Rebels' dilemma after Basayev death

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Rebels' dilemma after Basayev death


After the death of Chechen rebel commander Shamil Basayev in an apparent Russian attack, a look at how Chechnya's conflict may develop.

Basayev's death leaves a gap in Chechnya which no other living rebel figure could fill.

Most Russians would not want to see that gap filled in their worst nightmares, associating him forever with the dead children of Beslan. In the words of Russian President Vladimir Putin, his violent death was "deserved retribution" for the school attack.


Izvestia newspaper writes that his "triumphant face" was to most Russians the terrifying symbol of a bloody era.


"There is simply no justification for what happened in the school and I know that Shamil Basayev regretted it in his heart and soul," says Akhmad Zakayev, foreign minister in the Chechen rebels' unrecognised government.


"Yet I do not believe that history will remember Shamil Basayev primarily for Beslan, but for his 15-year fight against Russian occupation."


Separatists particularly prefer to remember Basayev as the man who recaptured the capital, Grozny, from under Moscow's nose in August 1996.
Shaken by the sheer audacity and skill of that assault, Russia withdrew from Chechnya within months.


The question now is: could the rebels recapture it today?
A decade on, things look very different - not least the state of Russia's security forces.
 
His death was a terrible shock for everyone but trust me the rebels are now as strong as before and continue carrying out attacks everyday. There's even a new video that appeared on the rebels' official website where they attack a group of Russian terrorists and destroy them. And don't worry Insha Allah we'll recapture Grozny and we'll get back every inch of our land.
 
Killing children in a school is resistance? That is the only sad thing about this situation
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He didnt kill the children - the fact that some children did die, he offered to go on trial for that and even hand himself over to the russians (which was a certain death sentence)

i advise you look at his military career (which was even admired by the US militarily) rather than this unfortunate mistake for which he offered to pay with his life
 
Still glorifying this child killing, child terrorizing pig? Basayev could have chosen any number of ways to fight Russia, he chose the cowards way. He took the most vulnerable hostage, children. 1200 children and adults taken hostage on the first day of school. 344 killed, 186 of them children.

There is no legitimate defense of using children as pawns in a dangerous and violent situation to achieve what you want. No legitimate defense of a pig that would put children in harms way to make demands.

The first thing they did was shoot fathers in front of their children. Terrorized the children. Refused food and water, children were forced to resort to drinking urine.

He was a murderer and a terrorizer of children, the world is a better place without him.
 
SilentObserver said:
Still glorifying this child killing, child terrorizing pig? Basayev could have chosen any number of ways to fight Russia, he chose the cowards way. He took the most vulnerable hostage, children. 1200 children and adults taken hostage on the first day of school. 344 killed, 186 of them children.

There is no legitimate defense of using children as pawns in a dangerous and violent situation to achieve what you want. No legitimate defense of a pig that would put children in harms way to make demands.

The first thing they did was shoot fathers in front of their children. Terrorized the children. Refused food and water, children were forced to resort to drinking urine.

He was a murderer and a terrorizer of children, the world is a better place without him.
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Did you ever notice the common factor of all those that praise child killers and terrorists. :mad:
 
"Yet I do not believe that history will remember Shamil Basayev primarily for Beslan"

Yes it will, except in extremist circles.
 
Chechnya said:
He didnt kill the children - the fact that some children did die, he offered to go on trial for that and even hand himself over to the russians (which was a certain death sentence) i advise you look at his military career (which was even admired by the US militarily) rather than this unfortunate mistake for which he offered to pay with his life
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Taken from Wikipedia:

It was at this point that unknown persons, probably members of the Russian special forces, fired the Shmel RPO flamethrowers at the school's roof (a total of nine empty disposable tubes were later found on the rooftops of the nearby apartment blocks), setting parts of the school ablaze. A chaotic battle broke out as the special forces sought to enter the school and cover the escape of the hostages after the task force members blew further holes in walls to allow hostages to escape. In addition to the special forces, army and Interior Ministry troops engaged, there were armed helicopters, and at least one tank (two T-72s and one T-80 from Russia's 58th Army but under FSB tactical command), as well as several BTR armoured personnel carriers.

Witnesses and journalists saw two T-72 tanks advance on the school that afternoon, at least one of which fired several times. Afterwards, the Russian government defended the use of tanks and other heavy weaponry, arguing that it was used after surviving hostages escaped from the school. However, this contradicts the eyewitness accounts, as many hostages were seriously wounded and could not possibly escape by themselves and many were kept by the terrorists as human shields, particulary in the area of the school cafeteria.

Many local civilians also joined in the chaotic battle, having brought along their own weapons, as the Russia's regular conscript soldiers reportedly fled as the fighting began.[9] The civilians claimed that the local police also panicked.[10] At least one of the armed volunteers is known to have been killed.

By 15:00, two hours after the assault began, Russian troops claimed control of most of the school. However, fighting was still continuing in the grounds as evening fell, including a lone machine-gunner still firing from an upper floor, and three hostage-takers who were located in the basement along with a number of hostages. They were eventually killed, along with the hostages they were holding.

During the battle, a group of thirteen hostage-takers broke through the military cordon and took refuge nearby; reportedly, the group included two women who tried to pass themselves off as medical personnel. Several hostage-takers were believed to have entered a two-story additional building nearby; the building was destroyed by tanks and flamethrowers around 21:00, according to the Ossetian committee's report.[17]



Sounds to me like both groups are to blame. Basayev deserves to die if he willingly put the lives of hundreds of innocent people at risk, but so do the Russians, who used flamethrowers and tanks. And then there's the matter of George Bush saying America would give "support in any form" to Russia. That didn't do much to discourage an attack on the school, did it? Then again, there's a lot I don't know about this. I shall continue researching this conflict.
 
Yes of course the Russian lives are more precious than ours... Let's not talk about Chechnya let's keep talking about Beslan until our tongues fall out. I mean after all the Chechens only have been having a war that's been going on for 13 years but but Beslan lasted 1 whole day! That's terrible!!! And 80% of Chechnya's capital city was completely destroyed but who cares since in Beslan 1 building was destroyed! And after all the Chechens only lost 300 000 people among them 45 000 children but the Russians lost 300 people can you believe that?!?! The children at Beslan just had to stay in a building for a few hours before being killed by their own "soldiers". Chechen children have been seeing nothing but bombings, seeing their relatives dying, their mother raped in front of them and their fathers being shot in the head in front of them. I mean who the hell cares about all of that?? They're just Chechens anyways... Just some terrorist, islamist, extremist muslims...
 
No amount of killing done to the Chechens by the Russians justifies the killing of people who probably didn't even know of or support the Russian government's actions in Chechnya. If the rebels attack Russian government, that's fine, and I myself would be happy to jump in and help. But attacking innocent students crosses the line. That makes you almost as bad as the Russians--almost as bad, but as you haven't killed as many civilians, not quite.
 
The rebels captured the school but they never killed anyone in it. Those are lies made up by Russians so that people hate Chechens which is in my opinion working perfectly so far. Putin ordered himself for everyone in the building to be killed with no exceptions. The Russian soldiers used flame throwers which were forbidden by the Geneva Convention and shot from the roof of a building next to the school. There are people who were there that day that claim this aswell. The rebels captured the school and all they asked for was for the genocide in their country to be stopped. But Putin proved what a barbaric dog he was by killing his own people. All the rebels wanted to do was put Putin in a position where he would be forced to negotiate they were sure that he would negotiate they never expected it to finish how it did. Now if the Russians enjoy killing their own people then that's not our problem...
 
salaam
both sides share the blame.although obviously the russians bungled it badly from the start, and agree that it was them who killed most of the hostages,saying it was unintentional would just be like saying basayev didnt know he was putting children in the crossfire because he didnt think the russi's would do whatever they did.

still , basayev's death does'nt really make it worse for the chechens. they had several prominent field commanders like basayev , and they quarelled among each other to the point where they actually hampered the jihad.
with many of them now out of the picture though, the chechens can unite behind a single figure (i think its kadyrof now, im not sure so correct me if im wrong)since the reason the masses resent the invaders(murder,rape,...etc) remain.
 
Whatever happened in Beslan was tragic, we need to focus on how we can bring an end to this war that has killed so many Chechens. Does anyone have any solutions? Why wont Russia just allow the Chechens to form their own Nations?
 
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What needs to happen in Chechnya is to convince the Russian people that the conflict from the viewpoint of the Chechen people is one of national liberation. When Boris Yeltsin was president, the Russian people were very much against continued violence in Chechnya, but after the apartment bombings and other incidents, the Russian people were convinced it was a conflict against terrorism. Somehow, the Chechen people must seperate themselves from "Islamic jihad", and return to the slogan of national liberation and independence.
 
alcurad said:
salaam
both sides share the blame.although obviously the russians bungled it badly from the start, and agree that it was them who killed most of the hostages,saying it was unintentional would just be like saying basayev didnt know he was putting children in the crossfire because he didnt think the russi's would do whatever they did.

still , basayev's death does'nt really make it worse for the chechens. they had several prominent field commanders like basayev , and they quarelled among each other to the point where they actually hampered the jihad.
with many of them now out of the picture though, the chechens can unite behind a single figure (i think its kadyrof now, im not sure so correct me if im wrong)since the reason the masses resent the invaders(murder,rape,...etc) remain.
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I agree with you that Basayev was a little responsible and he even offered to go on any international trial and answer for his mistakes but to say that it's entirely his fault, now that's wrong. And actually his death was a big blow but Chechnya isn't 1 man it's a nation of brave warriors ready to die for their country and religion. And there were no arguments over who is going to take his place because before his death he said he had chosen a someone who will take his place and who is exactly like him but still a little young. And Kadyrov isn't the guy since he is a traitor who works with the Russians and all the Chechens hate him so him taking Basayev's place would be a little shocking lol.
 
Keltoi said:
What needs to happen in Chechnya is to convince the Russian people that the conflict from the viewpoint of the Chechen people is one of national liberation. When Boris Yeltsin was president, the Russian people were very much against continued violence in Chechnya, but after the apartment bombings and other incidents, the Russian people were convinced it was a conflict against terrorism. Somehow, the Chechen people must seperate themselves from "Islamic jihad", and return to the slogan of national liberation and independence.
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Nah it's not Islam that's the problem it's Putin and his controlling of the media. When Yeltsin was president the only good thing about him was that on Russian TV he allowed people to show what they want and it was free. That's why people showed the horrors that happened in Chechnya and saw videos of their soldiers dying in battle. So people were shocked and knew what was happening that's why they wanted to stop the war. But now Putin controls the media VERY strictly and before showing something on TV or writing an article in the newspaper it has to go throught the FSB ( Russian secret services) who would decide if it would be allowed. And putin has people believe that the war is over and that everyone is happy and the country is being rebuilt. That's why people in Russia don't want to stop the war since they think there is no war. Otherwise there is another part who know the war is still going on but they imagine Chechens as savages so they want them all to be killed and then a small number of people who actually know what's happening and try to stop the war and you see what happens: they get killed or thrown in jail. That's also another problem cause there are people who know what's heppening but they're too scared to say anything against Putin cause they could end up dead or in jail.
 
The Chechen people who have been involved in rebellion are unjustified in their attacks. How about that school full of innocent children? Were they spared from this civil war? :cry: :'(

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius :shade:
 
SATalha said:
Why wont Russia just allow the Chechens to form their own Nations?
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Such a naive question.... :) it is very uncommon for big nation (especially those considering themselves to be "empire") to let little nation chose their faith. Russia has lost a lot of land after 89. They don't to loose any more - not in such a important places like Caucasus.

Chechen - to be frank i feel...-let's say-... uneasy about your signature, about this part with drowning people in blood :embarrass
 

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