Does the Bible need a defense?

[Umar001]

The things of God and our faith have nothing to do with feelings or logic; it is my faith that is the substance of the things I hope for and the evidence of the things not seen as it is written.

You again seem to be confused, I do not say that you need logic in faith, but you need logic or reason to know where to place your faith.

For example, you see a time table for the bus, you want to get the Bus 32, but the time table says 35, are you going to just have faith in that time table , no, you decide to logically put your faith in the time table entitled Bus 32!

Again I say to you it has nothing to do with feelings or logic. Feelings, logic and good intentions pave the way to hell.

lol, no problem, what your saying is that you dont have to think of which religion to choose, just choose any for any reason, no logic or thinking behind it.

I agree with you here.

Butthat's all you go on, feelings, I 'believethis or I believe that'!

Not when I am covered by the blood of the Lamb.

But if you turn away then from the sacrafise then he could? Right?

Just because you don't know, doesn't mean I can't! Rhat is your limitation not mine. I have the faith to back up my statements or I wouldn't say them. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin!

You know what, that's ok, since you dont have no discussion to bear, all you have is 'I believe this you believe it or your such and such' preaching and you have no basic reasoning then there's no point of you being here unless to preach is there.

Have you not heard and haven't I told you from the begining, I go by faith not feelings. The just shall live by faith!!!


Your faith is based on feelings 'I believe this' and so forth, no other reason.

We have nothing mandatory put on us. We are free to love and serve God. Our God doesn't want us to be compliant automatons. His youke is easy and His burden is light.

This is the most illogical statement ever, can a person who is not saved by the blood of Jesus go heaven? No, so then it is mandatory that he believes that, and accepts Jesus as his saviour, so then YOU DO HAVE THAT MANDATORY THING ON YOU!!

It is what I choose to believe and the Bible needs no defense!

Well feel free to believe it where ever you want, but no need to come here preaching when you have no substance for discussion.

There is no thought about it; it is what I know because God said so!

Lol and how you know God said it? Because the Bible said it, and how you know the Bible is right because I just believe. And round and round we go.


You haven't heard God's justice!

Justice does not mean punishment, lol.



Anyhow, I dont think theres any point in us carrying our conversation further, I like to think that God sent us a Message and a way taht would be easy to recognise otherwise if chosing religion was based on just blind faith anyone would have the right to chose any religion.

For this reason I dont see any fruitful discussion occouring since it seems clear you feel there is no reason behind placing faith in something other than just having blind faith in the first place.

I have tried and tried to explain myself and maybe this is my problem.

All the best in life,

Eesa.

 

[Woodrow]

I understood you perfectly; I don't beleve that there are any errors in the recorded words of Jesus. I believe that the devil would want people to believe that there is, because he hates God's creation and wants them destroyed. My advocate is none other than Jesus before the Judge. I am guilty, but when Jesus comes to my defense, I will not have to give an account for all my sins; I would have already been justified. That is what Muslims are missing.:nervous:

Look carefully at what you said above.

now, listen carefully to what you said in there.

I believe that the devil would want people to believe that there is, because he hates God's creation and wants them destroyed.

In that case wouldn't a misleading of the nature of Christ(as) be the greatest tool Shaytan has ever devised and it has brought about the loss of over 2 billion people? Since to believe that Jesus(as) is God(swt) is an error, wouldn't Shaytan make people feel good, warm and fuzzy over worshiping Jesus(as)

 

[جوري]

Might I suggest Alapiana1 work on the Atheist members instead of the Muslims... I believe it would be more fruitful... seems the "devil" really got a hold of them.

peace!

 

[Redeemed]

Look carefully at what you said above.

now, listen carefully to what you said in there.



In that case wouldn't a misleading of the nature of Christ(as) be the greatest tool Shaytan has ever devised and it has brought about the loss of over 2 billion people? Since to believe that Jesus(as) is God(swt) is an error, wouldn't Shaytan make people feel good, warm and fuzzy over worshiping Jesus(as)

I understand where you are coming from. One of us is following a false religion that is an abomination to God. In light of this, what does it take to reach that lost someone? I get judge by you guys if I preach or try to teach some things about Christianity or the true flowerers of Christ. Let me be honest with you Woodrow. You have been the most gracious and patient Muslim on this forum. Maybe that was because you used to be a Christian; nevertheless, I have been able to talk to you, even when you tell me how misguided you think I am, without concern for my head being chopped off. The others have patronized me; laughed at me; mocked me; criticized me; dislike me and reject me by wanting me off this forum. I have never been offended at any of your statement and you didn't seem to be offended at any of mine. If you were, you hide it well. I haven't been offended by anything or anyone even though my character was attacked on this forum, but that doesn't mean someone can't hurt me. I haven't had any of these negative reactions that your Muslim brothers and sisters have had toward me. This speaks volumes to me. My responses and actions on this forum tells me that I have a security in God that keeps me patient and full of compassion of wanting to reach them with the truth and show that I have an understanding that they are not the enemy. This battle is spiritual. I feel like I have something that they don't have. I ask you how can I know the truth about which religion is from God? Jesus said, "It is by their fruits you shall know them. A good tree doesn't bring forth bad fruit (sorry but that is what I see) and bad tree doesn't bring good fruit. These are the words of Jesus that are not recordered in the Qur'an, at least not to my knowledge. I never heard words or any prophet speak with such power and anointing. For me to change to any religion other than being a follower of Christ would be to downgrade spiritually. I hope you can understand that I truly wish blessings on every person on this forum. I wish and pray for everyone to have eternal life in the presents of God Almighty and His angels.
Sincerely
AJ

:statisfie

 

[Redeemed]

The things of God and our faith have nothing to do with feelings or logic; it is my faith that is the substance of the things I hope for and the evidence of the things not seen as it is written.

You again seem to be confused, I do not say that you need logic in faith, but you need logic or reason to know where to place your faith.

For example, you see a time table for the bus, you want to get the Bus 32, but the time table says 35, are you going to just have faith in that time table , no, you decide to logically put your faith in the time table entitled Bus 32!

Again I say to you it has nothing to do with feelings or logic. Feelings, logic and good intentions pave the way to hell.

lol, no problem, what your saying is that you dont have to think of which religion to choose, just choose any for any reason, no logic or thinking behind it.

I agree with you here.

Butthat's all you go on, feelings, I 'believethis or I believe that'!

Not when I am covered by the blood of the Lamb.

But if you turn away then from the sacrafise then he could? Right?

Just because you don't know, doesn't mean I can't! Rhat is your limitation not mine. I have the faith to back up my statements or I wouldn't say them. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin!

You know what, that's ok, since you dont have no discussion to bear, all you have is 'I believe this you believe it or your such and such' preaching and you have no basic reasoning then there's no point of you being here unless to preach is there.

Have you not heard and haven't I told you from the begining, I go by faith not feelings. The just shall live by faith!!!


Your faith is based on feelings 'I believe this' and so forth, no other reason.

We have nothing mandatory put on us. We are free to love and serve God. Our God doesn't want us to be compliant automatons. His youke is easy and His burden is light.

This is the most illogical statement ever, can a person who is not saved by the blood of Jesus go heaven? No, so then it is mandatory that he believes that, and accepts Jesus as his saviour, so then YOU DO HAVE THAT MANDATORY THING ON YOU!!

It is what I choose to believe and the Bible needs no defense!

Well feel free to believe it where ever you want, but no need to come here preaching when you have no substance for discussion.

There is no thought about it; it is what I know because God said so!

Lol and how you know God said it? Because the Bible said it, and how you know the Bible is right because I just believe. And round and round we go.


You haven't heard God's justice!

Justice does not mean punishment, lol.



Anyhow, I dont think theres any point in us carrying our conversation further, I like to think that God sent us a Message and a way taht would be easy to recognise otherwise if chosing religion was based on just blind faith anyone would have the right to chose any religion.

For this reason I dont see any fruitful discussion occouring since it seems clear you feel there is no reason behind placing faith in something other than just having blind faith in the first place.

I have tried and tried to explain myself and maybe this is my problem.

All the best in life,

Eesa.

Your right lets not argue. This is not getting us anywhere. I do use some discernment look at my note to Woodrow>mg:

 

[Woodrow]

I have no doubt about your sincerity. Like you I too desire to see all people on the right path to gain eternal life.

I truly do believe that Christ(as) by being part of my early life, was a guiding force that lead me to Islam. By giving my life to Allah(swt) I did not forsake Isa(as) I learned what his true message was and as a Muslim I believe and feel I am on the path Christianity was meant to be on.

There is no need to be in love with the feeling of being in love. To truly love Allah(swt) removes any need for any falseness.

 

[Redeemed]

I have no doubt about your sincerity. Like you I too desire to see all people on the right path to gain eternal life.

I truly do believe that Christ(as) by being part of my early life, was a guiding force that lead me to Islam. By giving my life to Allah(swt) I did not forsake Isa(as) I learned what his true message was and as a Muslim I believe and feel I am on the path Christianity was meant to be on.

There is no need to be in love with the feeling of being in love. To truly love Allah(swt) removes any need for any falseness.

I have four questions:
1. How did Christianity lead you to Islam?
2. How did the others find it without Christianity?
3. I have studied the Bible carefully and continue to so. How come it doesn't lead me to Islam; in fact, it leads me away from it?
4. What do you mean there is no need to be in love with the feeling of being love?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Some interesting stuff in this thread (some not so). Where should I jump in? Back in the beginning which was interesting or with the stuff it has moved on to which is less so?

 

[Woodrow]

I have four questions:

1. How did Christianity lead you to Islam?

For about 25 years Christ(as) was the central most figure in my life. I "felt" His presence in all things and the gift of the "Holy Spirit" coming upon me each time I thought of him was a feeling of pure exstacy. I KNEW I was saved and Jesus(as) would never abandon me. M y love of Him showed me the error of Catholochism and how the Early church had corrupted worship by bringing in touches of idolatry, veneration of the saints etc. This started me on a 40+ year Journey to give my life to Jesus(as) and to live my life for him and through Him. that journey lead me through Buddhism, Agnosticism and several Christian denominations. The more I learned about Jesus(as) the more I learned that he was a true servent of God(swt) and that it was his desire to teach us to worship God(swt) alone. The final end of this journey was when I woke up and realized that Jesus(as) was truly teaching the Message of Islam and that his beautiful words are the message of Islam.

2. How did the others find it without Christianity?

We are all born Muslim. It is only when we stop fighting the truth that we come to understand that. Nobody converts to Islam, it is simply an awakening and accepting what you see and honestly know. Allah(swt) has given guidence to all, it is our own choice as to if we follow his guidance or throw it aside.

3. I have studied the Bible carefully and continue to so. How come it doesn't lead me to Islam; in fact, it leads me away from it?

Perhaps, because you enjoy the feeling of savation so strongly, that you fail to see that it is not salvation, but is a false security that is a down ward trap from which you can not escape without giving your life to Allah(swt) and truly submitting your life to him.

4. What do you mean there is no need to be in love with the feeling of being love?

This is similar to the concept of puppy love. Teenagers fall so much in love with the thought of being in love, that it makes a barrier to actually understanding love. Some people are in love with the thoughts of what they percieve Jesus(as) to be, that they have cut themselves off from the ability to love God(swt) alone. To love Jesus(as) for what he is not is a very effective method to keep a person from worshiping the One true God(swt)

 

[Redeemed]

For about 25 years Christ(as) was the central most figure in my life. I "felt" His presence in all things and the gift of the "Holy Spirit" coming upon me each time I thought of him was a feeling of pure exstacy. I KNEW I was saved and Jesus(as) would never abandon me. M y love of Him showed me the error of Catholochism and how the Early church had corrupted worship by bringing in touches of idolatry, veneration of the saints etc. This started me on a 40+ year Journey to give my life to Jesus(as) and to live my life for him and through Him. that journey lead me through Buddhism, Agnosticism and several Christian denominations. The more I learned about Jesus(as) the more I learned that he was a true servent of God(swt) and that it was his desire to teach us to worship God(swt) alone. The final end of this journey was when I woke up and realized that Jesus(as) was truly teaching the Message of Islam and that his beautiful words are the message of Islam.




We are all born Muslim. It is only when we stop fighting the truth that we come to understand that. Nobody converts to Islam, it is simply an awakening and accepting what you see and honestly know. Allah(swt) has given guidence to all, it is our own choice as to if we follow his guidance or throw it aside.



Perhaps, because you enjoy the feeling of savation so strongly, that you fail to see that it is not salvation, but is a false security that is a down ward trap from which you can not escape without giving your life to Allah(swt) and truly submitting your life to him.



This is similar to the concept of puppy love. Teenagers fall so much in love with the thought of being in love, that it makes a barrier to actually understanding love. Some people are in love with the thoughts of what they percieve Jesus(as) to be, that they have cut themselves off from the ability to love God(swt) alone. To love Jesus(as) for what he is not is a very effective method to keep a person from worshiping the One true God(swt)

Ever since I was a child as far back as I could remember I believed in God and knew deep in my heart He existed. I tried to establish contact with Him. I used to think that He made all the buildings in the city, and I used to tell other kids "Look how great and powerful God is He made all these buildings" I didn't know that mere men built them and the pride involved in the works of man's hands which eventually leads to his downfall. I use to pray to God I said, “God I know you’re there, and I would like to talk to you. I know you made all these buildings, and I am not so important, but could you still give me a little sign that your around? I know that you don’t have to, but I would appreciate it so much." I didn’t hear God tell me or show me anything; nevertheless, I went my way and didn’t stop believing, but when things went wrong in my life as a child I would blame God. As I grew into adulthood, I got caught into experimenting with drugs. On day I took the wrong combination and was losing my mind, and I knew it. I ran to church and asked God to heal me. I was healed instantaneously, but I never pursued God after that, but I always pondered that miracle in my heart. When I went into the military, I remember seeing a verse on a wall that really jump out to me: “If you abide in me and my words abide in you, you can ask me for anything and I will do it.” (John 15) After reading that verse, I thought wow; I started to seek him for selfish reasons. I wanted things, but as I sought Him more and more I begin to realize that seeking Him is its own reward. I had a good picture of how ungodly I was and how much evil and sin was in my life and I thought, “How unworthy I am.” I understood though the Bible that all have sinned and come short of God’s glory and that the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. I also read where it says, “If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteous and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”(Ro.10: 9-10) I invited Jesus to come into my life, and it has never been the same since. When I understood my depraved state and the need for a savior, God gave me a dream to confirm my salvation. I wrote a song and painted a picture of that dream, which is posted on my profile page. Nevertheless, I knew how weak I was and how far I had to go. I began climbing the mountainous obstacles in my life by His grace and reached the top only to discover that there were many unscaled mountains. But, God has promised me that He will finish what He started in me through the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that leads us to the truth.

 

[Umar001]

Some interesting stuff in this thread (some not so). Where should I jump in? Back in the beginning which was interesting or with the stuff it has moved on to which is less so?

The Beggining, does the Bible need a defense?

 

[Redeemed]

It is in agreement with what I have studied about Greek Mythology. I am trying to find some very short concepts about Greek and Mid Eastern Mythology. For those desiring to learn more about Greek mythology i suggest they take a course in it.


The similarities betwenn the mythological beliefs and Christianity are very hard to ignore.


the worship of Mithras and Mithraism is a study in itself. The link I gave although of dubious source did give a good synopsis of Mitraism ,

Here are some more links for further reading. It is hard to find any one link that is complete.

this first link does not show much more than the fact that Mithras was worshiped in Rome in the Year 208 and had a following.

http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/archive/mithras/text.htm

some of the earlier mideastern practices of Mithraism



Source: http://www.iranian.com/History/Sept97/Mitra/index.html


this next article does have some very good reference material to it's statements.



Source: http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm


the early Catholic Church gave a very good refutation to mirthraism. Although they claim Mithraism borrowed from Christianity.



Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htm

the point of this being that in reference to the topic where the topic starter placed a challenge, I would say the Bible does need a defense. there is evidence that it is not unique and that the teachings in it are very similar to ancient pagan beliefs.

I strongly doubt the alleged origin of todays bible and that it is not what Christianity taught.

Now it is up to the Author of the topic to ofer evidence that what is called the Bible is not a re
rewriting of pagan beliefs and a pagan version of Christianity.

You are confusing Catholicism with what is written in the Bible and perhaps Christianity. I was born and raised Catholic. Most Catholics have pagan traditions as part of their theology. The Bible, however, is like a seed, man can make a seed that looks like a natural one, smells like it, taste like it, and is the same color shape and weight even with the same anatomical structure. You plant them both. One will grow and produce fruit and bear other seeds, but the other won't be able to match that, even though it may appear to do so. In order to catch the counterfeit moneymakers the detectives study the real money not the counterfeit. When you study the real the imposter is easily spotted. The Bible is the real deal. If one doesn’t believe the report in it as it stands now, even if it could be proved true, it wouldn’t change that person’s heart. There are none so:blind:as those who won't see!

 

[Woodrow]

You are confusing Catholicism with what is written in the Bible and perhaps Christianity. I was born and raised Catholic. Most Catholics have pagan traditions as part of their theology. The Bible, however, is like a seed, man can make a seed that looks like a natural one, smells like it, taste like it, and is the same color shape and weight even with the same anatomical structure. You plant them both. One will grow and produce fruit and bear other seeds, but the other won't be able to match that, even though it may appear to do so. In order to catch the counterfeit moneymakers the detectives study the real money not the counterfeit. When you study the real the imposter is easily spotted. The Bible is the real deal. If one doesn’t believe the report in it as it stands now, even if it could be proved true, it wouldn’t change that person’s heart. There are none so:blind:as those who won't see!

Quite interesting. With that said you have just removed over one half of the world's professed Christians from Being Christian as that means Catholics and Orthodox would not be practicing what you consider to be Christianity.

you have also shed strong doubt upon the Protestent religions as they too hold basic Catholic beliefs with the exception of Papal authority.

So based on that, your concept of Christianity will be a modern belief that gained a following in 19th Century rural Southern USA.

Keep in mind the Bible as you see was made up of books selected to support the Roman Catholic Church. the various councils were all Catholic councils and designed to strengthen Catholicism.

The Bible was the seed that produced the Catholic Church. the Protestant denominations are the fruits that fell from it's branches as it grew.

the Closest the Bible can lead a person to Christianity is Catholochism.

True Christianity is the Worship of one God(swt) so the Teachings of Christ(as) if followed will lead a strong Christian to Islam. It takes a strong Christian to be able to accept Islam. A weak Christian will continue to flounder in false beliefs.

 

[poga]

I am not that knowledgeable but I am fully persuaded that although I may not be able to answer some of your points and questions that there is an adequate explanation. As Gleason says: "the aerodynamic engineer may not understand how a bumble bee can fly; yet he trusts that there must be an... explanation for its fine performance since, as a matter of fact, it does fly!" Look at it this way; to us Christians the Lord Jesus is final and supreme. If there are errors in any of His teachings, then Christianity would be a hoax. So we Christians must contradict any thing that says that the Bible is flawed in theory. Gleason also states that "a careful examination of Christ's references to the Old Testament makes it unmistakably evident that He fully accepted as factual even the most controversial statements in the Hebrew bible pertaining to history and science." Some of these in question are Jonah and the story of Noah and the Exodus.

LORD JESUS IS FINAL AND SUPREME
only god is final and supreme now you may say jesus is god some say krisna is god some say buddha is god
now we know god is our creator and he is just he is mercyful god is good and god is not biased to his creatures
now if you take jesus as god i have to ask what is the reason for him to take human form
you may say he wanted to share love with human as human being
now we must remember he is in human form but he is still god and god is just and he came to save the whole humanity not just section of humanity
and as god he knew before his crucifixion it will hapen because as god he decreed it
now i ask you if he came to save the humanity why he did not finish the job
as god he had the power to convey his message to the whole of humanity instead he die's at the hand of one group of hamans and leaves them for ever divided fighting each other for eternity
is it godly thing to do is it even human thing to do
even if a father leaves his children in similar circumstance would you call him good father if that father had the power to do anything surly he would see to it that after he passes away his children lives in peace and harmony just think about it if creator do come as human at least all human in this earth should knew about his visit about his message and we know jesus did not visit usa or other newfound lands even ancient land like china and japan what was theirs foult are they too not his children

 

[Redeemed]

Quite interesting. With that said you have just removed over one half of the world's professed Christians from Being Christian as that means Catholics and Orthodox would not be practicing what you consider to be Christianity.

you have also shed strong doubt upon the Protestent religions as they too hold basic Catholic beliefs with the exception of Papal authority.

So based on that, your concept of Christianity will be a modern belief that gained a following in 19th Century rural Southern USA.

Keep in mind the Bible as you see was made up of books selected to support the Roman Catholic Church. the various councils were all Catholic councils and designed to strengthen Catholicism.

The Bible was the seed that produced the Catholic Church. the Protestant denominations are the fruits that fell from it's branches as it grew.

the Closest the Bible can lead a person to Christianity is Catholochism.

True Christianity is the Worship of one God(swt) so the Teachings of Christ(as) if followed will lead a strong Christian to Islam. It takes a strong Christian to be able to accept Islam. A weak Christian will continue to flounder in false beliefs.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I believe there are Catholics who are God's children, but I no longer identify with Catholicism in general, because the church's traditional ways are not following major Bible doctrine. I don’t want to get into what they are, but they are numerous. The Catholic Church did start off as the true church, but they ignored the warnings of Jesus. Therefore, by there traditions they have made the laws of God to no affect, just as Islam is doing in my opinion. In other words, I see both are in error from a Scriptural perspective!
hew
BY the way, to say that it takes a strong Christian to accept Islam is like saying it takes a total crook to be honest or the other way around might be more appropriate.

 

[Woodrow]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I believe there are Catholics who are God's children, but I no longer identify with Catholicism in general, because the church's traditional ways are not following major Bible doctrine. I don’t want to get into what they are, but they are numerous. The Catholic Church did start off as the true church, but they ignored the warnings of Jesus. Therefore, by there traditions they have made the laws of God to no affect, just as Islam is doing in my opinion. In other words, I see both are in error from a Scriptural perspective!
hew
BY the way, to say that it takes a strong Christian to accept Islam is like saying it takes a total crook to be honest!

All I can do is pray that your love of Isa(as) will be strong enough that you will let it lead you to the truth.

 

[Redeemed]

LORD JESUS IS FINAL AND SUPREME
only god is final and supreme now you may say jesus is god some say krisna is god some say buddha is god
now we know god is our creator and he is just he is mercyful god is good and god is not biased to his creatures
now if you take jesus as god i have to ask what is the reason for him to take human form
you may say he wanted to share love with human as human being
now we must remember he is in human form but he is still god and god is just and he came to save the whole humanity not just section of humanity
and as god he knew before his crucifixion it will hapen because as god he decreed it
now i ask you if he came to save the humanity why he did not finish the job
as god he had the power to convey his message to the whole of humanity instead he die's at the hand of one group of hamans and leaves them for ever divided fighting each other for eternity
is it godly thing to do is it even human thing to do
even if a father leaves his children in similar circumstance would you call him good father if that father had the power to do anything surly he would see to it that after he passes away his children lives in peace and harmony just think about it if creator do come as human at least all human in this earth should knew about his visit about his message and we know jesus did not visit usa or other newfound lands even ancient land like china and japan what was theirs foult are they too not his children

I believe that God is a Spirit; in fact, the Bible says that He is and that those who worship Him must do it in spirit and in truth. I, however, have no problem believing that God can inhabit a human person or be in more that more place at a single moment in time. We do not limit what God can do. We do not look at God as if He is limited to the confines of time and space, as we know it. I have no problem believing that God's word could be made flesh, nor to I have a problem seeing God as all wise, merciful and Holy. Since He is Holy and a Spirit, I have no problem as seeing Him as the Holy Spirit and yet the same one true God. To try to understand the essence of God in terms of human dimensions only leads to horrible heresies of which Muslims think us guilty of. I look at Jesus who was the only prophet (Son of Man) to be sinless and conceived of a virgin (Son of Mary). That alone should be a sign and I hint as to the true nature of Jesus Christ. Since He did not have an earthly father, it only confirms that through the prophets and even Jesus Himself the Bible speaks absolute truth has His Father being God. It is written in the Scriptures, "He that has the Son has life; he that has not the Son, as not life, but the wrath of God abides on him." I do not want the wrath of God abiding on me. I would have to be spiritually dead to believe that He is not who He says. The Bible is the inerrant word of God to the true believers and follows of Christ there are no mistakes in it pertaining to who Jesus really is. :thumbs_up

 

[Kashnowe]

now i ask you if he came to save the humanity why he did not finish the job
as god he had the power to convey his message to the whole of humanity instead he die's at the hand of one group of hamans and leaves them for ever divided fighting each other for eternity

ok so why didn't God send a man like mohammed to every townand village in the whole world to spread islam around? this argument is silly.

now we must remember he is in human form but he is still god and god is just and he came to save the whole humanity not just section of humanity
and as god he knew before his crucifixion it will hapen because as god he decreed it

yes God is just. Amen. Jesus was sent as a savior to EVERYONE

now if you take jesus as god i have to ask what is the reason for him to take human form

do muslims ever pray to God and ask him this same question? like "dear God why do christians believe in Jesus as they do? please help me understand..."

you may say he wanted to share love with human as human being

yes you may say that. but to me thats not really the point. its much deeper than that. b/c God is love and he always has and always will share love with us. so thats not really relevant to the 'why did God send himself in human form argument'

even if a father leaves his children[...]

whoaaa Our Father did not leave us. he has always been with us and always will be. in fact Jesus dying on the cross brought us as humans closer to God. we now know exactly what to do in order to be saved and that is something to rejoice in.

creator do come as human at least all human in this earth should knew about his visit about his message and we know jesus did not visit usa or other newfound lands even ancient land like china and japan what was theirs foult are they too not his children

yes this is funny you write this because christianity has made its way t o china and japan all corners of the earth infact........ so why aren't you also asking why didnt God spread islam throughout the world in one years time so that everyone could know about it? the ignorant are going to heaven anyway. God doesn't punish those who never even heard the Truth .




chrisitians believe Jesus=God=Holy Spirit therefore...

 

[Grace Seeker]

This thread sounds more like, does Christianity represent true religion than anything about the Bible needing a defense or not.

You all let me know when you're ready to get back on topic and I'll jump in. Till then I'll surf in other threads.

 

[poga]

I believe that God is a Spirit; in fact, the Bible says that He is and that those who worship Him must do it in spirit and in truth. I, however, have no problem believing that God can inhabit a human person or be in more that more place at a single moment in time. We do not limit what God can do. We do not look at God as if He is limited to the confines of time and space, as we know it. I have no problem believing that God's word could be made flesh, nor to I have a problem seeing God as all wise, merciful and Holy. Since He is Holy and a Spirit, I have no problem as seeing Him as the Holy Spirit and yet the same one true God. To try to understand the essence of God in terms of human dimensions only leads to horrible heresies of which Muslims think us guilty of. I look at Jesus who was the only prophet (Son of Man) to be sinless and conceived of a virgin (Son of Mary). That alone should be a sign and I hint as to the true nature of Jesus Christ. Since He did not have an earthly father, it only confirms that through the prophets and even Jesus Himself the Bible speaks absolute truth has His Father being God. It is written in the Scriptures, "He that has the Son has life; he that has not the Son, as not life, but the wrath of God abides on him." I do not want the wrath of God abiding on me. I would have to be spiritually dead to believe that He is not who He says. The Bible is the inerrant word of God to the true believers and follows of Christ there are no mistakes in it pertaining to who Jesus really is. :thumbs_up

dear alapiana i urge you to go even deeper then spirit
even spirit is created by god
he is god who created time matter and space and sound
he is beyond all created things
and just think what you are implying
if he was god then when he died on cross he knew thats going to happen that makes his action premeditated
therefore he planned this feud between jews and christians what took place after his so called death
is this godly act no this is evil act and we know jesus was not evil
he was the person who cast out devil from human in to swine
and as for muhammad sallel la hu alahi wa sallim
no muslim have ever climed muhammad was god rather we all say he was slave of god
and god send him in arab but his message is for not only for humans of this planet but for whole creation