Queen Rania : Muslim Women dont have to wear veils

[Muezzin]

We're veering away from the subject, dudes.

Apropos, Muslims are allowed to take Non-Muslims as friends, but not as close allies or protectors.

 

[MTAFFI]

the hijab is compulsory, not voluntary and like all compulsory acts it is the duty of the state to make sure it is complied with to maintain public good.

So then you are, in fact, saying that it is mandatory in Islam that the woman wear a veil or Hijab even if they dont want to? This to me does seem oppressive

as regarding iran and its president, he has certainly committed kufr (acts of disbelief) and it might be that scholars have given takfir on him (declared him non muslim) but i am not aware of it.

Have the scholars declared this on the Jordanian King?

regarding not taking the disbelievers as our awliyah, on a personaly day to day basis i discussed this verse with a christian at work today. she agreed it was correct and why?

because we both agreed that although we should be friendly towards those not of our faith we could not take the disbelievers as our close allies and friends and we differ very much on most other things.

To me this is sad imsad, I do not base my friendships and alliances on religion, I base them on the person and the persons actions. All religion is based on one thing, God or a higher power, the difference is how you worship, which to me is not enough to make me not befriend someone. How can you expect to be treated equally by those not of your religion if you look only at their religion and say regardless of the type of person you are I am not your friend because you dont share my beliefs? This sort of thought process provokes violence and eventually spreads hatred, because if you are not my friend what are you? An enemy. In the same respect, do you like everyone that is Muslim because they are a proclaimed Muslim? If so what about those in Iraq who kill their Muslim brothers and sisters daily?

Anyways your opinion is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but maybe one day try and look past your religion and maybe see people as a brother or sister in humanity, regardless of how you worship we all have that in common.

 

[Dawud_uk]

So then you are, in fact, saying that it is mandatory in Islam that the woman wear a veil or Hijab even if they dont want to? This to me does seem oppressive



Have the scholars declared this on the Jordanian King?



To me this is sad imsad, I do not base my friendships and alliances on religion, I base them on the person and the persons actions. All religion is based on one thing, God or a higher power, the difference is how you worship, which to me is not enough to make me not befriend someone. How can you expect to be treated equally by those not of your religion if you look only at their religion and say regardless of the type of person you are I am not your friend because you dont share my beliefs? This sort of thought process provokes violence and eventually spreads hatred, because if you are not my friend what are you? An enemy. In the same respect, do you like everyone that is Muslim because they are a proclaimed Muslim? If so what about those in Iraq who kill their Muslim brothers and sisters daily?

Anyways your opinion is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but maybe one day try and look past your religion and maybe see people as a brother or sister in humanity, regardless of how you worship we all have that in common.

i certainly see people as my brothers and sisters in humanity, but that is not the same as my brothers and sisters in islam.

in a simular fashion it is obligatory on men to keep the beard, but regarding modest dress it is compulsory on both genders but what each gender finds attractive is different and hence the differences in what must be covered.

and yes takfir has been made on the king of jordon as well as other rulers in the muslim lands.

Abu Abdullah

 

[S_87]

So then you are, in fact, saying that it is mandatory in Islam that the woman wear a veil or Hijab even if they dont want to? This to me does seem oppressive



.

some naturists say not being able to walk around naked too is oppressive...

 

[MTAFFI]

i certainly see people as my brothers and sisters in humanity, but that is not the same as my brothers and sisters in islam.

in a simular fashion it is obligatory on men to keep the beard, but regarding modest dress it is compulsory on both genders but what each gender finds attractive is different and hence the differences in what must be covered.

and yes takfir has been made on the king of jordon as well as other rulers in the muslim lands.

Abu Abdullah

alrighty then

 

[MTAFFI]

some naturists say not being able to walk around naked too is oppressive...

i would say that is a little different

 

[Dawud_uk]

i would say that is a little different

to you but the principle is the same, it is where you draw the line.

 

[Jibril]

I think some brothers are misinterepreting what the Quran means by "friend". It does not mean it in the sense of your buddy whom you play bball with, or you coworker whom you lunch and hang out with. It means "protector", meaning muslims must not depend on Christians or Jews for their vital needs. In essence all the verse is doing is mandating self-sufficiency for the Muslim community. I think thats an admirable thing and ultimately is good for everybody not only muslims.

So yes we as Muslims CAN and SHOULD befriend non Muslims. After all how are we supposed to convey the message if we don't befriend people?

 

[MTAFFI]

I think some brothers are misinterepreting what the Quran means by "friend". It does not mean it in the sense of your buddy whom you play bball with, or you coworker whom you lunch and hang out with. It means "protector", meaning muslims must not depend on Christians or Jews for their vital needs. In essence all the verse is doing is mandating self-sufficiency for the Muslim community. I think thats an admirable thing and ultimately is good for everybody not only muslims.

So yes we as Muslims CAN and SHOULD befriend non Muslims. After all how are we supposed to convey the message if we don't befriend people?

well put

I still dont understand though, why a Muslim wouldnt consider coming to a Christian or Jew for vital needs.. Just because we have different religions doesnt mean a Christian or Jew wouldnt help a Muslim because of his/her religion. I would help almost anyone who came to me in need if i could

 

[MTAFFI]

to you but the principle is the same, it is where you draw the line.

It is like comparing apples to oranges though, both fruit but totally different

 

[Jibril]

well put

I still dont understand though, why a Muslim wouldnt consider coming to a Christian or Jew for vital needs.. Just because we have different religions doesnt mean a Christian or Jew wouldnt help a Muslim because of his/her religion. I would help almost anyone who came to me in need if i could

Well you have to understand the history of Islam inorder to fully grasp why. In a nutshell, the earliest Muslim community was intertwined, and one would say reliant on their pagan relatives for their security, shelter, food etc etc. As a result this reliance was leveraged to pressure Muslims to recant their faith, some eventually did. The ones who didn't were subjected to terrible persecution. Anyway, the Muslims struggled for years to gain self-sufficiency and eventually succeded. But they have never forgotten this lesson from their earlier days. I hope you understood.

 

[MTAFFI]

Well you have to understand the history of Islam inorder to fully grasp why. In a nutshell, the earliest Muslim community was intertwined, and one would say reliant on their pagan relatives for their security, shelter, food etc etc. As a result this reliance was leveraged to pressure Muslims to recant their faith, some eventually did. The ones who didn't were subjected to terrible persecution. Anyway, the Muslims struggled for years to gain self-sufficiency and eventually succeded. But they have never forgotten this lesson from their earlier days. I hope you understood.

I understand and respect that.

We do live in a different day though, I dont think anyone would make you recant your faith anymore for being reliant on another individual. I will not ask you to explain anymore, because I understand that, that is just a part of your faith, it is just to bad (from my standpoint) that that is how it has to be.

 

[Jibril]

I understand and respect that.

We do live in a different day though, I dont think anyone would make you recant your faith anymore for being reliant on another individual. I will not ask you to explain anymore, because I understand that, that is just a part of your faith, it is just to bad (from my standpoint) that that is how it has to be.

Keep in mind that this self-sufficiency is really geared toward the community not neccesarily the individual. No one is saying a muslim can't accept aid or help from a non Muslim during a time of crisis. Its a general principle regarding the community is all.

 

[Cognescenti]

What? You have lost me... what that suppose to mean?

I realize this may be unislamic, but as a non-muslim I am struck by her beauty. The world is better, from an aesthetic standpoint if she does not wear a veil, just as it would be a shame to listen to Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony with earplugs in.

 

[MTAFFI]

I realize this may be unislamic, but as a non-muslim I am struck by her beauty. The world is better, from an aesthetic standpoint if she does not wear a veil, just as it would be a shame to listen to Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony with earplugs in.

LOL

Her beauty should be considered a gift from God, why cover up what a wonderful thing God has created.

(I am not really into Beethoven as much as Bach or say Brooks and Dunn)

 

[Karimeldib]

All relationships should be under religion, it is the most important thing and the only thing that will last.
We can help people who are not muslims, visit them, be kind to them and so on, we must also be fair to them and give them their rights, but they should not be our friends (not protectors, that's another issue). This friendship even if it lasts in this world it will not in the day of judgement Allah says: (Friends on that Day will be foes, one to another; except the Righteous).
As for making takfir, this is very very dangerous, you can not just give takfir like this, you cant even just repeat this stuff like this. What proof do you/these people have for making takfir?

 

[Jibril]

I realize this may be unislamic, but as a non-muslim I am struck by her beauty. The world is better, from an aesthetic standpoint if she does not wear a veil, just as it would be a shame to listen to Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony with earplugs in.

Hey I think she's pretty but don't overblow it,..she's not THAT pretty.

 

[MTAFFI]

All relationships should be under religion, it is the most important thing and the only thing that will last.
We can help people who are not muslims, visit them, be kind to them and so on, we must also be fair to them and give them their rights, but they should not be our friends (not protectors, that's another issue). This friendship even if it lasts in this world it will not in the day of judgement Allah says: (Friends on that Day will be foes, one to another; except the Righteous).
As for making takfir, this is very very dangerous, you can not just give takfir like this, you cant even just repeat this stuff like this. What proof do you/these people have for making takfir?

So your view is that I, as a Catholic, am going to hell? I too worship Allah or God as I call him, so why would I? Do you think that God does not know that I love him, and that just because I chose a different type of worship that he will send me to hell?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

We went from veil to beauty? Stay with the topic please!!! For goodness sakes!

 

[KAding]

We're veering away from the subject, dudes.

Apropos, Muslims are allowed to take Non-Muslims as friends, but not as close allies or protectors.

*pokes Muezzin in the eye*

You silly Muslims .