Is there gender equality in Islam?

[Woodrow]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

In my non-Islam days I used to think the ruling about 2 woman witnesses was very demeaning to women and was a way of saying that women had only half the value of men.

However, it looking at it from a logical view point this is actually a means of protecting woman and helping assure they they do not get cheated in any transactions.

Often in life it is an advantage to not be a witness for some things. In Islam Woman are empowered with the ability to NOT be a witness if being a witness would harm them. And they can do so without ever needing to lie. They just not need to provide a second witness if they desire not to.

Sadly, humans have twisted this around culturaly and have mis-used the ruling. So when we see it misused, we are seeing a culture following it's own bias and calling it Islam.

 

[wilberhum]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

No, because the chances of women losing their memory is higher than men's. So the addition of an extra female witness is a brilliant way to reduce the chances of losing a testimony. A bit like having backup memory card. : )



no because medical evidence has it that more men suffer from mental disorders such as schizophrenia than women. They also have a shorter life span. And are more likely to die in accidents than women. So Allah swt with His Wisdom has created the perfect balance in the duties of both sexes according to their strengths and vunerabilities.



lol I'm sure there's plenty of them. But a rule is neither logical or applicable if it's based on the assessment of individuals in the minority. In studies carried out involving large groups of women (from all walks of life), it has been distinctly proven that women suffer more from memory related conditions than men. And one condition which no woman escapes is the menopause. (One of the reasons why women may suffer loss of memory at some point).


peace.. I need my sleep :uhwhat

The question is "How come there no gender equality in Islam?"
What, to me is important, is that you have confirmed that there is not gender equality.
You may think what you state are reasons, but I conceder them excuses. Which ever they are, I have no concern. What is important to me is equality. In my opinion any law that makes any deviation based on gender, religion, or race, is immoral. At least that is the direction my “Moral Compass” points.

 

[Talha777]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

The question is "How come there no gender equality in Islam?"
What, to me is important, is that you have confirmed that there is not gender equality.
You may think what you state are reasons, but I conceder them excuses. Which ever they are, I have no concern. What is important to me is equality. In my opinion any law that makes any deviation based on gender, religion, or race, is immoral. At least that is the direction my “Moral Compass” points.

Without religion you cannot have a moral compass (and without Islam the compass is broken). The fact of the matter is that men and women are not equal, our different biologies and psychologies confirm that. A Just God, whom Allah most definitely is, will make equitable, not equal, standards for men and women. You didn't mention age, but I'm sure you agree the law can't be completely the same for children and adults. In most Western countries, the law ensures that children are given shelter and a whole lot of other benefits by their parents and guardians, but at the same time they are not allowed to have a license until age 16 or allowed to vote until age 18. These laws may seem discriminatory and unequal, but they are designed to address the different needs of different age groups. Similarly with the Islamic prescriptions for men and women.

 

[wilberhum]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Talha777

Without religion you cannot have a moral compass

You obviously need a dictionary.
[PIE]Moral:
1. involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave
2. derived from personal conscience: based on what somebody's conscience suggests is right or wrong, rather than on what rules or the law says should be done
3. according to common standard of justice: regarded in terms of what is known to be right or just, as opposed to what is officially or outwardly declared to be right or just[/PIE]
Notice that there is mo mention of religion. It is your misconception that only theists have morals. Of course religion can be a source of morals but not the only source.

without Islam the compass is broken

So 80% of the world works of a broken compass. At least in you unbiased opinion, Right?

The fact of the matter is that men and women are not equal, our different biologies and psychologies confirm that.

And those factors, in my opinion, should have nothing to do with legal matters. But thanks again for confirming that there is not gender equality in Islam.

You didn't mention age,

That would be correct. I think some laws need to differ based on age. So we have a point of agreement. But still the thread is about gender equality and has nothing to do with age. :-[

 

[Snowflake]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

The question is "How come there no gender equality in Islam?"
What, to me is important, is that you have confirmed that there is not gender equality.
You may think what you state are reasons, but I conceder them excuses. Which ever they are, I have no concern. What is important to me is equality. In my opinion any law that makes any deviation based on gender, religion, or race, is immoral. At least that is the direction my “Moral Compass” points.

Hi Wilberhum,
Did you notice that I was replying to Kading with regards as to why Islam calls for two women witnesses in financial matters. I'll remind you that it is in case one forgets. My post consisted of findings that prove women are more forgetful than men and why. I think that more than sufficiently proves there is wisdom behind the ruling.

However, it may not prove there is gender equality in the way you want that fits your views of gender equality, but it proves that responsibilities are assigned to each gender according to their mental, physical and emotional characteristics.


I'd also like to point out that in regards of two female witnesses there exists another logic. Which is that if anyone should try and dispute the testimony of a single female witness, there will be another female to give evidence on her behalf. It's not uncommon for unscrupulous men to take advantage of women of a lone female.

Therefore when it comes to rights, both genders are given the equal protection to prevent miscarriage of justice. That is equality.

There are also matters in which the testimony of single female is sufficient.

"And those who launch a charge
against their spouses, and have (in support)
no evidence but their own -
their solitary evidence can be received."
The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 24, Verse 6

"Oh you who believe!
When death approaches any of you,
(take) witnesses among yourself when making bequests."
The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 5, Verse 106

^any witness, male or female - because there is no chance of a woman being taken advantage of. Two females only in dealing with financial transactions.


Finally, no matter what your views are you cannot disagree that men and women are different, mentally, emotionally and in physical endurance. Therefore in that respect two genders can never be equal and as muslims we happily accept that as being natural. And what we are even more happier with is that despite the differences islam has given both genders equal amounts of rights in line with their requirements. Now that is equality.

If you insist on inserting the word 'gender' into equality then ask WWF why they don't allow wrestling between men and women. Isn't that gender inequality? oh:

 

[wilberhum]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Muslimah_Sis
I would also like to thank you for also confirming that there is not gender equality in Islam.

Wilber

 

[Snowflake]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

lol nvm, it's no skin off my nose. We are more than happy with the fair approach for both genders in Islamic Laws and that's all that matters. If you don't see it like that then that's your prerogative. I'm out.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Salaam/peace

Muslimah_Sis
I would also like to thank you for also confirming that there is not gender equality in Islam.

Wilber

&&

i did not read the whole thread. The following articles may help u to remove ur misconception.



Myth: In Islam, Women are Inferior to Men

http://thetruereligion.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=24

who is dearer to Allah, men or women?

This question is emphatically answered in the Qur'an (translation),





[4:124] If any do deeds of righteousness - be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Paradise, and not the least injustice will be done to them.



[33:35] For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for truthful men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah's praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.



The Qur'an and Sunnah repeat over and over again that Allah only favors one person over another based on that person's awareness, consciousness, fear, love, and hope of Allah (the Arabic word is difficult to translate: Taqwa).


All other criteria are excluded: gender, ethnic group, country, ancestry, etc.



Given that Allah does not favor one gender over the other in His attention to us (and it helps to remember that Allah is neither male nor female), we can now address the differences between the genders in Islam.


First, men and women are not the same as we know.....pl. visit link.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?



Salaam/peace;


Most Common Questions asked by Non-Muslims

EQUALITY OF WITNESSES

--DR. Zakir Naik


.....There are some scholars who are of the opinion that the rule of two female witnesses equal to one male witness should be applied to all the cases.



This cannot be agreed upon because one particular verse of the Qur’an from Surah Noor chapter 24, verse 6 clearly equates one female witness and one male witness:




"And those who launch a charge
against their spouses, and have (in support)


no evidence but their own -
their solitary evidence can be received."


[Al-Qur’an 24:6]



Hazrat Ayesha (RA) hadith narrated of one witness



Many jurists agree that even one witness of a woman is sufficient for the sighting of the crescent of the moon.


Imagine one woman witness is sufficient for one of the pillars of Islam, i.e. fasting and the whole Muslim community of men and women agree and accept her witness!


Some jurists say that one witness is required at the beginning of Ramadaan and two witnesses at the end of Ramadaan. It makes no difference whether the witnesses are men or women.



Some incidents require only female witness and that of a male cannot be accepted. For instance, in dealing with the problems of women, while giving the burial bath i.e. ‘ghusl’ to a woman, the witness has to be a woman.



The seeming inequality of male and female witnesses in financial transactions is not due to any inequality of the sexes in Islam. It is only due to the different natures and roles of men and women in society as envisaged by Islam

http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm

 

[wilberhum]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Muslim Woman
Remember when you said:

There are also matters in which the testimony of single female is sufficient.

Exactly. Inequality!
Now surly it is a distortion to say there is No gender equality in Islam.
But as you and others have pointed out, there are cases where there is Not gender equality.
And that is my point.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?



Salaam/peace;

Muslim Woman
Remember when you said:

Exactly. Inequality!
Now surly it is a distortion to say there is No gender equality in Islam.
But as you and others have pointed out, there are cases where there is Not gender equality.
And that is my point.

---Islam is a practicl religion . So , there is a difference between men & women's role & responsibilities.


A husband earns & wife has every right to snatch the money from him , when she works , he has NO RIGHT to do the same ........uh NO GENDER EUQALITY ......right ? :statisfie

.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

He said certain cases. Maybe someone should clear it out. We cant change how ppl think. Its not up to us. All we can do is tell someone.

 

[wilberhum]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Salaam/peace;
---Islam is a practicl religion . So , there is a difference between men & women's role & responsibilities.


A husband earns & wife has every right to snatch the money from him , when she works , he has NO RIGHT to do the same ........uh NO GENDER EUQALITY ......right ? :statisfie

.

Practical and legal are not the same thing. :rollseyes
And yes, if he has no right to do the same, it is gender inequality. :?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

I always concider inequality bad.

let's cry for the poor Muslim men


fortunately many people don't think like u & despite the hostile media propaganda against Islam , they are becoming Muslims

& most are women:thumbs_up

 

[wilberhum]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

let's cry for the poor Muslim men


fortunately many people don't think like u & despite the hostile media propaganda against Islam , they are becoming Muslims

& most are women:thumbs_up

I have never hear a non-Muslim say they wanted to be on the short end of equality. So I would say that fortunately most people think like me.

If you like that situation, more power to you.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Yea, they dont, which is why a lot choose Islam, which are mostly women.

 

[Snowflake]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

I think there are some words which hold different definitions for different people. For instance, Wilberhum defines 'equality' in the sense that both genders must have parallel rights and responsibilities - or it's not equality.

However for me equality means that both genders have equal rights and burden of responsibility, despite the dissimilarity in their roles.

The way I see it is, that if two pieces of a jigsaw puzzle were exactly the same, they'd never fit into each other. Therefore, the differences in roles/duties of both genders compliment each other to create an effective mechanism needed to run whole communities smoothly.

If that in your terms is gender inequality - then we are happy with it. Like I said if we were 'equal' in all matters, we'd never fit as two parts of one. The differences only serve to draw us together - just like two unidentical pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Hence, what a beautiful thing 'inequality' is.

 

[aamirsaab]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?



Since biologically, and to some extent psychologically, male and female are not, how we say equal, how can any law be truely equal to both genders - if a law tried to be equal to both genders then this would be unequal to one gender.

e.g. if the law stated that male and females both get the same time off for paternity leave then this would be inequal since the mother is in most cases the child bearer (since she has to actually give birth to the child), whereas the father is the breadwinner (again, on a biological and pscyhological level).

At this particular time of a child's life, the mother holds more importance since there is an immediate psychological and biological link between mother and child. The father at this time will only have the biological link, he may very well have a psychological link but it has not been established with the child (don't forget the little guy), and will not be at the same initial level as with the mother.

Essentially, the father would be getting a free holiday when in reality he should actually be working to help raise the child in terms of being the person who purchases and earns, whilst simultaneously the mother is doing her thang (i'm not going into details, you know what a mother's job is )

So even though in this example both male and female are given equal holidays, we can see that by doing this the child would in fact suffer, as would the family as a whole since there is no income. Certain folk would argue that a women can also earn money - yes this is true, but a man doesn't give birth does he? So while he is busy not giving birth he can be out there earning money to support his family.

Islam is aware of this inherent inequality (if you can call it that) between both genders so the laws are reflected. What you see as inequality between genders is actually a misunderstanding - on face level it can be said there is no gender equality in Islam, but as you begin to analyse it and take things into consideration it is clear that this is not the case.

(p.s; this post initially was small, but turned out big. Sorry)

 

[vpb]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

If a man is allowed to have many wives and if women are equal to men, are women allowed to have many husbands as well?

what would happen if a woman marries 4 men? and she is pregnant? who is the father? and if you say that "well we could find out that with lab analysis", then do you think about 890 babies being born every 3 minutes, would have to be tested who is the father? (i'm excluding here technology issues, that the apparatus might give wrong results and also the time consume of the analysis). you could mess up somebody's life forever.


and btw i would like to see a woman digging a ditch, or put her in heavy physical work, since they want """equal rights""".
and if there is divorce do you think men should have the right equal to the woman to raise the baby, NOO, bc he's nature is not to raise babies. it's the women's right to get the baby and raise such a beatufiul creature. it does not belong to the men.

or "I want to be pregnant, i want to give birth to a child", I can'tttttt, because Allah swt gave that owner to the women, to hold a baby and feelin it grow in her stomach.

so don't look at equality in naive way. "Equal rights" is some wierd ideas that have been fed to people. Hold on and contemplate the world around you.

They have equal rights in spiritual way, but not other ways, bc depending on what you're talking about the person will have more rights.

for ex. a 20 years and 10 years old boys, who has more right to drink water first if they both are thirsty? of course the 10 years old boy, but if you look in different prespective, for example they have the money to buy the water, who has more right to keep the money, of course the 20 years old, he can keep them safer.

 

[lolwatever]

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.

where? how?

Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality? For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife. A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?

a. how would the wife know which husband the baby belongs to.
b. physiological reasons (SD's can be caused etc..)


c. there's a difference between equity and equality.

Islam puts equity between males and females. Equality is something that just doesn't even match with reality (e.g. if they are equally capable, why can't a man nurse a baby?)

tc all the best