Are we gods?

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Shalom,

For reasons involving clarity, may I assume that your belief is that these people will have no hope, and will "burn" forever?

and peace to you
I have already stated in various posts, that though I believe Islam to be the last and final revelation -- I have no idea who is going where. I can't assume to think what will happen on the day of Judgement or make choices for G-D.. I think it a great transgression--- don't you? I tend to not enjoy questions headed in that direction--
In accordance with the teachings of Islam Shirk in any form is a cardinal sin... and each soul is held in pledge by its own deeds no one is responsible for another... I don't want to turn this into a difficult permutation.. it isn't my job in this world to draw conclusions about the fates of other people-- it is my job to live it holding on the moral compass as directed by Islam.

The views of Judaism on the righteous who follow the 7 Noahaide laws don't mean much to me, or leave me with any sort of comfort ( perhaps they do to other members?) or make Judaism seem less rigid than Islam? I don't know... I do know that even the companions of the prophet didn't take heaven for granted. I don't know how anyone can securely sit there directing and funneling traffic in the hereafter...stating the fates of babies, women, children or newly appointed saints-- is simply outside of the human sphere.....

BTW-- just for fun, I wanted to add there are many different types of hell... one of them is called (zamhareer) which is supposed to the cold Hell. Its cold is so vehement that it cannot be endured for even a moment... Hope it blows a dent in the usual ideas ppl have of hell?-- for it is like heaven beyond our comprehension--
يَسْأَلُونَكَ عَنِ السَّاعَةِ أَيَّانَ مُرْسَاهَا {42}
[Pickthal 79:42] They ask thee of the Hour: when will it come to port?

فِيمَ أَنتَ مِن ذِكْرَاهَا {43}
[Pickthal 79:43] Why (ask they)? What hast thou to tell thereof?

إِلَى رَبِّكَ مُنتَهَاهَا {44}​
[Pickthal 79:44] Unto thy Lord belongeth (knowledge of) the term thereof.

إِنَّمَا أَنتَ مُنذِرُ مَن يَخْشَاهَا {45}
[Pickthal 79:45] Thou art but a warner unto him who feareth it.

كَأَنَّهُمْ يَوْمَ يَرَوْنَهَا لَمْ يَلْبَثُوا إِلَّا عَشِيَّةً أَوْ ضُحَاهَا {46}
[Pickthal 79:46] On the day when they behold it, it will be as if they had but tarried for an evening or the morn thereof.


*****

peace
 
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Salaam/peace ,


So am I to assume the definition of sin in Islam is "those who associated partners with God Alimighty"? This means all other ungodly behavior is not sin but something less, perhaps human error, poor judgement, etc?



there are minor sins & major sins. The most major/ serious sin is to deny the Oneness of God/ set up partners with God.

Those who commit this major sin & die without sincere repentance , they are supposed to be in a hot place forever

other sinners may remain in there for 5 , 10, 30 , 100 yrs.....depends on will & mercy of God. At last , they will be able to come out of fire :statisfie :D

Bible also tells u that God is very jealous & will take revenge if u worship any diety besides God. So , we all should be very , very careful about our belief . We must worship God only & not His creation i.e human being or angel
 
God is one, though he has no form so the theory of Jesus is God, goes out of the window!
 
Shalom Eleichem,
I have already stated in various posts, that though I believe Islam to be the last and final revelation -- I have no idea who is going where. I can't assume to think what will happen on the day of Judgement or make choices for G-D.. I think it a great transgression--- don't you? I tend to not enjoy questions headed in that direction--
In accordance with the teachings of Islam Shirk in any form is a cardinal sin... and each soul is held in pledge by its own deeds no one is responsible for another... I don't want to turn this into a difficult permutation.. it isn't my job in this world to draw conclusions about the fates of other people-- it is my job to live it holding on the moral compass as directed by Islam.
That is quite fair enough. The last thing which I wish to impose on you to do, is for you to transgress a law according to your spiritual viewpoint, consequently, I will not seek additional clarification.

The views of Judaism on the righteous who follow the 7 Noahaide laws don't mean much to me, or leave me with any sort of comfort ( perhaps they do to other members?) or make Judaism seem less rigid than Islam? I don't know... I do know that even the companions of the prophet didn't take heaven for granted. I don't know how anyone can securely sit there directing and funneling traffic in the hereafter...stating the fates of babies, women, children or newly appointed saints-- is simply outside of the human sphere.....
I would have to make the point, that we view justice as very different things. Judaism's seven laws of Noah are necessary because a core belief of ours is that G-d only asks of us, to which he commanded our ancestors. The entire world, which descends from Noah is expected to follow the seven laws, that Noah waa given and passed on to his children, which is how I believe stories similar to the flood were recorded by other societies but later twisted to create faith in paganism. The Jewish people received proof for the extra amount of laws they received on Mt. Sinai, by way of an entire nation hearing G-d, (according to our religious scripture of course) which demonstrates proof at the same required level, for a certain nation to follow even more specified laws, which the Torah commands us to follow for eternity. Of course any non-Jew who wishes to take upon these commandments by way of conversion is allowed, although, in the majority of cases, a convert to Judaism accomplishes only the increase in responsibility he has in G-d's eyes, yet usually does not change many aspects from his previous life style, which has led to Jewish Rabbi's making conversion a serious process so those committed will be the ones who go through with it, which in the long run, benefits those non-Jews who would not have followed Judaism properly after converting.

Now, with a background on the seven laws, the Jewish sense of justice is very different than Islam's, I presume. Judaism believes in the elevation of the soul, and holds of the analysis that it is inconceivable that one can be discarded by G-d forever, if they did not commit major transgressions which may lead to eternal isolation. A misconception is that everyone does not pay for their sins according to Judaism, which on the contrary, all pay for every deed on this earth they committed in different ways. The only way to get to heaven is through elavation of the soul, which means that reincarnation, and too have to experience life all over again, to learn new lessons (Example: A man who lacked patients, will have an autistic child to elevate his soul and complete his task.) and accomplish them. If you want more background on Judaism’s view of hell, please inquire.

Justice is always served; our belief is that all judgment is according to intentions, deeds, and belief. However, none of them utterly define what your path is in the next life. Every case is different, and not one person has the same circumstances, which could very well lead a pagan native America to heaven or closer to heaven, then an unobservant Jew. We never know.

BTW-- just for fun, I wanted to add there are many different types of hell... one of them is called (zamhareer) which is supposed to the cold Hell. Its cold is so vehement that it cannot be endured for even a moment... Hope it blows a dent in the usual ideas ppl have of hell?-- for it is like heaven beyond our comprehension--
There are diverse levels of hell in Judaism as well, though I am not acquainted with them.

other sinners may remain in there for 5 , 10, 30 , 100 yrs.....depends on will & mercy of God. At last , they will be able to come out of fire

Shalom,

Is their a source in Islam for that statement? I find it interesting.

Bible also tells u that God is very jealous & will take revenge if u worship any diety besides God. So , we all should be very , very careful about our belief . We must worship God only & not His creation i.e human being or angel

G-d has no emotions, the emotions used to describe G-d in the Torah are only used so humans, who cannot concieve the actual notion of G-d have an idea of what G-d's actions represent in human terms.
 
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Aslaam 'Alykoum Rav:

Whereas I don't agree with your views on reincarnation... further don't believe that from anyone's sin shall another man suffer or be rewarded... (I don't tend to favor thoughts or view someone who has a child with say Autism as a direct result of something untoward they have done in their previous life-- and therefore such a child is a punishment ) rather it is their decreed destiny in this world. (Tribulations are the lot of man)...

I do definitely believe in justice.. and it can be summed nicely in this chapter in the Quran included at the bottom... I have pretty much spoken in depth that even some known tyrants would be granted some respite on certain days where they have done a good deed.. But I don't wish to go any further into that, as in supporting it with quotes-- on the account that I have allergies which consequently inhibit me from concentrating too long on a computer screen, without my eyes itching and watering... I have profound respect with the level you handle yourself in a debate-- we have differing opinions as understood from our respective faiths--
We don't differ in the view that one will be held accountable for everything good or bad they have done..

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
إِذَا زُلْزِلَتِ الْأَرْضُ زِلْزَالَهَا {1}
[Pickthal 99:1] When Earth is shaken with her (final) earthquake

وَأَخْرَجَتِ الْأَرْضُ أَثْقَالَهَا {2}
[Pickthal 99:2] And Earth yieldeth up her burdens,

وَقَالَ الْإِنسَانُ مَا لَهَا {3}
[Pickthal 99:3] And man saith: What aileth her?

يَوْمَئِذٍ تُحَدِّثُ أَخْبَارَهَا {4}
[Pickthal 99:4] That day she will relate her chronicles,

بِأَنَّ رَبَّكَ أَوْحَى لَهَا {5}
[Pickthal 99:5] Because thy Lord inspireth her.

يَوْمَئِذٍ يَصْدُرُ النَّاسُ أَشْتَاتًا لِّيُرَوْا أَعْمَالَهُمْ {6}
[Pickthal 99:6] That day mankind will issue forth in scattered groups to be shown their deeds.

فَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ خَيْرًا يَرَهُ {7}
[Pickthal 99:7] And whoso doeth good an atom's weight will see it then,

وَمَن يَعْمَلْ مِثْقَالَ ذَرَّةٍ شَرًّا يَرَهُ {8}
[Pickthal 99:8] And whoso doeth ill an atom's weight will see it then.


*****
wasslaam Alykoum

Addendum

as per your last addition---The laws of humanity don't apply to a supreme being (this whole concept of anthropomorphism) is truly a transgression and unbefitting of the magistrate of G-D... I am somewhat baffled at some of the verses in the bible-- there are no such verses in the Quran (jealousy, rage, hatred, etc etc) are human traits -- that is all I can impart on that subject.

:w:
 
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Shalom Eleichem again,
Whereas I don't agree with your views on reincarnation... further don't believe that from anyone's man sin shall another suffer or another be rewarded... (I don't tend to favor thoughts or view as a punishment someone who say has a child with Autism for something untoward they have done in say a past life) rather than just their decreed destiny in this world Tribulations are the lot of man)... I do definitely believe in justice.. and it can be summed nicely in this chapter in the Quran included at the bottom... I have pretty much spoken in depth that even some known tyrants would be granted some respite on certain days where they have done a good deed.. But I don't wish to go any further into that, as in supporting it with quotes-- on the account that I have allergies which consequently inhibit me from concentrating too long on a computer screen, without my eyes itching and watering... I have profound respect with the level you handle yourself in a debate-- we have differing opinions as understood from our respective faiths--
Thank you for your generous praise. If I may, I would like to clear up a notion which you may have misperceived. The first topic, I may have presented in a confusing way, resting on the assumption that other knowledge in Judaism is known, which isn’t the case. As a result, I offer my humble apologies.

When one has a family who has an adolescent with autism, not one individual in that circumstance is devoid of purpose or a role to take part in the process of elevating our soul. The example I used is a complex one. The parents in this situation have a certain objective to achieve by having a child with such difficulties. The goal could be a variety of things which could build the character and the overall development of your persona, and the genuine qualities which your soul must encompass, to enter heaven. The child on the other hand has a purpose as well, and a specific goal he must attain to elevate his soul. The state of which his mentality was created is far different than the average brain function, thus, humanity views his responsibilities in life as far less. In the identical way that a man born into a poor family has fewer responsibilities in life when compared to someone G-d placed into a very rich family, a child born with mental disabilities in certain areas has far less expected on him by G-d, hence, his soul is almost at the height of attaining heaven, and his purpose to be sent back into this world is one that is either very specific, or an overall refinement into certain attributes which do not require the child to go into a great deal of depth. The difference in our views of such a process lies in the method we view the afterlife in general. If one does not believe in the reincarnation process of Judaism “gilgul” (which is far different from the pagan views of reincarnation) then the view that G-d could send a child with autism to a family to teach a lesson is one of barbarism, since life and its enjoyment can only be attained once. If your views are akin to mine, then the concept of a child be sent back to this world with autism, or the view that G-d explicitly sends countless to be born into poor families, is that these are actually blessings, because the less responsibilities you have in life, this means that your soul is at a high enough level, in which one is not anticipated to do remarkable things to elevate it because the less work it in fact needs on it is low because previous deeds in other lives propelled it to its current height. If I may with G-d's help quote Mishlei (Proverbs) 23:3, it states something which may have some connection to the theme our topic, I will let you analyze its correlation to our discussion if you wish:
"Do not desire his delicacies, for it is bread of lies."
(Proverbs 23:3)
People who are blessed with unimaginable riches in this world are held accountable that much more for how they lived their lives, and how they used these blessings towards the goal of “tikkun olam” which means repairing the world.

I agree we have differing opinions on a variety of issues regarding the afterlife, as you’re in similar in many ways much more to the Christian view of the next world. I hope our faiths can still retain a mutual understanding of each other, and I pray that all Jews and Non-Jews utilize their purpose on this earth and we are able to direct our differing paths to the same goal, which is paradise.

as per your last addition---The laws of humanity don't apply to a supreme being (this whole concept of anthropomorphism) is truly a transgression and unbefitting of the magistrate of G-D... I am somewhat baffled at some of the verses in the bible-- there are no such verses in the Quran (jealousy, rage, hatred, etc etc) are human traits -- that is all I can impart on that subject.

These uses of human traits are to help humanity understand a certain action G-d is performing on our own terms of defining G-d, since our minds cannot comprehend the infinite being that is Hashem. The best example I can cite is this:
"Angry" is not at all meant literally, not more than when it says "the hand of Hashem" etc. It is merely a moshol. Hashem has no emotions. He does not get angry. But just as "Yad Hashem" represents when Hashem acts in a way that we would associate with out hand, so too "af Hashem" does not mean hashem gets angry but rather His actions are similar to what we would normally associate with as coming from anger.
When we say Hashem gets "angry" or Hashem "loves" it is not meant literally. It means that Hashem acts in such a way that it feels to us like He is angry or emotionally happy. Kind of like when you say about your compute that "it doesn’t like this software" - you don’t mean the computer has emotion; you mean that the computer acted in a way that makes you feel as if it didn’t like the software. So too when we say Hashem likes or doesn’t like something, we do not mean it literally - we only mean that Hashem acts in a way that feels to us as if He liked or disliked something.
 
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God is one, though he has no form so the theory of Jesus is God, goes out of the window!
That is true god is a Spirit and He is Holy; therefore to me, He is the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that God can do anything He wills? If not, I understand where you are coming from. If yes, do you think he can turn His word into flesh and blood? I do!!
 
Shalom Eleichem again,

Thank you for your generous praise. If I may, I would like to clear up a notion which you may have misperceived. The first topic, I may have presented in a confusing way, resting on the assumption that other knowledge in Judaism is known, which isn’t the case. As a result, I offer my humble apologies.

When one has a family who has an adolescent with autism, not one individual in that circumstance is devoid of purpose or a role to take part in the process of elevating our soul. The example I used is a complex one. The parents in this situation have a certain objective to achieve by having a child with such difficulties. The goal could be a variety of things which could build the character and the overall development of your persona, and the genuine qualities which your soul must encompass, to enter heaven. The child on the other hand has a purpose as well, and a specific goal he must attain to elevate his soul. The state of which his mentality was created is far different than the average brain function, thus, humanity views his responsibilities in life as far less. In the identical way that a man born into a poor family has fewer responsibilities in life when compared to someone G-d placed into a very rich family, a child born with mental disabilities in certain areas has far less expected on him by G-d, hence, his soul is almost at the height of attaining heaven, and his purpose to be sent back into this world is one that is either very specific, or an overall refinement into certain attributes which do not require the child to go into a great deal of depth. The difference in our views of such a process lies in the method we view the afterlife in general. If one does not believe in the reincarnation process of Judaism “gilgul” (which is far different from the pagan views of reincarnation) then the view that G-d could send a child with autism to a family to teach a lesson is one of barbarism, since life and its enjoyment can only be attained once. If your views are akin to mine, then the concept of a child be sent back to this world with autism, or the view that G-d explicitly sends countless to be born into poor families, is that these are actually blessings, because the less responsibilities you have in life, this means that your soul is at a high enough level, in which one is not anticipated to do remarkable things to elevate it because the less work it in fact needs on it is low because previous deeds in other lives propelled it to its current height. If I may with G-d's help quote Mishlei (Proverbs) 23:3, it states something which may have some connection to the theme our topic, I will let you analyze its correlation to our discussion if you wish:
"Do not desire his delicacies, for it is bread of lies."
(Proverbs 23:3)
People who are blessed with unimaginable riches in this world are held accountable that much more for how they lived their lives, and how they used these blessings towards the goal of “tikkun olam” which means repairing the world.

I agree we have differing opinions on a variety of issues regarding the afterlife, as you’re in similar in many ways much more to the Christian view of the next world. I hope our faiths can still retain a mutual understanding of each other, and I pray that all Jews and Non-Jews utilize their purpose on this earth and we are able to direct our differing paths to the same goal, which is paradise.



These uses of human traits are to help humanity understand a certain action G-d is performing on our own terms of defining G-d, since our minds cannot comprehend the infinite being that is Hashem. The best example I can cite is this:
"Angry" is not at all meant literally, not more than when it says "the hand of Hashem" etc. It is merely a moshol. Hashem has no emotions. He does not get angry. But just as "Yad Hashem" represents when Hashem acts in a way that we would associate with out hand, so too "af Hashem" does not mean hashem gets angry but rather His actions are similar to what we would normally associate with as coming from anger.
When we say Hashem gets "angry" or Hashem "loves" it is not meant literally. It means that Hashem acts in such a way that it feels to us like He is angry or emotionally happy. Kind of like when you say about your compute that "it doesn’t like this software" - you don’t mean the computer has emotion; you mean that the computer acted in a way that makes you feel as if it didn’t like the software. So too when we say Hashem likes or doesn’t like something, we do not mean it literally - we only mean that Hashem acts in a way that feels to us as if He liked or disliked something.

Salaam Alykoum Rav:
I meant you no flattery..I spoke my mind on what I believed to be true of your person :)
Now--
I agree with you on two points
1- those who have more, have more to account for-- being rich or poor is both a test to us, and how we deal with it. I wanted to share these views on sickness in Islam from an Islamic point of view as say a family having a child born with a particular debilitating disease, its down side and its rewards.

Fiqh As-Sunnah
Sickness
Sickness, Expiation of Sins:
There are many hadith which explain that sickness expiates evil deeds and wipes out sins. Of these, some are given below:
Abu Hurairah narrates that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "When Allah wants to be good to someone, He tries him with some hardship."

Abu Hurairah also reports that Allah's Messenger, peace be upon him, said: "For every misfortune, illness, anxiety, grief, or hurt that afflicts a Muslim -even the hurt caused by the pricking of a thorn - Allah removes some of his sins." Ibn Mas'ud said: "I visited the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, while he had a fever. I exclaimed: 'O Messenger of Allah! You have a high fever! ' He said: 'My fever is as much as two among you [might have]. ' I asked: 'Is it because you have a double reward?' He replied: 'Yes, that is right. No Muslim is afflicted with any hurt, even if it is no more than the pricking of a thorn, but Allah wipes off his sins because of it and his sins fall away from him as leaves fall from a tree'."

Abu Hurairah said: "The Prophet, peace be upon him, remarked: 'The example of a believer is like a fresh tender plant; from whichever direction the wind blows, it bends the plant. But when the wind dies down, it straightens up again. (Similarly a believer is tested by afflictions to strengthen his faith and heart, and he remains patient and firm). And an evil person is like a pine tree which remains hard and stiff until Allah breaks it whenever He wills."

Patience During Illness:
Anyone suffering from an illness should remain patient, for there is no reward better or more enriching than that reserved for those who endure in patience.

Suhaib ibn Sinan narrated that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "How remarkable is the case of the believer! There is good for him in everything, but this is not the case for anyone except for the believer. When the believer receives any good, he is thankful to Allah, and gets a reward. And when some misfortune befalls him, he endures it patiently, for which he is (also) rewarded."

Anas narrates: "I heard the Prophet, peace be upon him, saying: 'Allah says: "When I afflict a servant of mine with respect to his two most beloved things (meaning his eyes), and he endures it patiently, I grant him paradise in return'."

'Ata ibn Rabah related that he heard Ibn 'Abbas say: "Shall I show you a woman of Paradise?"I said: "Yes, indeed." He said: "A black woman came to the Prophet, peace be upon him, and said: 'I suffer from epileptic fits, and because of these, (at times) my body becomes uncovered. Would you invoke Allah, the Exalted One, to cure me of this disease? ' The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: 'If you wish, you can be patient and you will attain Paradise (for this suffering). But if you prefer, I will pray to Allah, the Exalted, to cure you of it?' The woman said: 'I will be patient,' then added: 'I become uncovered (when I have fits), so invoke Allah for me that I do not become uncovered. ' So the Prophet, peace be upon him, prayed for her."

To Complain of One's Illness:
It is permitted for a patient to complain of his pain and illness to a physician or a friend, provided he does not do so to express his or her anger or impatience. It was mentioned earlier that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "My fever is as severe as that of any two of you." Once 'Aisha complained to the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, about her headache, lamenting: "O my head." He retorted: "Nay, rather (I should say) O my head!" Likewise it is reported that 'Abdullah ibn Al-Zubair asked his ailing mother, Asma bint Abi Bakr, "How are you feeling now?" She replied: "I am in pain."

A patient should thank and praise Allah, before talking about his distress and complaint Ibn Mas'ud said: "If one thanks Allah before complaining about his pain or disease, then it is not considered impatience. Indeed, to refer one's complaint to Allah, is quite lawful." Jacob (the prophet), said: "I complain of my distraction and anguish only to Allah." The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, himself prayed: "O Allah! to You I complain of my weakness."

A Sick Person is Rewarded for All the Good Deeds that He Would (usually) Perform in a State of Health:
Abu Musa al-Ash'ari reports that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "If a servant (of Allah) falls sick or goes on a journey, he (continues to be) rewarded for the good deeds that he used to do when he was healthy or at home."

Visiting the Sick:
It is Islamic etiquette to visit a sick Muslim, to provide him moral support, and to make sure that he or she is well taken care of.

Ibn 'Abbas said: "The first visit to a sick person is sunnah, while any subsequent visit is a voluntary act (a good deed)." Abu Musa reported that the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "Feed the hungry, visit the sick, and free the captives."

The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "A Muslim has six obligations to another Muslim." "What are these?" they asked. He replied: "To greet another Muslim when you meet him; to respond when he invites you; to give him your (sincerest) advice when he seeks it; to say 'may Allah have mercy upon you' when he sneezes and says ' may Allah be praised '; to visit him when he falls ill; and when he dies, to attend his funeral



2- Last point I agree with you on, is that, something are certainly meant in an allegorical sense...G-D all seeing, or his to hold on to his hands. I certainly wouldn't attribute human traits to G-D.. We are created for a certain purpose... I have no doubt he loves the good... and I don't take that to mean "emotions" as a complex net of nuclei in arising from the amygdala. Just like a decades ago people didn't even know what an amygdala is.. I believe G-D is far beyond our scope... this level of ingenuity, engineering and aesthetics from the tiniest cell to the grandest galaxy is far beyond what I can put in words. So I won't even bother giving it a try. We were given so little knowledge.. so it says in the Quran.. and so I believe!



peace
 
That is true god is a Spirit and He is Holy; therefore to me, He is the Holy Spirit. Do you believe that God can do anything He wills? If not, I understand where you are coming from. If yes, do you think he can turn His word into flesh and blood? I do!!

Allah(swt) is capable of doing as he wills.

That is not the question, the question is, is Isa(as), God(swt)

There is no eveidence or statement outside of the Bible that would indicate that to be true.

The problem is there is no evidence the Bible is the Truth. Although, the Bible does retain some truth, over all the Bible is not the word of God(swt).
 
Allah(swt) is capable of doing as he wills.

That is not the question, the question is, is Isa(as), God(swt)

There is no eveidence or statement outside of the Bible that would indicate that to be true.

The problem is there is no evidence the Bible is the Truth. Although, the Bible does retain some truth, over all the Bible is not the word of God(swt).
Would you address this: The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. The Most High is Allah. If we are gods and children of the Most High, it shouldn't sound strange that God is a begetter and Jesus is His only Begotten Son. Muslims don't believe we are gods. And it is shirk to be partners with Allah (swt). Allah is the most High and none is like Him. Muslims believe the Bible/Gospel is not the original copy but still contains some truth. Whatever is accordance with the Qur'an is accepted and what is not is rejected. They believe that Allah does not beget nor is He begotten. It is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Psalms and the gospels, however, that Muslims pray that they must believe in, and if not, they are not following Allah's will. God’s word cannot be changed. Neither can the fact that Allah said, "Ye are gods." God made us in His image and likeness. Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law Ye are gods then why do you say I blaspheme because I say I am the Son of God?" I would like for Muslims to answer this question they conveniently don’t seem to believe by saying the Bible is of no authority. If you don't accept that Allah said, "You are gods," you are rejecting Allah's word. Muslims also believe The Bible has been changed a lot over time, but it has NOT change. There are just different translations, and some are better than others, but that is not to stop people from researching the original text in Hebrew and Greek. If you do, you will find that Allah said, “Ye are gods.” So don't think me strange or that I am presumptuous when I say that “I am a friend of God, and I know that I have eternal life,” but you are not sure you have it. The Bible was written according to Scripture so that we could know that we have salvation and that is only in His Son the only way to Allah according to the Scriptures. It is a good idea to look at and meditate on Psalm 82. I did and Allah showed me great and wonderful things that I know not. I am not trying to preach, but you pray to Allah in one of your prayers that you will accept the books one of those books are the gospel of John. look at Jn. chap 10 : 36
 
Would you address this: The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. The Most High is Allah. If we are gods and children of the Most High, it shouldn't sound strange that God is a begetter and Jesus is His only Begotten Son. Muslims don't believe we are gods. And it is shirk to be partners with Allah (swt). Allah is the most High and none is like Him. Muslims believe the Bible/Gospel is not the original copy but still contains some truth. Whatever is accordance with the Qur'an is accepted and what is not is rejected. They believe that Allah does not beget nor is He begotten. It is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Psalms and the gospels, however, that Muslims pray that they must believe in, and if not, they are not following Allah's will. God’s word cannot be changed. Neither can the fact that Allah said, "Ye are gods." God made us in His image and likeness. Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law Ye are gods then why do you say I blaspheme because I say I am the Son of God?" I would like for Muslims to answer this question they conveniently don’t seem to believe by saying the Bible is of no authority. If you don't accept that Allah said, "You are gods," you are rejecting Allah's word. Muslims also believe The Bible has been changed a lot over time, but it has NOT change. There are just different translations, and some are better than others, but that is not to stop people from researching the original text in Hebrew and Greek. If you do, you will find that Allah said, “Ye are gods.” So don't think me strange or that I am presumptuous when I say that “I am a friend of God, and I know that I have eternal life,” but you are not sure you have it. The Bible was written according to Scripture so that we could know that we have salvation and that is only in His Son the only way to Allah according to the Scriptures. It is a good idea to look at and meditate on Psalm 82. I did and Allah showed me great and wonderful things that I know not. I am not trying to preach, but you pray to Allah in one of your prayers that you will accept the books one of those books are the gospel of John. look at Jn. chap 10 : 36
The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods;
why do you keep repeating same old lying rubbish time and again? I asked you before to show me how you came up with this mistranslation and you ignored me. I ask again show me"

ו אֲנִי-אָמַרְתִּי, אֱלֹהִים אַתֶּם; וּבְנֵי עֶלְיוֹן כֻּלְּכֶם
 
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I understand how you could feel that way. They are not contradictory. Yes, I believe that I have the truth and so do the Muslims believe they have the truth, and yes I am trying to learn about Islam, so I can be more effect in my witness of Jesus. I was hoping to scratch down deep enough for them to see the truth about Jesus (That He is the only hope to glory and not just a mere prophet) I hope you can understand this. I care about my Muslim brothers and sisters, and I know they feel the same way about me; however, we can't both be right. I will never stop trying to reach them and share the wonderful mercy and forgiveness I have received from Allah through Jesus. He has given me the assurance of salvation, and I want them to have this too. So help me God that is my only motive. Unfortunately, however, in the process of doing this, I come off as abrasive and contradictory, but that is not what I want.

oh. so basically, you are here to "promote a religion other than islam".
 
Would you address this: The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. The Most High is Allah. If we are gods and children of the Most High, it shouldn't sound strange that God is a begetter and Jesus is His only Begotten Son. Muslims don't believe we are gods. And it is shirk to be partners with Allah (swt). Allah is the most High and none is like Him. Muslims believe the Bible/Gospel is not the original copy but still contains some truth. Whatever is accordance with the Qur'an is accepted and what is not is rejected. They believe that Allah does not beget nor is He begotten. It is the first 5 books of the Bible, the Psalms and the gospels, however, that Muslims pray that they must believe in, and if not, they are not following Allah's will. God’s word cannot be changed. Neither can the fact that Allah said, "Ye are gods." God made us in His image and likeness. Jesus said, “Is it not written in your law Ye are gods then why do you say I blaspheme because I say I am the Son of God?" I would like for Muslims to answer this question they conveniently don’t seem to believe by saying the Bible is of no authority. If you don't accept that Allah said, "You are gods," you are rejecting Allah's word. Muslims also believe The Bible has been changed a lot over time, but it has NOT change. There are just different translations, and some are better than others, but that is not to stop people from researching the original text in Hebrew and Greek. If you do, you will find that Allah said, “Ye are gods.” So don't think me strange or that I am presumptuous when I say that “I am a friend of God, and I know that I have eternal life,” but you are not sure you have it. The Bible was written according to Scripture so that we could know that we have salvation and that is only in His Son the only way to Allah according to the Scriptures. It is a good idea to look at and meditate on Psalm 82. I did and Allah showed me great and wonderful things that I know not. I am not trying to preach, but you pray to Allah in one of your prayers that you will accept the books one of those books are the gospel of John. look at Jn. chap 10 : 36

With all due respect. All of your arguements are based on your belief that the Bible as you know it is the Truth. I and all Muslims believe that the current Bible is distorted and is not the word of Allah(swt) as such it is worthless as a reference source.
 
Would you address this: The Bible says in Psalms 82 that you are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High.
Shalom alapiana1,

Why do you continue to ignore the blatent evidence of your incorrect statement? The Hebrew clearly translates to "angelic creatures". I do not know why you insist on twisting G-d's word in this instance, but you are clearly doing wrong. This passage (Psalm 82) was actually chanted by the Levites in the Bais Hamikdash (HolyTemple) every Tuesday, and each Tuesday it is chanted during a certain point of Jewish prayers. Anyone who understands Hebrew would clearly laugh at your "translation" if it could be called such.

I pray you will cease from using this verse from whatever agenda you hold.

Salaam Alykoum Rav:
I meant you no flattery..I spoke my mind on what I believed to be true of your person
Shalom PurestAmbrosia,

Thank you for your comment then. Your post was very interesting, and the Islamic standpoint is also intriguing, regardless of whether I concur with it or not.

Thank you for your time, and effort in finding the appropriate passages to cite here.
 
With all due respect. All of your arguements are based on your belief that the Bible as you know it is the Truth. I and all Muslims believe that the current Bible is distorted and is not the word of Allah(swt) as such it is worthless as a reference source.

Muhammad didn't believe that the whole Bible was worthless. If that is the case why do you pledge your payer to accept the books which include the gospel of John. In other words, why do you offer up to Allah prayers that you don't mean to keep because you don't believe the Bible is valid or why would it be a required prayer in that case. Look up John in the original text where Jesus did said or ask "Did I not say in your law ye are gods, so why do you say I blaspheme because I claim to be the Son of God?" What you are saying makes no sense to me. Besides I feel the same way about the Koran as you do about the Bible. In other words, I don't recognize its authority over me or the prophet Muhammad for that matter, but you do see Jesus as a valid prophet how could you just blow off His words as being invalid? I believe Jesus would rather have you totally reject Him and His authority over your life rather than say you honor him in the way you do. If fact, I don't even see how you are honoring the Islam faith, because according to it, you are suppose to honor the gospels, but instead you say it is not valid. What honor is there in that? You have me confused, and God is not the author of confusion. With all do respect, just what is the real deal here?
Peace
 
PS. I looked up what Jesus said in the original text and there is no mistake. He did say that. It is His word against Muhammad. The conflict is between these two prophets. I am honestly calling it the way I see it and to the very best of my ability and also through all the truth that has been revealed to me.
If you want to judge me and delete me or give me a penalty go ahead. Both of us will answer to Allah, and I don't care what the agnostics or atheist think about our dialogue. I respect the fact that you have made a decision to believe in one true God even as I do even though you won't give me that satisfaction.
 

Shalom alapiana1,

Why do you continue to ignore the blatent evidence of your incorrect statement? The Hebrew clearly translates to "angelic creatures". I do not know why you insist on twisting G-d's word in this instance, but you are clearly doing wrong. This passage (Psalm 82) was actually chanted by the Levites in the Bais Hamikdash (HolyTemple) every Tuesday, and each Tuesday it is chanted during a certain point of Jewish prayers. Anyone who understands Hebrew would clearly laugh at your "translation" if it could be called such.

I pray you will cease from using this verse from whatever agenda you hold.



Shalom PurestAmbrosia,

Thank you for your comment then. Your post was very interesting, and the Islamic standpoint is also intriguing, regardless of whether I concur with it or not.

Thank you for your time, and effort in finding the appropriate passages to cite here.


What blatant evidence are you referring to? "Angelic creatures" is only one ways to look at it - not every way. It also means godly, godlike, like God and goddess and mighty to that above angels +, which we will one day be. Jesus said, we will "judge angels." In the context it makes no sense to translate that as you are an angel like creatures and will die as men. Besides, angels were referred to as son of God to.
 
Muhammad didn't believe that the whole Bible was worthless. If that is the case why do you pledge your payer to accept the books which include the gospel of John. In other words, why do you offer up to Allah prayers that you don't mean to keep because you don't believe the Bible is valid or why would it be a required prayer in that case. Look up John in the original text where Jesus did said or ask "Did I not say in your law ye are gods, so why do you say I blaspheme because I claim to be the Son of God?" What you are saying makes no sense to me. Besides I feel the same way about the Koran as you do about the Bible. In other words, I don't recognize its authority over me or the prophet Muhammad for that matter, but you do see Jesus as a valid prophet how could you just blow off His words as being invalid? I believe Jesus would rather have you totally reject Him and His authority over your life rather than say you honor him in the way you do. If fact, I don't even see how you are honoring the Islam faith, because according to it, you are suppose to honor the gospels, but instead you say it is not valid. What honor is there in that? You have me confused, and God is not the author of confusion. With all do respect, just what is the real deal here?
Peace

Point to one place in the Qur'an, Ahadith or Tasfir that we " .... pledge your payer to accept the books which include the gospel of John."

We are to follow the Injil, which is not the Gospel of John.
 
None of our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: knowest thou not that Allah hath power over all things?

Surah Name Surah Verse
Al-Baqarah 2 106

we certainly aren't obliged to follow their "revelations" anymore than they follow those of the old T. Is this supposed to be some sort of a joke?...I don't know if it is the allergies speaking or I am really seeing the strange things I am seeing... how odd is this post!
 
Point to one place in the Qur'an, Ahadith or Tasfir that we " .... pledge your payer to accept the books which include the gospel of John."

We are to follow the Injil, which is not the Gospel of John.

Do you mean to tell me that one of the first prayers you pray is not in honor of the Torah, Psalms and the gospels?
 

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