Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[MustafaMc]

No one is saying you should switch from Islam to Greek Mythology. To my knowledge, there are no Greek mythologists on this board suggesting that.

What I suggest is that you will have to pay for every single sin you ever committed, in word, thought, or deed, if you don't accept Jesus' payment for you. Every sin must be paid for, by someone---either the person who committed it, or by Jesus. And don't think because you have big numbers of people believing like you, that you must be right, "for broad is the way that leads to destruction, and MANY there be that go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).

Peace

Have you ever heard of the Mercy of Allah. Well, it's a wonderful thing......

 

[Woodrow]

Have you ever heard of the Mercy of Allah. Well, it's a wonderful thing......

Very true, nothing can surpass his mercy and nothing needs to. Even Christians are aware of his mercy you will often hear Christians say: "For he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.........."

A Christian can not deny he is aware of the infinite mercy of Allah(swt). I can not understand how they can not believe that he is capable of forgiving each of us with just a thought.

 

[Redeemed]

What is your reference? If you did not actually write this, then this post is plagarism. If you did write it, how did you get so close to Allah that he talks to you?

\
It is not plagarism as you might purport. If you notice it says Thus says the Lord. I am certainly am not the Lord. Look at Jer. 23
The way I got close to the Lord was through Jesus. That is why there is a fire and power behind the verses I write. The letter of the law is dead; it is the spirit that brings it alive! I have that spirit. That is why I am bold in the Lord. And you're right the fear of the Lord is good bc it endures for3ever and it is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom.

 

[Redeemed]

Have you ever heard of the Mercy of Allah. Well, it's a wonderful thing......

Have you ever heard of the wrath and justice of God? It is a fearfull thing to fall into the hands of the living God with no covering for your sin. You are on your own bc U choose so. The soul that is not covered by the blood of the Lamb of God is out of reach from GOD'S mercy because it is God's standard.

 

[Phil12123]

(sarcasm) If Chrstians are "saved" by the blood of Jesus, what's there to fear? Punishment of sin? Hell? Allah's Wrath?

Not hell and not wrath. That is what Christians are saved from. But the "fear of the Lord" for the Christian is more of a reverence and holy respect, as a child has respect for his parents. Why? Because if he doesn't and if he disobeys, he can expect a corrective spanking. In scripture, the "spanking" is called "chastening" or "chastisement" as seen from the following passage:

Hebrews 12:
5. And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8. But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye *******s, and not sons.
9. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10. For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

That is a huge difference that I see between Christianity and Islam---the relationship between the believers and their God. For the Christian, the relationship is a spiritual adoption into the family of God, whereby the new believer becomes a newborn child of God, heir of all things, joint-heir with Jesus Christ. He has a new (spiritual) daddy---God Himself, as Jesus taught his disciples to pray, "Our Father, Who is in heaven...." Before that they are just children of Adam, or worse, children of the devil, as Jesus called the religious leaders who rejected Him (John 8:44). As children of God, believers can know and approach their heavenly Father for all their needs just as our own small children can know and approach us.

By contrast, Muslim believers are not permitted to consider Allah as their heavenly Father in any sense. He is more their Judge, someone to indeed fear because they have no assurance of his mercy or of their eternal destiny. They may pin their hopes on the Quranic verses that say over and over that Allah is merciful and forgiving, but they still don't know if that is how it will turn out in their own individual cases.

And then there is the element of LOVE. The Bible says, "God is love" (1 John 4:8). But one Quran that I have has an index that goes from page 425 to page 452---27 pages---without a single listing for "love." I had to go online to do a search for "love" in the Quran. And when I did, I did find over 80 verses that include the word "love." But what I also found is that no where does the Quran say that God loves sinners and is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (like 2 Pet. 3:9). In fact, the picture I got was that Allah loves doers of good deeds but doesn't love doers of bad deeds. Now, that seems normal and good, because God hates sin. But from a biblical viewpoint, He loves the sinner but hates the sin. And then He DID something to provide for the sinner's forgiveness of sin by sending Jesus to die for it. Not so with the Quran.

So those are two things that I find very unattractive in Islam. No sense of a heavenly Father and no sense that as such He loves me as His child. Maybe you can do without either, but not me. I'm thankful I don't have to.

Peace

 

[Redeemed]

There is no rod, there is no tension. You sound very much like I did at one time. I put up a very strong fight against Islam until Allah(swt) woke me up.

All of my protesting and denial was just me being afraid to let loose of my "old comfort zone" and take a plunge of pure faith. Well, to be honest it was not so much of a plunge as it was a feeling of being embraced with pure love.

A man cannot have more love than to lay down his life for a friend. That is what Jesus did for us. There is no comfort zone being a Christian. It is a call to die to your own fleshly desires and live holy and righteously before God. I cannot do this. With man it is impossible, but with GOD all things are possible.
peace

 

[Redeemed]

The most uncomfortable place for a Christian is a comfortable place.

 

[Redeemed]

A comfort zone is not necessarily physically comfortable, it is what a person feels they understand.

With this I say good night. I have eastern time. My experience and knowldge of the Scriptures tells me. That if there is a lack of comfort due to a lack of peace in a decision you or anyone makes concerning something special, it is good to do nothing than to operate out of what you don't have the faith for. You see, it is the devil that pushes you into a direction or decisions, but the Lord leads his sheep gently. I am one of his sheep and I am very comfortable and safe, and that is a very good thing when you have eternity in mind.
peace

 

[vpb]

I said you are ascribing to Allah a partner for a few reasons. For instance, your honor for the prophet is unprecedented through out Biblical history. God never had the children of God say believe in Jehovah and His messenger Moses or God and his messenger Abraham or even God and John the Baptist who was the greatest of all spiritual men that ever walked on the face of this earth next to Jesus, because he was filled with God's spirit at birth. You have made Muhammad partner with Allah in your confession of faith (Shahada). This is not what we do. We do not confess any prophets with God for our salvation or to be a Christian, but you most certainly do. If we confessed a prophet along with God as a part of our confession of faith, a mere man that sins like all the rest of us, we would be guilty of idolatry. You have elevated Muhammad to a place that no other prophet has ever been. There have been many great prophets recorded in the Bible, and not one of them have been ascribe with God through a confession of prayer to show submission to the Lord. People just simply chose to obey or not the word of the Lord through them that is all, and the prophet’s job was over. That is it - period. God never shared His glory with a prophet; moreover, he never will. But, that is not so in Islam. I share what God showed me through prayer not from any book.

hahaha, i can't believe what u write sometimes. We include Muhammed in our shahada, bc we have to testify that Muhammed is Allah's messenger,
as I showed the hadith, but it seems that you didn't read it.

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 47: Narrated Abu Huraira:
One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, .............

so one of the conditions of faith is to believe in all Allah's apostles, now there are people who believe all the apostles, but don't believe Muhammed, so you have to add Muhammed on the shahada, to testify in particular that you believe that Muhammed is Allah's last messenger, bc if you don't believe that Muhammed is a messenger, than you have to reject Qur'an, and if you reject also the Qur'an than what's left?? bc in order to be saved, you have to follow the last messenger, which is Muhammed, who came with the last book which is Qur'an. You cannot follow any other prophets or books anymore, cuz previous prophets and books were sent to specific nations, and earlier times. So Muhammed is a model for us from the time he started reciving his revelation till the day of Judgmenet, and the Qur'an, and his Sunnah. so you have to specific on shahada, to declare also that you believe that Muhammed is the Allah's messenger, do you get it? bc it seems everyone does but u? what's all this got this to do with worship? how can we worship Muhammed , or join partnership to Allah, when the core of Islam is about "Allah is one, without partners or rivals", can you please explain me, how can we join partnership if the core of Islam is that?? but as Wodroow said, you are trying to find justification for your own beliefs . it is you who ascribe partnership to Allah, bc you are worshipping Allah's apostle, and making him God, it is you who are ascribing children to Allah, it is you who are comitting kufr, it is you who are comitting shirk, not us. If we would joing partnership with Allah, we would not be saved. and pleae read the hadiths and verse from Qur'an when I post, bc if you don't read them, then how are you supposed to understand what i'm trying to say and prove.

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:
Then Allah's Apostle said, 'Do not praise me excessively as Jesus, son of Marry was praised, but call me Allah's Slave and His Apostles.'


may Allah swt save us from comitting kufr/shirk with our mouths and hearts. Ameen

 

[evangel]

Simply put, the Trinity is the three ways that the one true God manifests Himself.

 

[vpb]

Simply put, the Trinity is the three ways that the one true God manifests Himself.

4:171
O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

 

[evangel]

far be It from His glory that He should have a son

God did not have (conceive) a son, He is the Son.

 

[- Qatada -]

But that's disrespectful isn't it? to claim that god died and went into a grave? :? isn't that a human attribute?

If one were to claim that a prophet died, then that is logical since Prophet Yahya/John the Baptist got killed. But to claim that it's god is clear blasphemy.

 

[vpb]

God did not have (conceive) a son, He is the Son.

ok , so if you say God = 'He is the Son', then the father of the son should alsso be God, so now we are having 2 Gods?? which is contradicting the

Simply put, the Trinity is the three ways that the one true God manifests Himself.

;D;D;D

But that's disrespectful isn't it? to claim that god died and went into a grave?

isn't that a human attribute?

there are a lot of human attributes they put to God , it's not just one.

 

[evangel]

But that's disrespectful isn't it? to claim that god died and went into a grave? :? isn't that a human attribute?

If one were to claim that a prophet died, then that is logical since Prophet Yahya/John the Baptist got killed. But to claim that it's god is clear blasphemy.

Jesus did many things but His purpose for coming was to die on the cross, to be the perfect sacrifice, without blemish, and purchase our place in heaven. So it isn't blasphemy, it is recognizing God's plan.

 

[vpb]

Jesus did many things but His purpose for coming was to die on the cross, to be the perfect sacrifice, without blemish, and purchase our place in heaven. So it isn't blasphemy, it is recognizing God's plan.

4:157
And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa (Jesus) son of Marium, the messenger of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Jesus) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.

4:158
Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

4:159
And there is not one of the followers of the Book but most certainly believes in this before his death, and on the day of resurrection he (Jesus) shall be a witness against them.

 

[evangel]

ok , so if you say God = 'He is the Son', then the father of the son should alsso be God, so now we are having 2 Gods

I wrote in my original post ONE true God. You have managed to misrepresent and misquote what I have written (2 posts, a total of 26 words).
Are you a journalist?

Here's a list:
1. Read
2. Form an opinion
3. Respond

You forgot #1

 

[- Qatada -]

Jesus did many things but His purpose for coming was to die on the cross, to be the perfect sacrifice, without blemish, and purchase our place in heaven. So it isn't blasphemy, it is recognizing God's plan.

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!"

(Qur'an 5:75)


​

"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65)



"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!'

Such was Jesus the son of Mary. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is"

(19:30-35).



And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah , my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.

If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Allah will say, "This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness." For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment.

To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent.


[Qur'an 5: 116-20]

​

 

[vpb]

You said:

Simply put, the Trinity is the three ways that the one true God manifests Himself.

The Verse of Quran:

4:171
O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

You said:

God did not have (conceive) a son, He is the Son.

I said:

ok , so if you say God = 'He is the Son', then the father of the son should alsso be God, so now we are having 2 Gods??

You said:

I wrote in my original post ONE true God. You have managed to misrepresent and misquote what I have written (2 posts, a total of 26 words).
Are you a journalist?

Here's a list:
1. Read
2. Form an opinion
3. Respond

You forgot #1

what did I miss here? is this the response bc you contradicted youself? explain it to me please.

 

[evangel]

Where did I write, "now we are having 2 Gods."