Clarification on my Position on Israel

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eagleye said:
wow, so many homelands :D
you basing on what it is not their homeland???
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If you're a Russian jew,...you get to go to Israel and boom its automatically your 'homeland'. No way in hell man. Not when Palestinians can trace their families hundreds of years in that region, thats their homeland. If a jew justifies it being a homeland by showing you jewish biblical sites, a Palestinian will justify it by showing you his great grandfathers house and birthplace. Any discerning person will see whose homeland it really is.
 
SATalha said:
Stability? You talk about stability, this is something that we had in abundance when we had a Islamic state. Since the fall we have been working to re-build it. That is all we want a Islamic country that is non-secular and non-western, but with Islamic principles is that so much to ask.

The loss of Al-quds and the rise of Isreal was a big wake up call to us and we are working towards rebuilding our past glory. Why cant we have our own society where western ideals and democatcy is non-existant.
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Probably because enough Muslims don't want it. You'll have to take out those within the Muslim world who do not strive to unite the Ummah, nor believe that the Shariah should be imposed. You can't blame that on Israel. Israel is not the reason that there is no Muslim-majority country on this planet which implements the shariah fully. It is naive to think it will happen if only you could take care Israel.
 
Jibril said:
No peace without justice. Israel can't say they want peace while holding a gun to the head of the Palestinians. Until they stop oppressing Palestinians I will continue to believe that Israel has no right to exist since they have taken this right away from the Palestinians.
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So in principle you think the Jewish state has a right to exist in the holy land as long as they stop oppressing the Palestinians?
 
a Muslim who comes from UK for instance to an Islamic country will be consider a foreigner? (odd) Islamic ummah is one, if I understood it correctly.
Jews as I read in some thread here, bought the parts of the land.
after that, they gonna ask who they are to host in their land?
Jews can trace thousands of years in that region. and the bible is far more old than Koran is. birth place in a train does not constitute a train is now baby's property. nor born in somebody's land. according to a Muslim here Palestinians are not owners of the land. and he is not alone majority see it as a Muslim land which is quite bizarre for a religion who originated from Saudi Arabia.
 
Ok now i will say what i think about this conflict.

My country Poland was under occupations for 123 years, by 3 empires- Russia, Germany, Austria. It lasted since 1795 to 1918.
At those times those 3 empires were most powerful countries in world.They were like America now. They had most powerful and beggest armies.My country just became a victim of their imperial politicy.
Of course Poles made many uprisings against occupants. In 1830,in 1846, in 1863, in 1905, in 1917.
We fought for our freedom. We hever achieved any help from any country or organization, just like Palestina get help now from arabic countries or European Union. We were totally alone, even Pope didnt support us although that we were
catholic country.
But ladies and gentlemen through 123 years of occupation never polish soldier attacked civilians of our occupants.Never. They didnt kill innocent people like Hamas or Hesbullah do now. Thats why i call polsih soldiers real freedom fighters. They really deserved to be called like that. Those who attack innocent civilans dont deserve to be called men. Polsih soldier would prefer to die rather than to attack innocent civilian. And our occupation lasted for 123 years ladies and gentlemen, its much more than this situation in Palestina.
 
Wolodyjowski said:
Ok now i will say what i think about this conflict.

My country Poland was under occupations for 123 years, by 3 empires- Russia, Germany, Austria. It lasted since 1795 to 1918.
At those times those 3 empires were most powerful countries in world.They were like America now. They had most powerful and beggest armies.My country just became a victim of their imperial politicy.
Of course Poles made many uprisings against occupants. In 1830,in 1846, in 1863, in 1905, in 1917.
We fought for our freedom. We hever achieved any help from any country or organization, just like Palestina get help now from arabic countries or European Union. We were totally alone, even Pope didnt support us although that we were
catholic country.
But ladies and gentlemen through 123 years of occupation never polish soldier attacked civilians of our occupants.Never. They didnt kill innocent people like Hamas or Hesbullah do now. Thats why i call polsih soldiers real freedom fighters. They really deserved to be called like that. Those who attack innocent civilans dont deserve to be called men. Polsih soldier would prefer to die rather than to attack innocent civilian. And our occupation lasted for 123 years ladies and gentlemen, its much more than this situation in Palestina.
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Thats a terrible comparison. Poland was colonized,..but so was almost every Muslim country for almost 200 years. During all those years of colonization Muslims never resorted to suicide bombs. There is a difference between being colonized and being imprisoned, abused, and humiliated every single day. Ofcourse colonizers are usually oppressive but never at the sustained level of abuse the Israelis have been subjecting the Palestinians too. Also, Russia, Germany or Austria weren't expelling Poles into refugee camps and taking all the land. Poles haven't suffered an ounce of what the Palestinians have suffered who are you kidding.
 
Jibril said:
Thats a terrible comparison. Poland was colonized,..but so was almost every Muslim country for almost 200 years. During all those years of colonization Muslims never resorted to suicide bombs. There is a difference between being colonized and being imprisoned, abused, and humiliated every single day. Ofcourse colonizers are usually oppressive but never at the sustained level of abuse the Israelis have been subjecting the Palestinians too. Also, Russia, Germany or Austria weren't expelling Poles into refugee camps and taking all the land. Poles haven't suffered an ounce of what the Palestinians have suffered who are you kidding.
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The Palestinians chose to leave their land though, when the boarding countries were about to go to war with Israel. Israel should be allowed to exist, they had no problem with the Jordanians (now called Palestinians)that lived in Israel when it was created, it was the Jordanians that wanted war and wanted the Jews to leave. They kind of brought it on themselves, not only that but Palestine is just as bad, if not worse than Israel in my book, they both are oppressive, consumed with war, and have no regard for human life. What makes Palestine worse is their guerilla warfare, they hide amongst their civilians, rather than fight a war, they launch attacks on innocent Israeli citizens, and now they are fighting against themselves over political issues. If they fought like men and actually tried to resolve the issue I would have more respect for Palestine but as I see them now, I would rather see Palestine wiped off the map before Israel.
 
Jibril said:
Thats a terrible comparison. Poland was colonized,..but so was almost every Muslim country for almost 200 years. During all those years of colonization Muslims never resorted to suicide bombs. There is a difference between being colonized and being imprisoned, abused, and humiliated every single day. Ofcourse colonizers are usually oppressive but never at the sustained level of abuse the Israelis have been subjecting the Palestinians too. Also, Russia, Germany or Austria weren't expelling Poles into refugee camps and taking all the land. Poles haven't suffered an ounce of what the Palestinians have suffered who are you kidding.
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Actually i am on second year of history in academy so let me claim that i know history of Poland better than you.
You said that Poles were treated better under occupation than Palestinians are now?
Let me tell you.
Polish children couldnt speak polish language in schools, they couldnt even pray in polish language.You said that our occupants didnt take our land?
Dear Jibril, after the thir partipition of Poland in 1795 Poland disapeared from european continent. There was no polish country.Our land was divided into Russia, Germany and Austria. And it still doesnt change my view that there is no justification for attacking civilians on purpose. You didnt change my view about this Jibril. What a mother can be who sends her child for death as a shahid? How can i call her a mother ? What should i think about mothers who are happy that their sons became martyrs?
 
MTAFFI said:
The Palestinians chose to leave their land though, when the boarding countries were about to go to war with Israel. Israel should be allowed to exist, they had no problem with the Jordanians (now called Palestinians)that lived in Israel when it was created, it was the Jordanians that wanted war and wanted the Jews to leave. They kind of brought it on themselves, not only that but Palestine is just as bad, if not worse than Israel in my book, they both are oppressive, consumed with war, and have no regard for human life. What makes Palestine worse is their guerilla warfare, they hide amongst their civilians, rather than fight a war, they launch attacks on innocent Israeli citizens, and now they are fighting against themselves over political issues. If they fought like men and actually tried to resolve the issue I would have more respect for Palestine but as I see them now, I would rather see Palestine wiped off the map before Israel.
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Agree 100 %
 
Salaam,

The picture show it all...

2006_idf_trophy.jpg
 
The picture says it all?
Some homeless guy sleeping in the street was not awakened by a giant, bloody snowball. Some unidentified soldiers walking by decided to take a picture of the bloody snowball and decide not to help the homeless guy, showing they are not really interested in the struggle of the poor. And then someone else takes a picture of the giant snowball, showing they aren't interested in the plight of the homeless either.
 
Zulkifilm you are so full of Jew hatred,watch it before you explode somewhere.
And don't post photos of IDF soldiers that really doesn't have any effect.

As for this thread it is simply laughable,yeah that's right we are all jolly going to give the land of our ancestors to the Muslim plunderers and compensate them for trying to kill us only to be brutaly murdered afterwards on the spot.

---
:D

Why don't Muslims give back all the lands they stole from the original inhabitants and go back to Saudi Arabia which is the home of Islam by the same logic?
 
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evilzionist said:
Zulkifilm you are so full of Jew hatred,watch it before you explode somewhere.
And don't post photos of IDF soldiers that really doesn't have any effect.

As for this thread it is simply laughable,yeah that's right we are all jolly going to give the land of our ancestors to the Muslim plunderers and compensate them for trying to kill us only to be brutaly murdered afterwards on the spot.

To give the "Palestinians" to run a state,what is it some kind of joke,look how well they get along with each other now you want to give these barbarians a state??:D

Why don't Muslims give back all the lands they stole from the original inhabitants and go back to Saudi Arabia which is the home of Islam by the same logic?
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hmmm interesting choice of name, i assume you are trying to be ironic.

if you choose not to accept a truce, choose not to accept a final settlement that recognises muslim sovereignty then really then the muslims are left with no option.

i really hope others are not as close minded as you in israel but i think they might be unfortunetely.

Abu Abdullah
 
Dawud_uk said:
Why a truce and not a peace settlement? Well in Islam we cannot hand over one hand span of Muslim land, to do so would be ruling by other than God and his final messenger have revealed and could even be judged an act of apostasy therefore.
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This is an interesting position with far-reaching consequences. Obviously the land that is now Israel is not the only land Muslims ever lost. To give a few examples of much more massive land loss:

1. Much of the Balkans was ones under Muslims (Ottoman) rule. Up to the gates of Vienna.
2. Much of what is now Russia was Islamic until at least the 18th century
3. The Mughal Empire streched deep into what is now Hindu India. Lets not forget that after the Indian independence many Muslims were uprooted and moved to what is now Pakistan.
4. Spain was Muslim land for centuries

Is the above ruling applies to Israel. Then logically, it also applies to all these cases. So I assume the solution you extend to the Jews in Israel also extends to the Spaniards, Bulgarians, Romanians, Greeks, Hungarians, Serbians, Indians, Russians, Ukranians, etc? If not, why not? What makes these cases different?

In short: looks like the Muhajedeen have their work cut out for them ;).
 
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KAding said:
This is an interesting position with far-reaching consequences. Obviously the land that is now Israel is not the only land Muslims ever lost. To give a few examples of much more massive land loss:

1. Much of the Balkans was ones under Muslims (Ottoman) rule. Up to the gates of Vienna.
2. Much of what is now Russia was Islamic until at least the 18th century
3. The Mughal Empire streched deep into what is now Hindu India. Lets not forget that after the Indian independence many Muslims were uprooted and moved to what is now Pakistan.
4. Spain was Muslim land for centuries

Is the above ruling applies to Israel. Then logically, it also applies to all these cases. So I assume the solution you extend to the Jews in Israel also extends to the Spaniards, Bulgarians, Romanians, Greeks, Hungarians, Serbians, Indians, Russians, Ukranians, etc? If not, why not? What makes these cases different?

In short: looks like the Muhajedeen have their work cut out for them ;).
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actually it is one of the prophesies reported from the prophet Muhammad saws that rome and india will both be under muslim rule at the end times, but that is a different thread as is your's. please feel free to make a new thread and send me the link and i will respond to it there.

Abu Abdullah
 
KAding said:
This is an interesting position with far-reaching consequences. Obviously the land that is now Israel is not the only land Muslims ever lost. To give a few examples of much more massive land loss:

1. Much of the Balkans was ones under Muslims (Ottoman) rule. Up to the gates of Vienna.
2. Much of what is now Russia was Islamic until at least the 18th century
3. The Mughal Empire streched deep into what is now Hindu India. Lets not forget that after the Indian independence many Muslims were uprooted and moved to what is now Pakistan.
4. Spain was Muslim land for centuries

Is the above ruling applies to Israel. Then logically, it also applies to all these cases. So I assume the solution you extend to the Jews in Israel also extends to the Spaniards, Bulgarians, Romanians, Greeks, Hungarians, Serbians, Indians, Russians, Ukranians, etc? If not, why not? What makes these cases different?

In short: looks like the Muhajedeen have their work cut out for them ;).
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but hey these are Jewish homelands according to Jibril :rolleyes:
 
hmmm interesting choice of name, i assume you are trying to be ironic.

if you choose not to accept a truce, choose not to accept a final settlement that recognises muslim sovereignty then really then the muslims are left with no option.

i really hope others are not as close minded as you in israel but i think they might be unfortunetely.

Abu Abdullah
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I am ironic.
Why should I recognise Muslim sovereignity?
Who gave you the right to declare that Israel is part of the Muslim Ummah?
The Muslims don't want an option,that is the problem.
We are here to make sure this is not going to happen.
Isn't that a surprise that you lost all your wars against Israel while you also started all of them?
Isn't it a surprise that you teach your children from birth to hate Israel and Jews and create jihadi factories?
Is it a wonder you're still stuck in 7th century mode?
Every country under Islamic rule is absoulutly horrible,otherwise tell me why aren't you living right now in one of your Islamic paradises?

This will never happen in Israel,never.
Regards,
 
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