are ALL non-muslims abided in HELL...(completely explained here)

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So we take Mohammad for his word that he spoke to God?

Jospeh Smith makes the same claim in Mormonism. :exhausted


Then you gota see what Joseph smith came up with. Right? See the message and see if it truely is a way of life which brings good for billions of people. :) Then compare it to the Qur'an for yourself. This is when your sincerety comes into it.
 
Inshallah the bro Fisbalililah will help out inshallah

1st point

We say about Allah's unity believing by Allah's help - that Allah is One, without any partners.

is there anything that you go against here?
 
Then you gota see what Joseph smith came up with. Right? See the message and see if it truely is a way of life which brings good for billions of people. :) Then compare it to the Qur'an for yourself. This is when your sincerety comes into it.

I have done, so and both books make claims which they cannot prove to me. Of course one may make more sense, but I don't see how making sense is proof.

Inshallah the bro Fisbalililah will help out inshallah

1st point

We say about Allah's unity believing by Allah's help - that Allah is One, without any partners.

is there anything that you go against here?

Not really.
 
2. There is nothing like Him.

is there anything u go against here?

and what would u say to the term "nothing like him"?
 
:salamext:


Brother al fateh, the Qur'an is a guidance for all of mankind. It is a book of guidance, and whether a believer or non believer reads it - it will have an impact on them since the Qur'an is for all of mankind. Whether one is a believer or non believer, the message is for them. The logic and fitrah [natural dispositon God has created us in] fit in together with man in order to help them understand the Qur'an and reflect upon it to see their real purpose.


By reading the Qur'an man gains faith, instead of simply needing faith to understand Qur'an - if you get what i mean. :)

Amen

This is a reasoneble statement ... you mite just have it.
I dont know if you can answer this because ... are there any others that fit this discription?

AB517
 
If you believe in one God then obviously there is nothing like him.

ok, hold ur horses, and when we say there is nothing like him , we differ with what others attribute Allah with.

some of which we know they attribute Allah by having a son, or by Allah being a light, or by Allah being the holy spirit, or by Allah being among us on earth. so if we were to affirm that there is nothing like him, it is logical to say, that he is unlike his creation... agreed? cz everything i mentioned is a creation...

which takes us back on affirming even more the first point...
We say about Allah's unity believing by Allah's help - that Allah is One, without any partners.

being unlike any other also means, he has no partners , and he is one, and that we need out creator, while he doesnt need us, cz he created us.

clear so far my friend?
 
Amen

This is a reasoneble statement ... you mite just have it.
I dont know if you can answer this because ... are there any others that fit this discription?

AB517


Try listening to the Qur'an in the arabic language, with a translation in english - verse by verse:

http://sabbir.com/DownloadHalal.html


I'm sure you'll see that none can compare the eloquent Qur'an to any other book.



Here's a good link also which explains who is God, what is worship etc.:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/tawheed/




Regards.
 
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Allaah is the Creator of all things.
You actually believe that meat came before animals?

I said we use a sharp knife so it causes the least pain to the animal. And Allaah out of His eternal Wisdom has made certain meats permissible for us due to health benefits etc.

This is where the problem is...

You, as a Muslim, do understand that causing pain in wrong, right? Apparently, that's why you are supposed to use sharper knife, to minimize pain because even Muslims understand that unnecessarily causing pain is wrong.

Logically thinking, if causing pain is wrong, what's even better than causing a little pain? I would think causing no pain at all is better than causing even a little pain.

So, if your religion were the best, shouldn't it be preaching not to kill or cause killing of animals unless there is no other way to survive? Since it doesn't preach that, apparently, there is a better way to live a spiritual life than your religion.

Don't worry, I often have the same problem when I go to one of the Sikh sites, but, I am pretty sure you remember you gave me infraction points for mentioning the truth about your religion. In other words, truth is not acceptable to you. Those, who are offended by truth and try to hide it, are not truthful people.

It doesn't take genius to figure out that in spiritual word, you must be the most honest and truthful person.

So, obviously there is a better spiritual path than the spiritual path you follow.


And Allaah out of His eternal Wisdom has made certain meats permissible for us due to health benefits etc.

How selfish!!! All you think of is yourself, no mercy for animals. Spirituality isn't about being selfish, is it?
 
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Submission to God means to submit to Allaah in the way He wants you to submit to Him. So it means to obey His Messenger (peace be upon him.) In our case, anyone who has lived after Muhammad (peace be upon him) recieved the revelation, then they will be brought forth and be responsible in the sight of God on whether they obeyed him or not. If they submitted and obeyed - their reward is with Allaah, if they rejected it when it became clear to them, then know that this life is only temporary, and you will without a doubt return to your Lord and be accountable for your ownselves.

If my views contradict with your views, how does it even make sense for me to follow your path, especially when I know there is a better path.
 
how would u say your way is the better way?

can u explain....i would like to hear the conept of your worship and why is it better.
 
You actually believe that meat came before animals?


I simply stated that Allaah created all things, i never said which came before the other. Because i don't know the answer, what did God create first - the meat of the animal, or the animal itself?


If we say the animal was created first, we have to question how the animal was made; was it made without the bones being covered in flesh/meat at the beginning?

If that's the case, then the meat was created first. And Allaah knows best.



This is where the problem is...

You, as a Muslim, do understand that causing pain in wrong, right? Apparently, that's why you are supposed to use sharper knife, to minimum pain because even Muslims understand that unnecessarily causing pain is wrong.

Logically thinking, if causing pain is wrong, what's even better than causing a little pain? I would think causing no pain at all is better than causing even a little pain.


So, if your religion were the best, shouldn't it preaching not to kill or cause killing of animals unless there is no other way to survive? Since it doesn't preach that, apparently, there is a better way to live a spiritual life than your religion.


Try giving me proof from your scripture that eating animals is forbidden, then we can discuss this situation further. :) If you don't have proof from your own religious scripture [i.e. the Guru Granth Sahib] - then that isn't truelly showing that sikhism is the more 'better way to live' right?



Don't worry, I often have the same problem when I go to one of the Sikh sites, but, I am pretty sure you remember you gave me infraction points for mentioning the truth about your religion. In other words, truth is not acceptable to you. Those, who are offended by truth and try to hide it, are not truthful people.


Oh ok, so theres a difference of opinion among sikhis too on whether eating meat is allowed or not?

And no i never gave you infractions for 'telling the truth' about my religion, i gave you the infraction because you spread propaganda about it by distorting the facts.



It doesn't take genius to figure out that in spiritual word, you must be the most honest and truthful person.

Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: It is obligatory for you to tell the truth, for truth leads to virtue and virtue leads to Paradise, and the man who continues to speak the truth and endeavours to tell the truth is eventually recorded as truthful with Allah, and beware of telling of a lie for telling of a lie leads to obscenity and obscenity leads to Hell-Fire, and the person who keeps telling lies and endeavours to tell a lie is recorded as a liar with Allah.

Sahih Muslim Book 032, Number 6309.



So, obviously there is a better spiritual path than the spiritual path you follow.


How so?



How selfish!!! All you think of is yourself, no mercy for animals. Spirituality isn't about being selfish, is it?


I've stated before, it hardly causes pain to the animals. Allaah has created for us some animals to eat, some to ride, and they are bestowed upon us as a blessing from Allaah. And we've used science to prove that it is healthy for humans to eat meat, infact it causes those who don't eat meat to have negative side effects:

It is well established that eating meat improves the quality of nutrition, strengthens the immune system, promotes normal growth and development, is beneficial for day-to-day health, energy and well-being, and helps ensure optimal learning and academic performance.”

- “The long-term Bogalusa Heart Study finds that children who eat more meat are less likely to have deficiencies than those who eat little or no meat. Kids who don’t eat meat — and especially if they restrict other foods, as many girls are doing — are more likely to feel tired, apathetic, unable to concentrate, are sick more often, more frequently depressed, and are the most likely to be malnourished and have stunted growth. Meat and other animal-source foods are the building blocks of healthy growth that have made America’s youngsters among the tallest, strongest and healthiest in the world.”

http://www.healthyweightnetwork.com/zart6.htm


Anyway, maybe you could provide evidence from your scripture which prohibits the eating of meat. :)



Thanks in advance.
 
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If my views contradict with your views, how does it even make sense for me to follow your path, especially when I know there is a better path.


Bring me your proof if you're truthful. You're one guy versus billions of others among mankind, from different races and nationalities. :)
 
I simply stated that Allaah created all things, i never said which came before the other. Because i don't know the answer, what did God create first - the meat of the animal, or the animal itself?

If we say the animal was created first, we have to question how the animal was made; was it made without the bones being covered in flesh/meat at the beginning?

If that's the case, then the meat was created first. And Allaah knows best.
Or maybe because animals and people were not created instantly. Maybe theory of evolution correct...

Try giving me proof from your scripture that eating animals is forbidden, then we can discuss this situation further. :) If you don't have proof from your own religious scripture [i.e. the Guru Granth Sahib] - then that isn't truelly showing that sikhism is the more 'better way to live' right?
As far as I understand a Sikh should eat meat only if there is no other way to survive. That's why most Baptized Sikhs are vegetarians.

Oh ok, so theres a difference of opinion among sikhis too on whether eating meat is allowed or not?

And no i never gave you infractions for 'telling the truth' about my religion, i gave you the infraction because you spread propaganda about it by distorting the facts.
Yes the meat issue and also other political issues. When I try to post something about wrongdoings of some of the so-called Sikh leaders, they won't allow me post.

No, there was no distorting. What I said was all facts...

I've stated before, it hardly causes pain to the animals. Allaah has created for us some animals to eat, some to ride, and they are bestowed upon us as a blessing from Allaah. And we've used science to prove that it is healthy for humans to eat meat, infact it causes those who don't eat meat to have negative side effects:

It is well established that eating meat improves the quality of nutrition, strengthens the immune system, promotes normal growth and development, is beneficial for day-to-day health, energy and well-being, and helps ensure optimal learning and academic performance.”

- “The long-term Bogalusa Heart Study finds that children who eat more meat are less likely to have deficiencies than those who eat little or no meat. Kids who don’t eat meat — and especially if they restrict other foods, as many girls are doing — are more likely to feel tired, apathetic, unable to concentrate, are sick more often, more frequently depressed, and are the most likely to be malnourished and have stunted growth. Meat and other animal-source foods are the building blocks of healthy growth that have made America’s youngsters among the tallest, strongest and healthiest in the world.”

http://www.healthyweightnetwork.com/zart6.htm


Anyway, maybe you could provide evidence from your scripture which prohibits the eating of meat. :)



Thanks in advance.

Hardly pain is not same as no pain at all. So if there a million dollar belonging to someone else sitting in front of you, are you going to take just because it's good for you. Meat is the same way. If you can survive without causing pain to animals, you should try avoiding unnecessarily killing animals...

Actually it was Kabir Sahib (who was born in Muslim family), who said that you don't even think of how animals suffer when you are killing animals making it a religious practice.
 
Bring me your proof if you're truthful. You're one guy versus billions of others among mankind, from different races and nationalities. :)

Proof we are discussing:

1. Causing unnecessary pain to the animals, when you can survive without killing animal and causing pain, is allowed in your religion.

2. You can not be entirely honest following your path as I have described how you gave me infraction for telling the truth.
 
Or maybe because animals and people were not created instantly. Maybe theory of evolution correct...


Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief.


[Qur'an 52: 36-7]



As far as I understand a Sikh should eat meat only if there is no other way to survive. That's why most Baptized Sikhs are vegetarians.

Yes the meat issue and also other political issues. When I try to post something about wrongdoings of some of the so-called Sikh leaders, they won't allow me post.

No, there was no distorting. What I said was all facts...


Please, post me proof from your scripture. :)



Hardly pain is not same as no pain at all. So if there a million dollar belonging to someone else sitting in front of you, are you going to take just because it's good for you. Meat is the same way. If you can survive without causing pain to animals, you should try avoiding unnecessarily killing animals...


If Allaah has permitted meat for us, the same way He has permitted for us the riding of animals (which might cause a slight pain to the animal you're riding), or even the milking of a cow for example (which might also cause a slight pain when one milks it) - then there is nothing wrong with that.


The killing of an innocent soul is forbidden by Allaah anyway:

"If anyone slew an innocent person it would be as if he slew the whole mankind and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole mankind"

[Al-Qur’an 5:32]




Actually it was Kabir Sahib (who was born in Muslim family), who said that you don't even think of how animals suffer when you are killing animals making it a religious practice.


Trust me, they don't feel it hardly at all, i already explained to you the concept of cutting the aorta, since that causes the least pain to the animal and its over before they know it. And it's much more humane compared to the methods of electrocution which is a common method practised today.

And being born in a muslim family means nothing :) no soul bears the burden of another, and man is only responsible for his/her own deeds - we don't inherit islaam, but the one who submits to Allaah and obeys His Messenger out of his/her own freewill is a muslim.



Regards.
 
Proof we are discussing:

1. Causing unnecessary pain to the animals, when you can survive without killing animal and causing pain, is allowed in your religion.

Look at the above post. thanks. :)


2. You can not be entirely honest following your path as I have described how you gave me infraction for telling the truth.


If you want to complain to the admins (the ones with the red nicks) - please put it forward to them. They'll come upon a common agreement to see if i really did something unjust or not.
 
isnt everything about the sikh , is man made?

the concept of following the perfect creator is all corrupt.
 
isnt everything about the sikh , is man made?

the concept of following the perfect creator is all corrupt.

See this is where the difference is. Would it be OK with you people if someone said the same thing about Islam?

Not too many posts ago, you told me that Islam was fair to all...
 
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