The Psychology of "End Times"

[lolwatever]

And if atheism is a religion then bald is a hair colour.

lol you don't have anything to offer besides trying to lure people off topic now ha :exhausted

 

[Pygoscelis]

lol you don't have anything to offer besides trying to lure people off topic now ha :exhausted

I've said all there is to say. You've not presented anything that needs any further response, so we move on.

Meanwhile you may consider dropping the childish attitude.

 

[- Qatada -]

Nah, i don't think thats fair pygo, if you don't have anything to say to a post - atleast take into consideration the hard work the other person puts in. That goes for anyone.



Peace.

 

[lolwatever]

^ so tru :X

I've said all there is to say. You've not presented anything that needs any further response, so we move on.

Meanwhile you may consider dropping the childish attitude.

:haha: well since u wanna flee... we'll make a conclusion of all the unanswered questions you've left... (and they're directly related to the topic mind you)

1. How about we take it step by step. Seeing your question is "wat are teh psychological effects of believing in the end fo time"

I'll start with:

"Are you happy with me using The economic Law of opportunity cost and the Cost-benefit principle to answr your question?"


2. Based on Cost-Benefit principle:

A rational athiest is likely to steal if the benefit of doing such an act is greater than the cost. A rational Muslim would never do that because the cost of doing such thing exceeds the immediate benefit.

Do you disagree? Then disprove that theory. That's what this thread is about.


3.How about we take it step by step. Seeing your question is "wat are teh psychological effects of believing in the end fo time"

I'll start with:

"Are you happy with me using The economic Law of opportunity cost and the Cost-benefit principle to answr your question?"


4.Muslims believe that if you don't make the most of this life, you're facing some serious danger in the afterlife.

Also... the phrase "you'd better make teh most of it" can be looked at dfiferently by different athiests, an athiest who doesn't believe in accountability may very well interpret it to mean that it's a good idea to steal, cheat, make as much money (thru whatever means), as long as you enjoy life. (and who cares about the environment). (infact, a rational athiest, is highly likely to do wats in his personal itnerest irrespectiv of social decorum and or moral code)

Whereas with Muslims, that sort of interpretation is 100% out of the equation. Because it means you're destined for trouble in the hereafter :uuh:

tc all the best

ps: infact, a perfectly rational athiest would steal, cheat and all that if he knwos he can escape, since that's indeed 'making the most of your life' if there was no accountability.

refute it.


5."Rational Humans are goverend by the cost-benefit principle, they will do what is in their personal interest in every situation"

Taking the theft scenario for example, assuming there was absoltuely no one watching and no way of getting caught,

This is a very possible situation: For an athiest, benefit of stealing 5kg of gold could possibly outweigh the cost of such an act. There's no accountabilty of cost in first place... so why not?

In case of a Muslim, the cost of stealing could be many years in hell fire :| By the cost-benefit principle, a rational Muslim would not steal, an athiest could.


Disprove it using the laws i'm basing it on, or on any other law to do with psychology or economics if you want! :rollseyes





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Everyone feel free to read pygo's post... not a single one of those was refuted using any psych or economic principles....

There's more unanswered questions thn tht btw... but they're similar.. so i put the main 5.

 

[Pygoscelis]

All you have done here is make some bold and offensive claims and named some unrelated theories without showing that they are in any way applicable.

I have attempted to show that religion does not inspire good, it inspires obedience. They are not the same thing. Obedience may enforce, inspire, and rationalize both socially constructive and destructive behaviour. I gave a few examples of the destructive and you attempeted to refute them, declaring success, but really only in your own mind. You tried to islolate Islam from other religious thought and you even used the no true scottsman fallacy to isolate it from danergous interpretations of itself.

You repeadtedly assume that people who do not believe in Gods have no reasons to do good or to go with social demands, neither of which is true. As I stated in the very first post following your rather bold claim, you would have to be a psychopath to lack any force on you to do good or what is in the better interest of the society.

This is why I have asked you multiple times if YOU would behave in such a deranged manner if you lost your faith. You refuse to answer this. And I suspect it is because you are aware of the forces that would stop you from such behaviour but just don't want to admit to it.

Your cold hard econimic rule as applied here would ONLY apply to somebody who looked at the world in a cold and hard selfish way, ie a psychopath.

And your claim btw wasn't as benign as "people will steal in desperate conditions" it was "atheists are LIKELY to be theives". Go reread it.

Moreover if you want to hit upon Maslow you should actually study that theory, not that it has ever been shown to apply to this situation. The theory is that there is a heirarchy of needs, and that people will do whatever must be done for food and shelter before considering other matters. That INCLUDES punishment/reward dynamic. And if you want to extend it to this situation (which I don't think it applies) it would include your imagined overseer (God).

Please, try to get over yourself. The childish attitude doesn't befit what folks here claim muslims are supposed to be.

As for Fi's supporting you, that is to be expected on a board with a particular ideology where you subscribe to it and the other does not. You'd find a similar experience but in reverse on a board like iidb.

And as for me "fleeing", its more like walking away shaking my head. You seem to need to make your "point". As unsuported and nonsensical as it is, I'm not really interested in debating it, becuase doing so has only caused us to spin around in circles, and frankly there are better uses of time.

 

[lolwatever]

All you have done here is make some bold and offensive claims and named some unrelated theories without showing that they are in any way applicable.

n i left the door wiiiiiiide open 4 u to disprove them using even a shred of psychology or economics

I have attempted to show that religion does not inspire good, it inspires obedience. They are not the same thing. Obedience may enforce, inspire, and rationalize both socially constructive and destructive behaviour. I gave a few examples of the destructive and you attempeted to refute them, declaring success, but really only in your own mind. You tried to islolate Islam from other religious thought and you even used the no true scottsman fallacy to isolate it from danergous interpretations of itself.

So you agree that the end of times does have the effect of giving Muslims a greater incentive to be obedient to the rules compared to someone who doesn't believe in it?

So then what's your problem? :rollseyes

As for "religion doesn't inspire good", well Islam commands people to give charity, help the needy, be kind to women, seek knowledge, do our best and many other things.... only a psychopath would believe their not good. So prove they aren't good! :thumbs_up

You repeadtedly assume that people who do not believe in Gods have no reasons to do good or to go with social demands, neither of which is true.

Where did i say that? :?

Sis Malaikah hinted that u might hav misunderstood where i'm coming from... so i thought i'd make it clear:

hm maybe das wat i need to make clear.

natural inclination just means you know that something is rong or right, we know its wrong to swear for example, but a sum1 might still do that.

natural inclination doesnt mean we're angels.. it just means we know what we're doing is right or wrong.

so when u said:

is their conscience, fear of being caught, the police, jail, friends/family, reputation etc... your argument probably applies to the smaller things in general, and in rarer cases to bigger sins...

conscience: robbers ofcourse know wat they doing is wrong, but they still do it coz there's no incentive to not do it.

they dont steal coz someoen is watching, when that person is not watching, they are likely to do it.

das my point... judgement day gives Muslims a greater incentive compared to athiests.

and its not as rare as we think it is.... in the US rape related crime occurs on average every 90 seconds. Robbery is crazy, alchoholism is huge.

Compare it to Muslim coutnries filled with ppl who know that Allah is watching, rape is no where near the US and others, alchohol is zero.

Why? coz they dont really understand properly the idea of judgemetn day.... its not only athiests, same goes for anyone else who claism 2b religious but doesnt understand DOJ and accountability the way we do.

^ so its nothing to do with athiests nto havign a sense to figure that some stuff is wrong... it's to do with whether they'll abide by those instincts when it conflicts with self interest.

As I stated in the very first post following your rather bold claim, you would have to be a psychopath to lack any force on you to do good or what is in the better interest of the society.

According to what psychological/economic law are you basing your claim on?

Personally i agree only selfish people dont care about other ppl, but rational people who dont have incentive to do so are very likely to be like that.

This is why I have asked you multiple times if YOU would behave in such a deranged manner if you lost your faith. You refuse to answer this. And I suspect it is because you are aware of the forces that would stop you from such behaviour but just don't want to admit to it.

lie. I answered it so many times.

A rational athiest who doesnt believe in Day of Judgemetn is would do anything where benefit > cost. If you're rational you would do that too. And so would i or anyone else.

Your cold hard econimic rule as applied here would ONLY apply to somebody who looked at the world in a cold and hard selfish way, ie a psychopath.

Well It's your chance to win a nobel prize and prove that economic law false

You're being emotional/arrogant, not analytical. Ever realised that?

And your claim btw wasn't as benign as "people will steal in desperate conditions" it was "atheists are LIKELY to be theives". Go reread it.

i said 'rational athiests are likely to steal if benefit > cost' (e.g. if no one watching)

I based it on the Cost-Benefit principle.

You refuse to refute the laws.

Moreover if you want to hit upon Maslow you should actually study that theory, not that it has ever been shown to apply to this situation. The theory is that there is a heirarchy of needs, and that people will do whatever must be done for food and shelter before considering other matters. That INCLUDES punishment/reward dynamic. And if you want to extend it to this situation (which I don't think it applies) it would include your imagined overseer (God).

:haha: y u think i quoted it if i havnt studied it :rollseyes i've done bizness mgmnt so i have a v good idea of that theory as well as other models.

you're perfectly right, and notice that empathy kicks in only at the very top. Meaning that humans are goverened by the Cost-Benefit principle in majority of their lives.

And maslow's heirarchy only applies as a consequence of the opportunity-cost and cost-benefit principle.

Please, try to get over yourself. The childish attitude doesn't befit what folks here claim muslims are supposed to be.

I'd rather be childish than arrogant and self-conceited.

Time to pick up an economics/psychology book and either try look for some theories to backup your claims or try win a nobel prize by refuting the undisputed laws of Opportunity cost and Cost-Benefit.

As for Fi's supporting you, that is to be expected on a board with a particular ideology where you subscribe to it and the other does not. You'd find a similar experience but in reverse on a board like iidb.

Fi asked a simple question, just answer those 5 questions, one by one and atleast you'd save yourself the embaressment.

And as for me "fleeing", its more like walking away shaking my head. You seem to need to make your "point". As unsuported and nonsensical as it is, I'm not really interested in debating it, becuase doing so has only caused us to spin around in circles, and frankly there are better uses of time.

That begs the question, why did you even bother starting this thread. What sort of answr are you looking for? You could have saved yourself precious time by answering those 5 questions above or atleast pointing out how they have nothing to do with topic. :X