Egyptian grand mufti says Muslims can convert

[wilberhum]

Why? Do you publically insult prophet Mohammed (pbuh)? Or tell people that Islam is a bad religion because a few Muslims behave badly?

It's not about having different beliefs and opinions, it's how you express them or "impose them on others" that tells people who you are. For example, you're an atheist, and although I don't believe what you believe, you don't see me insulting you or your beliefs. In fact, I don't even mention our differences in belief except when they are the subject of a thread.

But if I understood the article correctly, this individual publically attacked Islam through his comments about the prophet (pbuh), and the mission of his "committee" is to put focus on the negative elements in some Muslim countries in an attempt to defame Islam itself. Kinda lousy if you ask me.

Well, here we are again.

How much freedom should there be in freedom of speach?

Well as far as I'm concerned, I should be able to say anything I want and you should be able to say anything you want, as long as it dosen't upset me.

 

[Skywalker]

I have heard this guy speak often enough. He never uses foul language or slings around insults. He might think Muhammed was a bad man. That is his prerogative. That is not an insult.

Here's the thing though. There's something called stating an intelligent opinion based on evidence, and there's something else called stating a baseless opinion with evidence stacked against it. When you present the first as fact, no matter how many may oppose it, it would be your right because it's just an opinion that nobody can disprove, but when you present the second one as fact, and a quarter of the world's population has a problem with it, you're no longer doing something responsible or decent, you're just causing confusion either out of ignorance or out of maliciousness. See the difference?

For example, implying that all Muslims are bad because one Muslim man beats his wife is ludicrous. But it happens. These guys use cases like this to defame Muslims and Islam without presenting the whole truth to their audiences. I personally see that as an attack.

Your reaction is exactly what troubles me about Islam sometime and what makes me wonder if Western values can coexist with Islam in my country. I cannot believe that you are unsure whether letting a group of vigilante thugs beat up this guy is the right thing to do or not according Sharia law. Such a thing should be beyond debate.

Actually in a Sharia country it would be beyond debate -- it would not be allowed. Period. As for outside the Islamic world, it becomes complicated because we're not in the 7th century anymore -- everybody hears what everybody else says. The world is like one big TV station. A lot of thinking needs to go into this...but for starters, I don't think that anybody would have the right to beat him up or whatever since he wasn't breaking any of the rules of the country that he's in, while beating him up would be breaking the rules of that particular country -- which is not allowed in Islam.

 

[The_Prince]

I have heard this guy speak often enough. He never uses foul language or slings around insults. He might think Muhammed was a bad man. That is his prerogative. That is not an insult.

Your reaction is exactly what troubles me about Islam sometime and what makes me wonder if Western values can coexist with Islam in my country. I cannot believe that you are unsure whether letting a group of vigilante thugs beat up this guy is the right thing to do or not according Sharia law. Such a thing should be beyond debate.

nop Islamic and western values cant co-exist, at least not in total .

anyone who attacks Islam whethor through physical means (attacking muslims and muslim holy sites) or verbally automatically becomes an enemy to Islam. you may get a few muslims who say no no no its okay to verbally attack Islam free speech! yet Islamic scholarship the very best Islamic scholars said otherwise, and so does the Quran and hadiths.

however so i aint saying we gonna kill you for verbally attacking, but i am saying we aint gonna be friends nor are we allowed to be friends with such ppl, not even sit in the same room as them unless u happen to be refuting them.

heck how any muslim will be able to admit their "friends" with someone who attacks Islam is beyond me, would you be friends with someone who insults ur parents? nop! and Islam says u must love Allah and the prophet Muhammad more than your parents!

 

[wilberhum]

nop Islamic and western values cant co-exist, at least not in total .

anyone who attacks Islam whethor through physical means (attacking muslims and muslim holy sites) or verbally automatically becomes an enemy to Islam. you may get a few muslims who say no no no its okay to verbally attack Islam free speech! yet Islamic scholarship the very best Islamic scholars said otherwise, and so does the Quran and hadiths.

however so i aint saying we gonna kill you for verbally attacking, but i am saying we aint gonna be friends nor are we allowed to be friends with such ppl, not even sit in the same room as them unless u happen to be refuting them.

heck how any muslim will be able to admit their "friends" with someone who attacks Islam is beyond me, would you be friends with someone who insults ur parents? nop! and Islam says u must love Allah and the prophet Muhammad more than your parents!

Of course when someone takes a stance of no compromise and no tollorance there will be no coexistance.

 

[NobleMuslimUK]

Truly sad that the mufti would issue such a fatwa. May Allah guide the ummah, Ameen.

By the way the jews and christians are much far off following the ten commandments, in fact majority break them all the time.

 

[Cognescenti]

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.



Surah 9, verse 29.

So non-Muslims can save their skins by paying a tax to buy themselves a fourth class berth on the Muslim ship of state? Cool. Quite generous really. I feel better now.

 

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

Egypt is just a puppet state to America and Israel anyway so dont listen to them they arnt true Muslims like Iran Syria etc.

 

[wilberhum]

Egypt is just a puppet state to America and Israel anyway so dont listen to them they arnt true Muslims like Iran Syria etc.

So what is a "True Muslim"?
Are you a "True Muslim"?
If yes, I must assume a "True Muslim" wants every "Not Ture Muslim" killed.

 

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

Iran Syria Hizbollah Hamas They Are True Muslims.

 

[wilberhum]

Iran Syria Hizbollah Hamas They Are True Muslims.

That is one question.
But then fat weeney we know you are not a Muslim let a lone a "True Muslim".

You are just a sad little kid with a personality disorder.

For your own sake, seek help.

 

[Darkseid]

Iran Syria Hizbollah Hamas They Are True Muslims.

You must be the dumbest British windbag I have ever seen.

Those are all organizations and countries, not people.

And they aren't true muslims. True muslims don't kill innocent bystanders nor pick fights with people regardlessly

Also here are some other factors.

1) Iran is not a federal government. By not being a federalized country, it is not taking into the interest of Allah that the UEA and Malaysians were able to construct and therefore it is not muslim. Iran also has a lot of Bahai'i and Zoroaster people in the country and therefore is not truely muslim.

2) Hezbollah endangered the innocent people of Lebanon into participating into a confrontation with the highly socialpathic Israelis, for which they wish had never happened again.

3) Hamas has divided the Palestinian people and therefore insures that there will probably never again be a united Palestine nor will there ever be a fully independent Gaza Strip from Israel.

4) Syria is a Socialistic dictatorship and last time I checked most muslims proclaim socialism to the very enemy of Islam.

That is one question.
But then fat weeney we know you are not a Muslim let a lone a "True Muslim".

You are just a sad little kid with a personality disorder.

For your own sake, seek help.

And like what my Cascadian friend here has said, get some help for goodness sakes.

 

[Skywalker]

Truly sad that the mufti would issue such a fatwa. May Allah guide the ummah, Ameen.

Just out of curiosity, why do you think that brother?

Iran Syria Hizbollah Hamas They Are True Muslims

Errm...Iran are Shia, I know Syrian Muslims who don't know jack about Islam, Hesbollah are Shia as well, and some Hamas members are not as "nice" as they should be.

If you're talking about the leadership though, I guess you can say that they are acting Islamically in some aspects of their government, but I personally don't see any one their governments as "perfect" when it comes to following Islamic laws completely. May Allah guide them.

 

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

**** Off Wilberhum You Yank ****.

 

[ISLAMASWEENEY]

Hizbollah And Hamas Are Controlled By Iran And Syria Though.

 

[Darkseid]

Hizbollah And Hamas Are Controlled By Iran And Syria Though.

And the king of Saudi Arabia has proclaimed Shiite Islam to not be a true form of Islam.

 

[Darkseid]

You don't know, that is another completely different topic in itself, with a lot of confusion and controversy.

Excellent, I'm glad we've come to terms :smile:

It's a little concept called House Rules

The king of Saudi Arabia is the self-proclaimed protector of the Muslim faith by being the king of land encompassing Mecca and Medina.

 

[rav]

Hizbollah And Hamas Are Controlled By Iran And Syria Though.

Syria is a secular country. Hezbollah and Hamas contradict eachother theologicaly since Hamas is a primarily Sunni terrorist group, while Hezbollah is a primarily Shia terrorist group. Iran also holds by Shia' Islam, which Hamas and Wahhābīyya in Saudi Arabia hate; although they are all politcally in agreement about hating a certain group of people.

 

[Cognescenti]

Excellent, I'm glad we've come to terms :smile:

It's a little concept called House Rules

Great, that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but I currently favor of eschewing a tax to our Muslim overloards and buying weapons instead.

How would it be if European countries and the US instituted "house rules" for Muslims?

Don't answer that. We know what would happen.

 

[Darkseid]

But he's a skank...Nobody appointed him as the Khalifah of the Muslims.

Since when are kings, appointed? Honestly you would have to have a highly voice of authority in order for a king to be appointed. And who would that be?

He's just another stuck up monarch who's been spoilt with the wealth of the US Govt. and made to suck up to bush...

Protector of the Muslim faith? I don't think so.

I just said what he proclaims himself as and of course I know he really is a skank and an oppressive tyrant.

 

[Skywalker]

Since when are kings, appointed? Honestly you would have to have a highly voice of authority in order for a king to be appointed.

Um, he said "who appointed him as the Khalifa of the Muslims", not "who appointed him king." Caliphs in Islam are appointed through a democratic process.