Hostage-Taking - Is this Terrorism or a Legitimate Operation?

[Keltoi]

what that could be? hmmm... *thinking*.... ..... ah right - 9/11! almost forgot, by the way not everyone believes official theory, you may cry - conspiracy as much as you want, the fact is a lot of people dont see it the same way you do, so you can stop bringing that up. Reminds me Bush, he brings it up every time he possibly can and have you noticed how his face lightens up, it's clearly his favourite subject, each time he has a tough question - he goes - but 9/11... terrorists... threat... bla bla bla... 9/11... terrorists... 9/11... terrorists.. terrorists...

Alot of people in the world are missing a few screws as well.

 

[Muezzin]

Just a reminder, this thread is about the legitimacy or non-legitimacy of hostage taking, with particular reference to Chechnya, and is not to be derailed into a discussion about 9/11.

 

[Chechnya]

Alot of people in the world are missing a few screws as well.

Im not a supporter of 9-11 conspiracy theories - however if we look at Russia we see that such an event wouldnt have been a first

most non-goverment analysts - russian and western- believe that it was the FSB that was behind the Russian apartment blasts in 1999 ( Russias own 9-11)

Russian FSB officers were actually caught by some local police officials planting bombs in more apartments and FSB officers who have since left the FSB have said the same - the blasts were used as a pre-text to re-invade Chechnya

Without the blasts, there was no way the Russians could whip up enough public support for another war having lost the previous one

 

[Keltoi]

Im not a supporter of 9-11 conspiracy theories - however if we look at Russia we see that such an event wouldnt have been a first

most non-goverment analysts - russian and western- believe that it was the FSB that was behind the Russian apartment blasts in 1999 ( Russias own 9-11)

Russian FSB officers were actually caught by some local police officials planting bombs in more apartments and FSB officers who have since left the FSB have said the same - the blasts were used as a pre-text to re-invade Chechnya

Without the blasts, there was no way the Russians could whip up enough public support for another war having lost the previous one

I don't know much about the Russian apartment bombings, but taking the current state of the Russian government into consideration, nothing would shock me.

 

[Muezzin]

I agree with what you're saying about the Russians trying to frame the Chechens two posts above this one, but it's not really pertaining to the topic. It would be an excellent separate thread.

 

[SATalha]

In my opinion Russia has done many things to justify the chechen war, they need it so that they can get public and international support. Islamic terrorism? It was non-existant, they have oil reserves in that region amongst other things.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Before "terrorism" loses all meaning, I think it's important to remember what it does in fact mean. Use of force against civilians to scare and terrorize them, usually for a political agenda.

Yes, any hostage taking is terrorism. So is the US shock and awe campaign.

It is also important to recognize that "Is this Terrorism" and "Is this wrong" are two separate questions.

 

[Chechnya]

It is also important to recognize that "Is this Terrorism" and "Is this wrong" are two separate questions.

Isnt all terrorism supposed to be wrong - at least in the west?

 

[barney]

Taking Innocents hostage. Check
Threatening their lives . Check
Political and Religious aims. Check

Just hit all the lights on Terrorist.

Its a no-brainer

 

[Keltoi]

Isnt all terrorism supposed to be wrong - at least in the west?

As a matter of principle, any intentional targeting of civilians to inspire terror is an act of terrorism and is considered a bad thing. I'm not sure what Pygo's point was, but I assume he was making a distinction between terrorism as a tactic and the morality that judges it. Not sure.

 

[snakelegs]

Isnt all terrorism supposed to be wrong - at least in the west?

as long as governments do it, it's not called that.

 

[barney]

I think you would have to have Tony Blair saying something like " OK, Go into the marketplaces and just gun anything that moves...more deaths the better"


OOhh...Wait a min...Thats the Jihadists....My bad

 

[Chechen]

Taking Innocents hostage. Check
Threatening their lives . Check
Political and Religious aims. Check

Just hit all the lights on Terrorist.

Its a no-brainer

No one ever threatened their lives and religion had nothing to do with it.. People seem to think that the rebels did what they did because they enjoy it. I'm sure they took no pleasure in doing what they did but they didn't have any other way, they didn't have the choice, it was either do that and stop the death of thousands of people or either not do it but have your whole nation wiped out aswell as yourself.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

It all depends on the situation I geuss. If it's a geurilla group abducting dhimmi's it's defenitly a sin. Obviously one can't take non-combatants as hostage either, that would be blackmail. But if it's two groups who are at war, then it's only natural for one group to take the other as hostage when they meet them. In fact taking the enemy as hostage as opposed to killing him is a sign of mercy then.

I don't know, and Allah subhana wa ta'ala knows best

 

[barney]

Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
Taking Innocents hostage. Check
Threatening their lives . Check
Political and Religious aims. Check

Just hit all the lights on Terrorist.

Its a no-brainer


No one ever threatened their lives and religion had nothing to do with it.

fighters storm a hospital , take over a thousand hostages and threaten to blow it up if the war isnt stopped.

Ahh yeah, Sorry, I thought for a second blowing a hospital with 1000people in it up was dangerous. My mistake.

 

[جوري]

You are so full of feelings Barney!... we are humbled by your flood of emotions and concern... pls take a moment (or longer) of silence for all the victims of Virginia Tech.. and spare us your sardonic comments for a day... we are no longer in the 5th grade.. I doubt you are achieving anything with your comments... How about you run for a seat in the parliament where you can really put your two cents to work.

Peace!

 

[Chechen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
Taking Innocents hostage. Check
Threatening their lives . Check
Political and Religious aims. Check

Just hit all the lights on Terrorist.

Its a no-brainer


No one ever threatened their lives and religion had nothing to do with it.




Ahh yeah, Sorry, I thought for a second blowing a hospital with 1000people in it up was dangerous. My mistake.

They never planned to blow up anyone they just said that to scare the Russians and force them to stop the war. If they really wanted to blow someone up they could just go in the street and do it, why take all the trouble to take over a hospital and stuff. They came to the hospital saying stop the genocide in Chechnya or we'll blow everyone up which they wouldn't do because they wouldn't have achieved anything by doing that but they had to say something to stress the Russians a little. Obviously Russians like killing women and children too much and weren't going to accept the Chechens' terms so easy so they began to storm the building during which they started to throw hand grenades into the building! Obviously that killed a lot of people in the hospital and the people were actually a lot more safer in the hospital before the Russians started their "rescue". So the Chechens aren't responsible for any of the deaths in the hospital because they're not responsible for the Russian's stupidity.

 

[doodlebug]

The Islamic position - does anyone know what religious leaders say on it?

If the hostage-takers were denied what they wanted and God-forbid, were 'forced' to do what they threatened, wouldn't that be haraam...seeing as you're not allowed to take the lives of innocents?

Has anyone answered this yet?

 

[barney]

They never planned to blow up anyone .

Then why carry explosives and weapons into the place? Did they mistake it for an arms fair where they were going to sell them on, or were they responding to a weapons amnesty and mistook the hospital for a police station.

To the Hospital Hijackers:
How about this for ending the war? Use the guns and explosives to attack military targets of the russian army. Then you can call yourself freedom fighters or rebels and nobody thinks of you as murdering terrorist pondlife.

Quick answer...because attacking people who can shoot back requires some guts, and the idea that a democracy will capitulate if it's people react in horror at the slaughter of it's innocents is one that all terrorists subscribe to.

The big problem is Russia isnt a real democracy. It's leaders dont really care about their own people. You could bomb them from january till christmas every year and it wont change a thing except make them dig their heels in further and react violently against it.

I beleive that you might try the diplomatic route (like northen Ireland did) or the Non-compliant route (like India). That works.

Or is it really that, (until 1990) the "Great Satan" was the USSR? And a dead infidel is a good infidel?

 

[SilentObserver]

Barney,
It is pointless to argue with the supporters of murderers in this thread. All the same arguements are presented as they were presented in support of the pigs that murdered the children of Beslan. It is best to abandon this fruitless discussion. They are irrational, and that seems unlikely to be changed.