Questions directed to atheists and agnostics only

[snakelegs]

Sup Folks,

To all fellow LI Athiests and agnostics is belief in God something you believed in since childhoodand lost through out some point in your life? How did your parents or friends influence your belief (are they athiests or agnostics, the majority of them :O )?


Regards

i was raised in no religion and religion really wasn't discussed much in my family. (mother agnostic, step-father atheist - but not the preachy kind). i've always been agnostic, long before i ever heard the word. so i never had a belief and lost it.
until this last decade or so, i never concerned myself with god one way or the other. i now believe (it's been a gradual process) in god, but i am still agnostic, because i believe that ultimately, there is much that is simply unknowable.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Usually its a case of a the person at stern not knowing what they are doing, so the bow has to compensate.



A novice.

I don't see your point.

Never mind. I was just trying to comment on why I found your canoing offensive. But then, I've been known to take a class III rapid backwards in an open canoe, with only half of it planned that way.:exhausted

 

[Joe98]

To all fellow LI Athiests and agnostics is belief in God something you believed in since childhoodand lost through out some point in your life?

My parents told me there is a god. But I never really believed.

As I grew up I realised I never believed.

-

 

[Woodrow]

My parents told me there is a god. But I never really believed.

As I grew up I realised I never believed.

-

That makes sense.

I'm sort of like that. When I was a kid my teachers told me that Duck Billed-Platypus's existed, but I never believed them.

As I grew up I realized I never believed in platypus's.

 

[cali dude]

i have more questions :

what stops you from harming any one else ??

what stop you from stealing or killing others ?

is it the rules of law in your countries that make you don't do bad thing ?

or what ??

what if you live on an island and there is no laws ,what will motivate you to not oppress any one else ?

EDIT : and what if you can do whatever you want to do even if it hurts others and you are sure that you can get away with it , so what will stop you from doing all that you desire even if it is wrong ?

Although I don't consider myself atheist or agnostic, let me ask you how you would answer these questions if they were directed at you when you know very well that religious people do harm others, steal, kill, and violate law of humanity...

 

[cali dude]

i was raised in no religion and religion really wasn't discussed much in my family. (mother agnostic, step-father atheist - but not the preachy kind). i've always been agnostic, long before i ever heard the word. so i never had a belief and lost it.
until this last decade or so, i never concerned myself with god one way or the other. i now believe (it's been a gradual process) in god, but i am still agnostic, because i believe that ultimately, there is much that is simply unknowable.

somehow you seem to have interest in Sikhi. is it because of your Sikh or Indian background?

 

[Grace Seeker]

For those of who are lacking a belief in God, what would it take to alter your present belief system?

a) Would you have to have a personal encounter with God that you could verify through your 5 senses? If so, would that encounter have to be supernatural in nature or could it be ordinary?

b) If you had an encounter with God so as to convince you of his/her/its existence, would you share that encounter with others? If you did, how would you go about getting disbelievers who had not had the same experiences as you to accept what you had to say as true. What if others said they too had had an encounter with God, but the God they described was unlike the God you had encountered, how would you resolve that?

c) If the God you encountered proposed a different ethic for you to follow than the one you presently do, would you change or stay with that which you have already settled on as most desirable?

 

[cali dude]

For those of who are lacking a belief in God, what would it take to alter your present belief system?

a) Would you have to have a personal encounter with God that you could verify through your 5 senses? If so, would that encounter have to be supernatural in nature or could it be ordinary?

b) If you had an encounter with God so as to convince you of his/her/its existence, would you share that encounter with others? If you did, how would you go about getting disbelievers who had not had the same experiences as you to accept what you had to say as true. What if others said they too had had an encounter with God, but the God they described was unlike the God you had encountered, how would you resolve that?

c) If the God you encountered proposed a different ethic for you to follow than the one you presently do, would you change or stay with that which you have already settled on as most desirable?

Why would you want them to believe in something they don't want as long as they are ethical people? Yes if they harmed anyone, it would be of a concern. But since they seem to be pretty civilized decent people, in fact in certain situation, they even better off than being religious, then why worry about them accepting God? If God wants, He will somehow give them a reason to do so.

 

[Gator]

For those of who are lacking a belief in God, what would it take to alter your present belief system?

a) Would you have to have a personal encounter with God that you could verify through your 5 senses? If so, would that encounter have to be supernatural in nature or could it be ordinary?

b) If you had an encounter with God so as to convince you of his/her/its existence, would you share that encounter with others? If you did, how would you go about getting disbelievers who had not had the same experiences as you to accept what you had to say as true. What if others said they too had had an encounter with God, but the God they described was unlike the God you had encountered, how would you resolve that?

c) If the God you encountered proposed a different ethic for you to follow than the one you presently do, would you change or stay with that which you have already settled on as most desirable?

Hello -
a) Not necessarily 5 senses. Big booming voice would be sufficient. She would have to provide evidence of godness. Something hopefully physical as I would have to eliminate any hallucination or insanity on my part.

b)Yes. I'd show them the concrete evidence God provided me, but if they didn't believe me that would be their deal. God moves in mysterious ways.

c) Maybe. The usual caveat that it depends on what it is and what the punishment would be. If it was I had to grow a beard or spend the rest of eternity in hell, I would grow the beard. If she says I had to discriminate or kill a certain group of humans because they were different and no punishment either way, I would not do that.

 

[snakelegs]

somehow you seem to have interest in Sikhi. is it because of your Sikh or Indian background?

yes, i have an interest in sikhi but not in the sense of seeking a religion. there is much to admire in sikhism - that's for sure and there is also much that makes sense.
and i listen to gurbani a lot and find it very beautiful and grounding. (the rest -most - of the time, i fly with qawwali.)

 

[Pygoscelis]

Sup Folks,

To all fellow LI Athiests and agnostics is belief in God something you believed in since childhoodand lost through out some point in your life? How did your parents or friends influence your belief (are they athiests or agnostics, the majority of them :O )?


Regards

I was raised by a Anglican mother and closeted agnostic father (he went along with my mother for her sake). They never really pressured me to follow religion, and I never was a believer.

I became interested in religion as I met hardcore religious fundamentalist types, Christians mostly, and found their thought process to be disturbing and alarming, and overly authoritarian.

I've not faced much ostracization or hostility due to my lack of religion, thanks to the very multicultural society I live in, but I have many friends who live in environments more hostile towards nonbelievers (ie, the bible belt in the US).

 

[Grace Seeker]

Why would you want them to believe in something they don't want as long as they are ethical people? Yes if they harmed anyone, it would be of a concern. But since they seem to be pretty civilized decent people, in fact in certain situation, they even better off than being religious, then why worry about them accepting God? If God wants, He will somehow give them a reason to do so.

I'm not wanting them to believe in somehting they don't want. That wasn't the nature of my question. But open minded people are usually amenable to the idea that there are things that they don't know about. Even things they once believed in or did not believe in that now the reverse is the case. Few people have exactly the same beliefs at 7, 17, and 70. Thus we change, we modify our beliefs, based on our experiences. Those that don't either know it all (or think they do) or have egos so overinflated they can't admit to themselves the possibility of having ever been wrong.

But again, I just wanted to know what might cause some one who didn't believe in something (in the case of this thread, the subject is God) to believe. I can imagine many different responses, including that some would not be convinced should God introduce him/her/itself to them personally over breakfast.

I don't see what is so bad about my question. In another thread I might have asked the same thing about UFOs. By the way, I don't believe in UFOs and for me to believe, it would take either first-hand experience or the testimony of someone that I found consistently trustworthy and a chance to question them about their experiences.

Or are you suggesting an unwillingness to consider anything that is outside your present worldview?

 

[Pygoscelis]

a) Would you have to have a personal encounter with God that you could verify through your 5 senses? If so, would that encounter have to be supernatural in nature or could it be ordinary?

Define supernatural. Besides that, I'd have to have SOME sort of evidence for a start. Anything beyond cultural memes would peak my curiousity. Certainly if God spoke to me directly, I'd want to investigate that. But I'd also be curious if even indirect evidence appeared that could not be rationally explained. In that case I'd not leap to a god-of-the-gaps conclusion, but I'd want to investigate and maybe just maybe that would lead to God.

I do however not feel a huge burning desire to know one way or the other if God actually does exist. If he does, he hasn't had any meaninful impact on my life, and if he is a nasty God who punishes non believers in teh afterlife, I'd not respect him or want to worship him anyway.

Any god who isn't a monster can safely be ignored until it presents itself clearly. Any god who is a monster isn't deserving of my respect, much less my obedience or worship.

b) If you had an encounter with God so as to convince you of his/her/its existence, would you share that encounter with others? If you did, how would you go about getting disbelievers who had not had the same experiences as you to accept what you had to say as true.

If I had a strictly personal experience, for which I could produce no objective evidence, I'd first question my own sanity. As for proving it to others, by the definition of above, it couldn't be done, so why spin your wheels?

What if others said they too had had an encounter with God, but the God they described was unlike the God you had encountered, how would you resolve that?

Well, clearly I'd be right and they'd be wrong, and I'd have to forcibly convert them for their own good, or kill them, for they'd taint the rest of us with their horrible heathen ways. Maybe I'd burn them at the stake. It'd make for quite a show, to get the others in line, and it could be used as a fuel source.

Kidding. Kidding.

c) If the God you encountered proposed a different ethic for you to follow than the one you presently do, would you change or stay with that which you have already settled on as most desirable?

Well if I found a God and he had a code of behaviour to follow that was to me unethical, I like to think I'd have the guts to stand up to him. I'd certainly like to think I'd not bow down to a tyrant God, out of fear and cowardice.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Well if I found a God and he had a code of behaviour to follow that was to me unethical, I like to think I'd have the guts to stand up to him. I'd certainly like to think I'd not bow down to a tyrant God, out of fear and cowardice.

It is also possible that this, as yet, unknown God might be more liberal than you. Condoning as permissible, even valued, things that having adopted many of societies standards you subconsciously perceive as taboo.

For instance, the Incas had no concept of private property. If respect personal space, but property cannot be private own, it belongs to all was part of the ethic of this God, That would not make him a tyrant. Yet, it might challenge your present lifestyle if you are a typical participant in western capitalistic society. Would you contine to conform to your culture or change to conform to God's will and ethic?

 

[Pygoscelis]

For instance, the Incas had no concept of private property. If respect personal space, but property cannot be private own, it belongs to all was part of the ethic of this God, That would not make him a tyrant. Yet, it might challenge your present lifestyle if you are a typical participant in western capitalistic society. Would you contine to conform to your culture or change to conform to God's will and ethic?

A liberal God simply isn't relevant. For example, lets say God doesn't mind you killing people. I'm still not going to start killing people, because I have a complete set of ethics completely separate from what this God may have to say.

A God who wants me to conform to a particular commandment or lifestyle, be it capitalism or communism (like the Incans you describe) is not being liberal. A liberal God would not wish me to do either, and not punish me for doing either.

If God exists, I like to believe that she'd not be upset with me for engaging in capitalism, or engaging in communism. I don't see why she'd care either way. And any God who would punish me for doing either is a monster and not deserving of my respect.

As I said above, a decent loving God can be ignored until she makes herself clear. And a tyrant God should not be respected.

 

[cali dude]

A liberal God simply isn't relevant. For example, lets say God doesn't mind you killing people. I'm still not going to start killing people, because I have a complete set of ethics completely separate from what this God may have to say.

This is wonderful. I often have the same problem with people of religion, some times even some of Sikhs. They try to convince me that there is nothing wrong with eating meat referring to what their religion. I don't care what religion says but it doesn't make sense to me, I am not going to do it.

We shouldn't forget that not all religions are absolute truth. I am not even convinced that they all came from God. So we should rely on something that makes the most sense, even if it's only our own belief.

 

[barney]

Define supernatural. Besides that, I'd have to have SOME sort of evidence for a start. Anything beyond cultural memes would peak my curiousity. Certainly if God spoke to me directly, I'd want to investigate that. But I'd also be curious if even indirect evidence appeared that could not be rationally explained. In that case I'd not leap to a god-of-the-gaps conclusion, but I'd want to investigate and maybe just maybe that would lead to God.

I do however not feel a huge burning desire to know one way or the other if God actually does exist. If he does, he hasn't had any meaninful impact on my life, and if he is a nasty God who punishes non believers in teh afterlife, I'd not respect him or want to worship him anyway.

Any god who isn't a monster can safely be ignored until it presents itself clearly. Any god who is a monster isn't deserving of my respect, much less my obedience or worship.



If I had a strictly personal experience, for which I could produce no objective evidence, I'd first question my own sanity. As for proving it to others, by the definition of above, it couldn't be done, so why spin your wheels?



Well, clearly I'd be right and they'd be wrong, and I'd have to forcibly convert them for their own good, or kill them, for they'd taint the rest of us with their horrible heathen ways. Maybe I'd burn them at the stake. It'd make for quite a show, to get the others in line, and it could be used as a fuel source.

Kidding. Kidding.



Well if I found a God and he had a code of behaviour to follow that was to me unethical, I like to think I'd have the guts to stand up to him. I'd certainly like to think I'd not bow down to a tyrant God, out of fear and cowardice.

Smack on ditto answers for me. I'd strongly go with the sanity thread and if my God couldnt come up with a darn good reason why they were only appearing to me and not the guy on the train next to me, I'd get myself totally medicated. If I found that it was asking me to do things I felt to be wrong, like waste people, i'd prolly top myself as i'm a danger to others.

The points about a tyrant God I strongly support. And If God was responsible for the floods in New Orleans or the Famine in Ethiopia or the tsunami, then i wouldnt wave it's banner at all. Id not do that anyway. i'd say "Cool World you made...can you step in now and stop people blowing kids to peices with Assault Rifles"

Of course there may be some other supernatural force out there 1 good 1 evil, and the evil one is battling the good . But it's a bit of a bite-your-fingers-and say-hmmm, for me. Still if it could be proved, i'd go along with that.

The old atheist motto springs to mind.
Follower of religion X : " My gods terriffic..he does fantastic stuff"
Atheist: "So whats with the tens of millions of people suffering them"
Follower of religion X:" Satan"
Atheist:" Okies"
Follower of religion X:" Look at the Banana, Easy to peel, nutritious, tapered at both ends so it's easy to fit in the mouth, soft...the banana is a creationists nightmare..The Banana is from god"
Atheist:" Coconuts?"
Follower of religion X: "Satanic"

 

[Pygoscelis]

Follower of religion X:" Look at the Banana, Easy to peel, nutritious, tapered at both ends so it's easy to fit in the mouth, soft...the banana is a creationists nightmare..The Banana is from god"
Atheist:" Coconuts?"
Follower of religion X: "Satanic"

Satanic Coconuts. That there is a classic.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

An interesting thing that I have debated for a long time is the existent of a conscience that we have, which I am not sure how we developed.

 

[ranma1/2]

Peace,


clearly i have offended every one of you and i'd like to apologise. Please accept it and hear my explenation.


Due to the fact that you dont have a religion it feels that you rely on your own morals and values to restrict you to do good and keep away from evil. In this society of sex, drugs and rock and roll a man/woman is weak, they are easily seduced by the pleasures of the world and are very likely living with a materialistic mindset (house/wife/car possession/pride etc etc). Therefore when you dont have faith or God to help you to really fight your innerself and restrain yourself from sinning how is it that we can believe that your being honest?


im sorry, im sure many of you have values such as honesty etc and i pray that God guides you all, but you must admit, most without direction/guidance will do as they please... or am i being unfair?

Howdy, 1st post for me.
I am sure most people just get tired of hearing the same accusations and how ill thought out the thoughts are sometimes.

Example you seem to believe that those without a god or dont believe in a god source is worse than someone who has a god.
"religions dont necessary need a god, look at scientology and buddhism."

Everyone chooses there morals without the help of a god or a religion. The fact that they choose and judge what is right and wrong is a testament to that.

Now as for sin, what is it? Restrain oneself from sinning? Lets just say what prevents us from doing bad stuff.
For me its the desire to live in a social group. You know the good old golden rule. Sex , drugs, rock and roll i do not consider sins..
Drugs can be bad and depending on the type i believe shouldnt be used.
Beer, cigarettes "i dont smoke" caffine etc are drugs that are legal in most places and have minor effects on people. sigh i am rambling aint i?

back to the subject.

Morality.

You do not need a god or a imaginary god "from your perspective everyreligion except yours is imaginary or wrong" to give you morals.

Everyone uses what they believe is right and wrong to aid in there actions and lives. You even have used your own judgement to determine what is right and wrong. God had no hand in it. Sure you may have thought something was good and in following a religion you then decided it was bad. But it was still your own choice.

As many have pointed out, they do "good" for no reward or fear of punishment.

well thats enough of a ramble. "im extremly hungry so my brain has gone down the drain.."