Why do muslims use the bible if they don't 'believe' in it?

[Woodrow]

How can you prve that what Jesus said in the Bible isn't true?

It is impossible to prove anything he said is not true. A negative can not be proven. It is the responsibility of the person making the statement to prove it is true.



I could say that in the bible in Algothira chapter three verse seventy six that it specificaly states that the only way to get to Poughkeepsie NY is by swallowing a whole caramel apple without chewing.

You can not prove that statement is false.

 

[Redeemed]

It is impossible to prove anything he said is not true. A negative can not be proven. It is the responsibility of the person making the statement to prove it is true.



I could say that in the bible in Algothira chapter three verse seventy six that it specificaly states that the only way to get to Poughkeepsie NY is by swallowing a whole caramel apple without chewing.

You can not prove that statement is false.

My testimony is what proves that Jesus is the Lord of my life who leads me to the Father, When I accepted Him as the Lord of my life God's spirit bore witness with mine that I was saved and blessed. Those who want a sign of prove that Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will get a sign of prove soon enough. For those who do not believe in the Son of God, it is written: "This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; (to prove) and there shall be no sign given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. For Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation." Besides, you can prove that swallowing a apple without chewing it will not get you to NY. There are large animals that can swallow it whole, or their throats are big enough to get a large animal to force swallow. That is, by the way, as ridiculous an argument as your claim that Christians copied Greek Mythology. :enough!:

 

[MustafaMc]

My testimony is what proves that Jesus is the Lord of my life who leads me to the Father, When I accepted Him as the Lord of my life God's spirit bore witness with mine that I was saved and blessed.

Your post proves nothing more than to show that you and Christians worship Jesus (pbuh) instead of the One God. May Allah guide you to the Truth and lead you out of the darkness.

 

[Woodrow]

My testimony is what proves that Jesus is the Lord of my life who leads me to the Father, When I accepted Him as the Lord of my life God's spirit bore witness with mine that I was saved and blessed. Those who want a sign of prove that Jesus is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will get a sign of prove soon enough. For those who do not believe in the Son of God, it is written: "This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; (to prove) and there shall be no sign given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet. For Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation." Besides, you can prove that swallowing a apple without chewing it will not get you to NY. There are large animals that can swallow it whole, or their throats are big enough to get a large animal to force swallow. That is, by the way, as ridiculous an argument as your claim that Christians copied Greek Mythology. :enough!:

actually there is no way you can prove that swallowing an apple without chewing it will not get you to Poughkeepsie.

true i can not prove that it will, but nobody can prove it can not.

the argument is to simply show that nobody can disprove another person's statements. No matter how ridiculous they are. That is why the burden of proof is to show that a statement is true. Not for somebody else to prove it false.

Just because you swallow an apple and do not get to Poughkeepsie, does not prove the statement false. there could have been extenuating circumstances that stopped it from getting you to Poughkeepsie. Maybe a yellow Mercedes interfered with the transportation waves.

I can understand that you would not accept what I present as proof that Christianity was corrupted by influences from paganism. There is plenty of documentation that Christianity was exposed to many of the pagan beliefs and there were concessions made to make Christianity more palatable. The Crucifixion/resurrection Son of God theme was very common throughout the pagan religions of the area and the times.

But by the same token I have not seen any evidence presented to show that Isa(as) is the Son of God(swt) and that He was sacrificed because God(swt) did not have the power to forgive our sins.

 

[Redeemed]

Your post proves nothing more than to show that you and Christians worship Jesus (pbuh) instead of the One God. May Allah guide you to the Truth and lead you out of the darkness.

What we do to each other we do to Christ, and if we honor Jesus the same as the Father, we honor God. Jesus said, if you hear me you hear Him, but if you despise me you despise Him, and he that despises Him despises the One who sent Jesus!!+o(

 

[Woodrow]

What we do to each other we do to Christ, and if we honor Jesus the same as the Father, we honor God. Jesus said, if you hear me you hear Him, but if you despise me you despise Him, and he that despises Him despises the One who sent Jesus!!+o(

there is not a Muslim alive who despises Jesus(as) we love him deeply.

we can even agree that Allah(swt) sent Him to spread the Injil. But, those who came not long after Jesus began teaching something that was at best only a small part of the Injil and the remainder was to serve purposes other than God(swt)

there is no evidence to show any verification that Jesus ever said " if you hear me you hear Him, but if you despise me you despise Him, and he that despises Him despises the One who sent Jesus!!"

In order to be able to use the NT as proof for anything Validation has to be shown that the NT is true and accurate. I have yet to see one unbiased bit of evidence that would even show the possibility of it being true.

 

[Kashnowe]

I could say that in the bible in Algothira chapter three verse seventy six that it specificaly states that the only way to get to Poughkeepsie NY is by swallowing a whole caramel apple without chewing.

You can not prove that statement is false.
__________________

i think i can prove that statement false.

i can get in a car and drive to poughkeepsie. so swallowing a whole apple is proven to not be the only way to get there.

actually there is no way you can prove that swallowing an apple without chewing it will not get you to Poughkeepsie.

true i can not prove that it will, but nobody can prove it can not.

again the original statement says the only way. and i surely can think of thousands of ways to get there. therefore i can swallow the apple and when nothing happens then you are completely and utterly wrong.

the argument is to simply show that nobody can disprove another person's statements. No matter how ridiculous they are. That is why the burden of proof is to show that a statement is true. Not for somebody else to prove it false.

bob: my right arm is 8 inches longer than my left (another persons statement)
cletus: no its not (someone objecting)
bob: oh yeah it is. if you think i'm wrong then prove it
cletus pulls out a measuring tape and measures each arm showing a once centimeter difference (cletus disproved bob's original statement)

 

[Woodrow]

i think i can prove that statement false.

i can get in a car and drive to poughkeepsie. so swallowing a whole apple is proven to not be the only way to get there.

Nope, because you forgot the possability that you were mislead and only believed you were in Poughkeepsie.

again the original statement says the only way. and i surely can think of thousands of ways to get there. therefore i can swallow the apple and when nothing happens then you are completely and utterly wrong.

Nope, because you actully went to poughkeepsie and entered a time warp and returned before you left so you think you did not go to Poughkeepsie

bob: my right arm is 8 inches longer than my left (another persons statement)
cletus: no its not (someone objecting)
bob: oh yeah it is. if you think i'm wrong then prove it
cletus pulls out a measuring tape and measures each arm showing a once centimeter difference (cletus disproved bob's original statement)

each arm is in a different location of the space time continuum. Measuring devices and measurements alter as you move from one location to another. They may appear identical, but they are not and we can not truly measure them because our reference for measurement has to move and as it moves it is no longer the same measurement.


Again, I can not prove any of those statements, however they can not be disproven because every possible arguement would have to be disproved, no matter how rediculous the argument is. the will be an infinite range of refutations that would need to be disproven, although nobody could probably prove any of the refutations to be true.

You can not disprove a statement because every claim of a disproof would result in a refutation that needs to be disproven.

 

[Redeemed]

Nope, because you forgot the possability that you were mislead and only believed you were in Poughkeepsie.




Nope, because you actully went to poughkeepsie and entered a time warp and returned before you left so you think you did not go to Poughkeepsie





each arm is in a different location of the space time continuum. Measuring devices and measurements alter as you move from one location to another. They may appear identical, but they are not and we can not truly measure them because our reference for measurement has to move and as it moves it is no longer the same measurement.


Again, I can not prove any of those statements, however they can not be disproven because every possible arguement would have to be disproved, no matter how rediculous the argument is. the will be an infinite range of refutations that would need to be disproven, although nobody could probably prove any of the refutations to be true.

You can not disprove a statement because every claim of a disproof would result in a refutation that needs to be disproven.

This gets us nowhere. Its like asking the question: When a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, does it make noise?

 

[Woodrow]

Point being those are the type questions Christians ask and challange them to be disproven. They can not be disproven. It is essential that the presenter of a statement give irrefutable proof that the statement is true if they expect the statment to be believed. Because it can not be proven false, is not proof it is true.

So going back on topic, where is unbiased proof that Jesus(as) said any of the things he is alleged to have said? the only proof is the Bible itself, and so far I have not seen any valid proof that the Bible is true.

 

[Keltoi]

Point being those are the type questions Christians ask and challange them to be disproven. They can not be disproven. It is essential that the presenter of a statement give irrefutable proof that the statement is true if they expect the statment to be believed. Because it can not be proven false, is not proof it is true.

So going back on topic, where is unbiased proof that Jesus(as) said any of the things he is alleged to have said? the only proof is the Bible itself, and so far I have not seen any valid proof that the Bible is true.

What is your evidence that the Qu'ran is true? I predict you will say because of what it contains. You believe it to be the truth. Can you prove to me that the Qu'ran is true?

 

[Muslim Knight]

What is your evidence that the Qu'ran is true? I predict you will say because of what it contains. You believe it to be the truth. Can you prove to me that the Qu'ran is true?

"The Romans have been defeated. In the nearer land (Syria, Iraq, Jordan, and Palestine), and they, after their defeat, will be victorious. Within three to nine years. The decision of the matter, before and after (these events) is only with Allah, (before the defeat of Romans by the Persians, and after, i.e. the defeat of the Persians by the Romans). And on that Day, the believers (i.e. Muslims) will rejoice (at the victory given by Allah to the Romans against the Persians).." (Al-Quran, Surah Ar-Rum, 30:2-4)

It was a fulfilled prophecy. According to Abdullah Yusuf Ali, during the revelation of these verses, the Prophet and the earliest Muslims were facing oppression in Makkah for the first 10 years since the birth of Islam. The verses prophesied that the Romans, first defeated by the Persians, will return later and rout their long time enemy.

Eight years later, as mentioned in the Suraah, the Muslim army consisting of 313 fighters defeated 1000-strong Mushriks from Makkah in Battle of Badr, coinciding the same time the Romans under Emperor Heraclius defeated the Persians under Kisra (Chosroes, Emperor of Persia). Fulfilling the prophecy, how can the Quran not be true, then?


The Prophet's staunchiest and most inviterate opponent, Abu Lahab, was already condemned in the Quran (in Surah Al-Masad) to be a resident of Hell when he die. But this (Abu Lahab's death) did not occur until 10 years later, in the aftermath of Badr. During that time he could have easily ruined Islam for one minute by going up to the Prophet and saying, "Muhammad, I repent and embrace Islam. Does your Quran forgives me?" The verses were already revealed and written down that he would die the most inviterate unbeliever! But he did not do that (embrace Islam), and to his death bed he remained the enemy of Islam. Allah says that Abu Lahab will die an unbeliever and the prophecy is fulfilled regardless.

Again, how can the Quran not be true then?

 

[Hemoo]

besides the Quran have been transmited (orally and written) generation by generation from the time of the prophet (P.B.U.H) till now.

and there are chains of recitors of the Quran from the time of the prophet till our time now.

there are some current recitors and they give an IJAZA (like a authorization or licence) to their students that makes these students follow up with the chain of recitors. there is one of those recitors i know about, he is in alexandria - Egypt, his name is Muhammad Abd Al-hamid Abd Ullah.

so the Quran has been transmitted by big number of Muslims whom did not have the chance to meet with each others and decide to lie about it. this is named TWATUR.

 

[syilla]

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13658-prove-quran-not-word-god.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13998-prove-quran-word-god.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-sources/22315-quran-allah-swt.html

http://www.theinimitablequran.com/HomePage.html posted by sis kitten (thank you )

The Qur'an challenges humanity to attempt to match the reality of the Qur'anic text, the smallest chapter (surah) to be exact. In chapter 2 verse 23 the Qur'an states:

"And if you are in doubt about which We have revealed to Our Servant then bring one chapter like it"

In order to understand this challenge one must first understand the reality of the Qur'an. With regards to its language there are many features which render the Qur'an matchless, unique and miraculous. The main arguments with regards to its linguistic and literary superiority will be briefly explained below.

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/27012-who-wrote-quran.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/27140-preservation-quran.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic-multimedia/38143-miraculous-nature-quran-yasir-qadhi.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/35135-bible-quran-science.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/22518-arabic-quran.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/32295-amazing-quran-prophecy-romans.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...orical-scientific-accuracy-amazing-quran.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/exchange-links/38857-quran-miracles-encyclopedia.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/exchange-links/33296-miracles-quran.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/31997-holy-quran-miracle-miracles.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/37156-what-quran.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/islamic...here-mentioned-quran-over-1400-years-ago.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/30784-100-questions-about-al-quran.html#post531399

http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/30222-you-ask-quran-answers.html

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/29620-errors-quran.html

i want to add more...but is already 5.09pm and i haven't pray asr yet...and after this i'm going back...so InshaAllah maybe next time...or maybe somebody else can add some more.

 

[MustafaMc]

Point being those are the type questions Christians ask and challange them to be disproven. They can not be disproven. It is essential that the presenter of a statement give irrefutable proof that the statement is true if they expect the statment to be believed. Because it can not be proven false, is not proof it is true.

So going back on topic, where is unbiased proof that Jesus(as) said any of the things he is alleged to have said? the only proof is the Bible itself, and so far I have not seen any valid proof that the Bible is true.

This is a very good point. If one were to approach the Bible without prior bias that it is the Word of God, how could he possibly come to believe that it is Divine?

If the NT of the Bible was comprised of the inerrant words spoken by Jesus (pbuh), Christians would have an argument to present. There are only a handful of quotes even attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospels, but as far as I know no two of the Gospels quote Jesus (pbuh) exactly the same in identical situations - prime example is differences in "the Lord's Prayer".

Then we get into the whole situation of Saul "The Persecutor" receiving a "revelation" after Jesus' accension and becoming Paul "The Evangelist"...

 

[MustafaMc]

What is your evidence that the Qu'ran is true? I predict you will say because of what it contains. You believe it to be the truth. Can you prove to me that the Qu'ran is true?

I would have to say, "Probably not." However, Muslims accept the Quran as the Word of God because they accept Muhammad (pbuh) as the final Prophet of God. There is no question that the Quran is the unchanged, unadulterated, inerrant words spoken by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) over 1,400 years ago that he claimed were revealed to him through the Angel Jibrael (Gabriel). We accept this as true. The Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years and each portion was immediately written down and memorized ver batim. We believe that every word of the Quran is a direct quote of the Message revealed through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

We also have the hadith that were recorded later as transmitted through the companions of Prophet Muhammad. The hadith bears some semblance to the Gospels and the Book of Acts in the NT. However, there is a distinct difference between the Quran and hadith and for that matter between the Quran and the Bible.

 

[Keltoi]

I would have to say, "Probably not." However, Muslims accept the Quran as the Word of God because they accept Muhammad (pbuh) as the final Prophet of God. There is no question that the Quran is the unchanged, unadulterated, inerrant words spoken by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) over 1,400 years ago that he claimed were revealed to him through the Angel Jibrael (Gabriel). We accept this as true. The Quran was revealed over a period of 23 years and each portion was immediately written down and memorized ver batim. We believe that every word of the Quran is a direct quote of the Message revealed through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

We also have the hadith that were recorded later as transmitted through the companions of Prophet Muhammad. The hadith bears some semblance to the Gospels and the Book of Acts in the NT. However, there is a distinct difference between the Quran and hadith and for that matter between the Quran and the Bible.

Yes, to your line of reasoning all you have stated makes the Q'uran the truth. Yet you can't "prove" it. That is my only point. Woodrow brought up the issue that we as Christians must "prove" the Bible to be corrrect. I as a Christian can ask Muslims to do the same thing. Neither of us are going to be convinced by the "proof" of the other. So in my opinion that is a failed exercise and not particularly constructive.

 

[islamirama]

Yes, to your line of reasoning all you have stated makes the Q'uran the truth. Yet you can't "prove" it. That is my only point. Woodrow brought up the issue that we as Christians must "prove" the Bible to be corrrect. I as a Christian can ask Muslims to do the same thing. Neither of us are going to be convinced by the "proof" of the other. So in my opinion that is a failed exercise and not particularly constructive.

All the converts from christianity to Islam would disagree with you. You want proof of Quran and bible? go to www.beconvinced.com

 

[MustafaMc]

Yes, to your line of reasoning all you have stated makes the Q'uran the truth. Yet you can't "prove" it. That is my only point. Woodrow brought up the issue that we as Christians must "prove" the Bible to be corrrect. I as a Christian can ask Muslims to do the same thing. Neither of us are going to be convinced by the "proof" of the other. So in my opinion that is a failed exercise and not particularly constructive.

Yes, proving a belief is a difficult thing to do. Can you reply with an explanation for why you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

 

[Keltoi]

Yes, proving a belief is a difficult thing to do. Can you reply with an explanation for why you believe the Bible is the Word of God?

Personally, it took me a long time to find my faith. I considered myself an athiest at one point. However, being an athiest left me feeling spiritually unfulfilled, which means I wasn't really an athiest. After exploring Christianity all over again I found my faith and what I feel in my heart and soul is the Truth and the path to salvation. Probably one of those events that isn't easily put into words.