Arab Governments sending weapons/equipment to Lebanon

KAding said:
Started what? Conquering Muslim lands? :exhausted
Click to expand...


Yes...this guy started it..Ferdinand the V. The cheeky fellow had the nerve to take back Castilla from the Moors.


T011534A.jsm
 
We muslims leave it to Allah swt, what is beyond our control, we pray and hope for the best from Allah swt, even in a bad situation.

May Allah swt guide us all.Ameen.
 
wilberhum said:
It is just logical conclusion to what you and NobleMuslimUK keep saying.
Click to expand...
Logically that is a strawman and non sequitur. In other words, you are making a logical fallacy.
Non sequitur is Latin for "it does not follow." In formal logic, an argument is a non sequitur if the conclusion does not follow from the premise. In a non sequitur, the conclusion can be either true or false, but the argument is a fallacy because the conclusion does not follow from the premise. All formal fallacies are specific types of non sequitur. The term has special applicability in law, having a formal legal definition.

Here are two types of non sequitur of traditional noteworthiness:

1) Any argument that takes the following form is a non sequitur:

If A is true, then B is true.
B is stated to be true.
Therefore, A must be true.
Even if the premises and conclusion are all true, the conclusion is not a necessary consequence of the premises. This sort of non sequitur is also called affirming the consequent.

An example of affirming the consequent would be:

If I am a human (A) then I am a mammal. (B)
I am a mammal. (B)
Therefore, I am a human. (A)
"I" could be another type of mammal without being a human. While the conclusion may be true, it does not follow from the premises. This argument is still a fallacy even if the conclusion is true. It is a non sequitur (note that it is the exact same argument form as in example 1 - the form is always a non sequitur).

2) Another common non sequitur is this:

If A then B. (e.g., If I am in Tokyo, I am in Japan.)
Not A. (e.g., I am not in Tokyo.)
Therefore, not B. (e.g., Therefore, I am not in Japan.)
The speaker could be anywhere else in Japan. This sort of non sequitur is called denying the antecedent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)
Click to expand...
 
wilberhum said:
I don't think they left the bank robbing to Allah.
Click to expand...

you and your stupid bank robbing, how you keep repeating it as if its the end of the world. last i checked your country invaded an enitre nation based on a lie, based on made up facts and propaganda, and you want to keep going on about a bank robbery which happens normally in the usa? so instead of concerning yourself so much and repeating yourself so many times on bank robbery it would be better if you gave the same repetition and attention to your goverments illegal war against iraq.

now dont tell me heyyyyyyyy its the thread topic, because you dont have to repeat yourself 10 times in one thread about the same issue, people understood you the first time, you go on about it like ohhhhhh myyyyyyyyyy a bank robbery!!!!!!!!! its the end!!!!!!!!!!! and secondly, the bank robbery has nothing to do with the topic, i dont care if fatah Islam went and stole chickens, the thread topic is related to the arab goverments hypocrisy for sending weapons and aid when they did nothing for lebanon while israel bombed it non stop, nor do they aid the palestinians in the same way, hence the thread was made and as the title shows to expose the arab goverments hypocrisy.
 
:sl:/Peace To All

Bush's New Middle East

By Mike Whitney
05/29/07
InformationClearingHouse

" ... under the sky
without hope
the self inside me dies ...

I will always be from nowhere
Without a face, without a history
from nowhere."

"Traveler without Luggage" by Abdul-Wahab Al-Bayyati
Click to expand...

It's hard to know what Bush hopes to accomplish by backing the bloody siege of the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp, but one thing is certain; things are never as they seem.

In an interview on Democracy Now last week, investigative reporter Seymour Hersh stated that, Fatah al-Islam---the group of Sunni extremists inside the camp--were getting material support from the Saudis, the Bush administration and members of the Lebanese political establishment.

So, The Bush Administration Is Supporting Terrorism?

That's right. Sy Hersh put it like this:

"The idea was to provide them (Fatah al-Islam) with some arms and some money and some basic equipment so -- these are small units, a couple hundred people. There were three or four around the country given the same help covertly, the goal being they would be potential enemies of Hezbollah in case of warfare".
Click to expand...

But if Fatah-al-Islam is an American-Saudi creation than why is the Bush administration shipping weapons to Lebanon to help kill them?

Is this is another example of "blowback"---the unintended consequences of a misguided foreign policy?

Yes and no.

While it is true that the US uses terrorist organizations to further its policy objectives (The US supported Bin Laden in Afghanistan, the KLA in Kosovo, the Mujahedin Klaq in Iran) the situation in Lebanon is a bit more complex.

Fatah al-Islam is comprised of Sunni radicals who were recruited from the other Gulf States to counterbalance Hezbollah. Now, it appears, they have outlived their usefulness and the Lebanese warlords have decided to eliminate them.

According to independent journalist Franklin Lamb, who is reporting from the battered Bedawi refugee camp, the charges against the group are purely fabricated.

"There was no bank robbery" and "no heads were cut off".

The allegations in the western press were merely a pretext for restarting the fighting.

The siege of Nahr al-Bared is probably just Phase 2 of Israel's 34 Day War--- a conflict in which "Israel's air force, armed with U.S.-manufactured and -fueled F-16s, went on a rampage with more than 14 combat missions every single hour of the war, destroying, among other things, 73 bridges, 400 miles of roads, 25 gas stations, 900 commercial structures, two hospitals, 350 schools and 15,000 Lebanese homes." (Dahr Jamail)
Click to expand...

The US-Israeli goals in Lebanon have never really changed. Israel wants a reliable client to its North and access to Lebanon's water supplies. They also want to crush their main enemy, Hezbollah, the Shiite resistance organization which has routed the IDF twice in the last 15 years.

Bush, on the other hand, is trying to destabilize the entire region using the madcap neocon strategy of "creative destruction".

He thinks that if he can erase the traditional borders and create a fragmented Middle East, the transnational corporations will be able to control the region's vast resources.

Washington's allies in Beirut like the idea, too. Walid Jumblat, Sa'ad Hariri and Prime Minister Fuad Siniora"all believe that the outbreak of violence will only strengthen them politically.

Siniora "The Lionhearted"

It's interesting to watch how eager Siniora is to bomb of a defenseless refugee camp, when just months ago he was too afraid to deploy troops to the south of Lebanon to fight the invading Israeli army. Why is that?

Siniora showed his true colors during the 34 Day War. At one point he was photographed sipping tea with Condi Rice while Lebanese civilians in the south were being pelted with American-made bombs dropped from American-made F-16s.

The Prime Minister has proved that he is every bit as worthy of Washington's praise as Karzai in Afghanistan or Abbas in Palestine.

But there's another reason for the present siege of Nahr al-Bared besides Siniora's newfound courage, that is, NATO wants to clear the area for another military airbase.
According to the Lebanese newspaper Al-Diyar:

"NATO has decided to join the Lebanese territories to North-African & African coast military region, to establish Military airbases". ... .

"American-German-Turkish military delegation toured and surveyed Akkar region, reported to the NATO headquarter in Brussels, mentioning that the military bases will contribute to the development and the economic recovery in the region, advising the government to focus on the financial aspect and positive reflection on the population of the region, giving the bases a name "Lebanese Army and Security training centre".
Click to expand...

So, it looks like northern Lebanon has been chosen as the site for further NATO expansion in the Middle East.

That means that NATO-planners must have agreed on a credible justification for evacuating the people who presently occupy the land. That's where Fatah al Islam comes in.

The hobgoblin of terrorism always provides the perfect excuse for state sanctioned violence---in this case the group is being used to conceal a massive ethnic cleansing operation.

Iraqi poet and blogger Layla Anwar made these comments about the situation in Iraq, but they can be easily applied to Nahr al-Bared as well.

She says:

"If you want to reconstruct a country, you need to eliminate its people and start anew right?

Like restoring the virginity to the land so you can build better and stronger fortresses. A brand new Iraq with a brand new population. A total Babel makeover.

You know, like the ones you see on these American TV reality shows. Revamped, relooked, redone...beyond recognition".

(Layla Anwar, "Aliens in Babel" An Arab Woman's Blues)
Click to expand...

Anwar is right.

The siege of Nahr al-Bared is an attempt "to eliminate people and start anew" by pushing 30 or 40 thousand Palestinians out of their homes and onto the streets so their foreign overlords can "build a stronger fortress".

It is a tragedy and the Bush administration has only added to the crime by providing arms and equipment to the Lebanese Army.

According to the U.K. Guardian:

"The United States has sent planeloads of arms and ammunition for the Lebanese army, as tension grows around the besieged refugee camp in the north of the country. The weapons were welcomed by members of the Lebanese government, who said they wanted the army equipped "to the teeth" in the face of threats of renewed violence."
The siege of Nahr al-Bared follows a familiar pattern that we have seen in Gaza, Falluja, Tel Afar and Samarra.
Click to expand...

The camp has been surrounded and cut off, snipers have been positioned on the rooftops, civilian areas have been shelled with impunity, and the bodies of the dead have been left to rot on the streets.

Sound Familiar?

It should.

These are the basic contours of the Bush Doctrine as it is applied to the (remaining) independent states in the Middle East.

The options for the victims are always the same: One can either pack up and find shelter in another filthy refugee-hovel or stay home and die. There's no other choice.
It's easy to see why the number of refugees in the region has swollen to more than 4 million people in just a few years.

Most of them are the victims of US aggression in Iraq, but the trend is now spreading to Lebanon.

Is this what Condi Rice meant when she announced the "birth pangs" of a "New Middle East"---a humanitarian crisis extending from the Mediterranean to the Caucuses?

Many people are wondering why the United Nations has remained silent while Bush ships more weapons to the frontlines and the Lebanese Army continues to pound away at the most densely populated area in the Middle East.

Is it because the UN has become a rubber stamp for US-Israeli colonial ambitions in the region?

Face it; the UN's role is to feign concern for human rights while the US and its allies pursue their imperial goals.

It's only gotten worse under the newly-appointed Secretary General, Ban Ki Moon. Moon has shown that he's incapable of being evenhanded and that he's little more than an American stooge. With less than a year in office, his credibility is already shot.

The only bright spot in this latest American-made catastrophe is the courage demonstrated by the victims.

As Franklin Lamb says in his latest article "Inside Nahr el-Bared: Another Waco in the making":

"Amazing examples of humanity are happening here. There are many family connections between the two camps. Kids distribute and water bread when it arrives in cars from Beirut and elsewhere. Young girls picking up and caring for babies of people they don't know, helping old people find a place to sit and listen to them when they tell of what happened. I could be wrong but I have rarely witnessed the solidarity among people as I see here with the Palestinians. Clean, smart, patient, charming, funny, and caring toward one another-determined to return to Palestine."
Click to expand...

Even though they've lost their homes, the Palestinians have raised themselves above the squalor and cruelty of their predicament and shown selflessness and bravery.

That's a powerful statement about the affects of culture and national identity.

As the Palestinian poet Mahmud Darwish says in his poem "Passport":

"My nationality resides in the hearts of all the people,
So go ahead and remove my passport!"

Mike Whitney lives in Washington state. He can be reached at: [email protected]

Source:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17788.htm
 
Zman,
So is it fair to say that you think the bank robbers should not be perused and they should be given safe haven in the camp?
 
wilberhum said:
Zman,
So is it fair to say that you think the bank robbers should not be perused and they should be given safe haven in the camp?
Click to expand...

If they did rob a bank, then they most definietly should be persued. But, this is a police/law enforcement matter, not a military one.

Sending in the army and shelling the camp with artillery rounds and causing a mini-refugee crisis isn't an intelligent response.

Each refugee camp has it's Palestinian armed security teams, PLO guys, and Palestinian Islamic fighters. They would know better on how to deal with these guys, there whereabouts, conduct a better "surgical strike" than the Lebanese military can ever do.

If they are truly guilty, then punish the culprits, not the innocent residents of the camp.

If Fatah al-Islam are pawns to higher powers, then, we'll be facing a serious problem...
 
Zman

If they did rob a bank
Click to expand...
I always love the "If" stuff when talking about facts.
Sending in the army and shelling the camp with artillery rounds and causing a mini-refugee crisis isn't an intelligent response.
Click to expand...
Isn't an intelligent response to what? I think it is an appropriate response to armed group attacks. Don't put "B" before "A". The army was fired upon first.
Each refugee camp has it's Palestinian armed security teams,
Click to expand...
And what action have they taken?
If they are truly guilty, then punish the culprits, not the innocent residents of the camp.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be nice if justice could so easley be served up.
If Fatah al-Islam are pawns to higher powers, then, we'll be facing a serious problem.
Click to expand...
I truly think we'll be facing a serious problem.
 
:sl:/Peace To All

Lebanon: Hizbullah's Controversial Move To Aid Nahr el Bared Camp

By Prof. Rami Zurayk
Monday, 28 May 2007, 9:21 amk
Scoop

The past 48 hours were very eventful in Lebanon, and set the stage to what promises to be a critical development in the protracted Lebanese conflict. The most important political event was the TV address by Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah on the Occasion of Liberation Day, which commemorates the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon on May 25, 2000.

Nasrallah made many significant points, which deserve to be analyzed at length because they provide an insight on the possible evolution of the political and security situation in the country and in the region.

However, the crux of the speech, which he left for the very last, was his clear statement of the position of Hizbullah vis a vis the siege of the Palestinian camp of Nahr el Bared and the events surrounding it.

Nasrallah unequivocally stated that, for Hizbullah, the army was extremely important, as it is the last "impartial" institution in the country (the quotes are mine), and that the breakdown of the army would inevitably lead to the political meltdown of Lebanon. He declared the army a "red line".

But Nasrallah also went on to indicate that the Palestinians in Lebanon were another "red line", in clear reference to the shelling by the army of the Nahr el Bared Palestinian camp and the ensuing exodus of tens of thousands of people to the neighboring Beddawi camp, where they live today in squalid conditions.

By equating the army with the Palestinians in Lebanon, Nasrallah went out on a limb, and put his party, the Shi'a, and the whole opposition in a vulnerable position. The army expressed its dismay at Nasrallah's position, and the government forces were quick to react by accusing Hizbullah of purposely weakening the army, and of standing on the side of "foreigners" against the Lebanese.

In the currently divided Lebanon, the army has become a key player, as the two opponents (government and opposition) line up their pawns for a further set of their power game. The army has so far remained a wild card, but has been leaning more towards the opposition than towards the Government. It is not sure how Hizbullah's statement will be translated by the army's leadership. It is also unclear what this will mean in terms of realignment, especially in light of the significant military aid the army has recently received from the US and the other US-aligned Arab countries.

Clearly, Nasrallah has taken a very risky step. Nasrallah's statement was received with much relief by the population in the Palestinian camps. It provided a much needed political, human and moral support at a time where being Palestinian in Lebanon is a real curse. People in the camps felt that someone with political weight in Lebanon was finally interceding in their favor, and that their human rights situation might slightly improve.
Click to expand...

Few Lebanese fully perceive the extent of the hardship under which the Palestinian live in Lebanon. Many have for them a particularly vicious form of racist hatred.

Others see them as an annoyance and a potential source of trouble. But most of the time, when they are quietly tucked into their camps, they are simply disregarded. In Lebanon, there are 400,000 people (one tenth of the population) living under extreme material and human hardship, which have completely slipped out of the ethical radar. Lebanon, a nation always praising itself on its significant contribution to "civilization", lives in denial of their existence.

Except when the injustice spills out of the camps into their own little world.

The events taking place in the Nahr el Bared camp have revealed the extent of the discrimination to which Palestinians are subjected in Lebanon . The fighting between the Lebanese army and Fateh al Islam, a small group of radical Islamic militants of various nationalities, has resulted in the army siege of the camp of Nahr el Bbared (40,000 people) for 7 days and counting, its indiscriminate shelling in order to dislodge the militiamen, and the displacement of up to 20,000 people.

The displaced have sought refuge in the neighboring camp of Beddawi, creating a human tragedy in which poverty is compounded by displacement. In the Beddawi camp, the poor have now to cater for the need of the poorer, in overcrowded conditions where deprivation and destitution have become the norm. And while, in the past 5 days there has been an exponential increase in the number of camera-happy media types invading people's privacy far beyond what is reasonably acceptable for a fair coverage, this has not translated into an equivalent amplification of humanitarian aid.

Some Grassroot groups from Beirut and the Beddawi camp, however, have been quick to move.

Since the first day of the fighting, small groups that were active during the displaced crisis caused by the Israeli war on Lebanon of July 2006, have regrouped and started to organize, raise funds, purchase essential goods and deliver them to the 6,000 families of refugees in the Beddawi camp, as well as to the 350 families that have reached the Beirut camps of Shatila and Burj el Barajneh. However, the fund raising and logistical capabilities of these groups are very limited, and fall very short of addressing the needs of all. Their spending capacity is of a few thousands of dollars per day, while the needs are in the order of several hundreds of thousands of dollars per day. I work with one of these groups, the Nahr el Bared Relief Campaign
( www.nahrelbareddonations.blogspot.com ).

Besides the grassroots groups and the slow moving giants, political aid is also being received by the camp refugees. The Future Movement of Mr. Hariri has been a donor, although its aid has been focusing on strengthening the grip of the PLO Fatah movement, aligned with Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, on the camps population. Moreover, in a move to support its statement with actions, Hizbullah sent yesterday a convoy of 12 trucks of essential goods. It is unclear which Palestinian side was at the receiving end, but it was not our local grassroot partners.

*******

Rami Zurayk is a Professor of Ecosystem Management, American University of Beirut. The opinions expressed in this article are personal and do not necessarily represent the opinions of the American University of Beirut. Interested in food, farming and rural society?

You can view more of Prof. Zurayk's work at http://www.landandpeople.blogspot.com/

Source:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0705/S00465.htm
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top