Hostage-Taking - Is this Terrorism or a Legitimate Operation?

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To the Hospital Hijackers:
How about this for ending the war? Use the guns and explosives to attack military targets of the russian army. Then you can call yourself freedom fighters or rebels and nobody thinks of you as murdering terrorist pondlife.

Quick answer...because attacking people who can shoot back requires some guts, and the idea that a democracy will capitulate if it's people react in horror at the slaughter of it's innocents is one that all terrorists subscribe to.
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Ah so much rubbish in the last two paragrapghs, i barely know where to start :rollseyes

Ok -"Use the guns and explosives to attack military targets of the russian army" - way ahead of you, after Buddenyvosk - the same guys used the ceasefire obtained from the hostage-taking to re-group, re-arm - and when hostilities started again - they attacked the three major cities in Chechnya, re-took them and defeated the Russians on the battlefield

So, yes military targets WERE targeted and the russian military WAS defeated and what they achieved in the hospital seige had a massive military benefit :thumbs_up


As far as the "attacking people who can shoot back requires some guts" arguement is concerned - the Russians themselves admit the guys who took the hospital were the best and most successful unit in the war and they were the ones who defeated the russains eventually

so when you defeat a former superpower in battle - like these guys did - then come back and talk about peoples "guts" lol :D
 
barney said:
Then why carry explosives and weapons into the place? Did they mistake it for an arms fair where they were going to sell them on, or were they responding to a weapons amnesty and mistook the hospital for a police station.

To the Hospital Hijackers:
How about this for ending the war? Use the guns and explosives to attack military targets of the russian army. Then you can call yourself freedom fighters or rebels and nobody thinks of you as murdering terrorist pondlife.

Quick answer...because attacking people who can shoot back requires some guts, and the idea that a democracy will capitulate if it's people react in horror at the slaughter of it's innocents is one that all terrorists subscribe to.

The big problem is Russia isnt a real democracy. It's leaders dont really care about their own people. You could bomb them from january till christmas every year and it wont change a thing except make them dig their heels in further and react violently against it.

I beleive that you might try the diplomatic route (like northen Ireland did) or the Non-compliant route (like India). That works.

Or is it really that, (until 1990) the "Great Satan" was the USSR? And a dead infidel is a good infidel?
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Do you think that if they came with empty hands the Russians would feel threatened? Of course they had to bring weapons and show the Russians that they have them. And they have been attacking the Russian military for 10 years now but they're outnumbered and don't exactly have the same weapons as the Russians do. So it takes time to fight the enemy but time is something they don't have because while they're fighting, hundreds of people are getting killed everyday. They had no other choice. It was either that or just watch thousands of men, women and children being slaughtered.
 
Chechnya said:
Since you dont support this hostage-taking, is it fair to assume both of you wanted the rape, torture and murder of tens of thousands of Chechen men, women and children to continue?
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Why on earth would that logically follow? This is simply a nonsense statement. What a ridiculous thing to say, as if that it is the only choice a person has - and as if hostage taking is the only (or even a likely) solution to the turmoil in Chechnya...!
 
Why on earth would that logically follow? This is simply a nonsense statement. What a ridiculous thing to say, as if that it is the only choice a person has - and as if hostage taking is the only (or even a likely) solution to the turmoil in Chechnya...!
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IN this instance, these were the only options.

Before the hospital seige, the slaughter of the chechen people showed no signs of stopping - it was only when the resistance entered into Russia and literally forced Russia to negotiate that hope was bought to the chechen people - most western journalists and analysts share this view and see the hospital seige as the beginning of the end.

No hospital seige - no end of slaughter of the chechen people
 
Chechen said:
They had no other choice.
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This is the making of the substance that is found to be expelled from the orifice just below the base of a bull's tail.

Taking innocent people hostage is never a justified solution. It can only be described as a lazy, cowardly way out. Any person that would employ the tactic of putting civilians in harms way to achieve a political goal, has no heart or soul, and should only be viewed with contempt.
 
wilberhum, keltoi,

maybe if someone would kill and masacree your wife and your children, you would think different :) wouldn't u?, so please don't speak of things which you have never tried. You are just people who don't know what is war, zero, nothing , you just think you know about war but u don't, cuz you have never experienced war, you've just seen couple of movies and documentaries. but as I said maybe if you would see your wife and children get masacred, I would like to see how you would behave in that case :) so don't be ignorants and making such foolish comments. you are either ignorants, or you don't have any mercy whatso ever for people's lives that are being taken everyday.
 
whoa.. this board has some real extremists doesn't it? so far, i have 21 marked down (yes, i keep tabs!)

let me just ask this..

so 9/11 happened right. it happened by OBL, a muslim.

does that give america the right to go to arabia, kill all the muslims, and all of a sudden "justice is served?"

you have to look at both sides here.

killing anyone, for any reason, is just totally wrong and immoral. there is nothing "justice" about it. and people have got to start understanding that.
 
If the Russian army has deliberatly targeted civilians then they can be called terrorists.

The excuse that there is no other option, isnt a excuse. It's just murder. It's cold blooded evil murder, and the Heroic Martyers who threaten and kill women and kids dont deserve gloryfying/ supporting/ cheering/ excusing.

They need shooting. Through the head.
 
If the Russian army has deliberatly targeted civilians then they can be called terrorists.
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no one is calling them terrorists, actually people are calling the chechens terrorists.

The excuse that there is no other option, isnt a excuse. It's just murder. It's cold blooded evil murder, and the Heroic Martyers who threaten and kill women and kids dont deserve gloryfying/ supporting/ cheering/ excusing.
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did u read the first post, or u'r just posting without looking anywhere.
Cechens, stated that no killing was involved in the hostage-taking act.
and can you please propose the solution (an option) for the chechens? if you are saying that there is no excuse for saying 'no other option' ??
 
whoa.. this board has some real extremists doesn't it? so far, i have 21 marked down (yes, i keep tabs!)
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keep counting. but I don't know who are the real extremists here, us or you. who have been giving votes to the biggest terrorist in the world who killed thousands of people.

let me just ask this..

so 9/11 happened right. it happened by OBL, a muslim.

does that give america the right to go to arabia, kill all the muslims, and all of a sudden "justice is served?"

you have to look at both sides here.
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first, who said that OBL did 9/11?? we know nothing about 9/11,and who was behind it, so it's just a conspiracy theory.
so don't start drawing conclusions here.

and 9/11 is totally different issue comparing to Chechenya's issue. 9/11 is not a war, in Chechenya there is a war.
don't speak non-sense.

and it's the fact that you cannot comprehend, PEOPLE DO NOT THINK THE SAME AS YOU DO IN A STATE OF WAR, THEY DONT HAVE SAME WAY OF THINKING AS YOUR BRAIN DOES WITH YOU SITTING ON THAT CHAIR HAVE A CUP OF COFFE AND ENJOYING YOUR DAY. THEIR PHYSIC IS DIFFERENT DUE TO THE STATE OF WAR. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS?????
 
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Chechnya said:
What do you think?
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The answer is simple.
Taking hostage is wrong. i doubt you expected any other answer.
For what ever reason you do it, it's evil.
I think (but I'm not sure...) that there are cases in life when you are facing two evils - bigger and smaller and all you probably can do is just to choose.
But when you do the "lesser evil", you should be full aware, that what you do is wrong. Period.
Without using justification. Just face it - it's wrong. And you should pay for it (confess, apologise, feel guilty, repent).
It's a bit similar to "civil disobedience" - for higher reasons you knowingly break law and you fully accept to bear all the consequences of this fact.
Taking hostage is braking the Law (in which we both believe)
 
21? Now that's a big number. I've only counted 1 and half.
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;D ;D;D, who's the half?
 
:sl:/Peace To All

Although I do not condone hostage taking, but, I do understand what the Chechen people have been & are going through.

1. I have read stories and I did see interviews on international news channels, where Chechens, Abkhazians and others have stated that Christians in those regions have also taken Muslim children hostage, and many times have murdered them.

It may not Just have been a military operation, but, revenge is a powerful motivator.

2. Regarding Beslan, Russian attorneys and some Parliamentarians have stated that the Russian troops are as much to blame for the childrens death as the hostage takers.

Afterall, they initiated the attacks while negotiations were being conducted. And, the initial attack was carried out with an RPG (I believe).

You don't rescue hostages with anti-tank weapons, and heavy machineguns.

You don't assault a school that has a 1,000 hostages. Some hostages will be killed.

3. All the Russians had to do in order to defuse the crisis, was to let the hostage takers go, and then track them down in Chechnya.

The primary goal of any hostage rescue is to save the hostages. The Russians allowed the Chechens to leave Russian territory, after they previously took hostages in one hospital. The hostages were subsequently freed.

4. Those operations (when successful) show the Russian authorities that they aren't immune from retaliation, and the Chechens have a long arm, also.

5. They also bring attention to the world, about the plight of the Chechen people (that's when the international media finally gets access to the Chechen/Russian conflict (other than that, Russia doesn't allow any coverage of Chechnya).

The following is an example of what the Russian do on a daily basis:

MASS RAPE OF CHECHEN MEN BY RUSSIAN FEDERAL FORCES

Courtesy Of: The JamesTown Foundation
CHECHNYA WEEKLY
Volume 2, Issue 28
(July 24, 2001)
http://jamestown.org

According to Andrei Mironov of the Russian human rights organization Memorial, as cited by Miriam Lanskoy of Boston University, Russian forces stationed in Chechnya recently committed an organized mass rape of Chechen civilian males.

During a fact-finding trip to the North Caucasus, Mironov learned of an incident which took place earlier this month:

"Over 700 men (I was given a list of 762 names) were taken to a field. They [the Russian soldiers] raped a woman in front of them."

The Russian troops, Mironov related, then taunted the Chechen men, calling on them to defend the woman's honor.

Those who intervened, sixty-two men, were themselves then "handcuffed to an armored personnel carrier, and publicly raped."

"Never before have I heard about public rape," Mironov commented, "Of course, people were systematically raped in prisons and detention centers, and [in] military units.

This was intended to break their character. But now this is being done in public."

Mironov added that many of the Chechen men who had been publicly raped vowed that they would now become suicide attackers (Eurasianet, July 19).

In the no. 49 (July 16) issue of Novaya Gazeta, award-winning war correspondent Anna Politkovskaya discussed the same incident and added some details. "Sixty-eight men," she wrote, "living in Sernovodsk, have announced that they were raped by [Russian] soldiers conducting a punitive action, but they have not found the necessary understanding [on the part of the pro-Moscow Chechen authorities].

Forty-eight of them then appealed to [separatist President] Aslan Maskhadov with a request that they be permitted to become kamikazes in order to exact recompense for these humiliations by committing terrorist acts. Maskhadov categorically refused to grant their request. Two of them then attempted to commit suicide. This took place on July 12 in Sernovodsk. One succeeded. The other was revived."

Link To Report:
http://www.jamestown.org/publications_details.php?volume_id=11&&issue_id=493


1983-2003 © The Jamestown Foundation

This is a good source on the Chechen Genocide. It has a wealth of information.
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vpb said:
PEOPLE DO NOT THINK THE SAME AS YOU DO IN A STATE OF WAR, THEY DONT HAVE SAME WAY OF THINKING AS YOUR BRAIN DOES WITH YOU SITTING ON THAT CHAIR HAVE A CUP OF COFFE AND ENJOYING YOUR DAY. THEIR PHYSIC IS DIFFERENT DUE TO THE STATE OF WAR. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS?????
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So what? How does that justify taking hostakes or targetting civilians?
 
Chechen;

Ask yourself who will be remembered as more courageous and honorable.....the murdering beasts responsible for Beslan...or the Zealots of Masada?
 
Cognescenti said:
Chechen;

Ask yourself who will be remembered as more courageous and honorable.....the murdering beasts responsible for Beslan...or the Zealots of Masada?
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No Putin and his gang will definetely not be remembered as heroes.
 
So what? How does that justify taking hostakes or targetting civilians?
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I'm not saying wether it justifes or not.
but there is a difference between understanding the act and justifying it.

you have to understand what this people do, bc they Physic is different from us, they are in a state of war, they don't care wether you call them murder or terrorist or what, they are fed up with opression and the brutal regime of russians, and they try any possible way to stop that. so you can't expect them to think the same way you do. cuz you are living in peace and never been on war, but they have been on war for all their lives, and they don't care about what u say. they are fed up with these things. do u get what i'm saying?
 
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