The Bible not corrupted?

[SilentObserver]

Many muslims often say that the Bible is corrupted, this forum is no exception with many people saying that. But it is the same thing that christians in christian sites claim about the quran. Some go into great detail explaining flaws in the quran.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

What happend to the Banu Qurayza then? Did an earthquake swallow them up? The only source from the time says they were guilty of breaking the truce, and they were massacred, by... of course, I will not mention.

I m writing from memory......i read about it long ago. Some Jews were war criminals & broke the treaty ........they demanded that they should be judged by Taurat/ Jewish law. Then the last
Prophet (p) granted them this facility & appointed a Jew ( most probably , he was the best learned person among the Jew at that time ). When he recited the verse from Jewish holy book ( i repeat , verdict was annouced from their own holy book ), it was like that men should be killed , women will become captives etc. I don't know about killing of any innocent kids.....if u have any proof that Quran tells us to kill children or the Last Prophet (p) killed any innocent person......show us the proof.


Strange.....i only asked u to explain a verse from ur own holy book and u r mad out of anger.......why ?

If u think, God ordered u to destroy a city because commiting shirk/worship other dieties besides one God is a great sin & sinners need to be punished ,why don't u just explain this calmly ?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

Though Christian history would not seem to bear out that Christians have always paid attention, Jesus encouraged his followers not to live by the sword.

---- I read Bible few years ago. I remember a verse like that , bring sword & use it who don't want to obey me or accept me ( not the exact words ) . So, why Jesus (p) oredered his disciples to bring sword ?

There is another verse like that , i came as fire or sword ( 2 different versions have 2 different words ). So, why Jesus (P) told these ?

Ishmael. So, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

----hehe , nothing but it has to do something with Palestine. Jews & Christians deny that Muslims have any right over Palestine when ur own holy books clearly states that the First born son deserves double portion .

 

[Umar001]

The Banu Qurayza (Arabic بنو قريظة; alternate spellings include Quraiza, Qurayzah, Quraytha, and the archaic Koreiza) were a Jewish tribe who lived in northern Arabia during the 7th century, at the oasis of Yathrib (now known as Medina). Nearly all of the tribe's men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were taken prisoner and then killed at Muhammad's command in 627 CE, following a siege mounted by Muslim inhabitants of Medina. The Muslims alleged that the Banu Qurayza had agreed to aid their Meccan enemies in their attack on Medina, which the Muslims had just repulsed in the Battle of the Trench.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

But then again was this not Hashems will?

Would be more interesting if you quoted from direct source, since in fact the link you gave had a BIG FAT SIGN:

The neutrality and factual accuracy of this article are disputed.
Please see the relevant discussion on the talk page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza

So please, if an event of such magnitude did happen then please please show us from proper sources, not from sources which the 'factual accuracy of' is disputed.

I made a mistake of carrying on this thread, whilst this should be solely on the topic of Is the Bible curropted.

Eesa.

 

[Umar001]

Many muslims often say that the Bible is corrupted, this forum is no exception with many people saying that. But it is the same thing that christians in christian sites claim about the quran. Some go into great detail explaining flaws in the quran.

Yes, but the fact that the bible book itself tells us that bits are not found before certain eras and so forth is clear signs, you don't have to go to a Muslim or Athiest Scholar to tell you that the Bible is curropted, but you do have to go to a Christian or Athiest Scholar to tell you the Qu'ran is, although some scholars outside of religion think the Quran is not curropted.

 

[IzakHalevas]

then just the men and 1 woman who killed one of the Muslims.

Really? Can you provide a source for that statement?

you don't have to go to a Muslim or Athiest Scholar to tell you that the Bible is curropted, but you do have to go to a Christian or Athiest Scholar to tell you the Qu'ran is, although some scholars outside of religion think the Quran is not curropted.

Really? What do you mean "corrupted"? I don't believe the Quran is corrupted, because to imply that it was corrupted means that you are implying that it was uncorrupt at one stage, or was a "truth" at one stage. Jews believe the Gospel, and Quran both to not be the word of G-d, and never have at any point. Therefore, they were never "corrupted" because they never were the word of G-d.

 

[YusufNoor]

Assalamu 'alaykum,

A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Shalom Izak,

IzakHalevas
Quote:
then just the men and 1 woman who killed one of the Muslims.

Really? Can you provide a source for that statement?

well, for starters: rav's post! Nearly all of the tribe's men, apart from a few who converted to Islam. i highlighted it like 3 or 4 times on my response! :giggling:

Astaghfirullah, sorry i couldn't resist the temptation! the source is actually EVERY SINGLE SEERAH i've heard! from Mufti Ismail Menk to Shayk Hamza Yusuf. check any biography of the Messenger of Allah(pbuh), look for the Battle of the Trench, sometimes it's called the Battle of the Confederates. it's on pp 1392-1394 of The Noble Life of The Prophet (pbuh) Vol 3 by Dr 'Ali Muhammad As-Sallaabee, translated by Faisal Shafeeq. THAT's actually the source where i read about the woman. Shayk Yusuf taught a course on Martin Ling's book and used a few other sources as well.

i would definitely encourage you to read more about the life of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh)! you WON'T find a single thing that he(pbuh) ever did that is a misjustice or out of place.

Jews believe the Gospel, and Quran both to not be the word of G-d, and never have at any point

i would have to disagree with that as well. EVERY SINGLE JEW that has EVER reverted KNOWS the Qur'an to be the revealed Word of G-d(SWT)!!!

and, Insha' Allah, that's the last time i go off topic in this thread! :rollseyes

Peace



Yusuf

ps: if you have more questions about Islam, why don't you get a thread going! it's NOT too late! there's still a chance for you!

pps: if you EVER need a Qur'an, i help see that you get one!

 

[IzakHalevas]

well, for starters: rav's post! Nearly all of the tribe's men,

Your right my bad. The women and children were all sold as slaves instead of killed.

apart from a few who converted to Islam.

Islam or death... hmmmm...

i would have to disagree with that as well. EVERY SINGLE JEW that has EVER reverted KNOWS the Qur'an to be the revealed Word of G-d(SWT)!!!

Of course they do, because they converted to Islam. And every convert to Judaism from Islam utterly rejects this claim.

ps: if you have more questions about Islam, why don't you get a thread going! it's NOT too late! there's still a chance for you!

Thank you but I am fine.

pps: if you EVER need a Qur'an, i help see that you get one!

I have one and I have read it.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

LOL! im gunna say this again, where u barking up this info from, ur imagination? How can u say that, when we cant sell people PERIOD! Dont bring in lies...k thnx.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

Your right my bad. The women and children were all sold as slaves instead of killed.

U r avoiding a major point that the verdict was given regarding the Jewish
holy book , NOT by Quran.

So, pl. tell us, what ur holy books tell u about war captive , war criminals . What Moses (p) ordered his soldiers etc. As Jewsih holy books are part of Chrsitians Bible , it won't be off-topic.

 

[Umar001]

Hi IzakHalevas,

Really? What do you mean "corrupted"? I don't believe the Quran is corrupted, because to imply that it was corrupted means that you are implying that it was uncorrupt at one stage, or was a "truth" at one stage. Jews believe the Gospel, and Quran both to not be the word of G-d, and never have at any point. Therefore, they were never "corrupted" because they never were the word of G-d.

To imply that a book is curropted does not neccesitate that the book is from God, for example, if you told me the Qu'ran is curropted, it could mean that from the time of Muhammad, peace be upon him, until now there have been some changes made, thus, the Qu'ran is not the same, this is regardless of whether it is the word of G-d. When a person says something is not curropt, i.e. it is in it's true form, this does not mean that it is the word of God, someone can say 'The Qu'ran is not curropted, i.e. it has not changed from what it was first given by Muhammad' and this person could still say 'And what Muhammad gave was NOT the word of God' So what your telling me above is not right

With regards to the Bible, the Bible itself testifies to the corruption, footnotes indicate changes that have taken place, whether this effects or is accepted by Jews, I don't know. That was why I asked for your view since you'd be able to give me an insight into it, but I understand that you have other more important things to do.

Eesa

As Jewsih holy books are part of Chrsitians Bible , it won't be off-topic.

Well the discussion is about the curroption of the Bible, how is the war fare involved inside it 'on topic'

 

[IzakHalevas]

LOL! im gunna say this again, where u barking up this info from, ur imagination? How can u say that, when we cant sell people PERIOD! Dont bring in lies...k thnx.

"And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some."


The verse 33:26 confirms that actually Muhammad did slew some of the Bani Quraiza.
But the verse does not talk about the details of that slaughter. The details of this event can be found in the hadith such as these:

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 448:



Narrated 'Aisha:

When the Prophet returned from the (battle) of Al-Khandaq (i.e. Trench) and laid down his arms and took a bath Gabriel came to him while he (i.e. Gabriel) was shaking the dust off his head, and said, "You have laid down the arms?" By Allah, I have not laid them down. Go out to them (to attack them)." The Prophet said, "Where?" Gabriel pointed towards Bani Quraiza. So Allah's Apostle went to them (i.e. Banu Quraiza) (i.e. besieged them). They then surrendered to the Prophet's judgment but he directed them to Sad to give his verdict concerning them. Sad said, "I give my judgment that their warriors should be killed, their women and children should be taken as captives, and their properties distributed."​

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390
Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair. ​

The children who were not killed became slaves.

With regards to the Bible, the Bible itself testifies to the corruption,

Please show me where in the Torah anything was changed. I'd like to see the footnotes as well.

 

[Umar001]

Astaghfirullah, sorry i couldn't resist the temptation! the source is actually EVERY SINGLE SEERAH i've heard! from Mufti Ismail Menk to Shayk Hamza Yusuf. check any biography of the Messenger of Allah(pbuh), look for the Battle of the Trench, sometimes it's called the Battle of the Confederates. it's on pp 1392-1394 of The Noble Life of The Prophet (pbuh) Vol 3 by Dr 'Ali Muhammad As-Sallaabee, translated by Faisal Shafeeq. THAT's actually the source where i read about the woman. Shayk Yusuf taught a course on Martin Ling's book and used a few other sources as well.

Wa Aleykum Salam wa Rhametulah,

And what authority does the Seerah hold, do you know the level of authenticity it has?

Please show me where in the Torah anything was changed. I'd like to see the footnotes as well.

Did I say the Torah? You even quoted me saying the Bible.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

So you took that and said the Prophet(saw) sold them? your like makin a fool out of urself right in ur own face and u dont even realize, well thats sad.
You went from captives to children?
Pathetic..
As for the captives, we have a thread on this and its been refuted. I would tell you right here, right now, but its not part of the topic. Please check it out, thanx.

noowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, back to topic.

 

[IzakHalevas]

So you took that and said the Prophet(saw) sold them?

I have read that some were sold to rich people. What do you think he did with all of his new "captives"?

But we are going way off topic.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Ok wheres that somewhere? The only time u were allowed to have captives at all was during war, and they were treated fairly. they were not harmed.
I dunno where ur gettin this from...
Like I said, we do have a thread on this. I dunno where though.
Check it out if u want
Yea it is off topic :hiding:

 

[IzakHalevas]

Ok wheres that somewhere? The only time u were allowed to have captives at all was during war, and they were treated fairly. they were not harmed.
I dunno where ur gettin this from...
Like I said, uf ud like ot know more, we do have a thread on this. I dunno where though.
Check it out if u want

So to be clear you are claiming that the Jews who did not have pubic heair yet as the Hadiith described were released?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

So to be clear you are claiming that the Jews who did not have pubic heair yet as the Hadiith described were released?

I duno anything about this particular topic, so i cant comment on it. All i know is they broke the treaty and one of the mods explained this already to u i believe. But im talking to u about captives and children in general during a war, since i figured u were referring to that as well.

Anyways i dont wana get yelled at, back to topic?

 

[Hijrah]

Sunan Abu-Dawud Book 38, Number 4390
Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi:

I was among the captives of Banu Qurayzah. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.

I never heard of this one, is this hadith really authentic? In another sahih hadith it is said that all the combatants were actually killed, so I figured that all the men must have been combatants. If this is the case, why were ALL the men killed, including non-combatants?!

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam;

...........Well the discussion is about the curroption of the Bible, how is the war fare involved inside it 'on topic'[/COLOR][/B]

hehe :giggling: ok , can we start a topic like this ( i saw this thread in another forum ) : Why Are The Jews Not Attacked
, There rules are extremely discriminatory against everyone . We can edit the title as attack may create confusion.

Title can be '' Why media condemn Holy Quran when other holy books have extremely discriminatory against
everyone'' ?