Hamas Full Control Of Gaza!

[wilberhum]

Just came across this video, can you blame the kid in the vid if he wants to grow up and destroy Isreal? bare in mind that many of Hamas's members are displaced individuals who have seen loved ones, villiages and homes destroyed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW1-_JmXQt0&mode=related&search=

And so all Israelies should kill them selves?
As long as revenge is most important, peace will not happen.

 

[mariam.]

I agree too, we don't hate all Jews. However, we totally dislike the zionists who have occupied the Muslim land. We muslims never had a problem with jews living among the muslims for centuries, yet what's happening today is really evil.


I think sister mariam is saying that we need to come together to eradicate each others misconceptions, and teach everyone the right understanding in order to create peace between both parties.

thank you brother .. that's exactly what I mean.

 

[Keltoi]

Somehow I don't think it was quite that humanitarian...you don't bring up the "Elders of Zion" to foster understanding. Maybe I missed something.

 

[SATalha]

And so all Israelies should kill them selves?
As long as revenge is most important, peace will not happen.

No but you can understand why these kids want to grow up and fight!
You only need to use your imagination Wilber? Think if it was your mum.....what would you do?

This is not the point its the fact that the Isreali soldiers are so smug about it, this is what rages us. It is similar with the Russian slodiers in Chechnya. They are smug and arrogant, for them the palestinians are vermin. They do not mean anything 2nd class, worthless.

It is this kind of attitude that Edward Said talks about in his books, Euro-American smugness. I think this is what is being manifested on the globe since Empires where carved out.

WE ARE THE RIGHT ONES FOLLOW US......YOU ARE INFIRIOR STAY BENEATH US.

 

[wilberhum]

but you can understand why these kids want to grow up and fight!

Sure. but you can understand why kids, who had there sister blown up while taking the bus to school, want to grow up and fight?

It is a two way street. Until both want peace, there will only be death and suffering.

 

[SATalha]

Both do want peace you are right. But the cycle must be ended.....by the ending the occupation. By the way think about whos getting the raw deal.

 

[wilberhum]

Both do want peace you are right. But the cycle must be ended.....by the ending the occupation. By the way think about whos getting the raw deal.

I did not say "Both do want peace". There are major factions on both sides that do not want peace. Ending the occupation will only bring the Suicide bombers and rocket launchers closer to Israel.

Why would Israel allow that?

It has to be a two way street.

 

[SATalha]

I think you need to be realistic, Hamas have said tons of time that they will stop when the occupation stops. What is so simple, stop the occupation than there will be better chance of peace in Palestine.

 

[wilberhum]

I think you need to realistic, Hamas have said tons of time that they will stop when the occupation stops. What is so simple, stop the occupation than there will be better chance of peace in Palestine.

I have to be realistic? Hamas has a stated objective of destroying Israel. :?
Tons of time? Name one that I can research.
As far as I know they have never recognized Israel's right to exist.

Do keep in mind, I'm am not pro-Israel, I'm pro-peace.
:thumbs_up

 

[SATalha]

Yeah i know Wilber, i can tell from your sig. Anyway I know Hamas have made statements like this and this has not helped them in anyway. But i still think the cycle of violence will only be ended when occupation ends.

 

[wilberhum]

Yeah i know Wilber, i can tell from your sig. Anyway I know Hamas have made statements like this and this has not helped them in anyway. But i still think the cycle of violence will only be ended when occupation ends.

You miss logic. :skeleton: The violence did not start with the occupation. Violence caused the occupation.
Eliminating the occupation will not eliminate violence. :?


And what does my signature have to do with any of this? :enough!:

 

[Amadeus85]

I think you need to realistic, Hamas have said tons of time that they will stop when the occupation stops. What is so simple, stop the occupation than there will be better chance of peace in Palestine.

I think that you need to be realistic. Hamas doesnt want peace, it wants to destroy Israel. Hamas said it many times. Hamas wants to build an islamic state in the whole historical Palestinian land. What do you mean by ending the occupation? You mean pushing Jews to the sea or what? For Hamas the occupation wont stop untill Israel exists. So i ask, how can Israel treat this organization as reasonable partner to talk about peace?
The truth is that Israel is there to stay. Arabs tried so many times to destroy Israel, but it still exists.
After 60 years of war, Israel has dozens of satelites in space, and what Palestinians have created? Kassam rockets only i guess.
The truth is that Arabs must realize that sending back Jews to Europe or to Madagascar is just a fantasy and illussion.
The truth is Israel, just, as any normal democratic country, wont allowed others to be destroyed.
Arabs have two solutions.
They can try and try to destroy Israel and suffer from war and conflict all the time.
And they can recognize Israel and let build independent and democratic Palestinian state.

 

[SATalha]

You miss logic. :skeleton: The violence did not start with the occupation. Violence caused the occupation.
Eliminating the occupation will not eliminate violence. :?


And what does my signature have to do with any of this? :enough!:

Iam sory dude, man take a chIll pill. I swear i read on one of ur sigs sumin about peace. Sorry must b my old age (21 what can u do) how did the violence start? Oh thats a whole other matter.

 

[wilberhum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAMAS

Hamas was created in 1987 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin of the Gaza wing of the Muslim Brotherhood at the beginning of the First Intifada. It is best known outside the West Bank and Gaza Strip for its suicide bombings and other attacks directed against civilians and Israeli military and security forces targets. Hamas' charter (written in 1988 and still in effect) calls for the destruction of the State of Israel and its replacement with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Its charter states: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.

Suicide bombings and other attacks directed against civilians
Calls for the destruction of the State of Israel
There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.
Is that a peace partner?

Hamas announced it was giving up suicide attacks and "offered a 10-year truce [with Israel] in return for a complete Israeli withdrawal from the occupied Palestinian territories: the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem

A 10-year truce is not a peace plan.
It is a rearmament plan.
As seen below:

Hamas also declared a unilateral ceasefire with Israel which, after Israeli air strikes in response to Hamas smuggling weapons into Gaza, was formally renounced.

Reality sucks; Hamas has no interest in peace.
By that same token, I don’t think Israel wants peace either.

 

[wilberhum]

Iam sory dude, man take a chIll pill. I swear i read on one of ur sigs sumin about peace. Sorry must b my old age (21 what can u do) how did the violence start? Oh thats a whole other matter.

Old age at 21? You will be in sad shape when you are 61. :skeleton:

How did it start? Depends where you want to start. 1947, 1948,...., 2007?
Depending on where you start will determind the answer.

But since we don't get "Do Overs" in life, I care a lot more about the end than I do about the beginning. :thumbs_up

 

[SATalha]

Wow 61 thats fantastic! Your right if i go into a debate on how the violence startd, it will just drag. But i strongly recomend people to read up.

 

[sudais1]

You miss logic. :skeleton: The violence did not start with the occupation. Violence caused the occupation.
Eliminating the occupation will not eliminate violence. :?

That makes no apparent Sense, The British mandate of Palestine gave Israeli lands that belong to Palestine and once the Palestinians wanted Their land back they were brutally crushed by Israeli and their allies. Palestine will see peace once the occupation is over, Israel leave equals peace. Simple? Leave and peace is restored.

 

[wilberhum]

That makes no apparent Sense, The British mandate of Palestine gave Israeli lands that belong to Palestine and once the Palestinians wanted Their land back they were brutally crushed by Israeli and their allies. Palestine will see peace once the occupation is over, Israel leave equals peace. Simple? Leave and peace is restored.

Right all of Israel are going to get on the next ship. :skeleton:
Meanwhile back in reality land, people just keep killing each other. :raging:

 

[barney]

Guys, can we please discuss this without saying that we want to kill each other?

Thats What the UN have being saying for 60 years mate. :rollseyes

If you manage to get a peace settlement on the forum, then get yerself a job with them!

 

[Skywalker]

I think that you need to be realistic. Hamas doesnt want peace, it wants to destroy Israel. Hamas said it many times. Hamas wants to build an islamic state in the whole historical Palestinian land. What do you mean by ending the occupation? You mean pushing Jews to the sea or what? For Hamas the occupation wont stop untill Israel exists. So i ask, how can Israel treat this organization as reasonable partner to talk about peace?
The truth is that Israel is there to stay. Arabs tried so many times to destroy Israel, but it still exists.

I think that what they mean by the destruction of Israel is not forcing the Jewish people out, but forcing their government out and giving the Palestinians their land back, or compensating them somehow. And the reason Arabs haven't been able to take down Israel is because Israel is directly backed by the US and the Arabs are indirectly controlled by the US. So if the US agenda is to keep Israel where it is, most likely it'll stay that way.

After 60 years of war, Israel has dozens of satelites in space, and what Palestinians have created? Kassam rockets only i guess.

Is that really a fair statement? Look at what Israel had to work with and then look at Palestine.

Arabs have two solutions.
They can try to destroy Israel and suffer from war and conflict all the time.
And they can recognize Israel and let build independent and democratic Palestinian state.

Or they can be smart do both. Temporarily recognize Israel for a decade or two until they're strong economically, have good alliances with the Arabs, and actually taste peace for a while, and then take over Israel when they actually have the physical capability to do so. But until that time, don't fire one rocket or send out a single suicide bomber (and hopefully someone will tell them one day that suicide is haraam). To me, that's playing it smart.