptism. Is the day when the priest is coming at home to make "saint" the house.:? I don't know the english expression :-[

Also, the russians are celebrating with one week later the Christmas or two, i can't remember exactly .


There are so many different traditions and myths associated with all the different aspects of this mega-holiday. You will find different stories in different countries, but as people move around our globe they become interwined with each other and new ones are created. As someone will no doubt note (if not already done in another thread) we don't know exactly when Jesus was born, and over the centuries different days have been popularized as "the" day to celebrate it. Of course, the choice of day isn't important, but we humans do seem to like to be able to mark a particular day on our calendars. I don't suppose that one day is any better or worse than another.

One of the stories associated with the dating of Christmas is that the Roman Catholic Church simply chose to take over a pagan festival associated with the winter solistice. That wouldn't surprise me in the least. I don't think that makes Christmas a pagan holiday -- at least I don't ever think of anyone other than Christ when I celebrate Christmas. But some groups within Christendom didn't choose to celebrate Christ's birth as much as the arrival of the magi (wisemen) bearing gifts. And so they immitated that. Depending on which denomination you are part of that day is often celebrated on January 6 or January 7 and is called Epiphany.

Of course, despite the view made famous by artists depicting a "Nativity Scene" with shepherds and magi and animals all crowed into a stable --which curiously looks in some paintings very much like a modern barn-- the arrival of the magi was probably about 2 years after Jesus' birth. (Matthew reports that Mary and Joseph were living in a house, the probable origin of your house blessing, Tania.) But now in celebrating all the events of Jesus' life from his birth, to the coming of the magi, to his baptism, to his death and resurrection each year, our thinking tends to get compressed and some of the images associated with them tend to stack up on top of one another. That's more of an awareness issue than a faith issue though.)

Some people recognize special "saints" days. KAding has reported about one of the origins of the modern day Santa Claus myth. Nicholas, bishop of Myra (in modern day Turkey), was known for giving gifts to children. And there are some special stories that sprung up around him. He was later declared a Saint by the RCC (I don't know if the Orthodox recognize him or not), and his saint's day happens to be in December. In some countries gift giving to children is done on his Saint's day, not on Christmas.

And there seem to be new traditions all the time. Two of the USA's most popular traditions come from other countries. The tradition of sending Christmas cards is barely over 100 years old and comes from the "Boxing" day traditions of England, while in Mexico stories were created around a little desert plant, the poinsettia. With its import to the USA, it is seen by many as "the" Christmas flower. And now, for better or worse (I think worse), elements like Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer and Frosty-the-snowman and ubiquitous with the season as well.

All of these traditions have one thing in common. The traditions are actually the creation of men. They are not Christmas. They are at best the box, the paper that Christmas is wrapped in.

Now, in my house, the youngest children get as excited by the wrappings as the item in the box itself. And you know what? If they just want to play with the box, we let them. But we notice as they grow older, while they get no less joy from the pretty decorations, they also look forward to what is in the box. I suggest we deal with the manmade traditions associated with Christmas men much the same way.

Realize that there will be those who are immature in either character or faith and who will get caught up in all of the decorations. They will think that Christmas is about presents, and snowmen, and trees, and lights, and tinsel, and TV specials, and who know what else. They will celebrate it on many different days and in different ways. Let them.

And for those who have matured, point them to the heart of Christmas. Point them to the Christ child. Let them celebrate and marvel in this wonderful gift that God has given us of himself. Emmanuel -- God is with us.
 
But some groups within Christendom didn't choose to celebrate Christ's birth as much as the arrival of the magi (wisemen) bearing gifts. And so they immitated that. Depending on which denomination you are part of that day is often celebrated on January 6 or January 7 and is called Epiphany.
Nicholas, bishop of Myra (in modern day Turkey), was known for giving gifts to children. In some countries gift giving to children is done on his Saint's day, not on Christmas.
Ohhh...We celebrate Saint Nicholas in 5th december when we have to clean perfectly the shoes in order to get sweets. Its tradition to receive only sweets and a stick if you were not so good. I remember i couldn't sleep to well over night waiting to hear the Saint coming. I always left the shoes in the middle of the room to can catch it :giggling:
I just check up and this year the Epiphany was in 6th january and he has also the meaning of what you said (magi) but i always thought only at baptism :-[
Thank you to correct me.
The Epiphany is the manifestation of Jesus as Messiah of Israel, Son of God and Savior of the world. The great feast of Epiphany celebrates the adoration of Jesus by the wise men (magi) from the East, together with his baptism in the Jordan and the wedding feast at Cana in Galilee.212
 
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Ohhh...We celebrate Saint Nicholas in 5th december when we have to clean perfectly the shoes in order to get sweets. Its tradition to receive only sweets and a stick if you were not so good. I remember i couldn't sleep to well over night waiting to hear the Saint coming. I always left the shoes in the middle of the room to can catch it :giggling:
I just check up and this year the Epiphany was in 6th january and he has also the meaning of what you said (magi) but i always thought only at baptism :-[
Thank you to correct me.
The Epiphany is the manifestation of Jesus as Messiah of Israel, Son of God and Savior of the world. The great feast of Epiphany celebrates the adoration of Jesus by the wise men (magi) from the East, together with his baptism in the Jordan and the wedding feast at Cana in Galilee.212

Tania, I don't know that you were wrong. There are so many different forms and ways of celebrating I don't think anyone can keep track of them all. And certainly, one way is not more right as if to say another way is wrong. Just different emphases is all.
 
Bah, humbug.

...I've just always wanted to say that. :p
 
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Re: Questions Re: Christmas

Does anyone know where the tradition of the Christmas (or Xmas, whatever is less likely to get me into trouble) tree came from? That particular tradition strikes me as kind of um... paganistic, to tell the truth, but I could be completely wrong. Do tell me if I'm wrong and if I'm stepping on any toes. Or roots. Or presents.
 
Re: Questions Re: Christmas

Does anyone know where the tradition of the Christmas (or Xmas, whatever is less likely to get me into trouble) tree came from? That particular tradition strikes me as kind of um... paganistic, to tell the truth, but I could be completely wrong. Do tell me if I'm wrong and if I'm stepping on any toes. Or roots. Or presents.
I thought it was too, Muezzin. Certainly some pagan religions had the custom of decorating the houses with greenery.
However, wikipedia tells me this:
The modern custom cannot be proved to be directly descended from pagan tradition. It can, however, be traced to 16th century Germany; Ingeborg Weber-Keller (Marburg professor of European ethnology) identified as the earliest reference a Bremen guild chronicle of 1570 which reports how a small fir was decorated with apples, nuts, dates, pretzels and paper flowers, and erected in the guild-house, for the benefit of the guild members' children, who collected the dainties on Christmas day. Another early reference is from Basel, where the tailor apprentices carried around town a tree decorated with apples and cheese in 1597. [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree

I also found this:
The fir tree has a long association with Christianity, it began in Germany almost 1,000 years ago when St Boniface, who converted the German people to Christianity, was said to have come across a group of pagans worshipping an oak tree. In anger, St Boniface is said to have cut down the oak tree and to his amazement a young fir tree sprung up from the roots of the oak tree. St Boniface took this as a sign of the Christian faith. But it was not until the 16th century that fir trees were brought indoors at Christmas time.
http://www.christmas-tree.com/where.html

Now, be so good and hand me the tinsel, please ... :)
And mind the mince pies ...! :D
 
:sl:

and also santa claus? who is he?

I think santa clause is supposed to represent someone called St. Nicholas who was a very generous person who gave presents to children and now this act of charity is displayed through kids getting presents from 'santa clause' or 'father christmas'. But to me it just seems like a huge opportunity for commercialisation in this day and age - correct me if i am wrong please.

off the topic a wee bit here: rearrange the letters and what do you get?:eek:

:w:
 
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