A Question Relating to the Bible being changed

[don532]

I know you are not allowed to bring statues but I assure you our neighbors were xtians and had all their xtian items....... from crosses to santa clause to bible...... what is found on a website might not be significantly true!

peace!

My experience with this is not only what is on that website. Enough said. Peace.

 

[don532]

Don, I think I understand your question, and though not Muslim I've had enough conversations regarding it with Muslims to think I might be able to address your first question which it seems still hasn't been quite grasped.

As I understand it, Islam teaches (not just in the Qu'ran, but also in the hadith) that the Injil is a message given by Allah to Jesus for him to share with the Jews of his day. This is what should have been written, but the New Testament preserves a different message than that of Jesus -- blame it on Paul who started twisting things. Nonetheless the first Christians (other than those influenced by Paul) were true followers of Jesus' real message and thus were by definition followers of Islam. Sometime after that and before the council of Nicea the whole thing got corrupted. Even the writings of people like the Apostle John were changed to reflect the heresies of Paul, and other writings that should have been kept in the New Testament were scrapped by these same leaders of the church that were now no longer following Islam by heresy. So, when the Qu'ran speaks of the people of the Book as a reference to Christians, "the book" the Qu'ran is referring to is the original message of Jesus that should have been written down and that part of New Testament which was altered and scrapped by later leaders in the church. Of course it is recognized that some of the New Testament is still good and correct, but that trying to determine which parts are good and which parts are not is impossible without the original to compare it to, the best way to tell today is to compare it to the teachings of the Qu'ran. That which does not agree is bad. That which agrees is good. And that which is still undetermined is undeterminable and thus not trustworthy. The people of the book only had this book until the time of the Qu'ran, so they are given grace to submit as best as they could until a more perfect revelation is made available to them. Once they have this true message shared with them they are then accountable to how they receive it, and they need to turn away from that which has been corrupted. This latter concept when applied not to people, but to books would be reason enough for those that do outlaw the Bible to outlaw it as somethng which is haraam and harmful to those who might be misled from Allah by its false teachings.

Now, we will let the Muslim members of this board correct any concepts which I may have stated in error. Then if I have properly understood your question you will have your answer.

Thank you, Grace Seeker. I now have a much better understanding of the Muslim perspective. Unless GS has missed something, my question has been answered. Peace.

 

[جوري]

My experience with this is not only what is on that website. Enough said. Peace.

I can't imagine what the issue is? People go to SA either for pilgrimage or for a short business trip!... what business does anyone have acting as a missionary and handing out bibles there? Do you expect a Muslim Cleric to walk into the Vatican with the Quran converting people? SA houses the two holy cities... It is highly regulated even for Muslims!

peace!

 

[don532]

I can't imagine what the issue is? People go to SA either for pilgrimage or for a short business trip!... what business does anyone have acting as a missionary and handing out bibles there? Do you expect a Muslim Cleric to walk into the Vatican with the Quran converting people? SA houses the two holy cities... It is highly regulated even for Muslims!

peace!

Please. With all due respect. I didn't say anything about handing out Bibles. I didn't say anything about missionary work. I didn't say anything about Muslim Clerics and the Vatican or converting anyone. I only wanted to know what the logic was behind why a book called a book of enlightenment in the Koran would be illegal to carry into a Muslim country.

It seems the answer as for Saudi Arabia is that the customs rules at the border, and the practices inside the country don't agree. I can accept that if that's the answer. I am not trying to be critical or disrespectful of Islam or Saudi Arabia.

Peace.

 

[NoName55]

2. If the Koran instructs Muslims to read the books of God, why is the Bible illegal in some Muslim countries?

Thank you.

hello

I own 9 + No one stopped me from buying any.

If they did ban it,they could harm people by not letting them see 100s of vesion of the same Book no 2 have the same number of books in them or exact same translations. (some books even have extra chapters and verses added while others have them missing.

I have in my possession 9 different versions including king James, Good news, Catholic version, 2 Gideon offerings and a few others. (+ dozens in eBook formats)

edit:

A Question Relating to the Bible being changed

besides you have revived a dead discussion (its been disscussed/closed)

peace


http://www.islamicboard.com/39029-question-relating-bible-being-changed-2.html

 

[Grace Seeker]

hello

I own 9 + No one stopped me from buying any.


peace

What country do you live in?

 

[wilberhum]

Do you expect a Muslim Cleric to walk into the Vatican with the Quran converting people?

Within Vatican City, no legal authority will stop you. But then you know that.

 

[don532]

hello

besides you have revived a dead discussion (its been disscussed/closed)

peace

My search of the site did not show me a thread on this specifically. Perhaps my search was flawed. I thought it would be easy to answer. I guess not.

Peace

 

[NoName55]

double post

 

[NoName55]

My search of the site did not show me a thread on this specifically. Perhaps my search was flawed. I thought it would be easy to answer. I guess not.

Peace

Greeting

I have edited my original posthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Git_(insult)

henceforth I'll try to keep out

edit:
Title of thread says:
A Question Relating to the Bible being changed
subject contains more than 1 question including "why is the Bible illegal in some Muslim countries"

 

[don532]

{79}[/RIGHT]
[Pickthal 2:79] Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.

Greetings. I'm trying to understand, not be critical. Can someone explain to me how the above says the writers of the Scriptures before 622AD changed them? What this says to me is woe unto someone that writes Scripture, says it's from Allah so that they may make money from it. Peace.

 

[Hemoo]

we muslims mainly know that the old and new testaments are altered when we compare their texts to the texts of the Quran and Sunna...

its like knowing the true thing then when somthing comes that contradict with it then you know that its wrong and that its not the real revelation of ALLAH

i can give you some examples later if you want ...

 

[NoName55]

Different Versions of the Bible
After settling in, we all began to gather around the kitchen table after dinner every night to discuss religion. My father would bring his King James Version of the Bible, I would bring out my Revised Standard Version of the Bible, my wife had another version of the Bible (maybe something like Jimmy Swaggart’s Good News for Modern Man. The priest of course, had the Catholic Bible which has 7 more books in it that the Protestant Bible. So we spent more time talking about which Bible was the right one or the most correct one, than we did trying to convince Mohamed about becoming a Christian.

Quran Has Only ONE Version - In Arabic - And Still Exists
At one point I recall asking him about the Quran and how many versions of it there were in the last 1,400 years. He told me that there was only ONE QURAN. And that it had never been changed. Yet he let me know that the Quran had been memorized by hundreds of thousands of people in its entirety, and were scattered about the earth in many different countries. Over the centuries since the Quran was revealed, millions have memorized it completely and have taught it to others who have memorized it completely, from cover to cover, letter perfect without mistakes. Today, over 9 million Muslims have memorized the entire Quran from cover to cover.

How Could This Be?
This did not seem possible to me. After all, the original languages of the Bible have all been dead languages for centuries, and the documents themselves have been lost in their originals for hundreds and thousands of years. So, how could it be that something like this could be so easy to preserve and to recite from cover to cover.

Priest Goes to the Mosque
Anyway, one day the priest asked the Mohamed if he might accompany him to the mosque to see what it was like there. They came back talking about their experience there and we could not wait to ask the priest what it was like and what all types of ceremonies they performed. He said they didn’t really do anything. They just came and prayed and left. I said: They left? Without any speeches or singing? “He said that was right.”

Priest Enters Islam!
A few more days went by and the Catholic priest asked Mohamed if he might join him again for a trip to the mosque which they did. But this time it was different. They did not come back for a very long time. It became dark and we worried that something might have happened to them. Finally they arrived and when they came in the door I immediately recognized Mohamed, but who was this alongside of him? Someone wearing a white robe and a white cap. Hold on a minute! It was the priest. I said to him: Pete? -- Did you become a ‘Moslem?’
He said that he had entered into Islam that very day. THE PRIEST BECAME A MUSLIM!! What next? (You’ll see).

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[Abu Zakariya]

Actually, neither the Qur'an or the Prophet (peace be upon him) instruct us to read the Bible.

Because of its corruption, we are forbidden to read it for the purpose of seeking guidance. Rather, if something from the Bible is related to us which doesn't go against the Qur'an nor does it confirm what is found in the Qur'an, we should remain neutral to that piece of information.

 

[don532]

we muslims mainly know that the old and new testaments are altered when we compare their texts to the texts of the Quran and Sunna...

its like knowing the true thing then when somthing comes that contradict with it then you know that its wrong and that its not the real revelation of ALLAH

i can give you some examples later if you want ...

Thank you. I think I understand that Muslims compare the Quran to the Bible, the Quran is considered the ultimate authority. My question is how does Pickthal 2:79 tell us that the Bible is corrupted? Please explain.

Peace.

 

[don532]

Actually, neither the Qur'an or the Prophet (peace be upon him) instruct us to read the Bible.

Because of its corruption, we are forbidden to read it for the purpose of seeking guidance. Rather, if something from the Bible is related to us which doesn't go against the Qur'an nor does it confirm what is found in the Qur'an, we should remain neutral to that piece of information.

I did not know that. I thought the Torat, Suhuf, Zabur and Injil were considered books of God in Islam and were menetioned specifically in the Qu'ran as sources of wisdom. Surely they are not to be ignored. I thought devout Muslims should read them, but always use the Qu'ran and the Hadith (I think I spelled that correctly) as the final authority.

 

[Hemoo]

we are ordered to believe in the original revelations sent by ALLAH (SW) of all previous books by their names like torah and injil and zabor.

not to believe in every thing that is in these books now.

because we know these books are now corupted and the coruption of them can be seen as a fact because of the many versions it have and the bad translations that have been done on this books.

besides their contradictions with each others and their contradictions with the authentic Quran and the authentic sayings of the prophet

besides you can easily see that every couple of years they release a new version of the bible with some modifications and they sell it and get a good profit every time they modify it..

so they sell what they have wrote by their hands and take the money to themselves ...

and islamic texts are complete we don't need any other text to be able to worship ALLAH and obey him ....

 

[Abu Zakariya]

I did not know that. I thought the Torat, Suhuf, Zabur and Injil were considered books of God in Islam and were menetioned specifically in the Qu'ran as sources of wisdom. Surely they are not to be ignored. I thought devout Muslims should read them, but always use the Qu'ran and the Hadith (I think I spelled that correctly) as the final authority.

These books are from God and are indeed sources of wisdom. But where are these books today? They aren't here. All we got is the Bible, which may have some parts of these original books in it, but the Bible doesn't contain the original Torah, the Suhuf of Ibrahim, the Zabur and Injil. Therefore, to read the Bible seeking guidance is forbidden because everything in the Bible isn't true. When it comes to the information found within the Bible, we confirm what the Islamic sources confirm, we deny what the Islamic sources deny and we are neutral to everything else.

 

[don532]

we are ordered to believe in the original revelations sent by ALLAH (SW) of all previous books by their names like torah and injil and zabor.

not to believe in every thing that is in these books now.

because we know these books are now corupted and the coruption of them can be seen as a fact because of the many versions it have and the bad translations that have been done on this books.

besides their contradictions with each others and their contradictions with the authentic Quran and the authentic sayings of the prophet

besides you can easily see that every couple of years they release a new version of the bible with some modifications and they sell it and get a good profit every time they modify it..

so they sell what they have wrote by their hands and take the money to themselves ...

and islamic texts are complete we don't need any other text to be able to worship ALLAH and obey him ....

Thank you for that reply. Once again, I am trying to learn and not be critical of Islam. I am starting to understand more. Please indulge me with a few more questions.

The original revelations of the torah, injil and zabor.....muslims are ordered to believe in those original revelations correct?
Ordered by whom?
Can their original revelations be known? If they are now corrupt, isn't it really only the Quran and other Islamic writings Muslims can believe in?

Thank you once again.
Peace.

 

[don532]

I think Abu Zakariya answered most of my question. One exception....from where or whom came the order to believe in the original revelations of these books?

Thank you once again for your patience.