Is being nationalistic also being extremist?

[HBot 5000]

I would say no but their are some examples (Nazi Germany) that would seem to fall into the above mould.

England i love England (the country hehe) but i would not and shall not die for it. I would only die for one cause and that is Allah's :arabic4: cause.

I was taught a set of ideals by England that i grew up with and yes very often defended verbally. But as i have matured, i have seen those values i hold so dear being violated by none other than England, the country that i love so much. So why on earth would i defend it? I still love England it has taught me so much including the meaning of hypocrisy.

Allah :arabic4: has taught me the truth and never has let me down as England (the country) has +o(

P.s. Dam it England (the person) - change your name

 

[Thanaa]

Thanaa;

They are merely registering their displeasure with an "occupying force". And it has been going on a lot longer than the occupation of the West Bank. Better a bit of harsh treatment at the workplace rather than strapping bombs to their children's chests, eh? I don't imagine Welsh is easy to learn. Why don't you move, to England?

"Occupying Force"?
What occupying force?
You lack brain cells my friend, if you think that discrimination is okay in any way, shape or form. I can tell you now, that if it happened to you, you wouldnt coming out with such Crap.
And I am going back to England. Fast.
No. Welsh Isnt easy to learn-for me anyway-I tried with a book and cassette, and it didnt work. Couldnt do it.
I am lucky though-all that Ive been through has taught me the real value of manners, and it has reminded me that I have no excuse to hurt peoples feelings just because I can open my mouth.

 

[Cognescenti]

"Occupying Force"?
What occupying force?
You lack brain cells my friend, if you think that discrimination is okay in any way, shape or form. I can tell you now, that if it happened to you, you wouldnt coming out with such Crap.
And I am going back to England. Fast.
No. Welsh Isnt easy to learn-for me anyway-I tried with a book and cassette, and it didnt work. Couldnt do it.
I am lucky though-all that Ive been through has taught me the real value of manners, and it has reminded me that I have no excuse to hurt peoples feelings just because I can open my mouth.

Relax, Thanaa. No need to be slinging insults about how many brain cells I have. It was satirical. My reference was to the English "occupation" of Wales.

BTW, are you saying they discriminated against you soley because you didn't speak Welsh or for some other reason?

What you experienced was Lenguaphobia. It happens in Quebec to non French speakers in Catalonia to speakers of Castillian Spanish and even in Los Angeles if you are one of the few left who still speak English.

 

[August]

Nationalism is holding ones country above all others as superior and holding its citizens as inherently superior to all others.

I'd have to disagree on this point. I think a better way to look at it is putting your country's best and legitimate interests first. I don't want the United States to trample over the rights of the rest of the world, but I do expect the President to consider what is best for my country first. This I feel is nationalism. One can be deeply patriotic and still wish their country to be a doormat. Don't ask me how, but I do know people who feel that way.

 

[England]

I would say no but their are some examples (Nazi Germany) that would seem to fall into the above mould.

England i love England (the country hehe) but i would not and shall not die for it. I would only die for one cause and that is Allah's :arabic4: cause.

I was taught a set of ideals by England that i grew up with and yes very often defended verbally. But as i have matured, i have seen those values i hold so dear being violated by none other than England, the country that i love so much. So why on earth would i defend it? I still love England it has taught me so much including the meaning of hypocrisy.

Allah :arabic4: has taught me the truth and never has let me down as England (the country) has +o(

P.s. Dam it England (the person) - change your name

So if your "home" which would be "England" was being invaded you wouldn't fight for your country? You wouldn't fight for your home, your family, your fellow British muslims? What would you do? Cowar in the cellar, attic and wait for it all to pass by?
Is that because England is a Western country?

 

[noodles]

So if your "home" which would be "England" was being invaded you wouldn't fight for your country? You wouldn't fight for your home, your family, your fellow British muslims? What would you do? Cowar in the cellar, attic and wait for it all to pass by?
Is that because England is a Western country?

Referring to your idea of 'fight for your country', me personally I wouldn't. It is my opinion that I'd only fight for my beliefs and those are categorized as Islam.

The way I see it, Islam is a set of beliefs that adhere to your way of life, be it from politics, to personal to marital affairs, Islam covers most aspects and these set of beliefs appeals the most to me. Thus I'd be willing to die for it since it is practically my whole 'way of life' (as some others put it)

As for fighting for my country, I don't see the need to when the country I'm being governed by passes laws that I personally don't find alluring to me.

Sure, Islam had it's fair share of corrupt leaders and politicians, but being a muslim, I must adhere to "Islamic law" and so whatever guidelines there are I must follow. However, what I find disturbing about "fighting for England" is that yesterday, people were opposed against Homosexuality, and god knows today or in the future, they will be for it, and so I have a serious problem about being in the same category as the ones who fought for them.

(No, I don't mean to target Homosexuals, but it was an example that I used to prove my point)

Keep in mind, these are "my" views, feel free to disagree.

 

[north_malaysian]

I've voted "yes". Because being nationalistic means that you EXTREMELY love your nation. So Nationalists are Nation lover extremists. kay:

 

[E'jaazi]

Religion causes wars. As I said I expect anyone in this country die for their country in its time of need. The United Kingdom is a fortress.

People's misrepresentation of religion is what causes war, not the religion itself. With regards to nationalism, it is a problem, especially with the Muslims, because they begin to follow the ways of their culture and start to listen to the reasoning on men and stray away from the Sunnah. This is the root cause of all the problems that they bring on themselves.

 

[HBot 5000]

So if your "home" which would be "England" was being invaded you wouldn't fight for your country? You wouldn't fight for your home, your family, your fellow British muslims? What would you do? Cowar in the cellar, attic and wait for it all to pass by?
Is that because England is a Western country?

I would fight to defend my home. I am referring to the bricks and mortar that i have paid for & my family.

I love England but fighting for my country - Nope (not at this particular moment in time). I sadly don't believe in england anymore when it invaded Iraq on false pretences. Perhaps in time when another government preferably conservative comes into power i will change my mind.

I will always defend Muslims from people like you who strive to put a wedge between muslims by means of nationality. I pay my taxes (too much i might add) and do my bit but don't ask me to defend this hypocritical nation +o(

 

[Cognescenti]

I would fight to defend my home. I am referring to the bricks and mortar that i have paid for & my family.

I love England but fighting for my country - Nope (not at this particular moment in time). I sadly don't believe in england anymore when it invaded Iraq on false pretences. Perhaps in time when another government preferably conservative comes into power i will change my mind.

I will always defend Muslims from people like you who strive to put a wedge between muslims by means of nationality. I pay my taxes (too much i might add) and do my bit but don't ask me to defend this hypocritical nation +o(

What if you were a Spitfire pilot and the Nazis were coming? What if the Ottoman Empire were resurgent and the Turkish Navy (you will have to suspend disbelief for this exercise) were bearing down on Dover? What then?

 

[HBot 5000]

What if you were a Spitfire pilot and the Nazis were coming? What if the Ottoman Empire were resurgent and the Turkish Navy (you will have to suspend disbelief for this exercise) were bearing down on Dover? What then?

I reiterate my point again that at this particular moment in time i will not fight for my country.

If the Nazis were coming i would fight quite simply because the doctorine of these fascists is a threat to muslims everywhere. The Ottoman empire is a difficult example as the Ottomans saw themselves as the rulers of a "Universal Empire" and heirs to both Roman and Islamic traditions but i know one thing and that is i will NEVER EVER fight against muslims EVER.

 

[barney]

II love England but fighting for my country - Nope (not at this particular moment in time). I sadly don't believe in england anymore when it invaded Iraq on false pretences.

England isn't a foreign policy decision HBot.
England is a way of being. If your not feeling "English", you dont have to stay.
Perhaps a more moral place to live would be Iran?
Mayby Saudi Arabias civil rights record is more appealing?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

we only differentiate via islamic knowledge and piety.

to differentiate via anything else and completely insist on that is extreme as is every other view which goes against islam

 

[HBot 5000]

England isn't a foreign policy decision HBot.
England is a way of being. If your not feeling "English", you dont have to stay.Perhaps a more moral place to live would be Iran?
Mayby Saudi Arabias civil rights record is more appealing?

I am English never have i once said i did not want to be here in this beautiful country however i would not fight for this country at this present moment in time (allot of non muslims that i know think exactly the same way). I pay my taxes and do my bit. Don't like it tough! or are you now saying that my civil right to do what i want has been taken away? +o(

Have you been to KSA? I have. You are right its human rights are questionable its culture is deplorable however the countries religion Islam is beautiful and it was wonderful to be among like minded individuals. Iran! Iran?! please i'd rather be in Israel +o( (i have lived there too).

However if it comes to a choice between being English and being Muslim i choose the later, don't like that tough!

I shall pick and choose my battles. England isn't a foreign policy? are you sure about that? England is spreading it's perticular brand of democracy along with America throughout the world forcefully so don't say to me it isn't. +o(

 

[barney]

Yeah, you dont have to fight for your country.
Plenty of people are willing to do that for you.
I was just saying if you dont feel english, it's a free country to leave from. Unlike a lot.

I've not been to Saudi, but i have been Kuwait and Iraq.
You can change foreign policy by voting. (A bit like the Iraqi's now can!)

 

[HBot 5000]

Yeah, you dont have to fight for your country.
Plenty of people are willing to do that for you.
I was just saying if you dont feel english, it's a free country to leave from. Unlike a lot.

I've not been to Saudi, but i have been Kuwait and Iraq.
You can change foreign policy by voting. (A bit like the Iraqi's now can!)

I am english, it's not a feeling! just something i am. You are quasi correct with regards to changing foreign policy however this great nation must stand up for the injustices happening in Israel and not support it blindly like the Americans.

Yes Barney a section on the Iraqi populous can vote and this indeed is a triumph however the fact of the matter is that we invaded Iraq because we thought they had weapons of mass destruction +o( If the idea was regime change then why not come clean?

Anyhow i think this thread is decending into off topic territory fftopic: