Why do muslims use the bible if they don't 'believe' in it?

[Keltoi]

Yes, but Protestants don't claim to have visions of Mary, sometimes with Mary talking back and forth with them (heard this on EWTN once). Nor do they claim that Mary intercedes for them, a position described in the Bible as Christ's and Christ's alone.

On that we do agree.

 

[MustafaMc]

Actually, Protestants do consider Mary to be the mother of Jesus Christ. Protestants and Catholics believe Jesus Christ to be God, so logically Mary then becomes the "Mother of God" in that limited sense, as being the birth mother of Jesus Christ.

Yes, your logic is correct. However, ask ANY Baptist if Mary is the "Mother of God" and he/she will say no.

 

[MustafaMc]

I do not mean any disrespect to either Mary or Jesus (pbuh) - actually, quite the opposite as they are among the most honored of human beings to have ever lived.

I also don't know whether Catholics hold Mary as divine, but the logical interpretation of "Mother of God" implies at least an equivalent relationship with God. I refer to the respect that is commanded in one of the 10 Commandments - Honor thy father and mother.

Christians generally hold Jesus to be synonymous with God - being at the same time God and Son of God. In the Southern region of USA, there is a comon saying, "Lord help me, Jesus!" However, Jesus referred back to God when he said one must do the will of God (his Father) to enter heaven. Mt 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Please, compare these concepts to how Muslims respect Muhammad (pbuh) as only the Prophet and Messenger of Allah and in no sense do we hold him as equal with Allah. We do not pray to Muhammad, nor do we ask him to help us.

 

[SeekingOne]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

^To Christians, Jesus and God are one, not 2 distinct entities. Many fail to grasp this concept, and continue to assume that Christians believe that Jesus is indeed literally God's son.

Westcoast, making absolute statements can (and usually will) come back to undermine you.

The truth of the matter is that not all Christians believe or accept that Jesus and God are one. Many Christians believe they are distinct entities.

From the United Methodist Book of Discipline, Article I, The Confession of Faith:

"We believe in the one true, holy, and living God, Eternal Spirit, who is Creator, Sovereign and Preserver of all things visible and invisible. He is infinte in power, wisdom, justice, goodness and love, and rules with gracious regard for the well-being and salvation of men, to the glory of his name. We believe the one God reveals himself as the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, distinct but inseparable, eternally one in essence and power." [Emphasis mine]

If we accept your hypothesis that God and Jesus are one, then how can we reconcile that with the above statment of the one true God being sovereign? Please remember the concept of the Father, Son and Spirit being one is not a Biblical 'mystery', it is an innovation of man.

Let me ask a question of you - If God and Jesus are one, then who do you suggest was the Sovereign Preserver of all things seen and unseen, during the two days and nights the Bible alleges He was allegedly dead and buried? Christians say God and Jesus are one, so they are willing to accept that God is not eternal and that God could die?

I understand what your Christian faith wants you to believe, but I ask you to attempt consideration of this concept without that predisposition.

It was the realization of the above contradictions that led this former United Methodist pastor to revert to Islam. Alhamdulillah!

 

[Redeemed]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

Westcoast, making absolute statements can (and usually will) come back to undermine you.

The truth of the matter is that not all Christians believe or accept that Jesus and God are one. Many Christians believe they are distinct entities.

From the United Methodist Book of Discipline, Article I, The Confession of Faith:

"We believe in the one true, holy, and living God, Eternal Spirit, who is Creator, Sovereign and Preserver of all things visible and invisible. He is infinte in power, wisdom, justice, goodness and love, and rules with gracious regard for the well-being and salvation of men, to the glory of his name. We believe the one God reveals himself as the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, distinct but inseparable, eternally one in essence and power." [Emphasis mine]

If we accept your hypothesis that God and Jesus are one, then how can we reconcile that with the above statment of the one true God being sovereign? Please remember the concept of the Father, Son and Spirit being one is not a Biblical 'mystery', it is an innovation of man.

Let me ask a question of you - If God and Jesus are one, then who do you suggest was the Sovereign Preserver of all things seen and unseen, during the two days and nights the Bible alleges He was allegedly dead and buried? Christians say God and Jesus are one, so they are willing to accept that God is not eternal and that God could die?

I understand what your Christian faith wants you to believe, but I ask you to attempt consideration of this concept without that predisposition.

It was the realization of the above contradictions that led this former United Methodist pastor to revert to Islam. Alhamdulillah!

The Bible does not mention Trinity; however it does speak of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and each of these are referred to as God through out the Scriptures. Christians cannot explain how that is possible, but they believe with God all things are possible and with child like faith except it as true. Jesus said, "Unless you become as a child, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." God spoke in the beginning. He said, "Let us make man in our image and likeness." Who was He talking to? Christians believe that there is only one God. They believe that God is a Spirit. Since He is Holy, He is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is God's word that was made flesh and dwelt amongst us (The Son of the living God). His name is Immanuel (God with us) God dwelt with us in the form of Jesus because He could identify with us better. And as many as received Him to them gave He the power to become the sons of God. It is written we are being conformed to the image of Jesus if we are His.

 

[NoName55]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

The Bible does not mention Trinity;

That shows me how little your knowledge of Bible is, for it is mentioned once and it keeps getting chucked out then put back in then thrown out again.

you can find it in kjv but I am not going to tell you exactly where so that you will be forced to read it all so that you might come across some of thousand of contradictions and fabrications contained therein. by the way did you know that more than 80 % of new testament material is fabricated?

No, Not my claim but Christian scholars said it

 

[Keltoi]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

That shows me how little your knowledge of Bible is, for it is mentioned once and it keeps getting chucked out then put back in then thrown out again.

you can find it in kjv but I am not going to tell you exactly where so that you will be forced to read it all so that you might come across some of thousand of contradictions and fabrications contained therein. by the way did you know that more than 80 % of new testament material is fabricated?

No, Not my claim but Christian scholars said it

80% huh? :rollseyes What "Christian" scholars would these be?

 

[Redeemed]

your entire post is null and void as i'm not a catholic but have iterated the same thing in a different thread.
nice try though.

Why wouldn't you want anyone to know your faith? I would think you're not a Christian for sure. True Christians are not ashamed to share their beliefs.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

That shows me how little your knowledge of Bible is, for it is mentioned once and it keeps getting chucked out then put back in then thrown out again.

you can find it in kjv but I am not going to tell you exactly where so that you will be forced to read it all so that you might come across some of thousand of contradictions and fabrications contained therein. by the way did you know that more than 80 % of new testament material is fabricated?

No, Not my claim but Christian scholars said it

I did not find the word "Trinity" but I found it implied here. Matthew 28:19-20 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Note how Jesus (pbuh) told them to teach others to follow what he had commanded the disciples to observe - not to teach others that he was the Son of God.

 

[Redeemed]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

Maybe we have a thread for this, not sure. Why did God have Jesus be born of a Virgin and not experience death but mohamed was born normally and died (or am I wrong here, he was raised to Heaven too, wast he?)?

The devil doesn't want people to see that Jesus can set them free.

 

[Woodrow]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

The devil doesn't want people to see that Jesus can set them free.

Perhaps you may also want to look at the other side of that coin.

The devil doesn't want people to see that knowing the true teachings of Jesus(as) can set them free.

 

[islamirama]

Narrated Ubaidullah bin Abdullah bin Utba:

Ibn Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Quran) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."
​

Sahi Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 850

 

[Kashnowe]

i'm sure this has been asked before but i can't seem to find it.

so what proof do muslims have that the quran is the word of God?

i think its a good point that just because the quran has remained unchanged that that means it is more reputable than the bible. i can write a book in english today and claim it is the word of God and in 1000 years it will remain unchanged and people will still be reading it.....this doesn't mean it is the word of God.

so that argument about the bible being wrong because it was translated is really a poor one.....

 

[Redeemed]

Narrated Ubaidullah bin Abdullah bin Utba:

Ibn Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Quran) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."
​

Sahi Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 850

Sahi Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 850
__________________
This dunya is like a shadow. If you try to catch it, you will never be able to do so. If you turn your back towards it, it has no choice but to follow you. Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah


I don't have time to chase shadows or run from them. I need to forget those things which are behind and press forward into the kingdom of God and the high calling of God! To know God and make Him known.

 

[Redeemed]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

Perhaps you may also want to look at the other side of that coin.

The devil doesn't want people to see that knowing the true teachings of Jesus(as) can set them free.

How can your Jesus set us free?:?

 

[islamirama]

i'm sure this has been asked before but i can't seem to find it.

so what proof do muslims have that the quran is the word of God?

i think its a good point that just because the quran has remained unchanged that that means it is more reputable than the bible. i can write a book in english today and claim it is the word of God and in 1000 years it will remain unchanged and people will still be reading it.....this doesn't mean it is the word of God.

so that argument about the bible being wrong because it was translated is really a poor one.....

Bible is not longer what it was before. it has been changed numerous times thru out history. Men keep changing it to suit their needs. King Henry got the new version out so he could divorce his wife and get a new one. There's too many fallacies and contradictions. When is a book no longer that of the author? at what point do you take and add so much to it that it no longer conveys the message the original author wrote? Most recently in the news, Germany is coming out with a new bible. This bible will be in simple english so everyone can understand it (ppl seem to be getting dumber), and this new version will take out anything that it anti-gay and anti-jewish in there. So tell me again what part of the orginal message is left in there?

The fact that something has been unchanged itself proofs how authentic and reliable the material is in that book. If you can't even verify something is the authentic source what else can you go on? We already know as it is confirmed even by non-Muslims that Quran has been unchanged and is today as it was 1400yrs ago.

So the question left than is, what proof is there that this is the book from God? since it's not changed, then it means we are looking at the original stuff of the author. And for the proof, you would have to read the book and see for yourself. See what is written in the book and compare that to the knowledge humans had at that time in history. And then ask if it was possible for humans to know that, much less an illiterate man preaching this book?

So read the book yourself and see what is said in there and see for yourself. perhaps you can look at this site www.islam-guide.com and tell me how did Quran knew all this with limited human knowledge over 1400yrs ago?

Lastly, check these videos out.

european Scientist converts to islam
Anatomy : Scientist converted to islam after reading Quran.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dK00xTkMGO0
Modern day miracles

 

[islamirama]

Sahi Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 850
__________________
This dunya is like a shadow. If you try to catch it, you will never be able to do so. If you turn your back towards it, it has no choice but to follow you. Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah


I don't have time to chase shadows or run from them. I need to forget those things which are behind and press forward into the kingdom of God and the high calling of God! To know God and make Him known.

Perhaps you should ask what my signature means before you go on about the kingdom of God. and blah blah

 

[Woodrow]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

How can your Jesus set us free?:?

He is the Same Isa(as) that you love. Your love for him can set you free of the bonds of misdirecting your worship of Allah(as) Follow Isa(as) Truly love him and accept the message he wanted you to have and worship the One God(swt)

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

He is the Same Isa(as) that you love. Your love for him can set you free of the bonds of misdirecting your worship of Allah(as) Follow Isa(as) Truly love him and accept the message he wanted you to have and worship the One God(swt)

This post was well put. Christians see Jesus' (pbuh) supposed death on the cross and his resurrection as means to set them free from the bondage of sin. I agree with your point of accepting the truth of Jesus' message and being set "free of the bonds of misdirecting your worship of Allah."

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We believe on the Day of Judgement that Jesus (pbuh) will disassociate himself from Christians and their worship of him.

 

[Redeemed]

Bible is not longer what it was before. it has been changed numerous times thru out history. Men keep changing it to suit their needs. King Henry got the new version out so he could divorce his wife and get a new one. There's too many fallacies and contradictions. When is a book no longer that of the author? at what point do you take and add so much to it that it no longer conveys the message the original author wrote? Most recently in the news, Germany is coming out with a new bible. This bible will be in simple english so everyone can understand it (ppl seem to be getting dumber), and this new version will take out anything that it anti-gay and anti-jewish in there. So tell me again what part of the orginal message is left in there?

The fact that something has been unchanged itself proofs how authentic and reliable the material is in that book. If you can't even verify something is the authentic source what else can you go on? We already know as it is confirmed even by non-Muslims that Quran has been unchanged and is today as it was 1400yrs ago.

So the question left than is, what proof is there that this is the book from God? since it's not changed, then it means we are looking at the original stuff of the author. And for the proof, you would have to read the book and see for yourself. See what is written in the book and compare that to the knowledge humans had at that time in history. And then ask if it was possible for humans to know that, much less an illiterate man preaching this book?

So read the book yourself and see what is said in there and see for yourself. perhaps you can look at this site www.islam-guide.com and tell me how did Quran knew all this with limited human knowledge over 1400yrs ago?

Lastly, check these videos out.

european Scientist converts to islam
Anatomy : Scientist converted to islam after reading Quran.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dK00xTkMGO0
Modern day miracles

How can you prve that what Jesus said in the Bible isn't true?