Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[Redeemed]

To the Christian the Trinity is one God. To the Muslim they are three Gods. To the Christians they are three persons that make one God. To the Muslims that is not possible. Who can explain this? Can it be explained? If we could convince people that God is three persons, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or just one (Allah) would that solve the bloody trails that have happened over the centuries through religious wars? Are we caught in a spiritual war with truth and deception? Will we learn from the past? We have one Creator who made the Christians and the Muslim persons. We are brothers in humanity. We come from the same creator who is God the Almighty. There is no one like Him. He is the Creator of heaven and earth. His creation brings Him glory. God is alive. He is not dead. He sees the thousands of years of wars over His name. Will He stop this soon? We can't stop it. We need God to do it. Why can't Christians and Muslims pray that God stop this? Don't we collectively make up the greatest of worlds religions and only one of these can be right. We know all other faiths are small and weak compared to the most powerful Creator of the worlds. We know that God is all-powerful. We know that He can intervene. What if all the Christians and Muslims agree on a day to fast and pray that God bring about a revival of truth so that all blinders will be off on this Islamic forum? Questions, questions and more questions????????

 

[Woodrow]

Somehow this thread was over looked and slipped into the back pages. Kind of an interesting suggestion. It is essentialy what all Muslims do at least 5 times a day. Daily each of us will say the Fatiha at least 5 times, usually more often.

Part of the Fatiha is the asking of guidance to be kept on the right path.


1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;

3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;

4. Master of the Day of Judgment.

5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

6. Show us the straight way,

7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.

We do feel that Allah(swt) does answer this prayer constantly and that He does give us true guidance when we stray and that He does gently nudge us in the right direction as we need to be nudged and guided.

 

[Sinbad]

wars is political not religous. The Ottoman Empire was allied with Austria and France against Russia. The next moment it was ww1, and the brittish created arab nationalism to fight the ottomans.
The ottomans brought in religion and declared jihad against the christians, this didnt work.

So the moral is, wars and conflicts are political, they just use religion.

 

[Woodrow]

47: 2. Those who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of ALLAH - HE renders their works vain.
47: 3. But as for those who believe and do righteous deeds and believe in that which has been revealed to Muhammad - and it is the truth from their Lord - HE removes from them their sins and sets right their affairs.
47: 4. That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood while those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Thus does ALLAH set forth for men their lessons by similitudes.
47: 8. O ye who believe ! if you help the cause of ALLAH, HE will help you and will make your steps firm.
47: 9. But those who disbelieve, perdition is their lot; and HE will make their works vain.
47: 10. That is because they hate what ALLAH has revealed; so HE has made their works vain.
47: 11. Have they not traveled in the earth and seen what was the end of those who were before them ? ALLAH utterly destroyed them, and for the disbelievers there will be the like thereof.
47: 12. That is because ALLAH is the Protector of those who believe, and the disbelievers have no protector.
47: 13. Verily, ALLAH will cause those who believe and do good works to enter the Gardens underneath which streams flow; While those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat even as the cattle eat, and the Fire will be their last resort.

47: 18. But as for those who follow guidance, HE adds to their guidance, and bestows on them righteousness suited to their condition.
47: 19. The disbelievers wait not but for the Hour, that it should come upon them suddenly. The Signs thereof have already come. But of what avail will their admonition be to them when it has actually come upon them.
47: 20. Know, therefore, that there is no god other than ALLAH, and ask protection for thy human frailties, and for believing men and believing women. And ALLAH knows the place where you move about and the place where you stay.

47: 22. Their attitude should have been one of obedience and of calling people to good. And when the matter was determined upon, it was good for them if they were true to ALLAH.
47: 23. Would you not then, if you are placed in authority, create disorder in the land and sever your ties of kinship ?
47: 24. It is these whom ALLAH has cursed, so that HE has made them deaf and has made their eyes blind.
47: 25. Will they not, then, ponder over the Qur'an, or, is it that there are locks on their hearts ?
47: 26. Surely, those who turn their backs after guidance has become manifest to them, Satan has seduced them and holds out false hopes to them.
47: 31. And if WE pleased, WE could show them to thee so that thou shouldst know them by their marks. And thou shalt, surely, recognize them by the tone of their speech. And ALLAH knows your deeds.
47: 32. And WE will, surely, try you, until WE make manifest those among you who strive for the cause of ALLAH and those who are steadfast. And WE will make known the true facts about you.
47: 33. Those, who disbelieve and hinder men from the way of ALLAH and oppose the Messenger after guidance has become manifest to them, shall not harm ALLAH in the least; and HE will make their works fruitless.
47: 34. O ye who believe ! obey ALLAH and obey the Messenger and make not your works vain.
47: 35. Verily, those who disbelieve and hinder people from the way of ALLAH, and then die while they are disbelievers - ALLAH certainly, will not forgive them.





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[Balthasar21]

To the Christian the Trinity is one God. To the Muslim they are three Gods. To the Christians they are three persons that make one God. To the Muslims that is not possible. Who can explain this? Can it be explained? If we could convince people that God is three persons, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or just one (Allah) would that solve the bloody trails that have happened over the centuries over religious wars? Are we caught in a spiritual war with truth and deception? Will we learn from the past? We have one Creator who made the Christians and the Muslim persons. We are brothers in humanity. We come from the same creator who is God the Almighty. There is no one like Him. He is the Creator of heaven and earth. His creation brings Him glory. God is alive. He is not dead. He sees the thousands of years of wars over His name. Will He stop this soon? We can't stop it. We need God to do it. Why can't Christians and Muslims pray that God stop this? Don't we collectively make up the greatest of worlds religions and only one of these can be right. We know all other faiths are small and weak compared to the most powerful Creator of the worlds. We know that God is all-powerful. We know that He can intervene. What if all the Christians and Muslims agree on a day to fast and pray that God bring about a revival of truth so that all blinders will be off on this Islamic forum? Questions, questions and more questions????????

Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Christ never claim to be the Creator / God , The first teaching of Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Was Yashu'a Isa . Jesus Christ the son Creator / God And the Christian Teacher Minister Etc Trun
Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus into God / Creator Himself . ( Food For Though ) .

According to Exodus 20 ; 7 , States And I Quote ; The ( Shalt ) not ( Bow Down ) thyself to them , nor serve them ; For ( I ) the Lord thy ( God ) am a ( Jealous - God ) ( Visiting ) the ( Iniquity ) of the ( Father ) upon the ( Chrildren ) unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me .

Overstanding of the above Verse . ( Why would Creator / God of the Bible ) be ( Jealous ) If There only one Creator / God ) ? Its because Creator / God of the Bible Knew their were other Eloheem / God's by sides him thats why . The Word Eloheem For God Means God's

John 10 ; 34-35 States And I Quote ; Jesus answered them , Is it not written in your ( Law ) I said Ye are
( gods ) . Verse 35 . If he called them ( gods ) unto whom the ( word ) of ( God ) came , and the ( Scriptures ) cannot ( be broken )

Psalm 82 ; 1 -7 , States And I Quote ; ( God Standeth ) in the ( Congregation ) of the ( Mighty ) he ( Judgeth ) among the ( GOD'S ) . Verse 2 . How long ( Will ) ye ( Judge Unjustly ) and ( Accept ) the persons of the ( Wicked ) Selah . Verse 3 . ( Defend ) the poor and father -less ( Do Justice ) to the afficted and needy ) . Verse 4 . Deliver the poor and needy ( Rid ) them out of the ( Hand ) of the wicked . Verse 5 . They know not . nether ( Will ) they ( Understand ) they walk on in ( Darkness ) all the ( Foundations ) of the
( Earth Are Out Of Course ) . Verse 6 . I ( Have Said ) Ye are ( Gods ) ; and all of you are ( CHIDREN ) of the
( Most High ) . Verse 7 . But ye ( Shall Die ) like ( Men ) and fall like one of the ( Princes ) .

Also Read Genesis 6 ; 1 -4 , Job 1 ; 6 , also 2 ; 1 . So according to the Christian Bible their many Eloheem / God's .

ANUNNAQI / ELOHEEM
Genesis R.T. 1;1-12 , 14 , 16 - 18 , 20 -22 , 24 -28 , 31 ; 2;2 ; 3;1, 5,6,9 ; 4;25 ; 5 ; 1 , 22; 6;2; 7;16 ; 8;1 ; 9 ;1 ; 20;3 ; 22;9 , 12 ; 27;28 ; 28;4 , 30;20 ; 35;4 , 5 ; 41 ; 39

The word '' ANUNNAQI '' means '' Those Who ANU Sent Down , From Heaven To Earth '' . They came from the skies to the planet earth which was originally called Tiamat meaning '' Maiden Of Life ''. And also referred to as Tamtu And Tiwawat , And Qi , Ki , Tiamat .. Is also called Terra , Orb , Arduwt Or Ard . When the greek got hold of the word Qi , They changed it to Ge < Greek > Where the word Geo < Greek > comes from . . The ANUNNAQI in The Bible are called ELOHEEM . They got their name ANUNNAQI When they were coming to Earth . The ANUNNAQI are a race of Supreme Beings .

The word ANUNNAQI is used within The Ancient Tablets such as The Enuma Elish , The Gilgamesh Epics , Etc . The word ELOHEEM <Aramic > means ''' These Beings '' Or '' A Group Of ELOHS '' . ELOHEEMS Are angels of El <Aramic > or messengers of EL ELOH Who is ANU . They are physical Angelic Beings , Not Spooks Or Spirits Or Ghost . They are a host of beings that do the work of EL < Aramic > While on The Planet Earth under an appointed being . Then they are called El < Aramic > Who is under AL or El <Aramic >

The word '' ELOHEEM '' Is found throughout '' The Scroll Of Genesis and is Falsely translated as '' God '' The name ELOHEEM Is used for Both Agreeable And Disagreeable Beings And Even Humans As In Exodus 7 ; 1 , When YAHUWA < Aramic > Told MOSES That He Will Make Him An ELOHEEM For The PHARAOH . The ANUNNAQI , ELOHEEM .. Came to the planet earth to mine for natural resources for the protection of their planet RIZQ , Which Is The 8th Planet In The 19th Galaxy Illyuwn , Which has Three Suns ; UTU , SHAMASH .

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

I think zakir Naik say it best.

the father son and spirit.

what image is in your mind when you speak of a benevolent father?
Maybe an old Sean Connery ..LOL

wehat image is in your mind when you speak of the good son?

Maybe any middle aged man

what image is in your mind when you say spirit?
A bulbous smog of light or something..

this is 3 different entity..

Islam is simple..ONE GOD,do not try to imagine what he look like.

that is the difference between trinity and Allah..

you say 3 in ONE
We say ONLY ONE....

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

And about the idea of muslim and chrisitan and every faith to pray for peace..


the Quran has already answered this..

there is a verse that say,IF ALLAH WILLS IT THEN ALL OF MANKIND WILL BE ONE RACE AND ONE RELIGION.

But that wont happen..for this world is a test.

 

[Keltoi]

Salaam,

I think zakir Naik say it best.

the father son and spirit.

what image is in your mind when you speak of a benevolent father?
Maybe an old Sean Connery ..LOL

wehat image is in your mind when you speak of the good son?

Maybe any middle aged man

what image is in your mind when you say spirit?
A bulbous smog of light or something..

this is 3 different entity..

Islam is simple..ONE GOD,do not try to imagine what he look like.

that is the difference between trinity and Allah..

you say 3 in ONE
We say ONLY ONE....

Actually I've thought about asking Muslims this same question. What image comes to your mind when you think of God? An old man with a beard sitting on a throne? Because to a Christian the Almighty power that is God cannot be placed into a box so as to be easily understood by the human mind. Sometimes I feel that Muslims are so obsessed with concentrating on God being One, which of course we both agree on, that they miss the point altogether. God obviously has many ways of interacting and manifesting Himself in our world and in our minds. The possibilities are obviously limitless. To answer your questions though....

What is God? That is obviously impossible to describe using the written word. Almighty Creator, Lord, the One God. As for what image comes to mind, for me personally I don't really have an image in mind....definately not Sean Connery.

What image comes to mind when speaking of the Son? Of course there are millions of paintings and images of Christ as he was imagined by artists and worshippers. Most of us know that his true physical image was never captured, so all we can do is imagine how He might have looked during His time on Earth. If you are referring to the Son in the spiritual sense, it again goes back to our image of God, which is impossible to describe or put into a box.

As for the Holy Spirit, Jesus described it as a Comforter. The translation from Greek means literally breath or air. Sometimes described as the aspect of God immanent in this world, in people, and in the church.

 

[Balthasar21]

Salaam,

And about the idea of muslim and chrisitan and every faith to pray for peace..


the Quran has already answered this..

there is a verse that say,IF ALLAH WILLS IT THEN ALL OF MANKIND WILL BE ONE RACE AND ONE RELIGION.

But that wont happen..for this world is a test.

Zukiflim < says > there is a verse that say,IF ALLAH WILLS IT THEN ALL OF MANKIND WILL BE ONE RACE AND ONE RELIGION.


Chapter and verse please .

 

[Balthasar21]

Salaam,

I think zakir Naik say it best.

the father son and spirit.

what image is in your mind when you speak of a benevolent father?
Maybe an old Sean Connery ..LOL

wehat image is in your mind when you speak of the good son?

Maybe any middle aged man

what image is in your mind when you say spirit?
A bulbous smog of light or something..

this is 3 different entity..

Islam is simple..ONE GOD,do not try to imagine what he look like.

that is the difference between trinity and Allah..

you say 3 in ONE
We say ONLY ONE....

Michelangelo's '' Creation '' , on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel painted in 1508 A.D. Of God and Adam , And they were painted Caucasian .

 

[Zulkiflim]

Actually I've thought about asking Muslims this same question. What image comes to your mind when you think of God? An old man with a beard sitting on a throne? Because to a Christian the Almighty power that is God cannot be placed into a box so as to be easily understood by the human mind. Sometimes I feel that Muslims are so obsessed with concentrating on God being One, which of course we both agree on, that they miss the point altogether. God obviously has many ways of interacting and manifesting Himself in our world and in our minds. The possibilities are obviously limitless. To answer your questions though....

What is God? That is obviously impossible to describe using the written word. Almighty Creator, Lord, the One God. As for what image comes to mind, for me personally I don't really have an image in mind....definately not Sean Connery.

What image comes to mind when speaking of the Son? Of course there are millions of paintings and images of Christ as he was imagined by artists and worshippers. Most of us know that his true physical image was never captured, so all we can do is imagine how He might have looked during His time on Earth. If you are referring to the Son in the spiritual sense, it again goes back to our image of God, which is impossible to describe or put into a box.

As for the Holy Spirit, Jesus described it as a Comforter. The translation from Greek means literally breath or air. Sometimes described as the aspect of God immanent in this world, in people, and in the church.

salaam,

when we pray we pray to allah,,,to no image no location but only pray in the eastern direction,,,

we do not make graven images,we do not make idols,we do not imagine Allah form or substance.

So that is a large difference,...

By the way,we emphasie that GOD is ONE it is not our wish but what the CREATOR has taught us..

HE IS ONE,,not two not three not multitudes.

Luckily for you you only got 3 divinity,try taoism,with thousand of god,or busshaism with thousand of boddhisatvas..divinities in all..

 

[Zulkiflim]

Zukiflim < says > there is a verse that say,IF ALLAH WILLS IT THEN ALL OF MANKIND WILL BE ONE RACE AND ONE RELIGION.


Chapter and verse please .

Salaam,

And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.

5:48

Link below
http://19.org/km/PM/5

 

[Zulkiflim]

Salaam,

Allah light

Allah says in the Qur'an what means,

*{Allah is the light of the heavens and the earth; a likeness of His light is as a niche in which is a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, [and] the glass is as it were a brightly shining star, lit from a blessed olive-tree, neither eastern nor western, the oil whereof almost gives light though fire touch it not -- light upon light -- Allah guides to His light whom He pleases, and Allah sets forth parables for men, and Allah is Cognizant of all things.}* (An-Nur 24:35)

 

[vpb]

To the Christian the Trinity is one God. To the Muslim they are three Gods.

Yes, you say it's one God, but actually if you unpack that "One God" of yours, then we have "The Father, Holy Spirit, and The Son". Which means that you say "One God" but actually that God is compressed like if you would couple of files compressed in a .zip file, which then you could call it one file, but in reality that .zip one file hold three files. so please don't claim that you believe in one God.

To the Christians they are three persons that make one God. To the Muslims that is not possible. Who can explain this? Can it be explained?

the concept of trinity not that is not possible for muslims but also for christians. generations and generations have failed to explain the concept of Trinity, and whoever says that I can explain the concept of trinity has just lied to him/her self bc you can't explain it, you basically just believe it.

If we could convince people that God is three persons, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost or just one (Allah) would that solve the bloody trails that have happened over the centuries through religious wars?

dude , you believe that Jesus is the son of God, but we don't. So this is the point where our beliefs diverse.

the Surah Al-Ikhlas explain very clearly about Allah swt:

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.

We have one Creator who made the Christians and the Muslim persons.

yes I agree, but the perception of that Creator is different to you and to us.

We are brothers in humanity. We come from the same creator who is God the Almighty. There is no one like Him.

You just contradicted your self with the statement that "There is no one like him", so if God has a son, basically God holds human values (humans have sons and daughters), also by your belief God or Son of God, he ate , drank, sleept, prayed to God?? does this match with what human does. So if we say that there no one like God, than God cannot have a son, or sleep or drink , or be tempted by sins etc etc.

He is the Creator of heaven and earth. His creation brings Him glory. God is alive. He is not dead.

Surah Al Baqara, 2:255:
Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.

What if all the Christians and Muslims agree on a day to fast and pray that God bring about a revival of truth so that all blinders will be off on this Islamic forum? Questions, questions and more questions????????

Surah Al-Baqara 2:109

Many of the followers of the Book (Christians and Jews) wish that they could turn you back into unbelievers after your faith, out of envy from themselves, (even) after the truth has become manifest to them; but pardon and forgive, so that Allah should bring about His command; surely Allah has power over all things.

 

[Keltoi]

Yes, you say it's one God, but actually if you unpack that "One God" of yours, then we have "The Father, Holy Spirit, and The Son". Which means that you say "One God" but actually that God is compressed like if you would couple of files compressed in a .zip file, which then you could call it one file, but in reality that .zip one file hold three files. so please don't claim that you believe in one God.

"Please don't claim that you believe in one God"....sorry, even saying please isn't going to get me to suddenly "see the light" and realize I pray to three Gods, which is false. So please, don't tell me what I believe.

the concept of trinity not that is not possible for muslims but also for christians. generations and generations have failed to explain the concept of Trinity, and whoever says that I can explain the concept of trinity has just lied to him/her self bc you can't explain it, you basically just believe it.

Perhaps "generations and generations" have failed to explain it to your satisfaction, but Christians understand the concept as well as any human being could understand it. Saying we understand it totally would be like saying we understand God totally, which of course is impossible. We understand that God manifests His will in different ways and through different means. We also understand that God and Christ Jesus mention these different ways in which God's will becomes manifest. These different ways are very important.

Uhhgg...I never can get the quote thing to work properly.

 

[vpb]

"Please don't claim that you believe in one God"....sorry, even saying please isn't going to get me to suddenly "see the light" and realize I pray to three Gods, which is false. So please, don't tell me what I believe.

i'm not trying to tell you what you believe, believe what you want, but saying that you believe in one God, and the other hand saying "The Father...." is a contradiction that can be seen from the moon.

Perhaps "generations and generations" have failed to explain it to your satisfaction, but Christians understand the concept as well as any human being could understand it. Saying we understand it totally would be like saying we understand God totally, which of course is impossible. We understand that God manifests His will in different ways and through different means. We also understand that God and Christ Jesus mention these different ways in which God's will becomes manifest. These different ways are very important.

oh come onnnn, Christians understand the concept of trinity???? loll, they pretend to understand but they don't. I'm sorry to be categorical, but that's what it is. the most famous answer that they come up when they explain the trinity is "the egg" and these sort of answers. Trinity is a complex concept has not yet been answer wether you like the reality or not.

anyways i'm not gonna argue anymore cuz i don't want to change the direction of the thread. so i'll finish with this.

 

[MustafaMc]

Zukiflim < says > there is a verse that say,IF ALLAH WILLS IT THEN ALL OF MANKIND WILL BE ONE RACE AND ONE RELIGION.


Chapter and verse please .

In addition to ones already quoted.

Quran 11:118 If your Rabb had so willed, He would have certainly made mankind one single nation but that is not what He wants, so they will continue to differ

16:93 If Allah wanted, He could have made you all one nation, but He lets go astray whom He wants and guides whom He pleases: but most certainly you will be questioned about all your actions.

 

[Keltoi]

i'm not trying to tell you what you believe, believe what you want, but saying that you believe in one God, and the other hand saying "The Father...." is a contradiction that can be seen from the moon.



oh come onnnn, Christians understand the concept of trinity???? loll, they pretend to understand but they don't. I'm sorry to be categorical, but that's what it is. the most famous answer that they come up when they explain the trinity is "the egg" and these sort of answers. Trinity is a complex concept has not yet been answer wether you like the reality or not.

anyways i'm not gonna argue anymore cuz i don't want to change the direction of the thread. so i'll finish with this.

If the most "famous" answer for the understanding of the Trinity is the "egg" analogy, then you haven't been looking.

 

[MustafaMc]

Actually I've thought about asking Muslims this same question. What image comes to your mind when you think of God? An old man with a beard sitting on a throne? Because to a Christian the Almighty power that is God cannot be placed into a box so as to be easily understood by the human mind.

I for one, have absolutely no mental image of Allah. I would also agree with the last sentence I quoted here.

 

[Zulkiflim]

If the most "famous" answer for the understanding of the Trinity is the "egg" analogy, then you haven't been looking.

Salaam,

Are you referrin to the water,ice and steam??

All are H20 but form is still different.
wet ,cold/hard and intangible..

So it is the smae you get 3 different forms,3 different image..