Rebels' dilemma after Basayev death

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Such a naive question.... :) it is very uncommon for big nation (especially those considering themselves to be "empire") to let little nation chose their faith. Russia has lost a lot of land after 89. They don't to loose any more - not in such a important places like Caucasus.

Chechen - to be frank i feel...-let's say-... uneasy about your signature, about this part with drowning people in blood :embarrass


First of all what you explained is correct and about my signature it means that if the Russians kill us all then let them die along with us:D
 
Seeing posts that glorify people like Shamil Basayev, to me, are as disgusting as suggesting we should award the Medal of Honor to James Barker.
 
The rebels captured the school but they never killed anyone in it.
Lies made up by shameless liars.
The very first thing those heartless b******s did was kill the fathers of children, right in front of the children.

You make them out to be some kind of saints. They captured and took hostage a school full of small children. They killed fathers in front of children. They terrorized these children, refused them food or water. When the shooting did begin, they shot hostages as they ran away.

The words of one of the children at Beslan;
So the terrorist said,"If you don't keep quiet, I'll kill this man". A terrorist with a beard pointed his gun at the man's temple... and shot him.
No killing huh? Not a terrorist? Imagine the emotional and mental scarring done to this child. The terrorist has made the child feel as if he was to blame for the man's death.

Another child, a small girl says;
There was one girl, her mobile rang. She hadn't thrown it away... so they shot her.

A young boy takes a cameraman on a tour;
It was here that they killed my dad. Then they took his body... and threw it out the window.

You can try and cover up with these lies, but the world knows the truth. It is disgusting and revolting that anyone would try to find justification for what those dogs( Basayev and his thugs) did to those children.

For those of you that can, view the documentary entitled "Children of Beslan".
 
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What needs to happen in Chechnya is to convince the Russian people that the conflict from the viewpoint of the Chechen people is one of national liberation. When Boris Yeltsin was president, the Russian people were very much against continued violence in Chechnya, but after the apartment bombings and other incidents, the Russian people were convinced it was a conflict against terrorism. Somehow, the Chechen people must seperate themselves from "Islamic jihad", and return to the slogan of national liberation and independence.

It is silly to think the Chechen people should separate from Jihad.

It should fight jihad correctly and not kill non-combatants.

"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you..."
 
I think most of the fighting in that rigion involves the Army anyways. The Beslan incident was on-off. The appartment bombings i believe where the FSB, anyone that wants to investiage the bombing is silenced or killed.
 
It is silly to think the Chechen people should separate from Jihad.

It should fight jihad correctly and not kill non-combatants.

"And fight in the way of Allah those who fight you..."

The reason I said the Chechens should distance themselves from "Islam jihad" is because they were accomplishing alot on the PR front during the time of Boris Yeltsin. The Russian people overwhelmingly viewed the Chechen conflict as a war for independence. After the introduction of foreign "jihad" fighters and the acts of terrorism that brought with it, the Russian people changed their views. Now they believe Russia is fighting a war against terrorists and baby killers. The only way to stop that mentality is to regain the moral high ground. Unfortunately, Beslan has given Russia the moral high ground for the forseeable future.
 
A member of the Russian parliamentary commission for investigation of the hostage crisis in Beslan has published a report confirming that the Russian terrorist organization FSB had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school with children and that no child was ever killed by the Mujahideen.



The Novaya Gazeta newspaper published the report titled "Beslan: Hostages' Truth" by Urii Saveliev, a scientist specializing in physics of explosions. The author reported that the first two blasts in the school, which killed most of the hostages, were caused by the explosive projectiles fired from the 5-th floor of the building across the street. In other words, it proves the information provided by Mujahideen that the blood bath in the Beslan school was caused by a deliberate action of the Russian secret service FSB.



The report is based on the testimonies of the hostages, photo and video materials, blasts researches and calculations.



The first blast on the garret of the seized school was caused by a Russian shot from the 'Smel'(Bumblebee) rocket flamethrower at 01:03 pm local time. The second blast occurred in 22 seconds and was caused by the explosion of the assault grenade also launched by Russian invaders. Russian killers stormed the building almost immediately after the blasts.



The explosion caused a conflagration, which started at approximately 1:05 p.m. local time. An order to extinguish the fire was given almost two hours later at 3:10. The Russian terrorists shot at all the rooms of the school with shells, tanks and other weapons. Most of the hostages, who were able to escape from the building were killed by Russian shots from the outside of the school. Saveliev reports more than 300 hostages were transferred from the gym to other rooms, about 110 of them were killed by the Russian shooting.



The report is 700 pages long and includes over 300 photos.



The siege of Beslan's School Number One began on September 1, 2004. Three days afterwards the armed FSB gangs stormed the school killing 371 people, including 31 Muahideen who sacrified their lives protecting children from Russian terrorist murderers .

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2006/08/28/5434.shtml


There are even Russians who claim that the FSB killed the children in the school. And just a few days ago I read that the deputy of the State Duma from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Jury Ivanov claimed that he had information which proved that the FSB were responsible for the death of the children.
 
A member of the Russian parliamentary commission for investigation of the hostage crisis in Beslan has published a report confirming that the Russian terrorist organization FSB had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school with children and that no child was ever killed by the Mujahideen.



The Novaya Gazeta newspaper published the report titled "Beslan: Hostages' Truth" by Urii Saveliev, a scientist specializing in physics of explosions. The author reported that the first two blasts in the school, which killed most of the hostages, were caused by the explosive projectiles fired from the 5-th floor of the building across the street. In other words, it proves the information provided by Mujahideen that the blood bath in the Beslan school was caused by a deliberate action of the Russian secret service FSB.



The report is based on the testimonies of the hostages, photo and video materials, blasts researches and calculations.



The first blast on the garret of the seized school was caused by a Russian shot from the 'Smel'(Bumblebee) rocket flamethrower at 01:03 pm local time. The second blast occurred in 22 seconds and was caused by the explosion of the assault grenade also launched by Russian invaders. Russian killers stormed the building almost immediately after the blasts.



The explosion caused a conflagration, which started at approximately 1:05 p.m. local time. An order to extinguish the fire was given almost two hours later at 3:10. The Russian terrorists shot at all the rooms of the school with shells, tanks and other weapons. Most of the hostages, who were able to escape from the building were killed by Russian shots from the outside of the school. Saveliev reports more than 300 hostages were transferred from the gym to other rooms, about 110 of them were killed by the Russian shooting.



The report is 700 pages long and includes over 300 photos.



The siege of Beslan's School Number One began on September 1, 2004. Three days afterwards the armed FSB gangs stormed the school killing 371 people, including 31 Muahideen who sacrified their lives protecting children from Russian terrorist murderers .

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2006/08/28/5434.shtml


There are even Russians who claim that the FSB killed the children in the school. And just a few days ago I read that the deputy of the State Duma from the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, Jury Ivanov claimed that he had information which proved that the FSB were responsible for the death of the children.

Oh but of course....the brave "mujahideen" died protecting the children from Russian terrorists! That is why they took over the school...to protect the children! We've all been fooled to believe the brave "mujahideen" intended those children harm! Thanks for this. This changes everything.

Okay, can we get back to reality now?
 
Oh but of course....the brave "mujahideen" died protecting the children from Russian terrorists! That is why they took over the school...to protect the children! We've all been fooled to believe the brave "mujahideen" intended those children harm! Thanks for this. This changes everything.

Okay, can we get back to reality now?


Yes they did capture the school what they planned was they scare Putin and ask him to stop the war he agrees and everybody goes home. They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.
 
Yes they did capture the school what they planned was they scare Putin and ask him to stop the war he agrees and everybody goes home. They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.

The "mujahideen" rigged the gym with explosives. Seems they planned much more than to "scare" Putin. As for your stories from "Beslan mothers", perhaps you would do better to hear from the children themselves. Anyone who watched "Children of Belsan" has a pretty good idea what went on inside that school. Revisionist history isn't going to help the Chechen cause. They must come to term with what occurred in their name and attempt to win back the moral high ground.
 
The "mujahideen" rigged the gym with explosives. Seems they planned much more than to "scare" Putin. As for your stories from "Beslan mothers", perhaps you would do better to hear from the children themselves. Anyone who watched "Children of Belsan" has a pretty good idea what went on inside that school. Revisionist history isn't going to help the Chechen cause. They must come to term with what occurred in their name and attempt to win back the moral high ground.


They put explosives, filmed it and had the video passed to Putin to scare him. And the mothers of Beslan organisation is of mothers who were at Beslan and lost their child there and they accuse Putin and the FSB for the murder and say that the Chechens aren't the ones who should be pointed at. And about the movie Children of Beslan I haven't seen it and don't intend on wasting my time watching propaganda films which have one goal: bring hate against Chechens and it's working perfectly well. When the appartment bombings happened Putin accused the Chechens and at the time everyone thought it was Chechens who did it and now the truth came out and everybody knows those were explosions organised by the FSB and the truth about Beslan will come out at some point too. Sooner or later it will come out just like the appartment bombings.
 
They put explosives, filmed it and had the video passed to Putin to scare him. And the mothers of Beslan organisation is of mothers who were at Beslan and lost their child there and they accuse Putin and the FSB for the murder and say that the Chechens aren't the ones who should be pointed at. And about the movie Children of Beslan I haven't seen it and don't intend on wasting my time watching propaganda films which have one goal: bring hate against Chechens and it's working perfectly well. When the appartment bombings happened Putin accused the Chechens and at the time everyone thought it was Chechens who did it and now the truth came out and everybody knows those were explosions organised by the FSB and the truth about Beslan will come out at some point too. Sooner or later it will come out just like the appartment bombings.

I might buy the propoganda excuse if the "Children of Belsan" documentary was produced by a Russian company, but of course it wasn't.

As for blaming Putin and the Russian military for the disaster at Beslan, I agree the decisions made during that event were horrible on the part of the Russian authorities. There is a pattern of really bad decisions when it comes to anti-terrorist operations by the Russian special forces. I'm sure they do share part of the blame for the death toll. However, the terrorists inside that school were murdering people from the moment they entered.
 
Yes they did capture the school what they planned was they scare Putin and ask him to stop the war he agrees and everybody goes home. They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.

What a pack of disgusting, deceitful, wretched lies.

You know full well that they killed children's fathers immediately when they took the school.

It was here that they killed my dad. Then they took his body... and threw it out the window.

It is disgusting and sick that anyone would attempt to justify this savage attack on children. You should be ashamed.

You can try and cover up with these lies, but the world knows the truth. It is disgusting and revolting that anyone would try to find justification for what those dogs( Basayev and his thugs) did to those children.

You keep mentioning lies told by people about what happened as if it were truth. Why don't you do as I suggested a number of times and see what the children that were held hostage have to say? Do you have the courage to face the truth? You know that children will tell the truth. So, do you have the courage to hear what they say? Or are you afraid of what you might learn?

If you develop the courage, remember the name, "Children of Beslan".
 
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They never went there with the intention in killing anybody. It's at the moment when Putin ordered for the building to be attacked and kill everyone in it

I dont think Putin ordered the Russians to "kill everyone in it" [the school].

But the point is, he shouldn't have even been in position to do it, the Chechens stepped out of bounds by storming a school filled with children.

the mujahideen helped people escape. The mothers of Beslan organisation claimed themselves aswell that the mujahideen picked them up from the floors and helped them escape from there.

I would like to see documentation of that.
 
BESLAN MOTHERS: PUTIN IS CULPABLE

MOSCOW – Shamil Basayev is Russia's Osama bin Laden. Yet as Beslan prepares to mark the one-year anniversary of the school siege he engineered, many of the victims' mothers are increasingly laying blame for the September massacre not on Mr. Basayev, but on Russian authorities.

They are stoking controversy by demanding that top leaders, including President Vladimir Putin, stay away from this week's service to commemorate the 331 victims, half of them children, who perished in the Sept. 1-3, 2004, terrorist attack. Their accusations have been fueled by leaks from two still-incomplete investigations, and evidence presented at the ongoing trial of the sole surviving terrorist, Nurpashi Kulayev. Both have raised sharp doubts about the official version of events.

Witnesses at Mr. Kulayev's trial have testified that Russian security forces, using flame-throwers and tanks against a school holding more than 1,000 hostages, may have been responsible for many deaths.

Others have fingered corrupt officials and inept police officers for allowing the terrorists to drive across a heavily guarded border and seize a school in the center of a large town.

"We want all those who are responsible to face justice," says Roza Sidakova, a spokesperson for the Beslan Mothers group. Ms. Sidakova lost her 9-year-old daughter when security forces stormed the school on Sept. 3.

The mood of disbelief is not confined to victims' families. A countrywide poll conducted last month by the Moscow-based Public Opinion Foundation found that only 15 percent of Russians expect the official investigation, headed by Alexander Torshin, the deputy speaker of parliament's upper house, to get to the bottom of what happened in Beslan.

Another 20 percent think the commission will discover the truth, but keep it secret.

"The reaction of the mothers of Beslan is a manifestation of the profound distrust many Russians are feeling toward the authorities," says Yevgenia Albats, a political scientist at the Moscow Higher School of Economics. "This is because the authorities have covered the truth about those events of a year ago in a thick layer of lies, which contaminates everything."

The official version holds that on Sept. 1, 32 terrorists linked to Basayev, a Chechen warlord, drove in a hijacked military-style truck from the neighboring republic of Ingushetia, evaded many police checkpoints, and occupied Beslan School No. 1. They took about 1,200 children, parents, and teachers hostage in the school's gym, which the terrorists festooned with makeshift explosives.

On the third day of the crisis, one of the terrorists' bombs accidentally detonated, prompting security forces to launch an ill-prepared 10-hour assault that succeeded in saving most hostages.

According to officials, security troops took all possible precautions to protect civilians, but hundreds of casualties occurred when the gym's roof, set alight by terrorist bombs, came crashing down.

But this picture is challenged by mothers - and many witnesses at Kulayev's trial - who say there were at least 50 attackers, many of whom escaped. The terrorists made use of weapons and supplies that had been prepositioned in the school, suggesting an inside job, they said. Kulayev testified that the first explosion resulted when a Russian sniper killed one of the hostage-takers who was holding down a bomb-detonator with his foot.

Kulayev's trial has brought stunning revelations. Russian Deputy Prosecutor General Nikolai Shepel was forced to admit that "Shmel" flame-throwers were used in the assault, after local mothers found several launch tubes and submitted them to the court. Mr. Shepel insisted the weapons fired only fuel-air explosives that day, rather than the incendiary napalm grenades they are also designed to use, and thus could not have caused the gym fire that killed most of the hostages.

But Stanislav Kesayev, who heads an investigation set up by North Ossetia's parliament, says that traces of napalm were found by medical examiners.

"As the days go by, we see that the testimony of Kulayev and other information coming out at the trial is producing a very different view of what happened," he says.

Under pressure from the mothers, Russian authorities also admitted that two T-72 tanks fired several cannon rounds into the school during the battle on Sept. 3, but say they did not shoot at the gym where hostages were held.

Mr. Kesayev says that his local probe, which Russian officials have denounced as "illegal," has been unable to establish who was in command of the security operation at Beslan. "We can't even say who was giving the orders," he says. "There is a general feeling here that Kulayev will be convicted, and that will be the end of it."

The head of the Moscow-based parliamentary investigation, Mr. Torshin, told the newspaper Izvestia this week that the Beslan mothers are acting from emotions and "not being logical" in their accusations against Russia's leadership. "The fact that this open trial [of Kulayev] is taking place shows that the authorities are not interested in keeping secrets," he said.

For Mr. Putin, whose popularity has been sliding for several months, the challenge posed by the Beslan mothers has been an embarrassment. The Kremlin last week countered by inviting the women to talk with Putin in Moscow on Friday, in the midst of the Beslan memorial services.

Susanna Dudiyeva, head of the mothers' group, says the women resent the timing of the summons, but, "We shall go to Moscow, overcoming our pain and offense," she told the online newspaper Gazeta.ru. "We will ask our questions, and we expect to hear answers."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0829/p06s01-woeu.html
 
A few days before the second anniversary of the Beslan massacre, a Russian lawmaker and explosives expert said Monday, August 28, that Russian forces had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school before the hostage-takers were able to detonate their bombs.



"The first explosion in the gymnasium of the Beslan school on September 3, 2004, was the result of a shot from a rocket-propelled grenade," Yury Savelyev, a member of the parliamentary commission investigating Beslan, told Echo Moscow radio, reported Agence France-Presse (AFP).



This could have been fired by "the security forces," he said. "This could have been an accidental shot, or it could have been ordered."



The report comes a few days before the second anniversary of the tragedy in which 331 people, including 186 children, died in the September 1-3 siege at a school in the southern Russian town.



Most of the deaths occurred during the chaotic rescue attempt on the last day.



Chechen commander Shamil Basayev, who was recently assassinated by Russian forces, had claimed responsibility for the hostage-taking but blamed the bloodbath on President Vladimir Putin.



"The Kremlin bloodsucker destroyed and injured 1,000 children and adults, having given the order to storm the school for imperialist ambitions," he daid after the carnage.



"The storming was initiated by Russia's security services."



Savelyev has produced a 700-page report based on the testimonies of the hostages, photo and video materials, blasts researches, and calculations.



He concluded that the disastrous battle on September 3 was not sparked by the explosion of two bombs from the hostage-takers, as most officials insist, but two powerful rocket-grenades.



One of the two rockets was a highly destructive incendiary device that set fire to the gymnasium, leading to many of the casualties, said the MP.



Many more died when other parts of the school came under fire from tanks, rocket-propelled grenades and other heavy weapons, he added.



The rockets were fired from the 5-th floor of the building across the besieged schoolhouse, Savelyev averred.



A majority of the parliamentary commission has decided in contrast to Savelyev that the bloody battle was triggered when two bombs set by the hostage-takers exploded, forcing special forces to launch an all-out military assault.



The head of the commission, Parliament's upper-chamber vice-speaker Alexander Torshin, said last year that the hostage-takers set off the initial explosions and that the rocket-propelled grenades could not have started the deadly gymnasium blaze.



The commission, however, has since repeatedly delayed publishing its final report.



Savelyev insisted that "not one of the official versions is supported by science."

http://kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/2006/08/29/5438.shtml


Now you've got the Chechens side who claim that the children were killed by Russian forces, you've got the Beslan Mothers organisation who were at Beslan, you've got people like this Yury Savelyev who even give scientific proof and Russian politicians like Jury Ivanov. Now even the Russians themselves are accusing their government for the murder of the children.
 
assalaamu alaykum,

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr, ameen.

may Allah swt raise up a generation of mujahadeen capable of carrying the banner of tawhid in chechnya, ameen.

may Allah swt inspire the muslims to help their brothers and sisters suffering in lands such as chechnya in any way they can, ameen.

may Allah swt grant the muslims strength and courage as well as the patience to withstand the evils of the enemies of Allah swt until such a time that the ummah is able to establish true islam and establish the khilafa, AMEEN!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
 
A few days before the second anniversary of the Beslan massacre, a Russian lawmaker and explosives expert said Monday, August 28, that Russian forces had fired rocket-propelled grenades at the school before the hostage-takers were able to detonate their bombs.

Bombs? I do hope you don't mean the ones in the gym. You know, the gym where all the innocent hostages were kept? The hostages that were taken to "scare" Putin. Those hostages.

If the rebels wanted to scare Putin, why not take some of HIS men hostage? The civilian population is not the enemy. If I know that, there's no way a seasoned veteran rebel leader doesn't. Me thinks they wanted to scare the civilians. Me thinks their real purpose was to do what the U.S. did in WWII to the Japanese--incur so many civilian casualties that the civilians will demand the government surrender.

Strange...In class, we discussed an Ashanti proverb: One falsehood spoils a thousand truths. That seems to ring true, as I'm becoming against the Chechen rebels because of Beslan. Not their call for independence, just the way they do it. Like the U.S.'s way of "liberating" people.
 
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assalaamu alaykum,

may Allah swt forgive the mistakes of Shamil Basayev and grant him the status of a martyr, ameen.

may Allah swt raise up a generation of mujahadeen capable of carrying the banner of tawhid in chechnya, ameen.

may Allah swt inspire the muslims to help their brothers and sisters suffering in lands such as chechnya in any way they can, ameen.

may Allah swt grant the muslims strength and courage as well as the patience to withstand the evils of the enemies of Allah swt until such a time that the ummah is able to establish true islam and establish the khilafa, AMEEN!

Assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah


Ameen brother. May Allah ease the suffering of every muslim.
 

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