A Question Relating to the Bible being changed

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don532

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Greetings. I know I am showing my lack of knowledge on this subject, but I really would like to know the Muslim perspective on a couple of questions I have had for a long time.

Mohammad and the Koran came to us around 622AD. This is almost 300 years after the council at Nicea.

If I am not mistaken, the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God and calls them the word of God, light and guidance, and illumination.

I think I am correct in assuming Muslims believe the scriptures were corrupted before the council of Nicea.

1. Why would the revelation given to Mohammad instruct Muslims to pay any attention to these texts, and even refer to them so highly, if they have been corrupted for hundreds of years at the time the Koran was written?

2. If the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God, why is the Bible illegal in some Muslim countries?

Thank you.
 
I am not going to get into all of this and will leave it to someone else... but I lived in a "Muslim" country and bought myself a bible from there in Arabic-- no one gave me an evil look or forbade me, or sold it to me in an ally way as an illegal purchase!... so that answers your very last Q . I hope.... Also though we know that the previous books are from (G-D) -- as it states in the Quran.. people have changed the word of G-D in it.....
فَ
وَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ يَكْتُبُونَ الْكِتَابَ بِأَيْدِيهِمْ ثُمَّ يَقُولُونَ هَـذَا مِنْ عِندِ اللّهِ لِيَشْتَرُواْ بِهِ ثَمَناً قَلِيلاً فَوَيْلٌ لَّهُم مِّمَّا كَتَبَتْ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَوَيْلٌ لَّهُمْ مِّمَّا يَكْسِبُونَ {79}​
[Pickthal 2:79] Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

There are tons of chapters that are speak of Jesus (PBUH) and that is how we know of him--
and one for Mary (SW) all by herself if you wished to read it it is number (19)--
At this stage someone else can probably answer your Q's in more details
peace!
 
I did not say or mean to imply I believed the Bible was illegal in all Muslim countries. It certainly is in some.

I also realize there are chapters in the Koran that speak of Jesus. That's not my question at all. Here it is again.

Greetings. I know I am showing my lack of knowledge on this subject, but I really would like to know the Muslim perspective on a couple of questions I have had for a long time.

Mohammad and the Koran came to us around 622AD. This is almost 300 years after the council at Nicea.

If I am not mistaken, the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God and calls them the word of God, light and guidance, and illumination.

I think I am correct in assuming Muslims believe the scriptures were corrupted before the council of Nicea.

1. Why would the revelation given to Mohammad instruct Muslims to pay any attention to these texts, and even refer to them so highly, if they have been corrupted for hundreds of years at the time the Koran was written?

2. If the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God, why is the Bible illegal in some Muslim countries?

Thank you.
 
hello....firstly i will tell u that i have no knowledge of this whatso ever....but from wat i have heard...........we(muslims) must believe that the previous books were send down by god....but no believe in them.....like believe wat they are saying is true....sure there are few things that are similar between the quran and the bible........(im guessing these few things were the ones that werent changed..)...but anywho.......yea we have to beleive that they were send to prophets before muhamed(saw)....but not believe, believe wat is said inside them.............i have also heard that a muslim person can read the bible as long as they kno that their faith in allah is strong and that they wont believe in wat is said in the bible....as u kno the bible and the books before have been changed....but than when the quran came down god promised that it will never be changed!!!!!!!!......and alhamdulillah it has not been.....as for why bible is not legal in muslim countries....all i can say is... maybe they fear that the people might believe wat is said in the bible....and yea......hope wat i have said answered ur question....again i have no knowledge but this is wat i have heard.....
anything bad i have said is from the shaytan and me and anything good i have said is from allah(swa)
 
don532 said:
I think I am correct in assuming Muslims believe the scriptures were corrupted before the council of Nicea..
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No.. some Christians before the Council of Nice believed in the prophetic message of Jesus but not his divinity!... a chapter in the Quran number 18 suret al-kahf even speaks of early Christians who were in fact like Muslims! We have posted a whole thread on Arius and other Christians who believed in the true message of Jesus before your council! Here is a story of the cave of seven sleepers that has made it to the Quran but isn't in the bible....

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/turkey/ephesus-cave-of-the-seven-sleepers.htm

don532 said:
1. Why would the revelation given to Mohammad instruct Muslims to pay any attention to these texts, and even refer to them so highly, if they have been corrupted for hundreds of years at the time the Koran was written?
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The message is from G-D corruption is from man! You certainly believe that the Torah is from Moses I assume that is what you refer to as the (OT) but do you follow its laws or do you follow the laws of the NT?

don532 said:
2. If the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God, why is the Bible illegal in some Muslim countries?

Thank you.
Click to expand...

we've already answered this one for you!

peace!
 
Last edited:
2. If the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God, why is the Bible illegal in some Muslim countries?
Click to expand...

I did not know can tell who has banned it?
 
Greetings. Thank you for your response. Although I did not review that thread, I am aware of Arius and the Arianism movement. He lived 250 - 336 AD and was a presbyter in the Church of Alexandria in North Africa. He denied the full deity of the pre-existent Son of God. That is true. That school of thought existed.

Let's assume Arius was correct, which is in accordance with Muslim belief. The Injeel which I believe is what the New Testament is called in the Koran was put together from writings which passed the tests of canonicity at Nicea in 325 AD. The Koran was written in 622 AD. The Injeel was already corrupt when the Koran was written saying it was God's word, because no Arian like writings were put into the Injeel. However, the charge of corruption of the Injeel or Torah never appears in the Koran does it? It only appears in later writings of men.


Respectfully, telling me someone bought a Bible in one Muslim country does not answer why the Bible is outlawed in some Muslim countries. I just want to know the reasoning behind such a thing.

Peace.
 
I believe I have already quoted you from the Quran of its corruption... you can do a simple search and read it for yourself, I don't have enough time to squeeze an entire doctrine into a paragraph!....
http://quran.al-islam.com/

lastly I can't deal with generalities-- I don't know which countries you are talking about? or what the reasoning is behind them banning the bible if at all? for starters no Muslim country follows Islamic laws-- so each is left to its own governmental devices!..... If you really want a bible you can always make your purchase on the Internet I can't imagine why imposing a sale in a Muslim country would make any bit of a difference either way!
 
don532 said:
Saudi Arabia comes to my mind immediately.
Click to expand...

I have lived in Saudi Arabia for four years and there was no such ban!-- I have browsed their libraries and malls... if you want to verify something best do it in person rather than a guess at the so-called bans and laws they impose and apply! We had Christian Lebanese neighbors who had their bible and their santa clause for Xmas!... I didn't see anyone coming and banning them or confiscating their bible...
peace!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:

[Pickthal 2:79] Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your patience with my lack of knowledge. So the above is the writing in the Koran which means writings in the torah and injeel are corrupted by man?

Peace
 
Here are a few verses to do with JESUS (PBUH)

Behold! Allah said: "O 'Isa! I will take thee and raise thee to myself and clear thee (of the falsehood) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject Faith, to the Day of Resurrection: then shall ye all return unto Me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. 3.55



The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was. 3.59

Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)." 3.84

That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. 4.157

We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Nuh and the Messengers after him: We sent inspiration to Ibrahim, Isma'il, Ishaq, Ya'qub, and the Tribes, to 'Isa, Ayyub, Yunus, Harun, and Sulaiman, and to Dawud We gave the Psalms. 4.163

All you need to do is go to http://quran.al-islam.com/Search/SrchHits.asp?SearchText=isa&TotalCount=28&lang=eng&Option=1&pageID=1&flag=1&ID=656

type (ISA) for Jesus and all the verses having to do with him will come up... I have in fact done it for you here... you can see clearly assertion to his prophethood and the book he was given, all denying him as the son of G-D--just by default alone you'll have to conclude the bible's corruption-- and I don't believe the old T. speaks of Jesus' divinity... in fact if you'll have anything coroborating Jesus(PBUH)' being a messanger from G-D you'll find it in the Quran not the OT...!

peace!
 
Don, I think I understand your question, and though not Muslim I've had enough conversations regarding it with Muslims to think I might be able to address your first question which it seems still hasn't been quite grasped.

As I understand it, Islam teaches (not just in the Qu'ran, but also in the hadith) that the Injil is a message given by Allah to Jesus for him to share with the Jews of his day. This is what should have been written, but the New Testament preserves a different message than that of Jesus -- blame it on Paul who started twisting things. Nonetheless the first Christians (other than those influenced by Paul) were true followers of Jesus' real message and thus were by definition followers of Islam. Sometime after that and before the council of Nicea the whole thing got corrupted. Even the writings of people like the Apostle John were changed to reflect the heresies of Paul, and other writings that should have been kept in the New Testament were scrapped by these same leaders of the church that were now no longer following Islam by heresy. So, when the Qu'ran speaks of the people of the Book as a reference to Christians, "the book" the Qu'ran is referring to is the original message of Jesus that should have been written down and that part of New Testament which was altered and scrapped by later leaders in the church. Of course it is recognized that some of the New Testament is still good and correct, but that trying to determine which parts are good and which parts are not is impossible without the original to compare it to, the best way to tell today is to compare it to the teachings of the Qu'ran. That which does not agree is bad. That which agrees is good. And that which is still undetermined is undeterminable and thus not trustworthy. The people of the book only had this book until the time of the Qu'ran, so they are given grace to submit as best as they could until a more perfect revelation is made available to them. Once they have this true message shared with them they are then accountable to how they receive it, and they need to turn away from that which has been corrupted. This latter concept when applied not to people, but to books would be reason enough for those that do outlaw the Bible to outlaw it as somethng which is haraam and harmful to those who might be misled from Allah by its false teachings.

Now, we will let the Muslim members of this board correct any concepts which I may have stated in error. Then if I have properly understood your question you will have your answer.
 
Gene-- you did well... I just can't understand why you won't cross over? G-D's hands are awaiting you...... grab hold!......
hmmmmmmmmmmmmn
peace!
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
I have lived in Saudi Arabia for four years and there was no such ban!-- I have browsed their libraries and malls... if you want to verify something best do it in person rather than a guess at the so-called bans and laws they impose and apply! We had Christian Lebanese neighbors who had their bible and their santa clause for Xmas!... I didn't see anyone coming and banning them or confiscating their bible...
peace!
Click to expand...

Greetings and thank you again. I am not guessing on this subject. I have travelled globally. We are now allowed to bring religious items relating to anything other than Islam into Saudi Arabia.
Reference:
http://www.saudia-online.com/Travelling to Saudi Arabia.htm

Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are also prohibited. These may include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols such as the Star of David, and others. Makkah and Medina hold special religious significance and only persons of the Islamic faith are allowed entry.

Maybe Saudi Arabia says one thing and does another? Surely not. Peace.
 
don532 said:
Greetings and thank you again. I am not guessing on this subject. I have travelled globally. We are now allowed to bring religious items relating to anything other than Islam into Saudi Arabia.
Reference:
http://www.saudia-online.com/Travelling to Saudi Arabia.htm

Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are also prohibited. These may include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols such as the Star of David, and others. Makkah and Medina hold special religious significance and only persons of the Islamic faith are allowed entry.

Maybe Saudi Arabia says one thing and does another? Surely not. Peace.
Click to expand...

I mis-typed my reply. That should read "we are NOT allowed to bring religious items....."
 
PurestAmbrosia said:
Gene-- you did well... I just can't understand why you won't cross over? G-D's hands are awaiting you...... grab hold!......
hmmmmmmmmmmmmn
peace!
Click to expand...

:D

I think that I am probably one of those that Allah has spoken of as kafir. I will gladly explain to you why I understand the message of Islam, but cannot accept it as a way of life to anyone who is truly open to hear another answer. However, only to those who truly want to know what does guide and motivate my life. On this board, as in my personal life, I will respect Islam even if I am not a Muslim, and therefore will not proselytize those who do not wish to listen.
 
I know you are not allowed to bring statues but I assure you our neighbors were xtians and had all their xtian items....... from crosses to santa clause to bible...... what is found on a website might not be significantly true!

peace!
 
Grace Seeker said:
:D

I think that I am probably one of those that Allah has spoken of as kafir. I will gladly explain to you why I understand the message of Islam, but cannot accept it as a way of life to anyone who is truly open to hear another answer. However, only to those who truly want to know what does guide and motivate my life. On this board, as in my personal life, I will respect Islam even if I am not a Muslim, and therefore will not proselytize those who do not wish to listen.
Click to expand...

eh what can I say------May G-D guide you to the path of the righteous!

I'll leave you with this verse!


"And hold fast, all together, by the Rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for ye were enemies and He joined your hearts in love, so that by His Grace, ye became brethren; and ye were on the brink of the Pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus doth Allah make His Signs clear to you: that ye may be guided." 3.103......


peace!
 

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