Question For The Non-muslims

[Pygoscelis]

So its not more just with thiests, its also with atheists, is it not? Dont u think atheism has its own set of beliefs like an organized religion. regardless of what the beliefs are, u still have them. And its also looking down on people who are part of a religion. At least with some atheists who have dogmas of their own.

There are no atheist beliefs. Not a single universal belief between all atheists. Not even all atheists believe there is no God. Some just lack the belief that there is one. Subtle but important difference that forms the divide between "strong" and "weak" atheism.

Many atheists are humanists, but certainly not all are. Some are Satanist. Some are into eastern philosophies such as Taoism. Many many atheists are simply atheists with no adopted philosophy of life, prefering to develop their own.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Being an atheist necessarily entails believing that people who are adherents of theistic religions are wrong. That doesn't give anyone an excuse to be rude to people who believe in god, though.

That depends on the theology and behaviour of the theist in question. If the religion is causing them to behave badly, I think it is perfectly appropriate to respond accordingly.

I would never burst into a mosque or church where people are worshiping in peace.

But I quite enjoy toying with Jehova's Witnesses and Mormons who keep coming to my door and ringing my bell (even though I've told them before not to return). I treat them like telemarketers. I have fun with them.

 

[Pygoscelis]

But as its claimed that religion is the cause of all world problems. If everybody was atheist, do u really think the world would be a better place?

Religion is not the cause of all the world's problems. The root cause is often something else and then religionis brought in as a tool to justify and amplify the problem. If religion didn't exist, people would just find some other tool to use in this way, like nationalism, etc.

What about the Soviet Union? They were not theists, they were atheists with their own set of ideologies.

Quite right. Stalinism wasn't based on religion at all. Good example. Note though that it wasn't based on atheism either (nor was it based o communism, though it claimed to be). It was based on that set of ideologies you refered to.

So can I blame atheism for all wars?

I don't think it has happened yet that people have gone to war in the name of and for the cause of atheism. There simply aren't enough atheists to make that happen, and even amongst atheists there are few who wish the eradication of all religion, and even fewer who would consider it something to risk life and limb to eradicate.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Mostly it exists because it fulfils many human emotional needs. I'll list a few.

1. It answeres the unanswerable. Many people don't like to not know things.

2. It gives people a sense of control of their lives (pray for good harvest). This is how a lot of supersticions get started.

3. It gives the downtrodden hope of a better life to come.

4. It gives victims a sense of eternal justice. It is hard for many to accept that bad people will sometimes get away with doing bad things. It is much more comfortable to believe that they will be caught and punished by the devine.

5. It programs people to behave as the ruling elite want them to. Social control is a very big force behind religion.

6. It gives people a sense of identity and communion. People like to belong to groups. This is another group to belong to. And it usually comes with a set of outgroups to scorn and look down on.

7. It gives people pride via associaton. Much like how people do this with spots teams. The team they cheer for wins (or "will" win) and they feel like they have acomplished something great (even though they weren't even in the stadium).

8. It justifies the otherwise unjustifiable. Religion has been used to sell just about every kind of attrocity you could think of.

There's just a few off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more.

Note that though all of these explain the popularity of religions none of them give any credence to any specific religion being truth.

Of course, all of these things could be true about many various religions, and probably are about many, but it wouldn't preclude the possibility that there is still a religion that is also a valid expression of the nature and character of God.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Dont u think theres a reason why people feel the need for it? Why they feel they need something to look upto? Its kinda silly to say humans made it up. Its a natural feeling. Every human has it, whether they surpress the feeling or not.

 

[wilberhum]

Dont u think theres a reason why people feel the need for it? Why they feel they need something to look upto?

Pygoscelis gave a good list.

Its kinda silly to say humans made it up.

Why, we make up silly stuff all the time.

Its a natural feeling. Every human has it, whether they surpress the feeling or not.

Every Human? I think not. I think it is a natural feeling and most people have it. That has nothing to do with whether or not it is correct.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Did u not believe in one sometime in your life?

 

[wilberhum]

Did u not believe in one sometime in your life?

Is that a question to me? I'm an agnostic that thinks god probably exists.
But:

That has nothing to do with whether or not it is correct.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

^Lol, yea it was to you.

 

[Akil]

I have pondered this in depth because I would say twice; I was close to taking shahada. But I did not for a few specific reasons.

Firstly, I believe all theistic religion are more or less close minded

Second, I believe a lot of what is seen as Islam today is bidah (innovation) based on certain (mostly Arabic) cultural practices.

Thirdly there are even some things in the Holy Quran and a lot of things in so-called authentic hadith I disagree with, which is how we come back to the whole close minded deal.

I believe in the tawhid of God. Furthermore I don’t believe God is not a personified being, more like the Tao of the Chinese or the Brahman of the Hindi (both religions which contained gods and could be seem as polytheistic, but in both religions these gods were allusions of the truth whereas the Tao/Brahman/Godhead is the creator, sustainer and truth itself.)

I personally believe that each religion, way of life (deen), or spiritual path has some wisdom and a lot of baggage and I believe by studying all religions I can learn from them all and avoid all or most of the baggage.

 

[- Qatada -]

36 years of believing that Jesus did die on the cross and rose from the dead 3 days later keeps me from accepting Islam.

Hey.


But if you truely believe that Muhammad peace be upon him is God's final messenger, and you know that the Qur'an is truely the Criterion - then you should step forward towards Allaah and He will come to you at speed.

The Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: Allah the Almighty said:

I am as My servant thinks I am (1). I am with him when he makes mention of Me. If he makes mention of Me to himself, I make mention of him to Myself; and if he makes mention of Me in an assembly, I make mention of him in an assemble better than it. And if he draws near to Me an arm's length, I draw near to him a fathom's length. And if he comes to Me walking, I go to him at speed.

(1) Another possible rendering of the Arabic is: "I am as My servant expects Me to be". The meaning is that forgiveness and acceptance of repentance by the Almighty is subject to His servant truly believing that He is forgiving and merciful. However, not to accompany such belief with right action would be to mock the Almighty.

It was related by al-Buhkari (also by Muslim, at-Tirmidhi and Ibn-Majah).
​

 

[barney]

I'm not a Muslim because I beleive the universe was created by a entity which was all powerful and unfathamoble.

I beleive Humans in their growing development accross tens of thousands of years developed a need to understand their purpose of existance and developed religions to provide answers to this. These Religions were in my opinion not the word of "God", but a social cohersive programme that was neccessery for mankind to progress.

Progression continued until the need for religion as a ethical, moral and civilising framework has been replaced by a combination of Laws, science, sociology and knowlage. A unkowable deiety and the carrot & stick of formal religion is, certainly in the west with christianity, losing its appeal. This has left the texts of ages past, pretty defunct & the tipping point for me where religion was a benifit to mankind instead of a devisive and stifling function has long since past.

Might be wrong. I Dunno. And nobody else does either! :blind:

 

[Grace Seeker]

I'm not a Muslim because I beleive the universe was created by a entity which was all powerful and unfathamoble.

I beleive Humans in their growing development accross tens of thousands of years developed a need to understand their purpose of existance and developed religions to provide answers to this. These Religions were in my opinion not the word of "God", but a social cohersive programme that was neccessery for mankind to progress.

Progression continued until the need for religion as a ethical, moral and civilising framework has been replaced by a combination of Laws, science, sociology and knowlage. A unkowable deiety and the carrot & stick of formal religion is, certainly in the west with christianity, losing its appeal. This has left the texts of ages past, pretty defunct & the tipping point for me where religion was a benifit to mankind instead of a devisive and stifling function has long since past.

Might be wrong. I Dunno. And nobody else does either! :blind:

Having read this and a couple of your other posts on atheism/agnosticism, on what basis do you use the label Christian with reference to yourself? It seems as if that might not fit too well either?

 

[barney]

I hit the wrong button when making my profile!



I'm Monothistic. I beleive in a Creator, all powerful. i beleive that this creator no longer interacts with us.

I beleive all formal religions are created by man.
i'm far from being a christian, and Indeed am a member of a Christian Forum where I discuss their beleifs, but from my own standpoint.

Sorry about the confusion. is it possible to change my description in my title? And if so would that make me a convert to agnostic!

 

[Grace Seeker]

I hit the wrong button when making my profile!



I'm Monothistic. I beleive in a Creator, all powerful. i beleive that this creator no longer interacts with us.

I beleive all formal religions are created by man.
i'm far from being a christian, and Indeed am a member of a Christian Forum where I discuss their beleifs, but from my own standpoint.

Sorry about the confusion. is it possible to change my description in my title? And if so would that make me a convert to agnostic!

Yes, it is possible to change your profile. Go to the top and click on "User CP". Then under that click on "Edit Profile". You can change anything you want in there. My church will be glad to know that I helped someone convert from Christianity to agnosticism. :rollseyes

 

[barney]

Gratz 2 U and thx for the tip.

 

[snakelegs]

another agnostic is born! soon we will be the fastest growing non-religion.

 

[Panther]

I am not a Muslim because I am an Atheist. Simple, really. XD

I am a non-religious Atheist because I do not feel the need to adopt a set of rules or laws in order to live my life morally.

I have my own set of morals comprised of firstly the influence of my parents and society, and secondly of my own judgement and conscious decision.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I'm Monothistic. I beleive in a Creator, all powerful. i beleive that this creator no longer interacts with us.

I believe that makes you a Deist.

 

[barney]

Yay! I have a label!

Actually, I'm not too bothered what to call myself. (theres probably a name for people who arn't bothered too.