What are the Responsibilities of a Believer with Regards to an Unbeliever?

[Walter]

Hi VPB:

when I say we don't compromise Islam, I mean that we don't give up Islamic values, just bc to please someone in order to have good relation with them. We see many muslims, in order to please non-muslims, they do things which are anti-islamic, just to have that "relationship". Of course we can cooporate, but within certain limits, so I don't give up my Islamic values.

So it appears that you do not want to compromise your Islamic traditional values. What if your tradition conflicted with what God wanted you to do? Obviously I am not talking about anything immoral; perhaps He just wanted you to worship Him through music for example. Would you tell God “NO!”

Regards,
Grenville

 

[ranma1/2]

i agree, it would be nice to see non-muslim members openly state how they would like us muslims to treat them within the boundaries of islamic law ofcourse.

ive never had problems with a kaafir, infact im good friends with quite a lot of them, so i dont see any problems yet but perhaps non-believers have found problems with certain actions of muslims in the past? :?

Well if you are interested in converting us i would recomend finding as much scientific evidence to support claims.

As for actions on the forum. Just follow the golden rule. Treat us as you would wish to be treated. Or rather dont treat us how you would not want to be treated.

 

[Malaikah]

So it appears that you do not want to compromise your Islamic traditional values. What if your tradition conflicted with what God wanted you to do? Obviously I am not talking about anything immoral; perhaps He just wanted you to worship Him through music for example. Would you tell God “NO!”

If God wanted us to worship Him through music then music would not be forbidden in Islam and we would have no problem with it. We don't dislike music because it is a personal thing, rather we dislike it because God told us it is not allowed through Islam.

The same goes for anything else.

 

[vpb]

So it appears that you do not want to compromise your Islamic traditional values. What if your tradition conflicted with what God wanted you to do? Obviously I am not talking about anything immoral; perhaps He just wanted you to worship Him through music for example. Would you tell God “NO!”

lol, I didn't say anywhere Islamic traditions, but I said Islamic values, but even if we say Islamic traditions, they come from Allah swt, basically the Islamic values come from Qur'an and the Sunnah? so how can they contradict what God wants? both sources are from Allah . so if I follow them, it's not possible to contradict God.

and sister Malaikah gave an explanation about your post, so I don't think it's necessary to make any additional comments on it.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Well if you are interested in converting us i would recomend finding as much scientific evidence to support claims..

www.islamcan.com
www.harunyahya.com
www.beconvinced.com

how much evidence do you require?

 

[Pygoscelis]

\

;D ;D ;D ...lollllll

we don't usually call non-muslims kuffar, but some of them just deserve to be called like that. as muslims we are supposed to behave good with muslims and non-muslims. to be kind. it's just that sometimes some people don't appriciate it , so we have to change our faces a little bit and we say that to poeple who we know for a quiet long time

Heh. Well like I said, I'm pretty much the extreme case here of polar opposite to Islamic views. And for the record I take no offence in being called Kuffar. I think it sounds quite nifty. You'd have to do much better than that if you ever wanted to offend me.

 

[Walter]

Hi Malaikah:

Please provide me with the verses in the Koran where God forbids music.

Regards,
Grenville

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Hi Malaikah:

Please provide me with the verses in the Koran where God forbids music.

Regards,
Grenville

is surah luqman verse 6 it forbids idle play of all sorts and a companion of the messenger of Allah sallallahi alaihi wasallaam swore three times that its about music and we take from the companions understanding


i hope that made sense

 

[Malaikah]

Please provide me with the verses in the Koran where God forbids music.

Hi,

There is no explicit verse that states this, however the Prophet pbuh forbade it, the evidence is in this hadith:

It was reported in a saheeh hadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “In my ummah there will be people who allow fornication/adultery (zina), silk, wine and musical instruments [ma’aazif]. Some people will stay at the side of a mountain, and they will have flocks of sheep. When a poor person comes in the evening to ask them for something he needs, they will say. ‘Come back to us tomorrow.’ Then during the night Allaah will destroy them by causing the mountain to fall upon them, while He changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Resurrection.’”

(Reported by al-Bukhaari in al-Saheeh mu’allaqan, 51/10.)​

 

[MTAFFI]

who told u that people of the book are not considered kuffar?

do u know what is the definition of 'kufr' ????

I read it in the holy Quran, I cant find the exact verse right now but I will provide it when I do

The definition of the kuffar is ingrateful or the disbelievers, the disbelievers are not Christians or Jews, but those who do not believe in Allah. The Quran says that the Jews and the Christians are wrong about their beliefs, but it does not specifically say they are kuffar. If I am wrong please correct me, I am still learning and I am going by what I have read so far.

Not only that but the word Kuffar is not used in a sense to describe someone but more to degrade someone (or at least on this forum). It is rude and against what the Quran teaches

Islam is a religion of peace and respect, many here and in other places do not always show this through their words and actions

 

[- Qatada -]

I don't want to go offtopic, but to answer the present question;

Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and among Al-Mushrikûn (the polytheists) were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence.

A Messenger (Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from Allâh, reciting (the Qur'ân) purified pages [purified from Al-Bâtil (falsehood, etc.)].

Containing correct and straight laws from Allâh.


And the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) differed not until after there came to them clear evidence. (i.e. Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and whatever was revealed to him).

And they were commanded not, but that they should worship Allâh, and worship none but Him Alone (abstaining from ascribing partners to Him), and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât - the 5 daily Prayers) and give Zakât (the charity): and that is the right religion.

Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.


Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.

Their reward with their Lord is 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (Gardens of Eternity), underneath which rivers flow, they will abide therein forever, Allâh Well-Pleased with them, and they with Him. That is for him who fears his Lord.


[Qur'an - Al Bayyinah [the Clear Proof/Evidence] 98]



Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -

They are in truth disbelievers. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating torment.

And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of them (Messengers), We shall give them their rewards, and Allah is Ever Oft*Forgiving, Most Merciful.


[Qur'an 4: 150-2]
​

​

So one has to accept ALL the Messengers' of God, and if one was to reject even one of them - then they are in truth disbelievers, since they are saying that God has lied. We take the whole package, not just part of it.



Regards.

 

[vpb]

Heh. Well like I said, I'm pretty much the extreme case here of polar opposite to Islamic views. And for the record I take no offence in being called Kuffar. I think it sounds quite nifty.

You'd have to do much better than that if you ever wanted to offend me.

please organize a course, and try to teach others
you're a very good man, as long as u take off that dog lolll just joking

Please provide me with the verses in the Koran where God forbids music.

it's Qur'an, not Koran, so I would be glad if you could write it like that. but anyways,
you can't always just say "provide me with verse", there are other methods, which rulings are derived and taken from Qur'an or Sunnah. That's why scholars have a big range of seeing things , much bigger range than us, so they take verses, hadiths etc. and they work day and night, and they come up with the ruling.
and myself, I think music is like alchool, it may be a good thing, bc through time people can change it, and look at today, how many people go to a disco just because a certain DJ is coming , and of course along with the music alchool , dancing with women/men, durgs is needed. so u see , that's why in Islam things are prevented before they happen, not after they happen. Like sexual act before marriage, Allah doesn't say "don't make zina (sex outside marriage)" but Allah says do not approach zina. Why bc once u approach zina, that's it, you will deviate and commit the act.
And also if you listen to the Qur'an, and then to music, u will see that the heart doesn't require music, cuz it destroyes it. but anyways there should be a thread about this.
Also remember, rulings in Islam, come in direct and indirect way.
for example Direct way : Don't eat pig's meat.
indirect way : the ruling of smoking, so you can't smoke.


thx bro (qatada) for explaninig to MTAFFI

 

[snakelegs]

if i understand it right, most christians believe that you must be a christian to go to heaven and if you're not, you go to hell - even if you've never heard of christianity.
muslims are different - they make allowances for people who have never heard the message of islam, and only those who have heard it and failed to accept it will go to hell.
so here is something i've wondered about for awhile.
if a muslim does dawa and the person does not revert, he is now culpable and will burn in hell forever. so by telling him about islam, the muslim is now putting the non-believe in the position for the first time of going to hell.
how do musims feel about this?

 

[Grace Seeker]

vpb, the post which led to this thread included the following:

The muslim's duty is to tell u the message, now wether u accept it or not, that has nothing to do with us. wether by citing you Qur'anic verses or hadiths your beliefs get stronger, or not I totally don't care. We as muslims believe that we can't guide people, it is only Allah az who guides people, , for those who reject the message, Allah either increases their stubborn against Islam, or brings them toward Islam. we might just deliver the message, and wether Allah az wants to guide you or not, that is Allah's decision. inshaAllah we have completed our duty upon you guys so we don't have to answer in front of Allah az on the day of judgmenet "why didn't u tell the people about the message".

It is the line: "we have completed our duty upon you guys so we don't have to answer in front of Allah" which I find most interesting.

If I read this at face value it seems that you don't actually have an interest in unbelievers, not as persons in their own right, but only as a means to an end -- that end being not having to answer in front of Allah. So Allah cares for non-believers, but to those who follow and submit their lives to Allah, we are just a duty, a task to be gotten out of the way in order that you may claim your reward.

Am I reading this correctly? Or am I reading too much into the comment?

 

[Muezzin]

if i understand it right, most christians believe that you must be a christian to go to heaven and if you're not, you go to hell - even if you've never heard of christianity.
muslims are different - they make allowances for people who have never heard the message of islam, and only those who have heard it and failed to accept it will go to hell.
so here is something i've wondered about for awhile.
if a muslim does dawa and the person does not revert, he is now culpable and will burn in hell forever. so by telling him about islam, the muslim is now putting the non-believe in the position for the first time of going to hell.
how do musims feel about this?

That's one of the reasons I dislike the 'negative reinforcement/your way of life sucks and you will burn' method of preaching as opposed to the 'hey, check out my hot ride, there's plenty more available' method of preaching.

I see very few special responsibilities that muslims have here and non muslims don't. General forum good behaviour is something we should all have. In general I'd say it is very good here.

I'm one of the more inflamatory posters here, because my views are pretty much the polar opposite of islam (I find religion dangerous, I support legal prostitution, public nudity, and marijuana, etc for some extreme examples). I never make personal attacks but sometimes my views get people riled. That is to be expected. And I must say it is impressive how rarely I get attacked.

It's cos your dog is so cute.

As Woodrow noted, you folks are the only muslims many nonmuslims here will ever have long conversations with. Like it or not, you represent muslims in general to many of us, so if you snap and start calling people names etc it reflects badly on your faith.

Very true.

I think the only special responsibilities muslims here have is to honestly answer questions and to make it clear that they are just one person and do not represent islam as a whole. In all fairness they shouldn't have to remind nonmuslims of this, but given the nature of the forum and the fact that most nonmuslims won't know much about islam, it is something that muslims should keep in mind.

That's life I guess.

 

[vpb]

It is the line: "we have completed our duty upon you guys so we don't have to answer in front of Allah" which I find most interesting.

If I read this at face value it seems that you don't actually have an interest in unbelievers, not as persons in their own right, but only as a means to an end -- that end being not having to answer in front of Allah. So Allah cares for non-believers, but to those who follow and submit their lives to Allah, we are just a duty, a task to be gotten out of the way in order that you may claim your reward.

I doesn't mean that we deliver the message to you, now we should stop. NO, it;s not like that. You have to constantly warn people about things which are wrong. But I made a statement like from a point of view , that I've delivered my message upon you, so Allah doesn't ask me on day of judgement why did u stay with these people and did not tell them about the message. inshAllah.

and my duty is to convey the message to you, so wether u accept it or not, that's not my problem. that's why I dont have to worry about.

Allah saws said in the Qur'an:

3:176. Let not those grieve thee who rush headlong into Unbelief: Not the least harm will they do to Allah. Allah.s plan is that He will give them no portion in the Hereafter, but a severe punishment.

5:41. O Messenger. let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" If any one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the least for him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah.s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment.

so I don't have to worry wether u accept it or not, my duty as a muslim is to convey the message continuosly, so I don't keep it myself. It's a sin in Islam to keep the knowledge for yourself and not give to others.

 

[snakelegs]

That's one of the reasons I dislike the 'negative reinforcement/your way of life sucks and you will burn' method of preaching as opposed to the 'hey, check out my hot ride, there's plenty more available' method of preaching.

i agree. for me, the use of fear in order to persuade people (politicians do it all the time too) - is a complete turn-off and has the exact opposite effect on me.

 

[Woodrow]

so here is something i've wondered about for awhile.
if a muslim does dawa and the person does not revert, he is now culpable and will burn in hell forever. so by telling him about islam, the muslim is now putting the non-believe in the position for the first time of going to hell.
how do musims feel about this?

For myself I find that to be a difficult question to answer. I do know that I am responsible for telling as much about Islam as I can in accordance with the abilities and knowledge Allah(swt) has given me. So my first question when a person refuses to accept it is to ask myself "How much of that refusal is my fault?" "Did I fail in presenting Islam as it is, and therefore the person does not know of Islam because I did not explain what it is." " Or did the person understand and is deliberately turning away even tho the believe it is the path they should look deeper into."

The final answer is I will one day have to explain if i truly tried my best to spread knowledge of Allah(swt) The person who refused to accept it will one day have to explain why they did not listen or show show that they truly did not receive enough information to say they had heard of Islam.

The final decision affecting both of us is in the will of Allah(swt).

Just my opinion, astagfirullah.

 

[vpb]

I agree with u'r opinion bro Wodroow.

 

[barney]

I'd agree with the atheist above that threats are utterly pointless.
When I first joined the forum , I read the introductory thread
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/39042-message-non-muslims.html

It basically says, now you have read this thread , you are warned. accept islam or burn.

I was going to just unsubscribe at that point. (Heh! i suppose a few people might wish I had), but I've certainly found that the majority of Muslims here have respect and are open to a good debate.

It's possible, i'm sure to talk about the carrot without showing the stick.