Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

[vpb]

Not really. While the Trinity is an important concept, it is the ideas expressed in the doctrine of the hypostatic union which is at the root of understanding the concept of the Trinity. But, ultimately it is the Cross that explains the whole of Christianity. (Of course, us Christians are batting 0 for 2 in talking to Muslims about these things.

but trinity is FSH, and who is the son? it's the one who u believe died on the cross. so I think trinity would be pretty much the base of christianity. but you know better. I'm not a christian.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.” (Mark 7:7)


1-Who are these People?

"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me"

2-Who are these people?

"They worship me in vain"

3-Who are this men?

"their teachings are but rules taught by men.”

:thankyou:

 

[glo]

These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.” (Mark 7:7)


:thankyou:

What exactly are you trying to say with this post, brother?

In this verse Jesus refers to a message from God to the prophet Isaiah (in Isaiah 30:13), to warn against the Israelites turning away from God.

In Matthew's gospel Jesus uses the verse to criticise the teachers and Pharisees of his time.
The essential message he is giving is that people are hiding behind their own righteousness and priding themelves in 'fulfilling the laws', when in fact they are just wanting to meet their own agendas ...
Very specifically the issue at hand is that Jesus' disciples had not washed their hands before eating - as was stipulated as a cleanliness law.

The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were "unclean," that is, unwashed. (The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)
So the Pharisees and teachers of the law asked Jesus, "Why don't your disciples live according to the tradition of the elders instead of eating their food with 'unclean' hands?"

He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.' You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."

And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."

(Matthew 7:1-13)

This passage warns us not to follow laws blindly and without meaning, but to put God and his will at the very centre of everything we do.

To use this passage as an argument against the trinity (being taught 'by men') seems - with all due respect - very far fetched indeed ...

Peace

 

[MustafaMc]

it is not only muslims who find this incomprehensible. i think, in order for it to make sense, you need to be a christian. i've never understood it, tho i admit that i never really tried because it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.
i am also under the impression that some christians don't really understand it either.

Very good point. I don't think that anybody really understands the Christian concept of the One God in three persons, or manifestations. Christians accept it on faith and build their other beliefs, such as the "atoning sacrifice", upon this principle. Dear Christians, please, correct me if I misspoke.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

What exactly are you trying to say with this post, brother?

To use this passage as an argument against the trinity (being taught 'by men') seems - with all due respect - very far fetched indeed ...

Are you mad at me because i'm asking questions? can you just guide me with love and passion like Jesus?watta h**l is wrong with this world?are we going to kill each other for this?:grumbling

I have yet to meet anybody (and that includes Christians), who fully and totally understands the trinity and is able to explain it so non-Christians can make sense of it ...

is there any room for other possibilities?....like....errrrr:exhausted ...ummm:exhausted ....There is no trinity in the first place?

or no need to interpret this, just accept the verse as it is?

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

No more confusion, and misunderstanding, can it be done?oh:

 

[glo]

Are you mad at me because i'm asking questions? can you just guide me with love and passion like Jesus?watta h**l is wrong with this world?are we going to kill each other for this?:grumbling

I apologise if anything in my post gave you the impression that I am mad at you.

I was merely disagreeing with you, and I tried to explain very carefully why.
I am not mad at you at all for having a different view from mine, ... and I certainly wasn't thinking about killing anybody for it! Honest ...

is there any room for other possibilities?....like....errrrr:exhausted ...ummm:exhausted ....There is no trinity in the first place?

I think the nature of God is clear ...
We will have to agree to disagree, brother.
To you your religion, and to me mine.

or no need to interpret this, just accept the verse as it is?

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

No more confusion, and misunderstanding, can it be done?oh:

There is no complicated interpretation. I do accept the verse as it is.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit are clearly all present in this situation ...

Peace

 

[vpb]

To you your religion, and to me mine.

edit.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

salam,

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

There is no complicated interpretation. I do accept the verse as it is.
God the Father, God the Son and God the Spirit are clearly all present in this situation ...

you do?^o)

Jesus (God Himself) on earth right?:thumbs_up ...then He saw spirit of God (which is Himself):muddlehea ...And He heard voice from heaven (actually His voice talking to Himself):uuh:

Is this because my wrong understanding of Trinity or this is what happen when one God has three persona?

what i mean by accepting the verse "as it is" is..(my personal view of course!)

Jesus (as) is one separated entities from God(a prophet maybe?)He is on Earth with a mission from God which is Greater than him, He saw Angel Gabriel descending from Heaven (like other prophets saw, maybe?), and Jesus blessed by his Lord with affirmation ""This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
The Lord love every prophet He sends, He pleased with whom so ever follow His prophet.

am i being too romantic here? i apologize..

:thankyou:

 

[vpb]

لا إله إلاَّ الله و محمد رسول الله

 

[MustafaMc]

لا إله إلاَّ الله و محمد رسول الله

Islamic testimony of faith - shahada. "There is no god, but One God and Muhammad is the Messenger of God."

 

[vpb]

Islamic testimony of faith - shahada. "There is no god, but One God and Muhammad is the Messenger of God."

or it could mean also "There is no deity of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger."

it's nice isn't it?

 

[MustafaMc]

or it could mean also "There is no deity of worship except Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger."

it's nice isn't it?

Yes, this simple statement is the foundation for our religion and for our way of life. We choose to believe that Muhammad (pbuh) was the Seal of Prophets and we also choose to believe what the Quran says about the Trinity and the "divinity" of Jesus (pbuh). In my opinion, there is no way to prove to Christians that the Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) concept is not monotheistic, but I believe that you, I and others have done an excellent job of laying forth the Islamic view in a most logical fashion. However, we can't make anyone believe what we hold as the Truth. Only Allah can guide those who are astray.

Quran 28:56 O Prophet, you cannot give guidance to whom you wish, it is Allah Who gives guidance to whom He pleases, and He is quite aware of those who are guided.

 

[vpb]

Yes, this simple statement is the foundation for our religion and for our way of life. We choose to believe that Muhammad (pbuh) was the Seal of Prophets and we also choose to believe what the Quran says about the Trinity and the "divinity" of Jesus (pbuh). In my opinion, there is no way to prove to Christians that the Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) concept is not monotheistic, but I believe that you, I and others have done an excellent job of laying forth the Islamic view in a most logical fashion. However, we can't make anyone believe what we hold as the Truth. Only Allah can guide those who are astray.

Quran 28:56 O Prophet, you cannot give guidance to whom you wish, it is Allah Who gives guidance to whom He pleases, and He is quite aware of those who are guided.

may Allah put us in Jannah Firdaws Allahumme ameen.

btw, a day before yesterday our Ummah = Ummah + 1 new brother Allahu Akbar wa lillahil hamd

 

[Woodrow]

may Allah put us in Jannah Firdaws Allahumme ameen.

btw, a day before yesterday our Ummah = Ummah + 1 new brother Allahu Akbar wa lillahil hamd

MABROOK--MUBARAK YOUM

Mashallah, Mashallah, Mashallah,

 

[Amadeus85]

MuhammadRizan






Jesus (God Himself) on earth right?:thumbs_up ...then He saw spirit of God (which is Himself):muddlehea ...And He heard voice from heaven (actually His voice talking to Himself):uuh:

Dont be suprised. You a human being, are trying to understand a nature of your God and creator. No wonder that it may be to complicated for you. Who said that nature of God must be easy like nature of monkey for example.
Maybe you are trying to understand something that only God understands.
Recently i read nice explanation of the trinity - There are three persons, but one God,
The Father- God above me,
The Son- God with me,
The Holy Spirit- God in me.

 

[vpb]

Don't be surprised. You a human being, are trying to understand a nature of your God and creator. No wonder that it may be to complicated for you.

We are talking here about fundamental-in-cube principle of Christianity. We are not trying to understand any principle in detail. So it's not an excuse for such a fundamental principle for us to be unable to understand it.

 

[Grace Seeker]

salam,




you do?^o)

Jesus (God Himself) on earth right?:thumbs_up ...then He saw spirit of God (which is Himself):muddlehea ...And He heard voice from heaven (actually His voice talking to Himself):uuh:

Is this because my wrong understanding of Trinity or this is what happen when one God has three persona?

what i mean by accepting the verse "as it is" is..(my personal view of course!)

Jesus (as) is one separated entities from God(a prophet maybe?)He is on Earth with a mission from God which is Greater than him, He saw Angel Gabriel descending from Heaven (like other prophets saw, maybe?), and Jesus blessed by his Lord with affirmation ""This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
The Lord love every prophet He sends, He pleased with whom so ever follow His prophet.

am i being too romantic here? i apologize..

:thankyou:

There is nothing in the character of God which prevents him from manifesting himself on earth in fleshly form. And doing so does not make him less of a God. And doing so does not separate him from himself either. If God is omnipresent, surely he can be walking the streets of Jerusalem and sitting on his throne in heaven at the same time.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Dont be suprised. You a human being, are trying to understand a nature of your God and creator. No wonder that it may be to complicated for you. Who said that nature of God must be easy like nature of monkey for example.

i understand what you're trying to tell me, yes! we cannot understanding God like His creation and i'm too not fool enough to admit I know God 100%, Even Muhammad or previous prophet never claimed that.

Everything we know About Allah in islam is what Allah told us through Quran and Hadith, we know His other names,attributes and it's enough, by knowing his attributes we can understand His General nature, why His doing this and that. At least we dont have any unexplainable mystery about our own main principal. that's exactly why god sends messenger and a scripture..to tell and clarified the truth.

Maybe you are trying to understand something that only God understands.

yeah maybe, or maybe i'm trying to understand something nonsense.

Recently i read nice explanation of the trinity - There are three persons, but one God,
The Father- God above me,
The Son- God with me,
The Holy Spirit- God in me.

yet there a still 3 separated entities againts claimed one god.

dont you think christians in trouble because they dont understand what Jesus(god Himself) thought.?oh:

 

[Grace Seeker]

yet there a still 3 separated entities againts claimed one god.

No, not three separate entitites. There is just one entity, one substance, one essence, one being. That one being (by his very nature, just like you have 10 fingers) exists as three persons. But each person is not separate from the one being. Three persons does NOT mean three individuals.

I know that many people miss this and then get confused. But if you keep thinking that we are talking about separate entities, then of course you will never understand the Trinity, because that is not what we are saying.

 

[MuhammadRizan]

salam

There is nothing in the character of God which prevents him from manifesting himself on earth in fleshly form. And doing so does not make him less of a God. And doing so does not separate him from himself either. If God is omnipresent, surely he can be walking the streets of Jerusalem and sitting on his throne in heaven at the same time

well, you're right...in the surface.

eventhough God has no limit and can do everything it will never do some thing contradict His attributes for sure.

Lets say God is All knowing and and All wise(can use this word? correct me if there is better word)then he will never do something worthless like mingling with human or even stupid like argue or fight with his own creation.

Lets say God is eternal then he will never do something like have a son or dying or resurected.

lets says God is almighty then he will never praying to errr Himself or let his creation taunt, beat, crucified him.

i can continue more but i hope u got a better view.

this is my personal views of course, thats why i cannot accept trinity(a mistery) into God.

God is free(subhanallah) from this unnecessery romantic(love us soooooooooo much)story.

His Prophet, His Word,His teaching, paradise is a Proof enough how God want's the best for us.

Are human arrogance enough to make god come to earth and love us sooooooooooo much.? are we?