Muslim clerics push for flags to be flown on mosques

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Servant of the nation? The mosque is on the nations land. A nation which opened its arms towards immigrants who wanted a better life and for many Australia gave it to them.

So what if it is? What happened to freedom of expression? It would be absolutely ridiculous to ask a mosque of all places to affliate itself with a single nationality. It isn't an 'Australian' mosque, it is simply a mosque where people of all nationalities gather because they all have something in common, which is their faith.

Majority of the Muslims work hard within their respective communities, and have adopted the country they immigrated to as their home. Why do certain people keep on thinking it is necessary for Muslims to 'prove' their 'loyality'?

If you want to make a mosque fly the national flag then make every other building on the nations land fly one, too. It's absolutely ridiculous. You're stifling peoples identities.
 
So what if it is? What happened to freedom of expression? It would be absolutely ridiculous to ask a mosque of all places to affliate itself with a single nationality. It isn't an 'Australian' mosque, it is simply a mosque where people of all nationalities gather because they all have something in common, which is their faith.

Majority of the Muslims work hard within their respective communities, and have adopted the country they immigrated to as their home. Why do certain people keep on thinking it is necessary for Muslims to 'prove' their 'loyality'?

If you want to make a mosque fly the national flag then make every other building on the nations land fly one, too. It's absolutely ridiculous. You're stifling peoples identities.

The goverment is not asking for them to do so! Muslims clerics are!
 
Does anyone else get the sense that the integration of muslims in all parts of the world is, and will continue to be, a massive issue for our generation?
One of the main clashes will be muslims using the quran to justify something, which will mean absolutely nothing to a non-muslims or its government.

Yes...I completely agree. That is just going to make the locals really angry after a bit. Ironically, it is the long-time residents of the host country who are accused of being culturally sensitive to Islam...yet immigrant Muslims, in many cases, seem to be unwilling to make even the smallest gestures toward the cultural standards of the host country.

This suggestion by Dr. Ali seems harmless and might well go a long way toward healing rifts. There is no need to put the flag on the mosque itself..just deed a small part of the property to some trusted member of the mosque and put the flag there. Where is the harm in that? It is called public relations. :smile:
 
So what if it is? What happened to freedom of expression? It would be absolutely ridiculous to ask a mosque of all places to affliate itself with a single nationality. It isn't an 'Australian' mosque, it is simply a mosque where people of all nationalities gather because they all have something in common, which is their faith.

Majority of the Muslims work hard within their respective communities, and have adopted the country they immigrated to as their home. Why do certain people keep on thinking it is necessary for Muslims to 'prove' their 'loyality'?

If you want to make a mosque fly the national flag then make every other building on the nations land fly one, too. It's absolutely ridiculous. You're stifling peoples identities.

Gee...I don't know. Perhaps it is those with attitudes like yours? The Austrailians have newspapers and some even know how to read. Do you think it is possible they might have drawn inferences from what happened in Britain...home grown terrorism?

You are so primed to suffer an insult you failed to understand th epoint of the original article. This was an idea offered by a Muslim leader in Australia.
 
Gee...I don't know. Perhaps it is those with attitudes like yours? The Austrailians have newspapers and some even know how to read. Do you think it is possible they might have drawn inferences from what happened in Britain...home grown terrorism?

You are so primed to suffer an insult you failed to understand th epoint of the original article. This was an idea offered by a Muslim leader in Australia.

Usually, i'm one of the first people to back gestures like these but not on this one. I think Keysar Trad got it right. A mosque is indeed a place of worship, where everybody is seen to be equal and the last place where division over nationality should be created unnecessarily.
 
Yes...I completely agree. That is just going to make the locals really angry after a bit. Ironically, it is the long-time residents of the host country who are accused of being culturally sensitive to Islam...yet immigrant Muslims, in many cases, seem to be unwilling to make even the smallest gestures toward the cultural standards of the host country.
Really? I think you'll find such Muslims are in the minority. You're also assuming that all Muslims in Western states are immigrants, which is untrue.

This suggestion by Dr. Ali seems harmless and might well go a long way toward healing rifts. There is no need to put the flag on the mosque itself..just deed a small part of the property to some trusted member of the mosque and put the flag there. Where is the harm in that? It is called public relations. :smile:
Okay. If the leaders of certain mosques choose to fly flags, that is their prerogative.

It's still extremely stupid how many justify the entire Muslim community having to 'prove' their loyalty because of the actions of a few violent scumbags. Such displays of fealty should be a choice, rather than a requisite, as certain people on this thread have implied. Is living in peace, working hard and paying your taxes not enough to 'prove' your loyalty?

Still, I'm writing this as a British citizen. I've not seen the Union Jack flown outside churches, synangogues, hindu temples, mosques or gurudwaras, and I don't think such flag waving is necessary for the followers of those religions to prove their loyalty to the UK. Maybe the situation is different in Australia.
 
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Really? I think you'll find such Muslims are in the minority. .

Fair enough. I hereby state I should have said, to be cautious, "some cases" instead of "many cases". Still, public perception is what it is. You can't will it away.

Okay.

It's still extremely stupid how many justify the entire Muslim community having to 'prove' their loyalty because of the actions of a few violent scumbags. Such displays of fealty should be a choice, rather than a requisite, as certain people on this thread have implied.

I agree that peace-loving Muslims (in the West) are "unfairly" tarnished by a violent few (that is if we don't count sympathies for the attackers :thumbs_do ).....but it does no good to simply stomp one's feet.

Let's say I cant get a date because I have hair growing out of my ears. Do I blame women because of their insensitivity to the natural effects of testosterone? After all, its not my fault. Or do i pluck out the hairs?

Which strategy is likely to succeed? Confrontation or compromise?
 
Usually, i'm one of the first people to back gestures like these but not on this one. I think Keysar Trad got it right. A mosque is indeed a place of worship, where everybody is seen to be equal and the last place where division over nationality should be created unnecessarily.

I understand the point...but it does occur to me that division over religion doesn't make all that much sense either.
 
Fair enough. I hereby state I should have said, to be cautious, "some cases" instead of "many cases". Still, public perception is what it is. You can't will it away.
I don't remain silent in the face of falsehood, no matter what the public thinks. Clarifying misconceptions can and does change public perception. Once upon a time the public perceived the black race to be inferior to the white race. You wouldn't ridicule or dub 'politically correct' the people who challenged that perception would you?

I agree that peace-loving Muslims (in the West) are "unfairly" tarnished by a violent few (that is if we don't count sympathies for the attackers :thumbs_do ).....but it does no good to simply stomp one's feet.
So now I'm stomping my feet? Did anyone ever tell you you have a bad habit of belittling people you disagree with? And what's with the speech marks?

If you knew me as a person, you'd know that I'm very well integrated into British society, thank you very much, without the need to fly a Union Jack from my trousers. You've simply assumed that because I'm Muslim, I must be some sort of stubborn beardy bloke who refuses to fit in, sympathises with terrorists and whinges a lot without actually doing anything.

Let's say I cant get a date because I have hair growing out of my ears. Do I blame women because of their insensitivity to the natural effects of testosterone? After all, its not my fault. Or do i pluck out the hairs?

Which strategy is likely to succeed? Confrontation or compromise?
You do what you want - you make your own choice. You might decide to pluck out the hairs. You might decide that you want to find someone who accepts you as you are without passively aggressively blaming society in the process. You might decide to wear earmuffs. Whatever floats your boat.

A better example would have been, 'should the entire Italian-American community have to prove they are law-abiding citizens because of the actions of the Mafia?', in which case I would have answered 'of course not. If they wish to prove their loyalty by joining the Army or the police force, that's their prerogative, not a requirement of citizenship'.

As I've said above, if people wish to fly flags, that's their prerogative. I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied. Like I said, I've not seen British churches, synagogues, hindu temples, gurudwaras or mosques flying the Union Jack, nor would I expect them to. If the owners of such buildings decide to fly flags, fair enough, it's their choice.
 
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I don't remain silent in the face of falsehood, no matter what the public thinks. Clarifying misconceptions can and does change public perception. Once upon a time the public perceived the black race to be inferior to the white race. You wouldn't ridicule or dub 'politically correct' the people who challenged that perception would you?.

Full speed ahead on clarifying misconceptions. More power to you. I reject your analogy to racism, however. That is only superficially vaild.


So now I'm stomping my feet? Did anyone ever tell you you have a bad habit of belittling people you disagree with? And what's with the speech marks?

If you knew me as a person, you'd know that I'm very well integrated into British society, thank you very much, without the need to fly a Union Jack from my trousers. You've simply assumed that because I'm Muslim, I must be some sort of stubborn beardy bloke who refuses to fit in, sympathises with terrorists and whinges a lot without actually doing anything.

I made no such assumption. In fact, it was not my intent to suggest that you were guilty of the behavior. I did say "one's" feet, which was a rare display of grammatical correctness for me. If I meant you, I should have said "your", correct? If I was unclear, I apologize.

What does "whinges" mean?


A better example would have been, 'should the entire Italian-American community have to prove they are law-abiding citizens because of the actions of the Mafia?', in which case I would have answered 'of course not. If they wish to prove their loyalty by joining the Army or the police force, that's their prerogative, not a requirement of citizenship'.

As I've said above, if people wish to fly flags, that's their prerogative. I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied. Like I said, I've not seen British churches, synagogues, hindu temples, gurudwaras or mosques flying the Union Jack, nor would I expect them to.

Good example with the Italian-American thing. Note that those biases were largely erased through integration into the broader culture...to a alesser extent through public information campaigns.

If Muslims in Australia chose to reject the good Doctor's advise..so be it. I am merely stating I think he may be onto something.

BTW ...re this:

I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied


Who exactly implied that???
 
Full speed ahead on clarifying misconceptions. More power to you. I reject your analogy to racism, however. That is only superficially vaild.
How so?

I made no such assumption. In fact, it was not my intent to suggest that you were guilty of the behavior.
I apologise for being oversensitive in that case.

I did say "one's" feet, which was a rare display of grammatical correctness for me. If I meant you, I should have said "your", correct? If I was unclear, I apologize.
I misunderstood you. Thank you for the clarification.

What does "whinges" mean?
I believe 'whinge' is slang exclusive to Britain, and means 'to whine' :)

Good example with the Italian-American thing. Note that those biases were largely erased through integration into the broader culture...to a alesser extent through public information campaigns.
This is true. People tend to forget that the majority of Muslims are pretty well integrated though.

If Muslims in Australia chose to reject the good Doctor's advise..so be it. I am merely stating I think he may be onto something.
That's fine. I think he may be onto something too. However, I've (probably overzealously and hyperbolically) expressed my opinion that it should not be a requirement.

BTW ...re this:

I'm just saying I don't think that such displays should be a requirement of living in a democratic state, as certain people here have implied


Who exactly implied that???
It was unfair for me to use the word 'impied'. Rather, I inferred from ManchesterFolk's message that he regarded it as a requisite. I probably misunderstood however.
 
.....................

What does "whinges" mean?..........

I
hello,
One got the impression from reading your posts that you knew it all.

any how
[SIZE=-1]whinge intr.v. Chiefly British. , whinged , whinging , whinges . To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.

Ma'asalaama (it means "go in peace", so pleace don't start a crusade, jihad or holy war against me)
[/SIZE]
 
well... all mosques in Malaysia have Malaysian flags flown in the compound area along with state flag and malaysian muslim flag (green flag with white crescent on the middle)...

I've seen Malaysian flags being flown on the churches and temples compound too...
 
i think it would be inappropriate for any religious building to fly a national flag.
in islam, which takes a strong stand against nationalism, it would be even more so.

You've hit the nail on the head, completely agree. We can't promote nationalism in anyway as Muslims and the only loyalty we have is towards Allah(SWT).
 
You've hit the nail on the head, completely agree. We can't promote nationalism in anyway as Muslims and the only loyalty we have is towards Allah(SWT).
:sl:

Funny how some people keep repeating this Mantra over and over ad infinitum. I have, now, heard it so many times that it makes my old head spin. (they are waiting for a khilafah before they protect the countries that protect them)

One hindu loving mullah type called those of us in Pakistan army --that repelled the night time sneak attack on Pakistan in 1965-- secular dogs

:w:
 
Hang on a minute, isnt 'loyalty' only supposed to be to Allah and Islam. We dont have to show loyalty to a country, especially a non-muslim one. I dont know about these people, but to be quite honest, it doesnt surprise me.
 
Woodrow said:
I believe for a Mosque to fly a national flag would be wrong.

......it gives the impression that the Mosque is a servent of the nation.


You don't understand the issue. Some mosques around Sydney fly the Lebanese flag.

Some Muslims suggested that the Australian flag ought to be flown as well.

-
 

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