Saddam Trial Flawed: HRW

  • Thread starter Thread starter sonz
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 50
  • Views Views 6K

sonz

IB Expert
Messages
1,428
Reaction score
161
Gender
Male
Religion
Islam
NEW YORK — The trial of ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein for crimes against humanity was fundamentally flawed and the death penalty is unsound and indefensible, the Human Rights Watch (HRW) said on Monday, November 20.

"The trial... was marred by so many procedural and substantive flaws that the verdict is unsound," the rights watchdog said in a statement released with its 97-page report on the trial.

"The proceedings in the Dujail trial were fundamentally unfair," said Nehal Bhuta, who wrote the report.

Saddam was sentenced to death by hanging earlier this month over ordering the deaths of 148 Shiite civilians, mostly boys and men, from the town of Dujail, north of Baghdad, after an assassination attempt in 1982.

Two other defendants were also sentenced to death while four were sentenced to prison terms of from 15 years to life.

Among specific criticisms of Saddam's trial, the HRW says the court regularly failed to disclose key evidence to the defense in advance and defendants were denied the basic right to confront witnesses against them.

It said the trial saw "lapses of judicial demeanor" which made the presiding judge appear partial and there were "important gaps" in evidence that weakened the prosecution's case, putting in doubt the proof of the crimes charged.

The report is based on 10 months of observation and dozens of interviews with judges, prosecutors and defense lawyers.

While the verdict and sentences are under appeal, Saddam, who was forced from power by the US-led invasion in March 2003, is being tried on separate charges for genocide.

"Indefensible"

The HRW said the imposition of the death penalty in the wake of an unfair trial is "indefensible".

The HRW says the court that tried Saddam and seven co-defendants "was undermined from the outset by Iraqi government actions that threatened the independence and perceived impartiality of the court."

"The attitude of the cabinet towards the court and the trial is one of a consumer who pays money for a product," one judge told HRW. "The government treats the court like a factory."

"In addition, the imposition of the death penalty - an inherently cruel and inhumane punishment - in the wake of an unfair trial is indefensible."

The report described the behavior of second chief judge Raouf Abdel Rahman in court as erratic for repeatedly losing his temper, insulting defendants and making unexplained decisions, in one case refusing to let a defense lawyer question his own witness.

Relations between Rahman and defense counsel, who frequently boycotted proceedings, were "poisoned", the it added.

Because Iraqi lawyers and judges had been isolated from international criminal law, the report says, this decision resulted in a court that lacked the expertise to prosecute crimes against humanity on its own.

"Unless the Iraqi government allows experienced international judges and lawyers to participate directly, it's unlikely the court can fairly conduct other trials."

The US-led Coalition Provisional Authority decided that the Dujail trial would be held by an Iraqi court in Iraq, ruling out an international tribunal or a mixed Iraqi-international court under UN auspices.

Throughout the trial, three defense lawyers were murdered, three judges left the five-member panel and the original chief judge was replaced.

While Saddam's appeal is under consideration, governments in Europe, where most countries ban capital punishment, have led calls for his death sentence to be commuted.

But US President George W. Bush, who admitted that US intelligences that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction were flawed, has described the conviction and sentence as "a major achievement" for Iraq.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1163656936818&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout
 
The trouble with that sort of trial is that there is no way, in practice, it couldn't be flawed in some way or another.

I'm not quite sure what could be done, though. A re-trial is likely to be just as flawed as the first one, and as nobody in the position to make decisions (or anybody else, really) actually believes Saddam is anything other than guilty he is unlikely to get one. It would just mean more dead defence lawyers - assuming they got any volunteers for the job.

I agree that about all it would be practical to do is commute the death sentence to life imprisonment. They can hardly release him.
 
:sl:

Lesson to be learned: Don't be a dictator you'll meet a nasty and bloody end.
 
The trouble with that sort of trial is that there is no way, in practice, it couldn't be flawed in some way or another.
Mm-hmm.

I'm not quite sure what could be done, though. A re-trial is likely to be just as flawed as the first one, and as nobody in the position to make decisions (or anybody else, really) actually believes Saddam is anything other than guilty he is unlikely to get one. It would just mean more dead defence lawyers - assuming they got any volunteers for the job.
It was actually kind of darkly funny what happened to his defence team. Unless I'm just a weirdo.

I agree that about all it would be practical to do is commute the death sentence to life imprisonment. They can hardly release him.
If he does get life imprisonment, they should slip him cyanide pills. Lots of cyanide pills.
 
Re: Saddam TO HANG!!

Well he's to hang within 30 days. Sad in a way, as the americans and others knew he was killing kurds, but chose to ignore it because it suited them at that time. Let them too be hung in public!

A quote from some people who agreed with saddam!

'Meanwhile, some Hussein loyalists threatened to retaliate if the ousted Iraqi leader is executed, warning in a posting on the same Baath Party Web site that carried the former leader's letter they would target U.S. interests anywhere.'

This is what happens when people do as they please. It'll be a grave mistake to hang him. Let him be imprisoned.

Think carefully ameica.
 
Re: Saddam TO HANG!!

Well he's to hang within 30 days. Sad in a way, as the americans and others knew he was killing kurds, but chose to ignore it because it suited them at that time. Let them too be hung in public!

A quote from some people who agreed with saddam!

'Meanwhile, some Hussein loyalists threatened to retaliate if the ousted Iraqi leader is executed, warning in a posting on the same Baath Party Web site that carried the former leader's letter they would target U.S. interests anywhere.'

This is what happens when people do as they please. It'll be a grave mistake to hang him. Let him be imprisoned.

Think carefully ameica.

Think carefully America? It wasn't an American justice system that sentenced him to death. You can't have it both ways, either you want an independent Iraqi justice system or you don't. As for the "warning" from the Ba'athists, that is hardly shocking news.
 
That wasn't even a trial it was more like a T.V. show at least you can make some sense out of them unlike the trial. The last judge was high tempered, many details were missing from the so-called evidence, good lawyers left sdam's side after they were threatened and what is going on with stopping many important parts of the trial from being live (on Air). Obviously the judgment has been already made (by the government) even before the trial. It must not be called a trial it was more like a child's play ground.

:w:
 
Last edited:
I think Saddam is being kept alive due to delays for only one reason:

If all else fails and the US backs out; it'll definately back one side in the ensuing sectarian civil war, and that's the Sunnis. So things will actually go as they've always been.

Since the Sunnis and the Shias are pursuing religious ideals; the US will re-install Saddam as head of state; and he DOES still have at least a few million loyal followers.

Saddam will revive the (sinister) Ba'ath party and he will defeat the Shias in a matter of weeks.

And Iraq will be all-well again, besides having a brutal dictator; and we will be back to life circa 2002.


Good Night, folks! :omg:
 
Re: Saddam TO HANG!!

It wasn't an American justice system that sentenced him to death. You can't have it both ways, either you want an independent Iraqi justice system or you don't. As for the "warning" from the Ba'athists, that is hardly shocking news.

Is your mind closed? Iraqi system is based on favourable terms with the US. So don't give me that crap. This is the democracy US want to dish out. Because they need a hold, NOTHING ''independent'' about it! :rollseyes
 
How exactly could the trial be "fair?" You aren't going to find many people in Iraq who think Saddam is innocent of the charges. That is liking saying the trials of former Nazi leaders weren't fair because the evidence was so overwhelming against them. As for the Iraqi justice system being designed to be "favorable" to the U.S., how exactly is a justice system in Iraq "favorable" to the U.S.? It's a nice phrase, but has little substance without an example of how or why any particular justice system is favorable to the U.S.
 
The trial of ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein for crimes against humanity was fundamentally flawed and the death penalty is unsound and indefensible

Thousands of Kurds would disagree if they could get out of their mass graves.
 
Thousands of Kurds would disagree if they could get out of their mass graves.

You forget others were involved. What do you say about that?

Yes, he needs to be dealt with, but don't make out it was him acting alone. The west are held responisble too. Or will you and Ketoi deny this?
 
How exactly could the trial be "fair?" You aren't going to find many people in Iraq who think Saddam is innocent of the charges. That is liking saying the trials of former Nazi leaders weren't fair because the evidence was so overwhelming against them. As for the Iraqi justice system being designed to be "favorable" to the U.S., how exactly is a justice system in Iraq "favorable" to the U.S.? It's a nice phrase, but has little substance without an example of how or why any particular justice system is favorable to the U.S.

When you have an invading force pulling the strings then the puppets can only dance. Work it out! :)
 
You forget others were involved. What do you say about that?

Yes, he needs to be dealt with, but don't make out it was him acting alone. The west are held responisble too. Or will you and Ketoi deny this?

The "West" is no more responsible for what Saddam Hussein did as they were for what Hitler did. Yes, people were aware of the danger and the intentions, but it wasn't the U.S. who pulled the trigger or made the decision. Blaming the West seems to be in fashion around here, but let us put the blame where it belongs, on the guy in charge who ordered the mass killing of hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq.
 
I doubt if there is any way that the trial could have been conducted without it being flawed. I think the only questions are "Was it a fair trial and was Justice served?"
 
I doubt if there is any way that the trial could have been conducted without it being flawed. I think the only questions are "Was it a fair trial and was Justice served?"

You also have to consider what justice means to the various factions within Iraq. The Kurds will of course find justice in Saddam's execution, the same with many Shia. However, many Sunnis will not call it justice because they had control under Saddam. There is no perfect or right answer here, which is why I support a life-sentence over the death penalty in this case. That being said, I think it is fairly obvious to most people that Saddam is guilty as charged.
 
The "West" is no more responsible for what Saddam Hussein did as they were for what Hitler did. Yes, people were aware of the danger and the intentions, but it wasn't the U.S. who pulled the trigger or made the decision. Blaming the West seems to be in fashion around here, but let us put the blame where it belongs, on the guy in charge who ordered the mass killing of hundreds of thousands of people in Iraq.
I wish people would apply that logic when judging Muslims who allegedly do nothing to stop certain violent minorities committing atrocities.

I'm not saying you're like that. I agree with the logic. Blame the blameworthy.
 
Agreed. The trial was a lose-lose situation. No matter what the outcome was there still would be many people seeing it as unfair.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top