are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)

[cali dude]

If you want to complain to the admins (the ones with the red nicks) - please put it forward to them. They'll come upon a common agreement to see if i really did something unjust or not.

Who are those Admins? They are just like you... So why would you expect anything different from them?

But to be truthful, first you need to accept the truth as it is and only then we can come to a truthful conclusion...

Instead, you people like to give infraction against truth. So, how can we even discus truth...

Anyways, my job is to seek truth and make people aware of truth. It really doesn't matter how many infraction you give, you can't force me not to tell the truth...

I saw in a Bollywood movie that Musalmaan meant Muslam Imaan meaning someone with complete dignity. But it seems we have much more dignity than some of the people are supposed to have complete dignity...

 

[cali dude]

Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.

[Qur'an 52: 36-7]

You can read theory of evolution. It for sure makes much more sense than creating Adam and Eve out of mud.

Please, post me proof from your scripture.

I don't believe in posting anything here from Guru Granth Sahib. Simply believe me what Kabir Sahib said...

If Allaah has permitted meat for us, the same way He has permitted for us the riding of animals (which might cause a slight pain to the animal you're riding), or even the milking of a cow for example (which might also cause a slight pain when one milks it) - then there is nothing wrong with that.

Do you actually believe the milking a cow hurts her as much as it causes to kill it? Let's at least talk some logic...

The killing of an innocent soul is forbidden by Allaah anyway:

"If anyone slew an innocent person it would be as if he slew the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind"

[Al-Qur’an 5:32]

As I understand, in fact, I saw this in one of the videos on youtube that for Muslims, the only innocent people are Muslim.

Trust me, they don't feel it hardly at all, i already explained to you the concept of cutting the aorta, since that causes the least pain to the animal and its over before they know it. And it's much more humane compared to the methods of electrocution which is a common method practised today.

Please let's talk about some logic. Try poking your finger. I can assure you, pain of being killed is alot more than poking your own finger. Why do you keep comparing to the other methods used? Did I ever say the other methods were any better than your method? They are both inhumane...

And being born in a muslim family means nothing no soul bears the burden of another, and man is only responsible for his/her own deeds - we don't inherit islaam, but the one who submits to Allaah and obeys His Messenger out of his/her own freewill is a muslim.

Still there is a better world out there...

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Who are those Admins? They are just like you... So why would you expect anything different from them?

But to be truthful, first you need to accept the truth as it is and only then we can come to a truthful conclusion...

Instead, you people like to give infraction against truth. So, how can we even discus truth...

Anyways, my job is to seek truth and make people aware of truth. It really doesn't matter how many infraction you give, you can't force me not to tell the truth...

I saw in a Bollywood movie that Musalmaan meant Muslam Imaan meaning someone with complete dignity. But it seems we have much more dignity than some of the people are supposed to have complete dignity...

My friend, you are in no place to talk about the truth or even debate here, so please keep your dignity before you humilate yourself again like what happened here.

You have had a free rein here, we let you stay on this forum for a long time whilst many people before you with the exact same attitude were banned. We were tolerant with you and Fi_sabilililah in particular went a great distance in trying to explain to you along with the other members, the least you can do is respect him - and the muslims. Every question, allegation, arguement, and misconception you brought forth was patiently responded to and every detail was explained to you. We censored nothing. The thread linked to above is a clear example of this. You resort to the age-old ignorant allegations even after having been provided extensive explanations.

You must really be desperate to demean Islam seeing as how you've tried and failed over and over on this board. You are of a closed heart, you are not here seeking to learn, you are here with the exact same attitude of the anti-Islamists who post allegations yet never read a response. If you have nothing better to do in your life other than attacking Islam, so be it.

However, this bigoted attitude towards Islam and Muslims from you will not be tolerated on this forum furthermore. It has become clear to us that you are not here to learn. If any of your posts are of this nature after this, we will show you the door.

Regards.

 

[snakelegs]

[MOUSE]grossly off topic[/MOUSE]
calidude:

I saw in a Bollywood movie that Musalmaan meant Muslam Imaan meaning someone with complete dignity.

bollywood is hardly a reliable source for information, but is this correct? i've long wondered about the term.

 

[cali dude]

[MOUSE]grossly off topic[/MOUSE]
calidude:
bollywood is hardly a reliable source for information, but is this correct? i've long wondered about the term.

sorry Imaan means faith...

 

[cali dude]

My friend, you are in no place to talk about the truth or even debate here, so please keep your dignity before you humilate yourself again like what happened here.

You have had a free rein here, we let you stay on this forum for a long time whilst many people before you with the exact same attitude were banned. We were tolerant with you and Fi_sabilililah in particular went a great distance in trying to explain to you along with the other members, the least you can do is respect him - and the muslims. Every question, allegation, arguement, and misconception you brought forth was patiently responded to and every detail was explained to you. We censored nothing. The thread linked to above is a clear example of this. You resort to the age-old ignorant allegations even after having been provided extensive explanations.

You must really be desperate to demean Islam seeing as how you've tried and failed over and over on this board. You are of a closed heart, you are not here seeking to learn, you are here with the exact same attitude of the anti-Islamists who post allegations yet never read a response. If you have nothing better to do in your life other than attacking Islam, so be it.

However, this bigoted attitude towards Islam and Muslims from you will not be tolerated on this forum furthermore. It has become clear to us that you are not here to learn. If any of your posts are of this nature after this, we will show you the door.

Regards.

The link you gave me only shows that a true Sikh doesn't commit any sins. So there is nothing wrong with that but you conveniently forgot to response to this post of yours.

I neither favor any religion nor oppose. I simply favor truth. If truth opposes any religion, there is nothing I can do about it and truth is above all religions.

 

[snakelegs]

sorry Imaan means faith...

thanks. i know imaan means faith. i was curious about the word "musalman" instead of muslim.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Try giving me proof from your scripture that eating animals is forbidden, then we can discuss this situation further. If you don't have proof from your own religious scripture [i.e. the Guru Granth Sahib] - then that isn't truelly showing that sikhism is the more 'better way to live' right?
.

Brother, this is what is stated in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji! - And this is what we follow. The Quran, may state something in favour of consuming meat, but to us God made animals and some are carnivores and some herbivores. All by the will of God. ''And those animals which eat grass-He could make them eat meat. He could make them follow this way of life'' (Guru Nanak Dev)

We humans have the same choice. But who makes the right one.....

Here are a few verses against eating meat in the SGGS.


1- They (the truest of the true) burn away the bonds of the world,
And eat a simple diet of grain and water.
(SGGS p467)

2- Kabir, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (reborn)
(SGGS p1337)

3- You kill living beings and worship lifeless things, at your very last moment, You will suffer terrible pain.
(SGGS p332)

4- Do not say that the Vedas are false, false are those who do not reflect. If in all is one god, then why does one kill the hen ?
(SGGS p1350)

5- Sayeth Kabir, that the best food is eating kichree (daal/lentils) where nectar sweet is the salt.
You eat hunted meat, but which animal is willing to have their head cut ?(SGGS p1378)

6- In this dark age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs;
They eat rotting dead bodies for food.
(SGGS p1242)

7- Sayeth Kabir, sayeth thou by forcefully killing living beings, Halaal.
When in God's house, your accounts be taken, what will then there happen to you!
(SGGS p1375)

Now, to get to the heart of the matter, we are talking about killing another living being , cutting its flesh and muscles which that animal relied upon for its existence and consuming it, primarily for the taste. It has been said that we are designed to eat meat and that we evolved to eat meat. There are many things that we can do but that does not make them right,

BUT, to lay this to rest Dhan Guru Nanak states the following because he knows man does not think he is infalliable so will go on and on about if eating meat is right or wrong. When we go up there we'll know for sure. :statisfie

Maas Maas Kar Moorakh Jhaghrrey.
Gian dhian Nahin Jaaney.
Kaun Maas Kaun Saag Kahaavey
Kis Mah Paap Samaaney. (pg. 1289-1290)

Only the fool quarrels over the question of eating or not eating of the meat.
He does not have the True Wisdom. Without True Wisdom or Meditation, he harps on
which is flesh and which is not flesh and which food is sinful and which is not.

 

[AB517]

Try listening to the Qur'an in the arabic language, with a translation in english - verse by verse:

http://sabbir.com/DownloadHalal.html


I'm sure you'll see that none can compare the eloquent Qur'an to any other book.



Here's a good link also which explains who is God, what is worship etc.:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/


Darn it ... I see all great books as eloquent. I see these books more alike than different.

Answer with your heart and mind, use a Book to guide. He speaks to you, now and forever more. He Guides with infinite vision, he loves with infinite love. To be merciful is to say another child of god is lacking (less than me).

I will check this site out ... to find the limits of man put upon them too. I will weep as our father does in heaven ... I will weep for me and all others in this great universe of God's.

AB

 

[AbuAbdallah]

salaam,

What's so bad about eating meat?

 

[- Qatada -]

You can read theory of evolution. It for sure makes much more sense than creating Adam and Eve out of mud.

Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.

[Qur'an 52: 36-7]


Explain to me how the universe was created, not formed into shape. But how it was created, was it created from nothing?

Knowing that Allaah created Adam out of mud is simple, when you die and get buried, what do you turn into? Dust. So what's so hard about believing that one was created from it in the first place.


This is shocking coming from a sikhi also, since i thought you believed in a God. Isn't that the aim of sikhis, to actually 'become' god when they die?

I don't believe in posting anything here from Guru Granth Sahib. Simply believe me what Kabir Sahib said...

How can i believe something which isn't backed up with proof?

Do you actually believe the milking a cow hurts her as much as it causes to kill it? Let's at least talk some logic...

Sure i will, riding a donkey or horse might cause pain to its back. And i've explained that cutting the main artery which leads to the brain causes all the pain to stop anyway, probably even less than riding on a donkey for some hours or years.

As I understand, in fact, I saw this in one of the videos on youtube that for Muslims, the only innocent people are Muslim.

Well the verse refers to mankind.

Please let's talk about some logic. Try poking your finger. I can assure you, pain of being killed is alot more than poking your own finger. Why do you keep comparing to the other methods used? Did I ever say the other methods were any better than your method? They are both inhumane...

I'm sure that cutting an electrical cable of a computer would shut the rest of the system off, similarly - cutting the nerve which sends the signal of pain would cause minimum pain to the animal also.

Still there is a better world out there...

I don't see it.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

Now, to get to the heart of the matter, we are talking about killing another living being , cutting its flesh and muscles which that animal relied upon for its existence and consuming it, primarily for the taste. It has been said that we are designed to eat meat and that we evolved to eat meat. There are many things that we can do but that does not make them right,

So is it wrong to harvest trees to use for lumber? We don't need tables and chairs, so why use them?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

So is it wrong to harvest trees to use for lumber? We don't need tables and chairs, so why use them?

You tried consuming a tree....?

You can argue plants have life to, but it's not equal to animals or human.... Consequences of eating plants do not compare to those of an animal which has feeling, possible thoughts, parental instincts towards its offspring, also plants (lentils, maize , spinach etc) are not harmful on a mental, spiritual level but are in fact good for the digestion. Scientists proved this.

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

This is shocking coming from a sikhi also, since i thought you believed in a God. Isn't that the aim of sikhis, to actually 'become' God when they die?

)

You have proof of this statment from the Scriptures?

 

[- Qatada -]

You have proof of this statment from the Scriptures?

Avar, what can i do if i have to believe everything that cali dude says - even if he never brings proof for it? What else can i rely on? Shall i just ignore his posts from now on then?

 

[AvarAllahNoor]

Avar, what can i do if i have to believe everything that cali dude says - even if he never brings proof for it? What else can i rely on? Shall i just ignore his posts from now on then?

I can't comment on ignoring him or not. But bearing in mind my or his personal opinions count for nothing.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

compare to those of an animal which has feeling, possible thoughts, parental instincts towards its offspring

Plants don't possess these traits?

So it's okay to kill plants, but animals have possible thoughts or parental insticts so it is not okay?

 

[Ghira]

I think one verse explains this concept Sura Al Baiyinah verse 5.

"Verily, those who disbelieve from amongst the people of the book (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun (worshipping partners beside Allah) will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures."

Why the long post?

 

[al-fateh]

verse 6 sister

 

[cali dude]

Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.

[Qur'an 52: 36-7]


Explain to me how the universe was created, not formed into shape. But how it was created, was it created from nothing?

Knowing that Allaah created Adam out of mud is simple, when you die and get buried, what do you turn into? Dust. So what's so hard about believing that one was created from it in the first place.


This is shocking coming from a sikhi also, since i thought you believed in a God. Isn't that the aim of sikhis, to actually 'become' god when they die?

Just because what you say about creation doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't mean I don't believe in God.

If I were capable of reading and understanding Guru Granth Sahib entirely, I would tell you for sure what Guru Granth Sahib says about creation of the universe.

But theory of evolution (please do check it) does logically make better sense than creating Adam and Eve out of mud. Does it really sense that God created Adam and Eve out of dirt and yet created animals out of meat, when there human and animals share so many biological similarities? Do you ever wonder how soul was created?

How can i believe something which isn't backed up with proof?

Avar gave you many quotes, which I usually don't like to do...

Sure i will, riding a donkey or horse might cause pain to its back. And i've explained that cutting the main artery which leads to the brain causes all the pain to stop anyway, probably even less than riding on a donkey for some hours or years.

Horses and donkeys are capable of easily carrying certain weight. But yes, it would be wrong to load them up with so much weight that causes them pain.

I'm sure that cutting an electrical cable of a computer would shut the rest of the system off, similarly - cutting the nerve which sends the signal of pain would cause minimum pain to the animal also.

Still minimum is more than none. But I don't think it happens this way though. How do you find the nerve without cutting the skin?

I don't see it.

That's because you have been brainwashed in certain way.