Ezekiel's failed Prophecy Against Egypt

[back_to_faith]

In a four-chapter tirade against Egypt, Ezekiel said that Yahweh would give Nebuchadnezzar Egypt as "wages" for the labor he had expended on Tyre in an unsuccessful siege (29:19-20). The devastation of Egypt was to be complete. The land would be an "utter waste and a desolation" from Migdol (in the north) to the border of Ethiopia (in the south). So thorough would the devastation be that "neither foot of man nor foot of beast would pass through it, and it would be uninhabited for 40 years and the Egyptians scattered among the nations (29:9-12). At the end of the 40 years, Yahweh would gather the Egyptians back to their country from where they had been scattered, but Egypt would forever be "the lowliest of kingdoms" (v: 15). It would never "exalt itself above the nations" and would not "rule over the nations anymore" (v:15).


Ezekiel

29:1 In the tenth year, in the tenth month, on the twelfth day of the month, 1 the word of the Lord came to me: 29:2 “Son of man, turn toward 2 Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him and against all Egypt. 29:3 Tell them, ‘This is what the sovereign Lord says:
“‘Look, I am against 3 you, Pharaoh king of Egypt,
the great monster 4 lying in the midst of its waterways,
who has said, “My Nile is my own, I made it for myself.” 5
29:4 I will put hooks in your jaws
and stick the fish of your waterways to your scales.
I will haul you up from the midst of your waterways,
and all the fish of your waterways will stick to your scales.
29:5 I will leave you in the wilderness,
you and all the fish of your waterways;
you will fall in the open field and will not be gathered up or collected. 6
I have given you as food to the beasts of the earth and the birds of the skies.
29:6 Then all those living in Egypt will know that I am the Lord
because they were a reed staff 7 for the house of Israel;
29:7 when they grasped you with their hand, 8 you broke and tore 9 their shoulders,and when they leaned on you, you splintered and caused their legs to be unsteady. 10
29:8 “‘Therefore, this is what the sovereign Lord says: Look, I am about to bring a sword against you, and I will kill 11 every person and every animal. 29:9 The land of Egypt will become a desolate ruin. Then they will know that I am the Lord.
Because he said, “The Nile is mine and I made it,” 29:10 I am against 12 you and your waterways. I will turn the land of Egypt into an utter desolate ruin from Migdol 13 to Syene, 14 as far as the border with Ethiopia. 29:11 No human foot will pass through it, and no animal’s foot will pass through it; it will be uninhabited for forty years. 29:12 I will turn the land of Egypt into a desolation in the midst of desolate lands; for forty years her cities will lie desolate in the midst of ruined cities. I will scatter Egypt among the nations and disperse them among foreign countries.

29:13 “‘For this is what the sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years 15 I will gather Egypt from the peoples where they were scattered. 29:14 I will restore the fortunes of Egypt, and will bring them back 16 to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin; there they will be an insignificant kingdom. 29:15 It will be the most insignificant of the kingdoms; it will never again exalt itself over the nations. I will make them so small that they will not rule over the nations. 29:16 It will never again be Israel’s source of confidence, but a reminder of how they sinned by turning to Egypt for help. 17 Then they will know that I am the sovereign Lord.’”


That is clearly a failed ,unfulfilled prophecy:

1-None of this ever happened. There are no historical records of a 40-year period when Egypt was so desolate that neither animals nor humans inhabited it
2-The population of Egypt was never scattered among the nations and then regathered to its homeland.
3-It's political influence has fluctuated through the centuries, but there has never been a time when it could have been considered the "lowliest of kingdoms."

that is a clear clue that the writer(s) of Ezekiel ,being obssesed by the 40 years when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, into the wilderness of Sinai........so in his un-inspired writings he got such 40 year suffering, scattering of the Israeli and tried to use it with his wild imagination to apply it to the Egyptians in a failed imaginary prophecy....

 

[rav]

Shalom,

I don't see your point. The prophecies of the Messiah coming are just as unfulfilled, although if you wish I will respond in much more depth to your post.

 

[back_to_faith]

Shalom,

I don't see your point. The prophecies of the Messiah coming are just as unfulfilled, although if you wish I will respond in much more depth to your post.

Salam ,rav

Ofcource the Old Testament prophecies of the Messiah coming are just as unfulfilled.

In other words and according to you the Ezekiel's Prophecy Against Egypt is yet to be fulfilled in the future.........exactly the same as The prophecies of the Messiah coming is yet to be fulfilled in the future.....


You and those alike who tries to held the future fulfillment Ignores the text and the historical context of the Ezekiel which is:

The historical setting for that prophecy

1-Yahweh telling Ezekiel to "set [his] face against Pharaoh king of Egypt" and "to prophesy against him" and to say, "Behold I am against you, O Pharaoh, king of Egypt" Ezekiel(29:2-3)

2-the prophecy was very clear in stating that this desolation of Egypt would be done by Nebuchadnezzar, who would be "brought in to destroy the land" and to "fill the land with the slain"

Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him, The most ruthless of the nations, Will be brought in to destroy the land; And they will draw their swords against Egypt And fill the land with the slain.
Ezekiel(30:10-11).

3-
Yahweh would give Nebuchadnezzar Egypt as "wages" for the labor he had expended on Tyre in an unsuccessful siege :

Ezekiel(29:19-20).
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. And he will carry off her wealth and capture her spoil and seize her plunder; and it will be wages for his army.


29:10 I am against 12 you and your waterways. I will turn the land of Egypt into an utter desolate ruin from Migdol 13 to Syene, 14 as far as the border with Ethiopia. 29:11 No human foot will pass through it, and no animal’s foot will pass through it; it will be uninhabited for forty years. 29:12 I will turn the land of Egypt into a desolation in the midst of desolate lands; for forty years her cities will lie desolate in the midst of ruined cities. I will scatter Egypt among the nations and disperse them among foreign countries.

29:13 “‘For this is what the sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years 15 I will gather Egypt from the peoples where they were scattered. 29:14 I will restore the fortunes of Egypt, and will bring them back 16 to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin; there they will be an insignificant kingdom. 29:15 It will be the most insignificant of the kingdoms; it will never again exalt itself over the nations. I will make them so small that they will not rule over the nations.


It is crystal clear that the context shows without any reasonable doubt that this prophecy has to be fulfilled Millennia ago ,and by the hands of Nebuchadnezzar............

To claim that such false prophecy is yet to be fulfilled in the future would be as absured as someone claims that The 70 Year Captivity prophecy is yet to be fulfilled in the future:


Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: "Because you have not heard My words, behold, I will send and take all the families of the north," says the Lord, "and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. And this whole land shall be a desolation and an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jer. 25:8-11).


For thus says the Lord: "After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place." (Jer. 29:10)


in the light of such obvious man-word (unfulfilled prophecy) and many other Old Testament flaws ,on can't help but to give unqualified endorsement to the Quranic claim that the Old Testament has been fabricated in some parts by its writers....


"Do you covet that they will believe in you when [in fact] a party of them used to hear the Word of Allah (the Torah) then they would distort it knowingly after they had understood it?"

The noble Qur'an, Al-Bakarah(2):75



"Then woe to those who write the book (of God) with their own hands and then say: 'This is from Allah', to traffic with it for a miserable price. Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby"

The noble Qur'an Al-Bakarah(2):79

 

[rav]

Shalom,

Before I begin, why not give credit to your source?

I will be back a bit later to respond, however, although I am not sure you would really care, uttering the true name of G-d is a huge sin. You should seriously contemplate avoiding it.

The Talmud says:

"The following have no share in the world to come:... he who speaks out the Holy Name"
(Sanhedrin 90a)
​

You should avoid typing it at all costs. This is a completely sincere warning to you.

Peace.

 

[back_to_faith]

Shalom,

Before I begin, why not give credit to your source?

I will be back a bit later to respond, however, although I am not sure you would really care, uttering the true name of G-d is a huge sin. You should seriously contemplate avoiding it.

The Talmud says:

"The following have no share in the world to come:... he who speaks out the Holy Name"
(Sanhedrin 90a)
​

You should avoid typing it at all costs. This is a completely sincere warning to you.

Peace.

Salam

Dear.rav

Thank you very much for your advice,but let me ask you which false name one should use for God instead of the true one to avoid such grave sin of uttering his true name?
would like you to pick a false name for God to use in my posts with you ,in order to avoid the grave sin of uttering the true name of God.


It is me who should ask ,why not give credit to your source(Ezekiel)?


peace upon you

 

[rav]

Salam

Dear.rav

Thank you very much for your advice,but let me ask you which false name one should use for God instead of the true one to avoid such grave sin of uttering his true name?
would like you to pick a false name for God to use in my posts with you ,in order to avoid the grave sin of uttering the true name of God.


It is me who should ask ,why not give credit to your source(Ezekiel)?


peace upon you

Shalom Eleichem (Peace be upon you),

The word we use is "Hashem" which means "the name" in Hebrew, or type G-d however you wish, but that Holy Name should not be use, and I am only writing this for your own sake.

Now to the source, I wished to verify that you were using some of your information from the site "infidels" and the response you posted when I claimed the prophecy had yet to occur was partly in line with the response from that site, so my goal was to learn of your source on the discussion since I had suspicions that you were using that specific site, which I know very well.

Now I would first like to emulate that you or the Islamic site which is using information provided by "infidels" org, are using a secular/atheist site to draw conclusions on a theist volume. If you still desire I will come back later and debunk it. To warn you, I may both become lethargic, and utilize other sites, or in actuality I may lunge into the research myself.

 

[back_to_faith]

Shalom Eleichem (Peace be upon you),

The word we use is "Hashem" which means "the name" in Hebrew, or type G-d however you wish, but that Holy Name should not be use, and I am only writing this for your own sake.

Now to the source, I wished to verify that you were using some of your information from the site "infidels" and the response you posted when I claimed the prophecy had yet to occur was partly in line with the response from that site, so my goal was to learn of your source on the discussion since I had suspicions that you were using that specific site, which I know very well.

Now I would first like to emulate that you or the Islamic site which is using information provided by "infidels" org, are using a secular/atheist site to draw conclusions on a theist volume. If you still desire I will come back later and debunk it. To warn you, I may both become lethargic, and utilize other sites, or in actuality I may lunge into the research myself.

Shalom Eleichem
Dear rav

first:from now and on I will use the word (Hashem) for your own sake.

second:the accuse that Muslims use atheist opinions,sites etc.....shows nothing but a laziness and a kind of a refrain from answering the arguments ......
the prophecy under discussion,It doesn't need a scientific discovery nor a genieus writing from atheists or others to understand its failure...

The criticism of Ezekiel prophecy ,neither began by me nor by the infidels.org ,it is old one


To warn you, I may both become lethargic, and utilize other sites, or in actuality I may lunge into the research myself.

and I would be really happy if you utilize other sites without giving them the credit as long as their argument not unique nor has been repeated several times by several critics......and hope you get us straight to the topic under discussion ,in order for me not to think that you use the tactic of shifting the topic in order to refrain from answering.

and peace for you

 

[ManchesterFolk]

I do not wish to impose of course, but since Rav may actually have a life, to sit here and let him go into actually researching is going to take time on his part. What many people do not understand is the overall nature of the language in the Bible. Metaphors are used often.

Why could this not be a prophecy of the future?

The word "Nebachanezzar" has never refered to one man. The Babylonian empire may refer to Iraq, or it may be created again according to this prophecy! Could it not be refering to someone like the king of iraq conquering?

-the prophecy was very clear in stating that this desolation of Egypt would be done by Nebuchadnezzar, who would be "brought in to destroy the land" and to "fill the land with the slain"

Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also make the multitude of Egypt to cease by the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon. He and his people with him, The most ruthless of the nations, Will be brought in to destroy the land; And they will draw their swords against Egypt And fill the land with the slain.
Ezekiel(30:10-11).

Tne Bibles figurative language can be drawn to many conclusions. Who knows what will be done to Egypt in the future.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

An interesting article which I of course I am not a believer in, but nevertheless, it is interesting:

http://www.triumphpro.com/egypt_in_prophecy!.htm

 

[back_to_faith]

I do not wish to impose of course, but since Rav may actually have a life, to sit here and let him go into actually researching is going to take time on his part. What many people do not understand is the overall nature of the language in the Bible. Metaphors are used often.

Why could this not be a prophecy of the future?

The word "Nebachanezzar" has never refered to one man. The Babylonian empire may refer to Iraq, or it may be created again according to this prophecy! Could it not be refering to someone like the king of iraq conquering?



Tne Bibles figurative language can be drawn to many conclusions. Who knows what will be done to Egypt in the future.

Well,

The use of figurative language could be with anything but Ezekiel
29:8

You ask 1- Why could this not be a prophecy of the future?
2-Why couldn't Nebuchadrezzar refer to someone else in the future as for example(Saddam Hussein)and not Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon?
3-Just why don't we use the metaphoric language?

as a matter of fact the context of Ezekiel leaves no room for us to play the Symbolic game:

first of all who is the Nebuchadrezzar mentioned in Ezekiel?


Ezekiel 26:7
"For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army.


Ezekiel 29:18
"Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon drove his army in a hard campaign against Tyre; every head was rubbed bare and every shoulder made raw. Yet he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre.


The same Nebuchadnezzar II who sieged Tyre ,Ezekiel prophesied that he would destroy Egypt and leave it utterly desolate.

Ezekiel 29:19
Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he will carry off its wealth. He will loot and plunder the land as pay for his army.


compare that with the following:


Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts: "Because you have not heard My words, behold, I will send and take all the families of the north," says the Lord, "and Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, My servant, and will bring them against this land, against its inhabitants, and against these nations all around, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, a hissing, and perpetual desolations. Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp. And this whole land shall be a desolation and an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years." (Jer. 25:8-11).


For thus says the Lord: "After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place." (Jer. 29:10)


the application of Metaphors or figurative language to Ezekiel's prophecey against Egypt would be as absured as one tries to apply it to The 70 Year Captivity prophecy in Jeremiah


If you are going to keep going back to the figurative language,Manchester, you'd do well to first make sure you're going to gain thereby.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

I'm sorry but it says:

Ezekiel 29:19
Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going to give Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he will carry off its wealth. He will loot and plunder the land as pay for his army.

So how exactly does this connect to the other tellings of Nebachadnezzar?Does it directly say that this Nechadnezzar who conquers Egypt is the same as the one who conquered Tyre?

It says:

8Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee.

9And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it.

10Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.

11No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years.

12And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries.

13Yet thus saith the Lord GOD; At the end of forty years will I gather the Egyptians from the people whither they were scattered:

14And I will bring again the captivity of Egypt, and will cause them to return into the land of Pathros, into the land of their habitation; and they shall be there a base kingdom.

15It shall be the basest of the kingdoms; neither shall it exalt itself any more above the nations: for I will diminish them, that they shall no more rule over the nations.

16And it shall be no more the confidence of the house of Israel, which bringeth their iniquity to remembrance, when they shall look after them: but they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

_______________________

Is this the same prophecy continued???? Are the dates the same?

17And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month, in the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

18Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:

19Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.


How do we know that this is not completly different in the first place than from the other prophcy above the divider line? They first may be two seperate prophecies! Did Babylon not enslave many Egyptians during wars and did babylon never conquer egypt like in 605 BC?

Of couse I am not an expert by any means, just exploring the meaning in much more depth. I also find it odd that you use as a resource a site that has anti-islamic material! Dont get me wrong, I love that site, smart guys, very pro-secular which is what our world needs.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

" 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will bring a sword against you and kill your men and their animals. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. Then they will know that I am the LORD.

" 'Because you said, "The Nile is mine; I made it," therefore I am against you and against your streams, and I will make the land of Egypt a ruin and a desolate waste from Migdol to Aswan, as far as the border of Cush. No foot of man or animal will pass through it; no one will live there for forty years. I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations andscatter them through the countries.

" 'Yet this is what the Sovereign LORD says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom."

Commenters have used this passage as "proof" that Bible prophecy is not accurate and challenged me to disagree with them evidentially.


Prophecy and visions in the Bible

First, it is important to understand how prophecy works in the Bible. God would use poetic language full of figures of speech when making prophetic utterances. For instance, when God declares that stars will fall to the earth, we know quite well that just one star would burn the earth to a crisp before it ever managed to "fall" on us. I also mentioned that God doesn't actually "walk" on the "wings of the wind", but rather this is poetic language. We use such language ourselves: my heart is breaking (no, it's not) or, I would move heaven and earth (you'd do good moving a 200 pound boulder, dude!).

Such language is not just used in the Old Testament, but also in the prophetic portions of the New Testament such as Revelation:

Revelation 6:14 - "Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. "

Like so often happens in prophecies, they come to the writer in the form of a symbolic vision, just as this passage in Revelation, in which John is relating a vision given him while on the Isle of Patmos. The reader is to understand that the sky isn't going to actually roll up, etc. but that this rather symbolizes a complete upheaval and drastic change. Reading the entire book of Revelation reveals the nature of the changes and the who, what, when, where, why and hows of it all.

(The Bible devotes an entire chapter to the interpretation of two specific prophetic dreams, in Genesis chapter forty. Joseph listens as the head butler and baker to the pharoah relate troubling, prophetic dreams and then interprets them.)

The Book of Ezekiel begins with the author describing the beginning of a vision given him by God. The reader then understands that the language will be poetic and often the vision will be symbolic in nature. Yet the meanings are quite clear when you read Ezekiel 29. Egypt's Pharaoh is going to be conquered and the land emptied.

History - the stories begin to fade away

Second, as they always say, history is written by the victor. It is also true that the farther away we get from an event, the more our history becomes a form of shorthand. This is also why people were dogmatically declaring that Egypt was not conquered and made uninhabitable and that the Bible was obviously wrong, because modern historians have paid little or no attention to the event that took place in approximately 571 BC. But reliable historical documentation certainly exists and we will now go there.

The Annals of the World

James Ussher finished this massive volume in 1658 (English version. The Latin version was produced 1650-4.) He had at his disposal myriad sources. The publisher now says of this work:

"Considered not only a classic work of literature, but also esteemed for its preciseness and accuracy, The Annals of the World has not been published in the English language since the 17th century. Almost completely inaccessible to the public for 300 years, this book is a virtual historical encyclopedia with information and footnotes to history that otherwise would have been lost forever. Covering history from the beginning through the first century A.D., Ussher relates both famous accounts and little known events in the lives of the famous and infamous including pharaohs, Caesars, kings, conquerors, thieves, pirates, and murderers. He tells of the rise and fall of great and not-so-great nations and gives accounts of the events that shaped the world. (960 pages - hardbound)"

(Larry Pierce, and Marion Pierce presided over the 2003-4 revision and re-release into English of this tome. They had help, but I have to say that this was a staggering undertaking and I remain in awe of their dedication!)

Ussher combed through the historical accounts of Josephus, Herodotus, Xenophon, Plutarch and hundreds of others, his bibliography being a veritable hall of fame of historians now passed. He researched in order to produce the best possible dates for the events listed. Yes, he did use the Bible as one of his sources and to this day archaeologists use the Bible in their research, as a handbook to help find ruins and identify newly discovered cultures. Ussher included over twelve thousand footnotes and over two thousand quotes from the Bible and Apocrypha as part of his work.

In any event, here is what Ussher says about this portion of Ezekiel, noting that Jeremiah made a similar prophecy concerning the same coming event:

3433 AM, 4143 JP, 571 BC

"(reference number 881) After Nebuchadnezzar conquered Egypt from Syrene to the very ends of the land, he made havock of the Egyptians and of the Jews who lived there. Some he killed and the rest he led away into captivity, in accordance with Jeremiah's prophecies. (Jer 43:1-44:30 46:1-28 Eze 29 1-31:18)

Pharoahhophra, or Apries, was forced to retreat into the country of Thebes. It seems that Nebuchadnezzar made Amasis his viceroy over all Egypt. Though Herodotus did not know of this, Scaliger observed in his notes Ad Fragmenta:

"The priests of Egypt told Herodotus of such things as he desired to know. They spoke only of things that glorified their country, but concealed the rest. This showed their cowardice and slavery, by concealing the payment of tribute they made to the Chaldeans."

Thus was the first portion of the prophecy fulfilled. The Babylonians conquered the land and either killed or took captive all the inhabitants. It was typical, not just of Nebuchadnezzar, but of many of the empires of this time frame that, when conquering a land, they would empty it of people and domesticated animals. Many would be killed and many taken into captivity as slaves or, in the case of the best candidates, trained and groomed to be assimilated into the victor's society. This is what happened to Daniel, by the way, who was taken as a youth to become part of the Court and eventually came to be the right hand man of the King himself, a defacto ruler over all of the empire. But that's another subject.​

For now, we then go forward forty years in the Annals and find this entry:

3473 AM, 4183 JP, 531 BC

"(reference 958) Amasis, it seems, defected from Cyrus. The people of Egypt, who had previously been carried away by Nebuchadnezzar, were now being sent back again by Cyrus into their own country, after forty years in exile. They returned to their own kingdom toward the end of the life of Amasis. Egypt was once again a kingdom, very old and ancient, it is true, but the least significant of all of them and no longer of much use to any other country. (Eze 29:11-16 Jer 46:26) (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.8. c.8.s.1.6:439) Xenophon, in the prologue to his whole work, stated that Cyrus had Egypt in his possession, (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.1.c.1.s.4.5:7) while all authors agree that it was later subdued by his son Cambyses. Hence, we conclude that in the intervening time they enjoyed their freedom."

Thus, Ussher records the forty year exile did take place, as predicted in both Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Forty years would be a pretty average lifespan for people of this time so that, when a nation would take another into captivity for forty or more years they would be putting a practical end to the government and leaders of that nation. Peoples taken into captivity in such a manner would later return having been stamped with the culture of their captors. Egyptians would go on being Egyptians, but with a great deal of Babylonian influences and the loss of a tremendous amount of historical documentation of their culture and times.

The Jews were unique in that they were so dedicated to the preservation of their scriptures, genealogies and culture that even being taken into captivity on more than one occasion was not enough to significantly alter their inherent "Jewishness" or obliterate the scriptures.

I assert that the prophetic predictions of Ezekiel concerning Egypt did in fact occur and that the Bible did predict what was going to happen and for how long.link

 

[back_to_faith]

An interesting article which I of course I am not a believer in, but nevertheless, it is interesting:

http://www.triumphpro.com/egypt_in_prophecy!.htm

If there is something interesting in such article ,it would be the great deal of inconsistency,false assertions therein


first

He argues that :

Egypt is not now the "basest of kingdoms"!
and the key to understanding this prophecy is to realize that it applies to the FUTURE -- How do we know this is a future prophecy, and not just something which occurred ages ago?
Chapter 30 proves it! This chapter continues the prophecy against Egypt! It gives us the time setting.



Well ,simple reading of Chapter 30 ,would shoot his future argument in the foot ,pay attention to the underlined,plz:




Ezekiel 30

1The word of the LORD came again to me saying,
2"Son of man, prophesy and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD,
Wail, 'Alas for the day!'
3"For the day is near,
Even the day of the LORD is near;
It will be a day of clouds,
A time of doom for the nations.
4"A sword will come upon Egypt,
And anguish will be in Ethiopia;
When the slain fall in Egypt,
They take away her wealth,
And her foundations are torn down.

5"Ethiopia, Put, Lud, all Arabia, Libya and the people of the land that is in league will fall with them by the sword."
6'Thus says the LORD,
"Indeed, those who support Egypt will fall
And the pride of her power will come down;
From Migdol to Syene
They will fall within her by the sword,"
Declares the Lord GOD.
7"They will be desolate
In the midst of the desolated lands;
And her cities will be
In the midst of the devastated cities.
8"And they will know that I am the LORD,
When I set a fire in Egypt
And all her helpers are broken.

9"On that day messengers will go forth from Me in ships to frighten secure Ethiopia; and anguish will be on them as on the day of Egypt; for behold, it comes!"

10'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease
By the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.
11"He and his people with him,
The most ruthless of the nations,
Will be brought in to destroy the land;
And they will draw their swords against Egypt
And fill the land with the slain.
12"Moreover, I will make the Nile canals dry
And sell the land into the hands of evil men.
And I will make the land desolate
And all that is in it,
By the hand of strangers; I the LORD have spoken."

13'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"I will also destroy the idols
And make the images cease from Memphis. And there will no longer be a prince in the land of Egypt;
And I will put fear in the land of Egypt.
14"I will make Pathros desolate,
Set a fire in Zoan
And execute judgments on Thebes.
15"I will pour out My wrath on Sin,
The stronghold of Egypt;
I will also cut off the hordes of Thebes.
16"I will set a fire in Egypt;
Sin will writhe in anguish,
Thebes will be breached
And Memphis will have distresses daily.
17"The young men of On and of Pi-beseth
Will fall by the sword,
And the women will go into captivity.
18"In Tehaphnehes the day will be dark
When I break there the yoke bars of Egypt.
Then the pride of her power will cease in her;
A cloud will cover her,
And her daughters will go into captivity.
19"Thus I will execute judgments on Egypt,
And they will know that I am the LORD."'"




He continues:

This chapter is describing the countries "in league" or allied with the "King of the south"! But notice the time setting for this prophecy. It is during the "DAY OF THE LORD" -- the time just ahead of us, during the climactic close of this human age of misrule, when Jesus Christ will establish His Kingdom over all!



the writer fancies himself that the term(DAY OF THE LORD) means the end days time

from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Lord

The term “Day of the Lord” is recorded twenty-four times in Scripture. In the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible, there are numerous other terms that are synonyms for the Day of the Lord including:

the day of darkness
the day of God's wrath
the day of calamity
the day of wrath
the day of battle
day of disaster
day of reckoning
the day of his burning anger
day of vengeance
the day of salvation
the day of clouds and darkness
the day of your watchmen
the day of calamity
the day of his coming
that great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Now he tries to convince us that It has been fulfilled !!!!!!

God is no respecter of persons, or nations, Egypt also was to be punished "seven times" or 2520 years! During the 2520 year punishment on Egypt, many Egyptians wondered among the other nations of the world. They became known as "Gypsies," a word which obviously is derived from "Egyptian."

What a poor writer !!!

The Romani people (as a noun, singular Rom, plural Roma; sometimes Rrom, Rroma) or Romanies are an ethnic group living in many communities all over the world. The Roma are among the best known ethnic groups that appear in literature and folklore, and are often referred to as Gypsies or Gipsies, a term that is based on a mistaken belief of an origin in Egypt.

verify here the ( Population , Origins , Linguistic evidence ,Genetic evidence) of the Gypsies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roma_people


the article full of other flaws but that is enough for now ,and my short time.

peace for all

 

[ManchesterFolk]

I said I did not believe the article, I thought it was interesting though, the "doomsday" stuff, lol. I posted other articles and repsonses for you however.

 

[back_to_faith]

" 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will bring a sword against you and kill your men and their animals. Egypt will become a desolate wasteland. Then they will know that I am the LORD.

" 'Because you said, "The Nile is mine; I made it," therefore I am against you and against your streams, and I will make the land of Egypt a ruin and a desolate waste from Migdol to Aswan, as far as the border of Cush. No foot of man or animal will pass through it; no one will live there for forty years. I will make the land of Egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities. And I will disperse the Egyptians among the nations andscatter them through the countries.

" 'Yet this is what the Sovereign LORD says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom."

Commenters have used this passage as "proof" that Bible prophecy is not accurate and challenged me to disagree with them evidentially.


Prophecy and visions in the Bible

First, it is important to understand how prophecy works in the Bible. God would use poetic language full of figures of speech when making prophetic utterances. For instance, when God declares that stars will fall to the earth, we know quite well that just one star would burn the earth to a crisp before it ever managed to "fall" on us. I also mentioned that God doesn't actually "walk" on the "wings of the wind", but rather this is poetic language. We use such language ourselves: my heart is breaking (no, it's not) or, I would move heaven and earth (you'd do good moving a 200 pound boulder, dude!).

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Well, we have another guy who believes in a past fulfillment!!!

He wrote:

First, it is important to understand how prophecy works in the Bible. God would use poetic language full of figures of speech when making prophetic utterances. For instance, when God declares that stars will fall to the earth, we know quite well that just one star would burn the earth to a crisp before it ever managed to "fall"


ofcourse we (21 century civilized people) know that ,not such writers who thought that the earth is flat, the rabbits chew cuds,a cricket has four legs........now onder if they believed that stars will fall to the earth.

He continues:

The Book of Ezekiel begins with the author describing the beginning of a vision given him by God. The reader then understands that the language will be poetic and often the vision will be symbolic in nature.


So the fulfilment will be a vision of the desolate of Egypt or a visible,literal one by the naked eyes!!?


He wrote:


"Amasis, it seems, defected from Cyrus. The people of Egypt, who had previously been carried away by Nebuchadnezzar, were now being sent back again by Cyrus into their own country, after forty years in exile. They returned to their own kingdom toward the end of the life of Amasis. Egypt was once again a kingdom, very old and ancient, it is true, but the least significant of all of them



first of all:

Nebuchadnezzar may have attacked and defeated Egypt, but he did not subjugate it, or exile its population. During the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Egypt was under the control of Pharaoh Amasis, who is well documented in both Egyptian and Greek sources, and was significantly powerful and prosperous.
the latter days of the 26th dynasty, which was the time of Amasis, are considered to be the last great phase of Egyptian history. Suffice it to say, they were not led off in exile to Babylon, or conquered by Nebuchadnezzar."

There are no dissenting opinions among Egyptologists about the prosperity, or relative length of Amasis's reign.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/amasis.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amasis



Again my questions for those in favor for past fulfillment:

1-where is the historical record of 40 years desolatation of Egypt of both people and animals?

2-Was,Is Egypt considered to be the lowliest of kingdoms? If yes ,where is your proofs?

 

[ManchesterFolk]

ofcourse we (21 century civilized people) know that ,not such writers who thought that the earth is flat, the rabbits chew cuds,a cricket has four legs........now onder if they believed that stars will fall to the earth.

Well, you may feel that way, but the figurative lannguage is written about in a variety of commentaries far beyond these discoveries, at least a few I have read.

1-where is the historical record of 40 years desolatation of Egypt of both people and animals?

I have already said that there are a variety of possibilities.


Remember a few posts ago? For now, we then go forward forty years in the Annals and find this entry:

3473 AM, 4183 JP, 531 BC

"(reference 958) Amasis, it seems, defected from Cyrus. The people of Egypt, who had previously been carried away by Nebuchadnezzar, were now being sent back again by Cyrus into their own country, after forty years in exile. They returned to their own kingdom toward the end of the life of Amasis. Egypt was once again a kingdom, very old and ancient, it is true, but the least significant of all of them and no longer of much use to any other country. (Eze 29:11-16 Jer 46:26) (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.8. c.8.s.1.6:439) Xenophon, in the prologue to his whole work, stated that Cyrus had Egypt in his possession, (Xenophon, Cyropedia 1.1.c.1.s.4.5:7) while all authors agree that it was later subdued by his son Cambyses. Hence, we conclude that in the intervening time they enjoyed their freedom."​

Or....
I said it may not have been fufiiled yet, since they are seperate prophecies as I outlined a few posts ago.

2-Was,Is Egypt considered to be the lowliest of kingdoms? If yes ,where is your proofs?

Consider the military might of Egypt back then and now... Egypt is a particle of its former self, and if ytou look at the nations around the world today, especially Nuclear ones, Egypt is not considered a huge threat at all, it is very lowly compared to the mighty empire it once was.

 

[Philosopher]

back_to_faith: I congratulate you on doing an amazing job of refuting Biblical prophecies.

Also, it doesnt matter if the sources are from atheists. The content matters more.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

back_to_faith: I congratulate you on doing an amazing job of refuting Biblical prophecies.

Also, it doesnt matter if the sources are from atheists. The content matters more.

LOL. :giggling:

Have you read the site? It is actually a favorite of mine, the only problem is that the sam writer refutes Islamic texts as well. Call me to secular though... :rollseyes

 

[Philosopher]

LOL. :giggling:

Have you read the site? It is actually a favorite of mine, the only problem is that the sam writer refutes Islamic texts as well. Call me to secular though... :rollseyes

Obviously rav cannot refute the information so the best reply you/he can come up with is "LOL."

 

[ManchesterFolk]

Obviously rav cannot refute the information so the best reply you/he can come up with is "LOL."

Why can't he refute the info? Has he been refuted and I have not seen it? Who knows he may be researching, it may be a holiday where Jews cannot use electricity, or he may have a life not revolved around the computer (lol i should get one). While anyway, I suggest reading the evidence I posted about recordings of such a 40 year exile.