Ezekiel's failed Prophecy Against Egypt

[thirdwatch512]

the Bible is a VERY VERY VERY VERY EXTREMELY symbolic book. in fact, there are many parts of the OT that i can't read without commentary.

i have this program called "e-Sword." on e-Sword, you can download dozens of maps, Bible's, and all kinds of things, in Hebrew, Greek, you name it. you can download commentary from like 20 different people too. and from the commentary I see, Ezekiel 29 and 30 is VERY symbolic. i would love to post it, but I won't be able to show sources, as it's not an online source.

 

[Philosopher]

the Bible is a VERY VERY VERY VERY EXTREMELY symbolic book. in fact, there are many parts of the OT that i can't read without commentary.

i have this program called "e-Sword." on e-Sword, you can download dozens of maps, Bible's, and all kinds of things, in Hebrew, Greek, you name it. you can download commentary from like 20 different people too. and from the commentary I see, Ezekiel 29 and 30 is VERY symbolic. i would love to post it, but I won't be able to show sources, as it's not an online source.

That is why Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old :rollseyes

 

[ManchesterFolk]

That is why Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old :rollseyes

LOL!!!!! REPS!!!! BIG TIME!!!!!!

Your my favorite member now!

 

[thirdwatch512]

That is why Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old :rollseyes

i'm VERY glad you brought that up.. because today i had actually read an article about islam, and i remember it quoting mohammad MANY times saying that the earth started 6,000 years ago. i wish i would have stayed on that site lol, because it was like an hour ago!!

anyways, as for the age of the earth.. some hardline people beleive that the earth is 6,000 years old.

1. i don't see how evolution contradicts the Bible.. because in Genesis, it say "IN THE BEGINNING", which infers that it wasn't written from the beginning.

but, even if we assume that the Bible CAN'T preach evolution, the world would still be over 6,000 years old..

· Adam was 130 years old when he had Seth (Gen. 5:3) = 130

· Seth was 105 years old when he had Enosh (Gen. 5:6) = 105

· Enosh lived a total of 905 years (Gen. 5:11) = 905 Thus, the time span between Adam to Enosh’s death is 130 + 105 + 905 = 1140 years.

· Enosh was 90 years old when he had Kenan (Gen. 5:9).

· From Kenan to Methuselah (Gen. 5:12-25), we don’t have a specific chronology; however, if we follow the pattern of the previous chronology (Gen. 5:3-11 with Kenan to Mahalalel; Mahalalel to Jared; and Jared to Enoch), this period would only account for 4,000 – 5,000 years. This is bolstered by the pattern of the subsequent chronology of Gen. 5:28-32, the other chronological “book-end” to Gen. 5:12-23. There is absolutely nothing in the texts that suggest there were millions of years between Kenan and Methuselah. Nothing at all indicates that thirteen verses of Scripture (Gen. 5:12-25), which are sandwiched between two short chronologies, account for millions of years. The analysis below provides more proof for this conclusion. Is the earth only 6,000 years old?

· While the foregoing analysis supports a young earth, it necessarily refutes the contention that the earth is only 6,000 years old (which is held by some Protestant creationists due to their misinterpretation of the word “begat”). When the Scripture says “A begat B,” the word “begat” (Hebrew, yalad) simply means “to bring forth.” The word does not necessarily connote a direct father-son relationship. Thus, the chronologies in Genesis 5 and 11 provide both direct and indirect ancestral lineage (by using “calendar markers” as we will further see below). This is why they account for approximately 4,000 to 5,000 years, and not less time.

· Here is proof that “begat” does not necessarily mean a direct father-son relationship: Genesis 11:12 says that Arpachshad “begat” Shelah, but Luke 3:36 says that Arpachshad “begat” Cainan (as we will see below, Shelah was born in the year Arpachshad died, even though Arpachshad “begat” Shelah). 1 Chron. 3:16 says Josiah “begat” Jehoiakim, but Matthew 1:11 says Josiah “begat” Jeconiah. In 1 Chron. 3:11-12, we see the line of Jehoram, Ahaziah, Joash, Amaziah, Jotham; but in Matthew 1:8-9, we see the shorter and different line of Jehoram, Uzziah, Jotham. This demonstrates that the biblical chronologies are not exclusively father-son relationships (in fact, they usually are not). “Begat” typically means that A “brought forth” B, whether immediately or only proximately (that is, later on in the lineage).

· Now, here is an example of the Hebrew use of “calendar markers” in Genesis 11: There is 438 years between Arpachshad and Shelah (not 35 years), even though it says that “Arpachshad was 35 when he begat Shelah” (Gen. 11:12). This actually means that when Arpachshad was 35, the ancestor of Shelah was born (not Shelah himself). Gen. 11:13 says that Arpachshad lived 403 years after he begat Shelah (that is, after he begat Shelah’s ancestor). Thus, there are 35 + 403 = 438 years between Arpachshad and Shelah. Why is this? As we have stated, because the Hebrew chronologies use names (e.g. Arpachshad) as “calendar markers” for their generations. Arpachshad served as the calendar marker for his generation, and when he died, Shelah served as the next calendar marker for his new generation. Thus, the chronological time spans can be traced precisely. The new calendar marker (e.g. Shelah) was always born in the year that the old calendar year marker (e.g. Arpachshad) died. This means there is a significant amount of time between calendar markers, for each name (e.g. Arpachshad) represents a generation. Now, we continue with Lamech and finish with Noah:

· Methuselah was 187 years old when he had Lamech (Gen. 5:25).

· Lamech was 182 years old when he had Noah (Gen. 28-29) = 182

· Noah lived for 950 years (Gen. 9:29) = 950 Thus, from Lamech to Noah’s death is 182 + 950 = 1132 years. This means that from the creation of the world to Noah’s death is, at most, 1140 + 5000 + 1132 = 7272 years (the more conservative view is 1000 less, or 6272 years). Now, there are nine “calendar markers” in Genesis 11: Shem (Gen. 11:10); Arpachshad (Gen. 11:10); Shelah (Gen. 11:12); Eber (Gen. 11:14); Peleg (Gen. 11:16); Reu (Gen. 11:18); Serug (Gen. 11:20); Nahor (Gen. 11:22); and Terah (Gen. 11:24). We also know that when Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of Shem, the first calendar marker in Genesis 11 (see Gen. 5:32). We further know that when Terah, the last calendar marker in Genesis 11, was 70 years old, he became the father of Abram (Gen. 11:26-27,31). Thus, the are approximately 3000 years between the time Noah had Shem, and Terah had Abram. This means that the earth was about 6822 years old when Noah had Shem (7272 – 950 + 500), and about 9822 years old when Terah had Abram (6822 + 3000). When did the flood occur? God sent the flood in the 600th year of Noah’s life (Gen. 7:11). This means the flood occurred when the world was, at most, approximately 6922 years old (7272 – 950 + 600; or 6822 + 100). As we will see below, if Abram was born around 2214 B.C., this puts the flood at approximately 5314 B.C. (100 years between birth of Shem and flood + 3000 years for the rest of the Genesis 11 chronology to Abram’s birth in 2214 B.C., or 100 + 3000 + 2214). Following supports the approximate time of Abram’s birth:

· The date of the division of the Davidic kingdom (between Rehoboam and Jeroboam) has been set at 931 B.C. (see 1 Kings 12). This is confirmed by 1 Kings 14:25 and 2 Chron. 2:12 which say that Shishak, who rampaged Rehov in 925 B.C., came against Jerusalem in the “fifth year of Rehoboam” (or about 931 B.C.).

· There were 480 years between Solomon’s fourth year (967 B.C.) and the Exodus (1 Kings 6:1). This brings us to 1447 B.C. (967 + 480).

· The Exodus lasted 430 years (Ex. 12:41), and commenced when Jacob entered into Egypt. This brings us to 1877 B.C. (1447 + 430). So the Exodus started in about 1877 B.C. and ended in 1447 B.C. This 430 time span is confirmed by Exodus 6:14-29 which adds the years of Levi (77 years), Koath (133 years), Amram (137 years) and Aaron’s age (83; see Ex. 7:7; Num. 33:39); 77 + 133 + 137 + 83 = 430 years.

· Jacob lived to be 147 years old (Gen. 47:28), and lived in Egypt for 70 of those years (Gen. 47:28). This means Jacob was 77 when he entered into Egypt (147 – 70); 1877 + 77 = 1954 B.C.

· Isaac was 60 years old when he had Jacob (Gen. 25:26); 1954 + 60 = 2014 B.C.

· Abraham was 100 years old when he had Isaac (Gen. 21:5); 2014 + 100 = 2114 B.C. This puts Abraham’s birth at about 2214 B.C. (2114 + 100). Abraham lived for 175 years (Gen. 25:7) which means Abraham died around 2039 B.C. Thus, we have the following: * 7272 years (at most, from the creation of Adam on the sixth day to Noah’s death); * 2550 years (from Noah’s death to Abram’s birth; 3000 years less 450, since Shem was born when Noah was 500 years old, that is 950 - 450); * 2214 years (from Abram’s birth to the birth of Christ in 1 B.C.) * 2005 Anno Domini (the current year)

____________

14,041 years

overall though, i believe in evolution, and don't see a problem with it. and i don't think it contradicts the Bible.

 

[Philosopher]

i'm VERY glad you brought that up.. because today i had actually read an article about islam, and i remember it quoting mohammad MANY times saying that the earth started 6,000 years ago. i wish i would have stayed on that site lol, because it was like an hour ago!!

I am interested in reading your article and knowing it's source.

And I'm sure there are hundreds of articles refuting it.


As for the rest of your post, science > Bible. The earth is 4 billion years old, and the universe is 14 billion.

You cannot trust the Old Testament because it is notorious for defying the laws of science, in addition to its contradictions.

 

[Philosopher]

Thirdwatch,

I also forgot to mention that there were numerous Christians theologians who predicted the date for the end of the world but were wrong EVERY time. Their gathered their calculations from the Bible (hence the problem).

53 AD
Even before all the books of the Bible were written, there was talk that Christ's return had already taken place. The Thessalonians panicked on Paul when they heard a rumor that the day of the Lord was at hand, and they had missed the rapture.

500
A Roman priest living in the second century predicted Christ would return in 500 AD, based on the dimensions of Noah's ark.

1000
This year goes down as one of the most heightened periods of hysteria over the return of Christ. All members of society seemed affected by the prediction that Jesus was coming back at the start of the new millennium. None of the events required by the Bible were transpiring at that time; the magic of the number 1000 was the sole reason for the expectation. During concluding months of 999 AD, everyone was on his best behavior; worldly goods were sold and given to the poor; swarms of pilgrims headed east to meet the Lord at Jerusalem; buildings went unrepaired; crops were left unplanted; and criminals were set free from jails. When the year 999 AD turned into 1000 AD, nothing happened.

1033
This year was cited as the beginning of the millennium because it marked 1,000 years since Christ's crucifixion.

1186
The "Letter of Toledo" warned everyone to hide in the caves and mountains. The world was reportedly to be destroyed with only a few spared.

1420
The Taborites of Czechoslovakia predicted every city would be annihilated by fire. Only five mountain strongholds would be saved.

1524-1526
Muntzer, a leader of German peasants, announced that the return of Christ was near. After Muntzer and his men destroyed the high and mighty, the Lord would supposedly return. This belief led to an uneven battle against government troops. He was strategically outnumbered. Muntzer claimed to have had a vision from God in which the Lord promised that He would catch the cannonballs of the enemy in the sleeves of His cloak. The prediction within the vision turned out to be false when Muntzer and his followers were mowed down by cannon fire.

1534
A repeat of the Muntzer affair occurred a few years later. This time, Jan Matthys took over the city of Munster. The city was to be the only one spared from destruction. The inhabitants of Munster, chased out by Matthys and his men, regrouped and lay siege to the city. Within a year, everyone in the city was dead.

1650-1660
The Fifth Monarchy Men looked for Jesus to establish a theocracy. They took up arms and tried to seize England by force. The movement died when the British monarchy was restored in 1660.

1666
For the citizens of London, 1666 was not a banner year. A bubonic plague outbreak killed 100,000 and the Great Fire of London struck the same year. The world seemed at an end to most Londoners. The fact that the year ended with the Beast's number—666--didn't help matters.

1809
Mary Bateman, who specialized in fortune telling, had a magic chicken that laid eggs with end-time messages on them. One message said that Christ was coming. The uproar she created ended when an unannounced visitor caught her forcing an egg into the hen's oviduct. Mary later was hanged for poisoning a wealthy client. History does not record whether the offended chicken attended the hanging.

1814
Spiritualist Joanna Southcott made the startling claim that she, by virgin birth, would produce the second Jesus Christ. Her abdomen began to swell and so did the crowds of people around her. The time for the birth came and passed; she died soon after. An autopsy revealed she had experienced a false pregnancy.

1836
John Wesley wrote that "the time, times and half a time" of Revelation 12:14 were 1058*1836, "when Christ should come" (A. M. Morris, The Prophecies Unveiled, p. 361).

1843-1844
William Miller was the founder of an end-times movement that was so prominent it received its own name, Millerism. From his studies of the Bible, Miller determined that the second coming would happen sometime between 1843-1844. A spectacular meteor shower in 1833 gave the movement a good push forward. The buildup of anticipation continued until March 21, 1844, when Miller's one-year timetable ran out. Some followers set another date--Oct 22, 1844. This too failed, collapsing the movement. One follower described the days after the failed predictions: "The world made merry over the old Prophet's predicament. The taunts and jeers of the 'scoffers' were well-nigh unbearable."

1859
Rev. Thomas Parker, a Massachusetts minister, looked for the millennium to start about 1859.

1881
Someone called Mother Shipton had, 400 years earlier, claimed that the world would end in 1881. A controversy hangs over the Shipton writings as to whether or not publishers doctored the text. If the date was wrong, should it matter anyway?

1910
The revisit of Halley's comet was, for many, an indication of the Lord's second coming. The earth actually passed through the gaseous tail of the comet. One enterprising man sold comet pills to people for protection against the effects of the toxic gases.

1914
Charles Russell, after being exposed to the teachings of William Miller, founded his own organization that evolved into the Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1914, Russell predicted the return of Jesus Christ.

1918
In 1918, new math didn't help the Witnesses from striking out again.

1925
The Witnesses had no better luck in 1925. They already possessed the title of “Most Wrong Predictions.” They would expand upon it in the years to come.

1941
Once again, Jehovah's Witnesses beleived that Armageddon was due. Before the end of 1941, the end of all things was predicted.

1967
When the city of Jerusalem was reclaimed by the Jews in 1967, prophecy watchers declared that the "Time of the Gentiles" had come to an end.

1970
The True Light Church of Christ made its claim to fame by incorrectly forecasting the return of Jesus. A number of church members had quit their livelihoods ahead of the promised advent.

1973
A comet that turned out to be a visual disappointment nonetheless compelled one preacher to announce that it would be a sign of the Lord's return.

1975
The Jehovah's Witnesses were back at it in 1975. The failure of the forecast did not affect the growth of the movement. The Watchtower magazine, a major Witness periodical, has over 13 million subscribers.

1977
We all remember the killer bee scare of the late 1970's. One prophecy prognosticator linked the bees to Revelation 9:3-12. After 20 years of progression, the bees are still in Texas. I'm beginning to think of them as the killer snails.

1981
One author boldly declared that the rapture would occur before December 31, 1981, based on Christian prophecy, astronomy, and a dash of ecological fatalism. He pegged the date to Jesus' promised return to earth a generation after Israel's rebirth. He also made references to the "Jupiter Effect," a planetary alignment occurring every 179 years that supposedly could lead to earthquakes and nuclear plant meltdowns.

1982
It was all going to end in 1982, when the planets lined up and created magnetic forces that would bring Armageddon to the earth.

1982
A group called the Tara Centers placed full-page advertisements in many major newspapers for the weekend of April 24-25, 1982, announcing: "The Christ is Now Here!" They predicted that He was to make himself known "within the next two months." After the date passed, they said that the delay was only because the "consciousness of the human race was not quite right..." Boy, all these years and we're still not ready.

1984
The Jehovah's Witnesses made sure, in 1984, that no one else would be able to top their record of most wrong doomsday predictions. The Witnesses' record currently holds at nine. The years are: 1874, 1878, 1881, 1910, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1984. Lately, the JWs are claiming they're out of the prediction business, but it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. They'll be back.

1987
The Harmonic Convergence was planned for August 16-17, 1987, and several New Age events were also to occur at that time. The second coming of the serpent god of peace and the Hopi dance awakening were two examples.

1988
The book, 88 Reasons Why the Rapture is in 1988, came out only a few months before the event was to take place. What little time the book had, it used effectively. By the time the predicted dates, September 11-13, rolled around, whole churches were caught up in the excitement the book generated. I personally had friends who were measuring themselves for wings. In the dorm where we lived, my friends were also openly confronting all of the unsaved. It became my job to defuse situations. In one case, an accosted sinner was contemplating dispensary action against my now-distant friends. Finally, the days of destiny dawned and then set. No Jesus. The environment was not the same as Miller's 1844 failure. To my surprise, the taunting by the unsaved was very brief. I took it that people have very little understanding of the Bible, so they had nothing to taunt my friends with. I made one other interesting observation. Although the time for the rapture had been predicted to fall within a three-day window, September 11-13, my friends gave up hope on the morning of the 12th. I pointed out that they still had two days left, but they had been spooked, nonetheless

1989
After the passing of the deadline in 88 Reasons, the author, Edgar Whisenant, came out with a new book called 89 Reasons Why the Rapture is in 1989. This book sold only a fraction of the number of copies his prior release had sold.

1991
A group in Australia predicted Jesus would return through the Sydney Harbor at 9 a.m., March 31, 1991.

1991
Menachem Schneerson, a Russian-born rabbi, called for the Messiah to come by September 9, 1991, the start of the Jewish New Year.

1992
A Korean group called Mission for the Coming Days had the Korea Church an uproar in the fall of 1992. They foresaw October 28, 1992 as the date for the rapture. Numerology was the basis for the date. Several camera shots that left ghostly images on pictures were thought to be a supernatural confirmation of the date.

1993
If the year 2000 is the end of the 6,000-year cycle, then the rapture must take place in 1993, because you would need seven years of the tribulation. This was the thinking of a number of prophecy writers.

1994
In the book, 1994: The Year of Destiny , F. M. Riley foretold of God's plan to rapture His people. The name of his ministry is “The Last Call,” and he operates out of Missouri.

1994
Pastor John Hinkle of Christ Church in Los Angeles caused quite a stir when he announced he had received a vision from God that warned of apocalyptic event on June 9, 1994. Hinkle, quoting God, said, "On Thursday June the 9th, I will rip the evil out of this world." At the time, I knew Hinkle's vision didn't match up with Scripture. From a proper reading of Bible prophecy, the only thing that God could possibly rip from the earth would be the Christian Church, and I don't think God would refer to the Church as "evil." Some people tried to interpret Hinkle's unscriptural vision to mean that God would the rip evil out of our hearts when He raptured us. Well, the date came and went with no heart surgery or rapture.

1994
Harold Camping, in his book Are You Ready?, predicted the Lord would return in September 1994. The book was full of numerology that added up to 1994 as the date of Christ's return.

1994
After promising they would not make anymore end time predictions, the Jehovah's Witnesses fell off the wagon and proclaimed 1994 as the conclusion of an 80-year generation; the year 1914 was the starting point.

1996
This year had a special month, according to one author who foresaw September as the time for our Lord's return. The Church Age will last 2,000 years from the time of Christ's birth in 4 BC.

1996
California psychic Sheldon Nidle predicted the end would come with the convergence of 16 million space ships and a host of angels upon the earth on December 17, 1996. Nidle explained the passing of the date by claiming the angels placed us in a holographic projection to preserve us and give us a second chance.

1997
In regard to 1997, I received several e-mail messages that pointed to this as the year when Jesus would return for His church. Two of the more widely known time frames were Monte Judah's prediction that the tribulation would begin in February/March and another prediction based on numerology and the Psalms that targeted May 14 as the date of the rapture.

1997
When Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat signed their peace pact on the White House lawn on September 13, 1993, some saw the events as the beginning of tribulation. With the signing of the peace agreement, Daniel's 1,260-day countdown was underway. By adding 1,260 days to September 1993, you arrive at February 24, 1997.

1997
Stan Johnson of the Prophecy Club saw a "90 percent" chance that the tribulation would start September 12, 1997. He based his conclusion on several end-time signs: that would be Jesus' 2,000th birthday and it would also be the Day of Atonement, although it wouldn’t be what is currently the Jewish Day of Atonement. Further supporting evidence came from Romanian pastor Dumitru Duduman. In several heavenly visions, Dumitru claimed to have seen the Book of Life. In one of his earlier visions, there were several pages yet to be completed. In his last vision, he noticed the Book of Life only had one page left. Doing some rough calculating, Johnson and friends figured the latest time frame for the completion of the book would have to be September 1997.

1998
Numerology: Because 666 times three equals 1998, some people point to this year as being prophetically significant. Someone called me long distance just so he could pass on to me this earth-shattering news.

1998
A Taiwanese cult operating out of Garland, Texas predicted Christ would return on March 31 of 1998. The group's leader, Heng-ming Chen, announced God would return and then invite the cult members aboard a UFO. The group abandoned their prediction when a precursor event failed to take place. The cult's leader had said that God would appear on every channel 18 of every TV in the world. Maybe God realized at the last minute, the Playboy Network was channel 18 on several cable systems, and He didn't want to have Christians watching a porn channel.

1998
On April 30, 1998, Israel was to turn 50 and many believed this birthday would mark the beginning of the tribulation. The reasoning behind this date has to do with God's age requirement for the priesthood, which is between 30-50.

1998
1998 Marilyn Agee, in her book, The End of the Age, had her sights set on May 31, 1998. This date was to conclude the 6,000-year cycle from the time of Adam. Agee looked for the rapture to take place on Pentecost, which is also known as “the Feast of Weeks.” Another indicator of this date was the fact that the Holy Spirit did not descend upon the apostles until 50 days after Christ's resurrection. Israel was born in 1948; add the 50 days as years and you come up with. After her May 31 rapture date failed, Agee, unable to face up to her error, continued her date setting by using various Scripture references to point to June 7, 14, 21 and about 10 other dates.

1999
Well, you can't call Marilyn Agee a quitter. After bombing out badly several time in 1998, Marilyn set a new date for the rapture: May 21 or 22 of this year.

1999
TV newscaster-turned-psychic Charles Criswell King had said in 1968 that the world as we know it would cease to exist on August 18, 1999.

1999
Philip Berg, a rabbi at the Kabbalah Learning Center in New York, proclaimed that the end might arrive on September 11, 1999, when "a ball of fire will descend . . . destroying almost all of mankind, all vegetation, all forms of life."

2000
Numerology: If you divide 2,000 by 3, you will get the devil's number: 666.66666666666667.
2000
The names of the people and organizations that called for the return of Christ at the turn of the century is too long to be listed here. I would say that if there were a day on which Christ could not return, it must have been January 1, 2000. To come at an unknown time means to come at an unknown time. I think January 2, 2000 would have been a more likely day for Him to call His Church home--right after the big let down.

2000
On May 5, 2000, all of the planets were supposed to have been in alignment. This was said to cause the earth to suffer earthquakes, volcanic eruption, and various other nasty stuff. A similar alignment occurred in 1982 and nothing happened. People failed to realize that the other nine planets only exert a very tiny gravitational pull on the earth. If you were to add up the gravitational force from the rest of the planets, the total would only amount to a fraction of the tug the moon has on the earth.

2000
According to Michael Rood, the end times have a prophetically complicated connection to Israel's spring barley harvest. The Day of the Lord began on May 5, 2000. Rood's fall feast calendar called for the Russian Gog-Magog invasion of Israel to take place at sundown on October 28, 2000.

2000-2001
Dr. Dale SumburËru looked for March 22, 1997 to be "the date when all the dramatic events leading through the tribulation to the return of Christ should begin" The actual date of Christ's return could be somewhere between July 2000 and March 2001. Dr. SumburËru is more general about the timing of Christ's second coming than most writers. He states, "The day the Lord returns is currently unknown because He said [Jesus] these days are cut short and it is not yet clear by how much and in what manner they are cut short. If the above assumptions are not correct, my margin of error would be in weeks, or perhaps months."

2002
Priests from Cuba's Afro-Caribbean Yoruba religion predicted a dramatic year of tragedy and crisis for the world in 2002, ranging from coups and war to disease and flooding.

2004
This date for Jesus' return is based upon psalmology, numerology, the biblical 360 days per year, Jewish holidays, and "biblical astronomy." To figure out this date, you'll need a calculator, a slide rule, and plenty of scratch paper.

2011-2018
For the past several decades, Jack Van Impe has hinted at nearly every year as being the time for the rapture. Normally, he has only gone out one or two years from the current calendar year. However, Jack's latest projection for the rapture goes out several years. His new math uses 51 years as the length of a generation. If you add 51 years to 1967, the year Israel recaptured Jerusalem, you get 2018. Once you subtract the seven-year tribulation period, you arrive at 2011.

2012
New Age writers cite Mayan and Aztec calendars that predict the end of the age on December 21, 2012.

2060
Sir Isaac Newton, Britain's greatest scientist, spent 50 years and wrote 4,500 pages trying to predict when the end of the world was coming. The most definitive date he set for the apocalypse, which he scribbled on a scrap of paper, was 2060.

Conclusion: The Bible is not symbolic, but rather factually inaccurate.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

You cannot trust the Old Testament because it is notorious for defying the laws of science, in addition to its contradictions.

Well, to be fair, all holy books defy science and rely on some sort of faith, and to say the Quran, New testament, Old testament, or Bhagavad-Gita are any different in that respect is a far reach. I don't care how many times cleverly written articles on how the torah, gospel or quran have scientific miracles... all of them rely on faith at some point and claim that their Deity can alter science to stop the effects/consequences of the actions in their scritpures.

 

[Philosopher]

Well, to be fair, all holy books defy science and rely on some sort of faith, and to say the Quran, New testament, Old testament, or Bhagavad-Gita are any different in that respect is a far reach.

To lump all holy books together is a logical fallacy.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

To lump all holy books together is a logical fallacy.

Most agnostics you meet will do so, they may be different in their respects, but they mostly preach the same message of a supreme God.

Do you in your heart really believe that all of them do not rely on some sort of faith? They all are very different, but all rely on faith to an extent. None of them are science books.

Philip Berg, a rabbi at the Kabbalah Learning Center in New York, proclaimed that the end might arrive on September 11, 1999, when "a ball of fire will descend . . . destroying almost all of mankind, all vegetation, all forms of life."

Creepy... two years later an airplane hit... that is actually very odd... but I have heard crazier ones like nostradamus (sp?)

 

[Philosopher]

Most agnostics you meet will do so, they may be different in their respects, but they mostly preach the same message of a supreme God.

Do you in your heart really believe that all of them do not rely on some sort of faith? They all are very different, but all rely on faith to an extent. None of them are science books.

Agnostics doing it does not negate the fact it is a logical fallacy. I agree none of them are science books, but they must in harmony with science in order to be taken seriously.

Creepy... two years later an airplane hit... that is actually very odd... but I have heard crazier ones like nostradamus (sp?)

"Ball of Fire" was being referred to a asteroid, extremely large and that will destroy all life and vegetation in the planet. (Much larger than the asteroid that made dinosaurs extinct).

 

[ManchesterFolk]

Agnostics doing it does not negate the fact it is a logical fallacy. I agree none of them are science books, but they must in harmony with science in order to be taken seriously.

True, which is why they are not serious, but the believer can always get off with the "God is all powerful and can manipulate anything" argument, which leads the debate into a stand still.

"Ball of Fire" was being referred to a asteroid, extremely large and that will destroy all life and vegetation in the planet. (Much larger than the asteroid that made dinosaurs extinct).

Yeah, I know, I just got the chills reading Sept 11. have you heard of Nostradamus by the way?

 

[Philosopher]

True, which is why they are not serious, but the believer can always get off with the "God is all powerful and can manipulate anything" argument, which leads the debate into a stand still.

Yes I see that as a problem.

Yeah, I know, I just got the chills reading Sept 11. have you heard of Nostradamus by the way?

His prophecy about 9/11 was most probably a coincidence. Over half of his prophecies remain unfulfilled.

 

[barney]

Actually that prophecy wasnt Nostradamus.

It was by a college student Neil Marshall entitled "A Critical Analysis of Nostradamus. who did a study on Nostradamus, post 9/11 quoting how a Nostradamus type text (rather ironically as it turned out) could be used to be interpreted in several ways.
:rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes :rollseyes

which goes to show...the revisionist nature of prophesy is alive and well in 2007 as much as it was 1 and 2 thousand years ago.

 

[back_to_faith]

Right so the first prophecy could be:



Then Neba is mentioned, but after this verse:



Which makes it seem like a different prophecy since it was at a different time.




)

Dear ,Manchester you are at it again...When will you ever learn?!

though the Lord of the Bible told them to Exekiel at different times , (the years are different.)
but both have the same theme,and that one which time was (in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month) is nothing but a repeat to the same theme of the one was in(1In the tenth year)

the following will clear that:

Why The frist prophecy can't be a future one (as you argue):

First what was it?:

1-Against Pharaoh king of Egypt,has said, 'My Nile is mine, and I myself have made it .(thousands of years ago the pharaohs'kings used to claim that they made the Nile by themselves)

2-due to such arrogance and blsphemy the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will bring upon you a sword and I will cut off from you man and beast.

9"The land of Egypt will become a desolation and waste Then they will know that I am the LORD Because you said, 'The Nile is mine, and I have made it,'and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene and even to the border of Ethiopia.
11"A man's foot will not pass through it, and the foot of a beast will not pass through it, and it will not be inhabited for forty years.


3-I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands."

13'For thus says the Lord GOD, "At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered.


14-Then they will know that I am the Lord GOD."'"


the text of Ezekiel followed immediately by another supplementary information related strongly to the previous one,It is in fact not another prophecy,it is only showing the tool of such desolation....

It says:

1-"Behold, I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon And he will carry off her wealth and capture her spoil and seize her plunder; and it will be wages for his army.
after showing us the tool of the distruction then he repeats exactly the same of his saying in (1 In the tenth year)
that:

1-Egypt will fall
And the pride of her power will come down;
From Migdol to Syene

2-They will fall within her by the sword

3-They will be desolate
In the midst of the desolated lands;
And her cities will be
In the midst of the devastated cities.

4-And they will know that I am the LORD

5-Then the pride of her power will cease in her;
A cloud will cover her,
And her daughters will go into captivity

6- they will know that I am the LORD."


Your far fetched claim of 2 prophecies ,is unique and no Bible scholar ever dared to use it,cause it is absured.

 

[ManchesterFolk]

1-Against Pharaoh king of Egypt,has said, 'My Nile is mine, and I myself have made it .(thousands of years ago the pharaohs'kings used to claim that they made the Nile by themselves)

2-due to such arrogance and blsphemy the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will bring upon you a sword and I will cut off from you man and beast.

9"The land of Egypt will become a desolation and waste Then they will know that I am the LORD Because you said, 'The Nile is mine, and I have made it,'and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene and even to the border of Ethiopia.
11"A man's foot will not pass through it, and the foot of a beast will not pass through it, and it will not be inhabited for forty years.


3-I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands."

13'For thus says the Lord GOD, "At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered.


14-Then they will know that I am the Lord GOD."'"


the text of Ezekiel followed immediately by another supplementary information related strongly to the previous one,It is in fact not another prophecy,it is only showing the tool of such desolation....

1. Pharaoh can signify the leader of Egypt.

2. Sword can mean weapon in many cases. Messianic prophecies have swords mentioned if I am not mistaken. It means a weapon basically, in the context of how Ezekiel would understand. If God says in the bible, they will die by AK-47, how would Ezekiel and millions after interpret it?

3. Has not happend yet according to the theory I am proposing.

the text of Ezekiel followed immediately by another supplementary information related strongly to the previous one,It is in fact not another prophecy,it is only showing the tool of such desolation....

Not before it says:

And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month, in the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, (29:17)

Which shows that this prophecy is from a different date.


If you believe Ezekiel in the Bible could never make two predictions, one involving the Nebachadnezzr cionqering the land, and the other involving the actual land of Egypt becoming desolate at some point, then I cannot explain anything more, I am only suggesting it to be a possibility.

I can list many predictions that look related, but are seperate.

 

[back_to_faith]

1. Pharaoh can signify the leader of Egypt.

2. Sword can mean weapon in many cases.



.

You are not with it Manchester,even the symbolic game can't save you this time

first:

the pharaoh which prophet Ezekiel sat his face against,and made a prophesy against and against all Egypt,is the one who said
'My Nile is mine, and I myself have made it.'
such claim can has never been heared by anyone else but the pharaohs and their kings who claimed that ,and that is supported by dozens of historical discoveries in Egypt. but the theory of man-god who created the universe and the rivers (Nile)etc...has been buried long ago.


second:

according to the prophecy the borders of Egypt from Migdol to Syene and even to Ethiopia.
such borders were the borders of Egypt that time,and by the hands of Nebuchadnezzar God promised to turn it into desolation:

6'Thus says the LORD,
"Indeed, those who support Egypt will fall
And the pride of her power will come down;
From Migdol to Syene
They will fall within her by the sword,"
Declares the Lord GOD.

10'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease
By the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.
11"He and his people with him,
The most ruthless of the nations,
Will be brought in to destroy the land;
And they will draw their swords against Egypt And fill the land with the slain.



third:

Regarding the sword,Yes sometimes could mean a weapon .but in the passage under discussion can by no mean ,something else than a real sword.

according to you ,the sword mentioned in the passage (1In the tenth year, in the tenth month) could means a future weapon as (WMD)

8'Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will bring upon you a sword and I will cut off from you man and beast.
9"The land of Egypt will become a desolation and waste Then they will know that I am the LORD Because you said, 'The Nile is mine, and I have made it,'


according to you, too, the sword used by Nebuchadnezzar was a real one ,as long as he may have attacked Egypt !!!!

10'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease
By the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.
11"He and his people with him,
The most ruthless of the nations,
Will be brought in to destroy the land;
And they will draw their swords against Egypt And fill the land with the slain.


what a hypocrite approach !!!!


you said:

If you believe Ezekiel in the Bible could never make two predictions, one involving the Nebachadnezzr cionqering the land, and the other involving the actual land of Egypt becoming desolate at some point, then I cannot explain anything more


Yes ,you can't explain anything more....It is obvious that you came a full circle ,after using such unique ,far fetched approach,that has never been used even by die hard fundamentalits who spend all day long searching for solutions for the incredible amount of Biblical flaws,inconsistencies,absurdities etc


I even wonder upon what basis you claim to be agnostic ,while in fact you use the approach of the die hard christian fundamentalits !!!!

I also wonder why you wrote your location England in Arabic? Are you from Middle eastern origin?

 

[ManchesterFolk]

the pharaoh which prophet Ezekiel sat his face against,and made a prophesy against and against all Egypt,is the one who said
'My Nile is mine, and I myself have made it.'
such claim can has never been heared by anyone else but the pharaohs and their kings who claimed that ,and that is supported by dozens of historical discoveries in Egypt. but the theory of man-god who created the universe and the rivers (Nile)etc...has been buried long ago.

Really? So it could never happen?!? I believe a ruler of Egypt that claims he created the Nile is far more believable then the Quran and Hebrew Bibles claim of a "ressurection of the dead"... Such theories have been buried long ago as well...

according to the prophecy the borders of Egypt from Migdol to Syene and even to Ethiopia.
such borders were the borders of Egypt that time,and by the hands of Nebuchadnezzar God promised to turn it into desolation:

6'Thus says the LORD,
"Indeed, those who support Egypt will fall
And the pride of her power will come down;
From Migdol to Syene
They will fall within her by the sword,"
Declares the Lord GOD.

10'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease
By the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.
11"He and his people with him,
The most ruthless of the nations,
Will be brought in to destroy the land;
And they will draw their swords against Egypt And fill the land with the slain

Please look at the red text I have undelined... "I will also" it seems like the God of the Bible is claiming two things, at one period in time, Egypt will be decimated (the land) and the other time, The Nebachadnezzar will conquer Egypt (already happend).

third:

Regarding the sword,Yes sometimes could mean a weapon .but in the passage under discussion can by no mean ,something else than a real sword.

according to you ,the sword mentioned in the passage (1In the tenth year, in the tenth month) could means a future weapon as (WMD)

8'Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will bring upon you a sword and I will cut off from you man and beast.
9"The land of Egypt will become a desolation and waste Then they will know that I am the LORD Because you said, 'The Nile is mine, and I have made it,'


according to you, too, the sword used by Nebuchadnezzar was a real one ,as long as he may have attacked Egypt !!!!

10'Thus says the Lord GOD,
"I will also make the hordes of Egypt cease
By the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon.
11"He and his people with him,
The most ruthless of the nations,
Will be brought in to destroy the land;
And they will draw their swords against Egypt And fill the land with the slain.


what a hypocrite approach !!!!

How is it hypocritical? I don;t really understand your logic at all. The one refering the prophecy already fufilled obviously means sword and the one referign to the future destruction of Egypt in the Bible means modern weapons.

Sword is symbolic for "weapon". Do you think all the weapons used by the Neba were swords? No, spears, arrows, chariots, were all used. Therefore the sword means the weapons of the specific force attaing Egypt. One symbolic reference to weapon is in one prophecy, and it could mean another in another prophecy.

Yes ,you can't explain anything more....It is obvious that you came a full circle ,after using such unique ,far fetched approach,that has never been used even by die hard fundamentalits who spend all day long searching for solutions for the incredible amount of Biblical flaws,inconsistencies,absurdities etc


I even wonder upon what basis you claim to be agnostic ,while in fact you use the approach of the die hard christian fundamentalits !!!!

I also wonder why you wrote your location England in Arabic? Are you from Middle eastern origin?

Well first off, I am an Agnostic, but I am just pointing out my specific theories. All of the "holy books" have absurdities btw. But anyway, On a Christian fundy forum I will argue in favor of Islam. I love debating and I love forming my own theories based on the Bible Quran etc, I like making interpetations. I'm not a Christian fundy so why would I care what they think.

Oh and btw I am black of the area Sudan and Ethiopia, living in england.

i'm VERY glad you brought that up.. because today i had actually read an article about islam, and i remember it quoting mohammad MANY times saying that the earth started 6,000 years ago. i wish i would have stayed on that site lol, because it was like an hour ago!!

Such a claim cannot be found in the Quran (unless I compeltly missed it)

 

[don532]

Conclusion: The Bible is not symbolic, but rather factually inaccurate.

Let me apologize in advance because this is off topic for this thread, but I wanted to offer something. Because some people have tried to predict the end of the world doesn't mean the Bible is factually inaccurate. The Bible's statement on the subject is:

From Mark chapter 13 on the return of Christ. I have not posted the whole chapter, only a small part.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

32"But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

33"Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.

The conclusion I draw from this subject, is not that the Bible is factually inaccurate, but rather if the people mentioned in the previous post that wasted so much of their time trying to predict the end times had paid attention to Jesus' words to begin with, they would have not have made such erroneous conclusions about the day or the hour of the end times.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming showing the Bible's factual inaccuracy by debunking a prophecy in Ezekiel.

 

[back_to_faith]

Please look at the red text I have undelined... "I will also" it seems like the God of the Bible is claiming two things, at one period in time, Egypt will be decimated (the land) and the other time, The Nebachadnezzar will conquer Egypt (already happend).

)

Manchester,being factual has never been one of your strong points.......

this time I will give you Biblical academic lesson for your benefit:


First:

Let,s concentrate more on the passage which you claim that could yet be fulfilled in the future,

The reason of the prophecy according to the Bible was exactly the same reason of the other similar temporary prophecies against Tyre and other sinful places etc....:

examples:

1-

Ezekiel 21

Babylon, God's Sword of Judgment
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against Jerusalem and preach against the sanctuary. Prophesy against the land of Israel 3 and say to her: 'This is what the LORD says: I am against you. I will draw my sword from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the wicked. 4 Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north. 5 Then all people will know that I the LORD have drawn my sword from its scabbard; it will not return again.'

2-

Ezekiel 26

A Prophecy Against Tyre
1 In the eleventh year, on the first day of the month, the word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, because Tyre has said of Jerusalem, 'Aha! The gate to the nations is broken, and its doors have swung open to me; now that she lies in ruins I will prosper,' 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring many nations against you, like the sea casting up its waves. 4 They will destroy the walls of Tyre and pull down her towers; I will scrape away her rubble and make her a bare rock. 5 Out in the sea she will become a place to spread fishnets, for I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD. She will become plunder for the nations, 6 and her settlements on the mainland will be ravaged by the sword. Then they will know that I am the LORD.


and who will be the instrument for such destruction of Tyre?


7 "For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar [a] king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you.


Ezekiel 28
A Prophecy Against the King of Tyre
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'In the pride of your heart
you say, "I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas."
But you are a man and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.
3 Are you wiser than Daniel [a] ?
Is no secret hidden from you?
4 By your wisdom and understanding
you have gained wealth for yourself
and amassed gold and silver
in your treasuries.
5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud.
6 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,
7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.
8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.

3-

A Prophecy Against Sidon

20 The word of the LORD came to me: 21 "Son of man, set your face against Sidon; prophesy against her 22 and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'I am against you, O Sidon,
and I will gain glory within you.
They will know that I am the LORD,
when I inflict punishment on her
and show myself holy within her.
23 I will send a plague upon her
and make blood flow in her streets.
The slain will fall within her,
with the sword against her on every side.
Then they will know that I am the LORD.

24 " 'No longer will the people of Israel have malicious neighbors who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

4-

Ezekiel 25

A Prophecy Against Ammon
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, set your face against the Ammonites and prophesy against them. 3 Say to them, 'Hear the word of the Sovereign LORD. This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Because you said "Aha!" over my sanctuary when it was desecrated and over the land of Israel when it was laid waste and over the people of Judah when they went into exile, 4 therefore I am going to give you to the people of the East as a possession


Now immediately after the Prophecy Against the sinful Sidon ,we find A Prophecy Against the sinful Egypt under the leadership by the sinful Pharaoh:


the reason according to the Bible for it was:

1-The house of Israel depended on the sinful Egypt,

Ezekiel 29:6 Then all who live in Egypt will know that I am the LORD.
" 'You have been a staff of reed for the house of Israel. 7 When they grasped you with their hands, you splintered and you tore open their shoulders; when they leaned on you, you broke and their backs were wrenched.

the same idea could be found in Isaiah:

"WOE to the rebellious children, saith the Lord, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add to their sin: That walk to go down into EGYPT, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in Pharaoh, and to TRUST in the shadow of Egypt! Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion" (Isaiah 30:1-3).


2-
The Pharaoh king of Egypt, claimed with arrogance and blasphemy ,Ezekiel 29:1
"The Nile is mine; I made it for myself."

Actually Manchester,you distorted what I said regarding such saying completely:

I said:

such claim has never been heared by anyone else but the pharaohs and their kings who claimed that ,and that is supported by dozens of historical discoveries in Egypt.

In other words I give my endorsment on Ezekiel saying, that the pharaoh which he prophecised against ,said that "The Nile is mine; I made it for myself."

The Pharaoh believed that he was god of the Nile, that he created the Nile.
and that is supported Historically .....
The Egyptians yielded to the Pharaohs as gods. They believed that if they did not serve the Pharaohs well, the Nile would not rise and they would not have a good farming season.

that is why God prophecies of a destruction at hand against Egypt ,similar to that of its sinful neighbours :

"Son of man, set your face against Pharaoh king of Egypt and prophesy against him and against all Egypt. 3 Speak to him and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
Ezekiel 29:1
" 'I am against you, Pharaoh king of Egypt,
you great monster lying among your streams.
You say, "The Nile is mine;
I made it for myself."

and

" 'Because you said, "The Nile is mine; I made it," 10 therefore I am against you and against your streams, and I will make the land of Egypt a ruin and a desolate waste from Migdol to Aswan, as far as the border of Cush. 11 No foot of man or animal will pass through it; no one will live there for forty years.


I'm afraid Manchester may be your wild Imagination ,let you bless us next time of another creative idea that the Egyptians will be punished sometime in the future by the Idolatry and the wickdness of the king pharaoh who claimed the Nile to be his self-made.......If you think so then you need to listen to the words of wisdom God put on the mouth of Ezekiel
Ezekiel 18

20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.


peace for All

 

[ManchesterFolk]

A Prophecy Against Tyre

I actually read an intersting article here: Not sure how much is BS:

http://www.tektonics.org/uz/zeketyre.html

Do you have objections to it? I'd love to hear what is BS, cause in all these articles written by an atheist or crazy fundi there is always BS.

such claim has never been heared by anyone else but the pharaohs and their kings who claimed that ,and that is supported by dozens of historical discoveries in Egypt.

In other words I give my endorsment on Ezekiel saying, that the pharaoh which he prophecised against ,said that "The Nile is mine; I made it for myself."

The Pharaoh believed that he was god of the Nile, that he created the Nile.
and that is supported Historically .....
The Egyptians yielded to the Pharaohs as gods. They believed that if they did not serve the Pharaohs well, the Nile would not rise and they would not have a good farming season.

that is why God prophecies of a destruction at hand against Egypt ,similar to that of its sinful neighbours :

"Son of man, set your face against Pharaoh king of Egypt and prophesy against him and against all Egypt. 3 Speak to him and say: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
Ezekiel 29:1
" 'I am against you, Pharaoh king of Egypt,
you great monster lying among your streams.
You say, "The Nile is mine;
I made it for myself."

BINGO! YES! Finally. Thank God or whoever is the Deity!!!! I discovered that hole in my theory a days ago (point it out if you have mentioned the exact point you amde right now) and have been waiting for you to mention it... lol. My "theory" is in shambles :giggling: . And yes before you ask I do have to much time on my hands, and I may be considered nerdy and an odd humor.... lol. I though you would never bring up that point and I was waiting to see how long you would remain oblivious to it, lol. Oh well, and please do point it out if I am an idiot and the first post you mentioned it and I accidnetly skipped over it. Either way i'll throw some reps ure way for gettin it, and u can neg rep me if i did skip over it and you have made that point that it couldnt be a furture prediction.

Now lets wait for rav to finish his trip cause im curious as to what hes gonna say. thirdwatches excuse was lamer then my theory i made out of thin air. lol. although, hes a smart dude but i think most people who put such a huge amount of faith in any book are kinda brainwashed (no offense) although youll say im brainwashed by "satan"...