Clarification on my Position on Israel

[Jibril]

but hey these are Jewish homelands according to Jibril

No,.. I said they were the homelands of many Israeli jews in particular. And thats the point, you can't call the Middle East the homeland of an American jew born and raised in Bensonhurst, whose parents were also born and raised in bensonhurst, whose grandparents came from western Europe. It doesn't make sense. Even if they originated there 2000 years ago,..so what? All humanity originated in Africa does that make everyone African?

 

[SATalha]

No peace without justice. Israel can't say they want peace while holding a gun to the head of the Palestinians. Until they stop oppressing Palestinians I will continue to believe that Israel has no right to exist since they have taken this right away from the Palestinians.

Ameen to that

 

[eagleye]

No,.. I said they were the homelands of many Israeli jews in particular. And thats the point, you can't call the Middle East the homeland of an American jew born and raised in Bensonhurst, whose parents were also born and raised in bensonhurst, whose grandparents came from western Europe. It doesn't make sense. Even if they originated there 2000 years ago,..so what? All humanity originated in Africa does that make everyone African?

interesting to see Muslims without their homeland in meantime dwelling in foreign land...for 2000 years especially when they lost to a conquerer Mecca or Medina.

 

[deen_2007]

ameen

 

[Dawud_uk]

I am ironic.
Why should I recognise Muslim sovereignity?
Who gave you the right to declare that Israel is part of the Muslim Ummah?
The Muslims don't want an option,that is the problem.
We are here to make sure this is not going to happen.
Isn't that a surprise that you lost all your wars against Israel while you also started all of them?
Isn't it a surprise that you teach your children from birth to hate Israel and Jews and create jihadi factories?
Is it a wonder you're still stuck in 7th century mode?
Every country under Islamic rule is absoulutly horrible,otherwise tell me why aren't you living right now in one of your Islamic paradises?

This will never happen in Israel,never.
Regards,

there is not a single country under islamic rule, not one and this is part of the muslims problem. why should Allah grant us victory when we are sinful and far from his path?

didnt Allah not also punish the jewish people for their arrogance and transgressions by using their enemies to punish them?

so it is now, Allah punishes the muslims, his true believers by sending enemies against them such as the zionists.

when we return to our faith and remove the corruption and evil from the muslim lands then Allah will grant us victory.

Abu Abdullah

 

[brenton]

Posts get deleted or edited on many forums, especially when the poster cannot control his or her outbursts, or they are of an inflammatory nature.

 

[Goku]

I am ironic.
Why should I recognise Muslim sovereignity?
Who gave you the right to declare that Israel is part of the Muslim Ummah?
The Muslims don't want an option,that is the problem.
We are here to make sure this is not going to happen.
Isn't that a surprise that you lost all your wars against Israel while you also started all of them?
Isn't it a surprise that you teach your children from birth to hate Israel and Jews and create jihadi factories?
Is it a wonder you're still stuck in 7th century mode?
Every country under Islamic rule is absoulutly horrible,otherwise tell me why aren't you living right now in one of your Islamic paradises?

This will never happen in Israel,never.
Regards,

Actually there was no country called Israel until the late 1940s. That land was under Muslim control and Muslim majority for centuries. The Arabs of Palestine took in Jewish refugees from Europe to help them against Nazi persecution. Lo and behold, no allied country of Europe wanted Jewish refugees. The Arabs helped the Jews and the Jews repaid them by setting up the zionist movement, taking the land of their hosts, creating terrorist groups to drive Palestinians out of their own homes, taking in Jews from all around the world to create illegal "settlements" and bulldozing Palestinian homes to this day, not to mention the violent and brutal occupation of Palestinian lands such as West Bank, East Jerusalem and Golan Heights, as well as killing many Palestinian civilians including women and children. This doesnt even include the brutal Israeli bombing of Lebanon in 2006 and the invasion of Lebanon in 1982. As well as the recent developments on Israeli demolisihing the gates of the Holy Al Aqsa Mosque and digging underneath it to try and destabilse its foundation.

As long as terrorist Israelis continue occupying Palestinian lands which they stole in 1967 (as if the UN appointed land in 1948, already unfair on the Palestinians, wasnt enough) unfortunately it looks like there will be conflict.

Even Israelis themselves recognise the occupation of Palestine as unjust, oppressive and brutal:

The face of refusal in Israel is getting younger. More and more, young people are refusing to be a part of the occupation and violent control of the Occupied Territories and choosing conscientious objection over the IDF

http://www.refusersolidarity.net/

There is a solution, Israel pulls out from all captured lands of the 1967 war and allows Palestinian refugees who were displaced return back to their homes, then the Arab states will recognise Israel, this is in the 2002 Beirut agreement. The ball is in Israel's court. As history as shown, with occupation comes a war of independance, costing lives. If Israel doesnt withdraw from the lands it captured like even the UN says it must, then the possibility of a war of independance from Israeli occupation is likely in the future, war is bad, it is better to solve things diplomatically.

 

[eagleye]

till 1917 ottoman empire dominate the land then it was under British rule
nothing in history records points out "The Arabs of Palestine took in Jewish refugees from Europe to help them against Nazi persecution"
the Zionist Movement established during ww1 and not ww2
you provided imprecise records of history

 

[Jibril]

till 1917 ottoman empire dominate the land then it was under British rule
nothing in history records points out "The Arabs of Palestine took in Jewish refugees from Europe to help them against Nazi persecution"
the Zionist Movement established during ww1 and not ww2
you provided imprecise records of history

No one is saying the Palestinians saved the jews from ww2 or anything. But since the late 19th century the Palestinians were welcoming and tolerant of the jews that were moving there. Only when their numbers started to swell greatly after ww1 did Palestinians start to feel resentment toward Jewish immigration to their country. Thats because they saw it as a British plan (especially with the Balfour declaration) to steal their land and holy sites. But the Palestinians were not historically antisemitic although there have been many malicious efforts to somehow tie them to nazism and the 3rd reich.

 

[eagleye]

No one is saying the Palestinians saved the jews from ww2 or anything. But since the late 19th century the Palestinians were welcoming and tolerant of the jews that were moving there. Only when their numbers started to swell greatly after ww1 did Palestinians start to feel resentment toward Jewish immigration to their country. Thats because they saw it as a British plan (especially with the Balfour declaration) to steal their land and holy sites.

I would not point it out if, Goku would not presented it.
there are holy sites belong to the jews as well. the temple mount for instance is still a site holy to the jews even so there are the dome of the rock and al aqsa.
the jews however tolerate as well the present of the Muslims who occupies the most significant site to the jews.
let it be millions jews coming. the British are the owners of the land and not Palestinians and as history shows it was settled between them the owners (the British) and the jews eventually.

 

[Jibril]

I would not point it out if, Goku would not presented it.
there are holy sites belong to the jews as well. the temple mount for instance is still a site holy to the jews even so there are the dome of the rock and al aqsa.
the jews however tolerate as well the present of the Muslims who occupies the most significant site to the jews.
let it be millions jews coming. the British are the owners of the land and not Palestinians and as history shows it was settled between them the owners (the British) and the jews eventually.

The british aren't/weren't the owners of the land they were the thieves of the land. A thief might have something, it doesn't mean it belongs to him.

 

[eagleye]

But the Palestinians were not historically antisemitic although there have been many malicious efforts to somehow tie them to nazism and the 3rd reich.

I'm afraid to break it to you, that history presents a very gloomy picture.

 

[Jibril]

I'm afraid history presents a very gloomy picture.

I think historically Muslims have been less anti-semitic than Europeans and Christians. European attitudes toward Jews started changing for 2 reasons, guilt about the holocaust and a significant reduction in the jewish population of Europe.

 

[eagleye]

The british aren't/weren't the owners of the land they were the thieves of the land. A thief might have something, it doesn't mean it belongs to him.

are you suggestig omar is a thief?...etc as they recieve the ownership of the land same way as the british. by sword.

 

[Trumble]

They have never needed American help? Where do you think they get their wepons from and money? Dude what planet are you on!!!!!!

Planet 'Facts'. Most of the weapons used in the major wars against the Arab nations were actually of French and British origin. Most of their opponents weapons were of Soviet origin, so by your logic the Arab nations could have done nothing without Soviet "help". Today, Israel is a net exporter of weapons, not importer.

 

[eagleye]

I think historically Muslims have been less anti-semitic than Europeans and Christians. European attitudes toward Jews started changing for 2 reasons, guilt about the holocaust and a significant reduction in the jewish population of Europe.

Europeans attitude is same toward jews as before. there are pros and antis as always. if jews were insignificant number we would not hear about anti semitic incidents in Europe. Muslims were not racial toward jews historically, but were anti to their way of belief. which most of the Islamic conflict, it's about quarrel over faith. "me right, you wrong" etc

 

[Jibril]

are you suggestig omar is a thief?...etc as they recieve the ownership of the land same way as the british. by sword.

Muslims never controlled the day to day lives of the people like the Byzantines did. Jerusalem was ruled by a foreign entity (byzantines) with foreign laws. In the case of the British, they were foreigners who took over from an empire (Ottoman) that followed the same Islamic based laws as the Palestinians. Thats the difference.

 

[eagleye]

Muslims never controlled the day to day lives of the people like the Byzantines did. Jerusalem was ruled by a foreign entity (byzantines) with foreign laws. In the case of the British, they were foreigners who took over from an empire (Ottoman) that followed the same Islamic based laws as the Palestinians. Thats the difference.

irrelevant pointers you make. they (Byzantines, Muslims and the British) are all foreign entities who came from their homeland to conquer the homelands of others. in this case, of the jews.

 

[Muslim Woman]

I seek refuge in Allah (The One God) from the Satan (devil) the cursed, the rejected

With the name of ALLAH (swt) -The Bestower Of Unlimited Mercy, The Continously Merciful


Assalamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh (May the peace, mercy and blessings of Allah be upon you)



&&&

I did not read the whole thread....hope i m not repeating the links here........food for thought kay:


Liberating America From Israel


Paul Findley

http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/liberatingamerica.shtml


Nine-Eleven would not have occurred if the U.S. government had refused to help Israel humiliate and destroy Palestinian society.


Few express this conclusion publicly, but many believe it is the truth.



I believe the catastrophe could have been prevented if any U.S. president during the past 35 years had had the courage and wisdom to suspend all U.S. aid until Israel withdrew from the Arab land seized in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.




The U.S. lobby for Israel is powerful and intimidating, but any determined president — even President Bush this very day — could prevail and win overwhelming public support for the suspension of aid by laying these facts before the American people...




Carter’s Book is Work of a True Patriot


Paul Findley -- Chicago Tribune


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/c hi-0702070020feb07,0,5388645.story?coll=chi- newsopinioncommentary-hed



At the age of 82, Jimmy Carter entered the lion's den.



With the publication of his latest book, "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid," he did what a patriot would do: rally Americans to vigorous debate of a critical issue that affects our future. He deserves a hero's praise.



Instead, he has been attacked and defamed ... I also experienced firsthand what Carter now faces.



Toward the end of my 22-year tenure in Congress, I spoke in favor of Palestinian rights and was critical of Israeli policies of Palestinian land confiscation and Jewish-only settlements on Palestinian lands.


These actions were counter to American policy and values.

About the author



Paul Findley, a U.S. Congressional Representative from Illinois 1961-83, is the author of three books related to the Middle East, including They Dare to Speak Out:
People and Institutions Confront Israel’s Lobby (1985)
and, most recently, Silent No More: Confronting America’s False Images of Islam.

He resides in Jacksonville, Illinois. This essay was issued on Sept. 12, 2002.

 

[eagleye]

you actually hijacked the thread.

a "honor among thieves" that cause for solidarity between aforementioned in your post and the Palestinians.

the facts of the matter remains. as Romans, Byzantines and British were as well the Muslims are subjugators of the land.