Westerners disrespecting Muslim/Arab culture

[Talha777]

As far as double standards and disrespect of culture, the person who posted this thread is already done the exact same in his posts. Point is the west does not respect muslim/ arab culture anymore than the muslim/ arab culture respects the west. The west wants to force you not to wear something and the muslim/ arab wants to force you to wear something, they are both examples of double standards

As I have already mentioned in my prior post, there needs to be a double standard. Islam says enjoin good and forbid evil. If that means a double standard, so be it.

But this must be considered, a naked woman on the beach is of no threat to anyone except herself as she will likely develop skin cancer. A person in a niqab is a possible security threat, since they could be man or woman and very well could be carry an explosive device.

The more I read these posts, the more I understand the Western mentality, which has a flawed belief that more freedom is a positive thing. This person thinks a naked woman in public poses no threat, except skin cancer to herself. This is the Western mentality, it is entirely materialistic. It only sees positive in something which has material or worldly value, and it only sees negative and something which doesn't. This is the bane of our difference and the essential reason for the clash between Islamic moralism and Western materialism. The threat which a naked woman poses is a threat to morality, decency, and truth. These aren't viewed as problems in the West because there is no material aspect to these threats.

Allah is not one eyed while Anti-Christ is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape. (Sahih Bukhari: Kitabul Anbiya)

So do not be like Dajjal, learn to see with two eyes, and don't just focus on the material benefits of things in life.

 

[islamirama]

that is a joke, where do you get your facts

Lets see...

hijab banned in france
niqaab banned in many european nations and a big issue in uk
Muslims harassed

Non-Muslims free to do as they pleace in Muslim countries, within reasonable frame.

perhaps you should travel abit and you'll find out.

Muslims in Europe and USA have much more freedom that muslims in so called muslim coutries.

That too varies. Muslims banned from hijab in france but can do niqaab in pakistan, uae, saudi, yemen, indonesia, and many other countries.

 

[Keltoi]

As Kading mentioned earlier, tourism and immigration are two completely different things. If the UAE, for example, attempts to bring in tourist money with an ad campaign showing scenes that you would find at most beaches around the world, including bikini clad women, then you will get bikini clad tourists.

If I move to the UAE, it is my responsibility as an immigrant to find out what is acceptable behavior and live by that standard. If a Muslim moves to the U.S., they should do the same. The rest is the same old "veil" debate that has been explored over and over again on this forum.

 

[islamirama]

As Kading mentioned earlier, tourism and immigration are two completely different things. If the UAE, for example, attempts to bring in tourist money with an ad campaign showing scenes that you would find at most beaches around the world, including bikini clad women, then you will get bikini clad tourists.

If I move to the UAE, it is my responsibility as an immigrant to find out what is acceptable behavior and live by that standard. If a Muslim moves to the U.S., they should do the same. The rest is the same old "veil" debate that has been explored over and over again on this forum.

I concur :thumbs_up

 

[MTAFFI]

Lets see...

hijab banned in france
niqaab banned in many european nations and a big issue in uk
Muslims harassed

Non-Muslims free to do as they pleace in Muslim countries, within reasonable frame.

perhaps you should travel abit and you'll find out.

So because in two countries some clothing has been banned because of security issues, and some Muslims have been harrassed, so with these facts you believe that Muslim countries allow more freedom. Lets see here what is wrong with this picture, oh wait now I see, it is completely lop sided. Did you forget to mention the freedom of the press in Muslims countries, freedom of speech, womens rights, the right not to wear a hijab or niqaab, the right to speak against your government without being arrested? Or did you forget about the Buddhists and other polytheist that dont have a right to worship how they choose and can be put to death for their beliefs? Or how about not being able to have a beer in public or go to a nude bar? Believe it or not, not everyone finds these things to be evil and not everyone believes in God, but I am sure you simply summarized all of this for me with your "reasonable frame" comment, right? Perhaps it is you who should travel a bit sir, I have made my way around the world several times, the difference between myself and some tourists is I do not go places that I know I wont be able to exercise my rights as I please.

 

[MTAFFI]

As I have already mentioned in my prior post, there needs to be a double standard. Islam says enjoin good and forbid evil. If that means a double standard, so be it.

That is fine, you can believe that your culture is better than others, I believe my culture is better than yours, however that doesnt make either of us right since a culture doesnt define a person, it defines their surroundings. By the way if the culture is so terrible why do you live in Canada, they are even more liberal than the US?

The more I read these posts, the more I understand the Western mentality, which has a flawed belief that more freedom is a positive thing. This person thinks a naked woman in public poses no threat, except skin cancer to herself. This is the Western mentality, it is entirely materialistic. It only sees positive in something which has material or worldly value, and it only sees negative and something which doesn't. This is the bane of our difference and the essential reason for the clash between Islamic moralism and Western materialism. The threat which a naked woman poses is a threat to morality, decency, and truth. These aren't viewed as problems in the West because there is no material aspect to these threats.

Allah is not one eyed while Anti-Christ is blind in the right eye and his eye looks like a bulging out grape. (Sahih Bukhari: Kitabul Anbiya)

So do not be like Dajjal, learn to see with two eyes, and don't just focus on the material benefits of things in life.

I am not sure how you are getting this materialistic thing out of my post.. I simply said that the naked woman isnt physically harming anyone. If you cant walk by a pretty woman without wishing to have sex with her you are a pervert, and covering women up from head to toe wont change that. If you go to the beach then you should expect to see people in bathing suits, no one likes to swim in a niqaab, the thought of it is ridiculous. If you dont want to see a woman in a bathing suit, dont go to the beach. People deserve to have fun in life and you can do that while at the same time showing respect to God. Laying naked on the beach isnt the best way to accomplish it and I think this woman is wrong for doing it but what is anyone supposed to do about it the girl obviously recieved some sort of reprecussion.

 

[islamirama]

So because in two countries some clothing has been banned because of security issues, and some Muslims have been harrassed, so with these facts you believe that Muslim countries allow more freedom. Lets see here what is wrong with this picture, oh wait now I see, it is completely lop sided. Did you forget to mention the freedom of the press in Muslims countries, freedom of speech, womens rights, the right not to wear a hijab or niqaab, the right to speak against your government without being arrested? Or did you forget about the Buddhists and other polytheist that dont have a right to worship how they choose and can be put to death for their beliefs? Or how about not being able to have a beer in public or go to a nude bar? Believe it or not, not everyone finds these things to be evil and not everyone believes in God, but I am sure you simply summarized all of this for me with your "reasonable frame" comment, right? Perhaps it is you who should travel a bit sir, I have made my way around the world several times, the difference between myself and some tourists is I do not go places that I know I wont be able to exercise my rights as I please.

Let’s break it down shall we

Since when did wearing hijab become a security issue? what are you afraid is being hidden under a piece of cloth?


Press is limited in Muslim countries as well as freedom of speech, women rights and right to speak against your gov’t. This is the case in many countries but not all and this is regardless of you being Muslim or not. No one special group is targeted out like Muslims are in Europe. As for hijab/niqaab, that too is banned in some countries like turkey and morocco who try to please the western powers. What can you expect from secular rulers of Muslim lands? But overall, you will find more acceptance and less hatred for hijab/niqaab in muslim world then you will in Europe. I tried limiting to a few things, but if you want to know what the Europeans have done and are at it, then check it out here

As for Buddhist and polytheists and others, they too worship what they want over there, unless you can bring proof to back up your claims? There are brothels and other adult oriented places available for non Muslims as well, they are just a hush hush deal with the authorities the owners. You may have traveled the world but if you don’t go where you think you may not have the right to exercise you will never really find out how much rights you have there. You probably don’t even know that in Saudi, where niqaab is the law of the land, you can go without even a hijab on as non-muslim.

 

[MTAFFI]

Let’s break it down shall we

Since when did wearing hijab become a security issue? what are you afraid is being hidden under a piece of cloth?

How about the man who wore the Niqaab to escape British authorities, or the possibility that a terrorist could wear this to conceal weapons or bombs while in a public place with a large number of people. It is with out a doubt a security concern.

Press is limited in Muslim countries as well as freedom of speech, women rights and right to speak against your gov’t. This is the case in many countries but not all and this is regardless of you being Muslim or not. No one special group is targeted out like Muslims are in Europe. As for hijab/niqaab, that too is banned in some countries like turkey and morocco who try to please the western powers. What can you expect from secular rulers of Muslim lands? But overall, you will find more acceptance and less hatred for hijab/niqaab in muslim world then you will in Europe. I tried limiting to a few things, but if you want to know what the Europeans have done and are at it, then check it out here

As for Buddhist and polytheists and others, they too worship what they want over there, unless you can bring proof to back up your claims? There are brothels and other adult oriented places available for non Muslims as well, they are just a hush hush deal with the authorities the owners. You may have traveled the world but if you don’t go where you think you may not have the right to exercise you will never really find out how much rights you have there. You probably don’t even know that in Saudi, where niqaab is the law of the land, you can go without even a hijab on as non-muslim.

In Muslim land a polytheist can not practice religion because it is law in Islam that a polytheist be put to death, I will find a link that proves this, but I think you know this as well as I do and everyone else.

As far as not going there and knowing my rights, it isnt just about my rights. Do you know I have never been anywhere that I have felt out of place? I have never felt as though people hated me because of my skin or looks? The reason I dont visit the middle eastern countries is because some people there believe their culture is, as said above by Talha777, better than mine, and has different beliefs, values, etc. So I dont go there because I do not wish to put myself in that position. The problem that Islam is having is a direct result of the actions taken by those who share the faith of Islam. This whole problem popped up over night, before 9/11 no one attacked or hated Muslims, it happens now because of the constant complaining and attacks that are shown to be coming from Muslims. Muslims are coming to other peoples land and expecting everyone to treat them as if they were anyone else, while at the same time they set themselves apart from everyone else. Muslims, in my opinion, in many places distanced themselves from the rest of the world and there is nothing wrong with that, but dont expect the rest of the world not to distance themselves from you as well. My suggestion would be, if you wish to live among the people of the west do it because you like our culture and way of life and if you dont, simply stay where you are and you wont have any problems.

 

[islamirama]

How about the man who wore the Niqaab to escape British authorities, or the possibility that a terrorist could wear this to conceal weapons or bombs while in a public place with a large number of people. It is with out a doubt a security concern.

I think you are confused about which is which, becuase you had previously said hijab poses a security risk.

hijab = head scarf
niqab = face veil

One person tried to use that trick, one isolated incident. It's really not that big of an issue as some make it out to be. If there's a problem, the security people can ask the person to show her face and being sensitive to her faith they can have a female officer do that.

In Muslim land a polytheist can not practice religion because it is law in Islam that a polytheist be put to death, I will find a link that proves this, but I think you know this as well as I do and everyone else.

what you are stating is what you probably read or heard from others. If you go visit, you will see people of many faith living as they please and praciticing their faith as they please.

As far as not going there and knowing my rights, it isnt just about my rights. Do you know I have never been anywhere that I have felt out of place? I have never felt as though people hated me because of my skin or looks? The reason I dont visit the middle eastern countries is because some people there believe their culture is, as said above by Talha777, better than mine, and has different beliefs, values, etc. So I dont go there because I do not wish to put myself in that position.

Americans are known to be ethenocentric, this is even taught in the history class. What you are afraid of by going to those countries is what immigrants go thru while they visit these lands.

The problem that Islam is having is a direct result of the actions taken by those who share the faith of Islam. This whole problem popped up over night, before 9/11 no one attacked or hated Muslims, it happens now because of the constant complaining and attacks that are shown to be coming from Muslims. Muslims are coming to other peoples land and expecting everyone to treat them as if they were anyone else, while at the same time they set themselves apart from everyone else. Muslims, in my opinion, in many places distanced themselves from the rest of the world and there is nothing wrong with that, but dont expect the rest of the world not to distance themselves from you as well. My suggestion would be, if you wish to live among the people of the west do it because you like our culture and way of life and if you dont, simply stay where you are and you wont have any problems.

I won't get into 9-11 issue as the verdict is still out on who really did that with well over 25 countries majority saying they really don't know despite what the US media has bombarded the views with.

Muslims have been living in non-Muslim lands for decades. There was never a problem or an issue. You can be different and still get along. This whole conflict is being stired by the politicans and the gov'ts. Take away all the negative association of everything in the world with Islam and constant negative publicity of Islam and you won't have all this tension among Muslims and non-Muslims.

 

[Philosopher]

The carping about women going topless seems a bit petty.

The carnage we see in Iraq and elsewhere, where Moslems are slaughtering other Moslems seems, at least to me, disrespectful. You’re too consumed with trivial choices people make.

Why not show a little respect for things that matter – like human life.

Wow, you're good at avoiding blame, arent you??

Maybe you should also consider your own people who slaughter "Muslims" in Iraq and Afghanistan in massive quantities. Maybe you should stop being a hypocrite and start respecting human life yourself. You and people like you have a bad track record and still do over this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6636343.stm

 

[Woodrow]

How did a simple thread pointing out that we all need to be sensitive to the cultures of other people, become an argument over the morality values of the world.

Unless the next post can show the connection between this and the opening thread, I am going to consider the discussion as being completed.

 

[MTAFFI]

How did a simple thread pointing out that we all need to be sensitive to the cultures of other people, become an argument over the morality values of the world.

Unless the next post can show the connection between this and the opening thread, I am going to consider the discussion as being completed.

I think that the issue of morality ties into this post as the post is about disrespect of culture. Each cultures morality is different and is more and less tolerant in regards to certain things in society. When one person or cultures morality is strict and anothers is very lenient it sets up for a clash of cultures, especially when travel from one place to another is so easy these days, and this is where it is seen as disrespect. Really when it is thought of this way, people can see that it is in fact not disrespect to another culture, rather it is simply a person just doing what they would regularly do and being ignorant to their surroundings. I guess I think morality ties into this because people need to be aware of what others consider moral may be what they consider immoral, and also that some people do not have morals. There is no right or wrong really, just different opinions, which is what I think is being discussed here. Did that make sense?:hiding: Sorry if it didnt....lol

 

[Sami Zaatari]

I’ll certainly do my best to respond within the context of the thread topic. No nation is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. The fact is, however, that Moslems living in the West have greater freedom of religion than those living in Islamic nations.

It’s certainly not disrespectful of the West to allow Moslems the freedom of religion that Moslems explicitly disallow those of competing religions. It’s certainly not disrespectful that we in the West allow Moslems to build mosques in our neighborhoods when Moslems explicitly disallow the building of Churches and Synagogues in muslim lands™. My home is in America. We have fought hard to secure and to defend our rights to freedom of expression, religion, thought and freedom of the press. These concepts are antithetical to Islam's agenda. We saw what happened to Theo Van Gogh in Holland when he criticized Islam. There’s a roll call of others: Salman Rushdie. And Ibn Warraq. And Irshad Manji. There are plenty of others who have died not for disrespecting islam but for exercising a basic western freedom of open debate. Their only “crime” was in treating Islam with the same critical analysis as any other religion. If you’re going to wantonly and callously disrespect the rights of others - as Moslems do with astonishingly regularity - while making arrogant demands that you deserve the very respect you deny others, don’t be surprised if your demands are countered with someone getting in your face… like now.

It’s more than just disrespectful to murder people for challenging your positions, it’s illegal and immoral. Apparently what you want is to secure for Islam a position of privileged inviolability in public discussion and in print.

can you please stop lying, or do you expect us to be ignorant fools like fox news readers? do you think we wont check up on your 'facts'? you claim churches cant be built in muslim countries, wow, lets expose you real bad now, heres a link of churches in the united arab emirates a muslim country:

http://www.pinoyuae.com/newpinoy/church_ad.html

this shows how ignorant, arrogant, and hate-bigoted filled you are, i can get much more links of churches across the muslim world, but that should do in exposing your lie that churches are EXPLICITLY banned from being built in muslim countries, please dont come here with your hate and rubbish talk.

and you mention salman rushdie and debate, lol, your funny, salman rushdies book wasnt a book on debate, his book was a book of mockery and insulting, thats not called 'open dialog debate' thats just called mocking and insulting, you sound illogical very illogical, oh yes we will insult and mock the heck out of you for a nice fair dialog! thats not called dialog, thats called low class having no manners and wanting to make people angry. how about i go call the bible every single evil name, and you see the reception i will get from christians, so plz dont come say this 'debate' nonsense, there is debate, but when you debate you have manners and you dont start mocking and insulting, thats not called debating so dont come here and try to white-wash things plz.

so next time you wanna speak, dont lie plz or is that all you have because your so hate filled? i have bad news for you, Islam is here to stay, and the west will be islamic by the next century, we will see how you feel then when all your hate wont be able to stop Islam.

 

[Muezzin]

Stop fighting or the thread will close, people.

 

[Hashim_507]

Tourist should get educated about muslim countries especially religiously and colturaly.

 

[guyabano]

As I mentionned already in the beginning, both sides must make efforts. The one who want to get/earn the money, but also the one who like to spend the money.
You cannot adpot a mentality by saying 'before you come to my country, please read the rules, learn about islam and respect the culture'
The tourist will simply say: 'Ok, so I go somewhere else. There are plenty other countries, who want to get my money!'
Conclusion: The one with his stiff mentality wanting to educate a tourist will still bite the dust, while his neighbour will laugh because his hotels are overbooked.

I say, as a western tourist, I will respect the cultures of the country. But don't teach me about religion or make my wife wear a veil when she don't like or else I spend my money somewhere else. - Simple-

 

[Malaikah]

The tourist will simply say: 'Ok, so I go somewhere else. There are plenty other countries, who want to get my money!'

All countries would expect you to show some level of respect for their laws and culture.

And there aren't many countries, if any at all, that offer westerners the works opportunities in the same way Dubai does.

 

[guyabano]

All countries would expect you to show some level of respect for their laws and culture.

And there aren't many countries, if any at all, that offer westerners the works opportunities in the same way Dubai does.

I spoke about tourists ! And besides, if you mention workers, not much westeners will go there as the jobs there are miserable salaries. Most foreigners who work there anyway are pinoys (philippinos).

 

[rania2820]

So because in two countries some clothing has been banned because of security issues, and some Muslims have been harrassed, so with these facts you believe that Muslim countries allow more freedom. Lets see here what is wrong with this picture, oh wait now I see, it is completely lop sided. Did you forget to mention the freedom of the press in Muslims countries, freedom of speech, womens rights, the right not to wear a hijab or niqaab, the right to speak against your government without being arrested? Or did you forget about the Buddhists and other polytheist that dont have a right to worship how they choose and can be put to death for their beliefs? Or how about not being able to have a beer in public or go to a nude bar? Believe it or not, not everyone finds these things to be evil and not everyone believes in God, but I am sure you simply summarized all of this for me with your "reasonable frame" comment, right? Perhaps it is you who should travel a bit sir, I have made my way around the world several times, the difference between myself and some tourists is I do not go places that I know I wont be able to exercise my rights as I please.

ok first of all you need to actually visted the middle east and not take all your info from wikipedia. how about actually visting a place before making jugment.
i have lived in the middle east for almost 9 years now.
the thing you saying are not allowed in the muslim countries is not true. people in all of the muslim coutries (excluding saudi and iran) have bars and the people can buy beers,vodka you name at .and non-muslims are allowed to worship their religion. do you forget about the amount of jewish and christian arabs? its only the american media that claims these people are torture. in syria for example its actually them muslims who are starting to take on christian names because it gives them better jobs.
and as for freedom of press. do you actually think in USA we have total freedom of press.if you think that you are clearly a naive human being,.freedom of speech and press is a myth.and i suppose yo believe in the american dream as well? no offense but this is the problem with white america(and i don't mean by race just by the mentality), its way too ignorant about how the world works and even less how their country works. try living among a people before judging them. because you are so so ignorant about how the middle east.

 

[north_malaysian]

Hey... you cannot chew your chewing gum in Singapore. Regardless of your religions and cultures... so just follow the rules.... wherever u are