Islamic - Jewish relations

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rebelishaulman

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From what I understand the hate between Jews and Muslims are very odd. Jews were not gased by any Muslims, yet by Hitler who professed Christian beliefs (although in no way to I even compare Christianity to him), and Muslims and Jews always worked together when facing the common enemy of Crusaders and Christian invaders. Zionism may very well have destroyed that relationship. The reason theologically I support the state of Israel today is that although the state should never have beeen created because even a Jewish majority in the state of Israel is pushing it, I must support it according to Torah law.

As long as I am under the impression that if the land of Israel is put under Arab control thousands of Jews will die, I cannot support a return to complete exile, because the Torah teaches a Jewish life can only not break the law to survive in the case of murder, idolatry and rape.

So if Israel dismantles tommorow, am I right to believe that "vigilante" justice would occur, and many Jews who were born in Israel and did not take any land would be killed?

Am I correct to believe Jews would be killed in riots?

I realize that Zionism has made the Arab people bloodthristy against the Jewish people, and although this is G-d's will, he also gives people free choice. Do you believe Jews would be safe under Palestinain control in the Holy Land?

That is the main reason I support Israel, because I have to to support the saving of Jewish life.
 
http://www.nkusa.org/Historical_Documents/NaeimGiladi.cfm

In his book, Ben Gurion's Scandals: How the Haganah & the Mossad Eliminated Jews, Giladi discusses the crimes committed by Zionists in their frenzy to import raw Jewish labor.

The Giladis, now U.S. citizens, live in New York City. By choice, they no longer hold Israeli citizenship. "I am Iraqi," he told us, "born in Iraq, my culture still Iraqi Arabic, my religion Jewish

The Jews of Iraq
by Naeim Giladi

interesting,dont you think?
 
Well it is obvious that Zionism is a godless theology which many jews today practice instead of the Torah Judaism. But the botom line is, if there is no state of Israel, then are Jews safer? It is tough to think that statement is true.
 
I would side with saladins sentiments

and be noble and honourable as he

in saying

"WE ARE NOT LIKE YOU ":thumbs_up
 
Good quote indeed, but do you think the Arab world especuially the ones so blood thirsty now because of the Zionists actions were respond in the same way? Jews innocent would be killed for sure in my mind without the state of Israels protection.
 
isnt there enough bloodshed as it is

or shall we carry the stupid american mentality

of blood for peace??
war is peace??
more soldiers and murder will bring peace??
bombs bring love???



DONT WE ALREADY SEE THE FOLLY OF WAR ,ENOUGH:skeleton:
 
this conflict started with land ,religion just got dragged in by the desecration of religious sites.I mean the burning of the Al-Aqsa by that Australian dude brought non-Arabs and Arabs together.see?
 
:thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up :thumbs_up
rebelishaulman said:
From what I understand the hate between Jews and Muslims are very odd. Jews were not gased by any Muslims, yet by Hitler who professed Christian beliefs (although in no way to I even compare Christianity to him), and Muslims and Jews always worked together when facing the common enemy of Crusaders and Christian invaders. Zionism may very well have destroyed that relationship. The reason theologically I support the state of Israel today is that although the state should never have beeen created because even a Jewish majority in the state of Israel is pushing it, I must support it according to Torah law.

As long as I am under the impression that if the land of Israel is put under Arab control thousands of Jews will die, I cannot support a return to complete exile, because the Torah teaches a Jewish life can only not break the law to survive in the case of murder, idolatry and rape.

So if Israel dismantles tommorow, am I right to believe that "vigilante" justice would occur, and many Jews who were born in Israel and did not take any land would be killed?

Am I correct to believe Jews would be killed in riots?

I realize that Zionism has made the Arab people bloodthristy against the Jewish people, and although this is G-d's will, he also gives people free choice. Do you believe Jews would be safe under Palestinain control in the Holy Land?

That is the main reason I support Israel, because I have to to support the saving of Jewish life.
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1) According to which Torah law? Torah law states that no messiah no state. so please let me know who the messiah was/is.
2) There may well be riots and killings for a time but in the end justice will prevail.
3) Jews have lived under Arab rule for years and will continue to do so. The only thing that puts the lives of these Jews in jeopardy is the state of Israel whose existance brings about a hatred for Jews.
 
1) According to which Torah law? Torah law states that no messiah no state. so please let me know who the messiah was/is.
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The Talmud says that no Jewish state should be created before the Moshiach, because the Moshiach is the one who must lead the Jews to Israel and rebuold the Holy Temple. 50% of Jews are still outside of Israel waiting to be led, and many say the Moshiach will make a "Jewish state" ie. Torah law state, but many hold that any Jewish control over the Holy Land is trying to act without G-d.

2) There may well be riots and killings for a time but in the end justice will prevail.
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If one Jewish life dies from dismantling the state of Israel, it end up being completly against jewish law to do so. That is my concern.

3) Jews have lived under Arab rule for years and will continue to do so. The only thing that puts the lives of these Jews in jeopardy is the state of Israel whose existance brings about a hatred for Jews.
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True, but the Jews have become so hated now, that they almost need Israel to protect them.

We have survived over all the empires because we remain humble and subservient to the nations so they allow us to practice Judaism. We also, must have some anti-semetic acts where we go to remind us that we are Jews and blending into the culture is not good.
 
A few lives for the cause of peace is better than hundreds for the cause of tyranny. And it isnt as if all Jews are living in peace at the moment. Jews in the rest of the world are a lot safer.
The longer the state exists the larger the cancer of hatred grows.
 
rebelishaulman said:
If one Jewish life dies from dismantling the state of Israel, it end up being completly against jewish law to do so. That is my concern.
Click to expand...

Wow. So the blood of one Jewish person is important than the blood of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians?
 
rebelishaulman said:
From what I understand the hate between Jews and Muslims are very odd. Jews were not gased by any Muslims, yet by Hitler who professed Christian beliefs (although in no way to I even compare Christianity to him), and Muslims and Jews always worked together when facing the common enemy of Crusaders and Christian invaders. Zionism may very well have destroyed that relationship. The reason theologically I support the state of Israel today is that although the state should never have beeen created because even a Jewish majority in the state of Israel is pushing it, I must support it according to Torah law.

As long as I am under the impression that if the land of Israel is put under Arab control thousands of Jews will die, I cannot support a return to complete exile, because the Torah teaches a Jewish life can only not break the law to survive in the case of murder, idolatry and rape.

So if Israel dismantles tommorow, am I right to believe that "vigilante" justice would occur, and many Jews who were born in Israel and did not take any land would be killed?

Am I correct to believe Jews would be killed in riots?

I realize that Zionism has made the Arab people bloodthristy against the Jewish people, and although this is G-d's will, he also gives people free choice. Do you believe Jews would be safe under Palestinain control in the Holy Land?

That is the main reason I support Israel, because I have to to support the saving of Jewish life.
Click to expand...

A`udhu Billahi mina Shaytanir Rajeem,

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem

Assalamu 'alaykum,

whilst in the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah(pbuh), there was great animosity and treachery between Muslims and the Jews living in Arabia, MY UNDERSTANDING was that when Islam spread throughout the world that Muslims were the PROTECTORS of Jews and Christians living in their lands.

i haven't learned yet, that it is supposed to be any different...

sadly, i would also fear for the lives of Jews in what was once known as Eretz Yisreal or Palestine. sadly, the threat seems to be from the same[well, NOT the same] Muslims who once protected the Children of Israel.

as a relatively new Muslim, i HAVE heard from MANY members of the Ummah that they believe that hatred of Jews is a requirement of a Muslim, yet i don't see it as one of the Pillars of Islam...

it would be so easy if we could just solve the problem here, but i've lost me "rose colored glasses".

MAYBE, if we removed HATE from the equasion, it would be a little easier.

we've got one Muslim brother, who appears from time to time, actually living in Israel and he usually dispells notions of alleged Jewish injustice to Muslim citizens of Israel. quite a rarity...

imagine if we all decided to behave as children of Abraham(as)!

so i believe that your fears are well founded, but i wish that it wasn't so...

:w:
 
Greetings,

If some kind of treaty was made, then the Muslims are obliged to fulfil their trust. I cannot say for sure what the outcome would be, but according to Islamic law, no life can be taken unjustly. If there was no war, then there would be no reason for a Muslim to harm a Jew. And even within a war, it is only combatants that are to be fought.

It is true that Muslims and Jews have lived together for hundreds of years, and such is the way that it should be: in peace and tolerance.

But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in Allâh. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower. [8:61]

But in today's world, there is no knowing what would happen - hostilities could occur from either side. We can only pray that each side acts according to the values and guidelines that their faiths teach.

Peace :).
 
:sl:

The behaviour, philosophy and declared manifesto of Hizb ul-Shaitan fills me with horror and dread.

I have written a small article regarding the situation of hatred that exist now, but I can't post it for fear of "takfeeris" and terror lovers. I will submit it to a member of staff for revision (or editing) to see if I'll be allowed to post it

:w:
 
i think israel should never have been created and zionism is a political movement that used religion to get its goal, just as the europeans used the zionists to establish a neo-colony in the mideast.
i think the hatred that the zionists have engendered among muslims will not go away even if the state of israel ceased to exist and sadly, it may very well never go away. it is sort ironic and sad too, because historically the jews fared so much better under muslim rule than under the christians and yet they are paying the price.
 
Malaikah said:
Wow. So the blood of one Jewish person is important than the blood of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians?
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Nope, never said that. If i support the state of Israel dismantling and a Jew dies because of it, it could be said that it is my fault. It is more responsibilty for your fellow Jews actions then the worth of blood.

If some kind of treaty was made, then the Muslims are obliged to fulfil their trust. I cannot say for sure what the outcome would be, but according to Islamic law, no life can be taken unjustly. I
Click to expand...

I was about to say, that enough Palestinians marry non-Muslims, and drink alchohol to lean me in the though process of, many do not care about Islamic law.

think israel should never have been created and zionism is a political movement that used religion to get its goal, just as the europeans used the zionists to establish a neo-colony in the mideast.
i think the hatred that the zionists have engendered among muslims will not go away even if the state of israel ceased to exist and sadly, it may very well never go away. it is sort ironic and sad too, because historically the jews fared so much better under muslim rule than under the christians and yet they are paying the price.
Click to expand...

The thing is that it has been created and we could ask ourselves, the USA should never have been created on Native American land. Well it was, now we have to find a solution.
 
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Zionism is actually an affront against Judaism. I stongly encourage all people to visit the following website of the Neturei Karta movement

www.nkuk.org

Muslims and Jews can live in peace together under an Islamic government over Palestine. If Israel is dismantled, peace will prevail, but so long as it exists, Muslims will never rest and will never lay down their arms against it, insha Allah.

Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion - the one which He has chosen for them; and that He will change (their state), after the fear in which they (lived), to one of security and peace: 'They will worship Me (alone) and not associate aught with Me. 'If any do reject Faith after this, they are rebellious and wicked. (24:55)

 
Muslims and Jews can live in peace together under an Islamic government over Palestine. If Israel is dismantled, peace will prevail, but so long as it exists, Muslims will never rest and will never lay down their arms against it, insha Allah.
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That is the problem. I have a huge amount of trouble believeing this. I think that if israel dismantled, the greatest purge of Jews since the Holocaust would occur with no soldiers to defend them. Regardless of any treaty, agreement, or Islamic law, it would occur.

And the "nkusa" well even the anti-zionist sects have excommunicated them because of there idol worshiping and because they break the Torah a lot.
 
rebelishaulman said:
The thing is that it has been created and we could ask ourselves, the USA should never have been created on Native American land. Well it was, now we have to find a solution.
Click to expand...

yes i agree.
as long as both sides continue to use violence as a solution, the problem will not get any better. one side or the other must have the courage to break the cycle of mutual retaliation/revenge and i don't see much hope.
 
I'd like to see Jews and Muslims living together in a single state - call it Israel or whatever - as long as there is equality for everyone. No more roads for Jews only, fair distribution of water resources, everyone (of age) gets the vote etc. Of course, the majority of citizens would be Arab, but that needn't be calamatous for the Jews, just as it wasn't for the whites in post-apartheid south africa.
 

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