Are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

[ummzayd]

MustafaMc, what you are saying is that Allah would not instruct Muslims to believe A and then to believe Not-A.

And of course, if one believes that the Quran is true that is a very reasonable argument. So, extending that, it would follow that if someone is seeing the Quran as teaching both A and Not-A that it must be the individual who is perceiving the Quran incorrectly.

Though off topic for this thread, it follows from what you have written --> Might I suggest that the same argument could be made with regard to the Bible. Many Muslims try to convince us Christians that the Bible is, among other things, corrupted because see in it certain contradictions. In other words they see it teaching both A and Not-A. But of course, if one believes that the Bible is true, if someone sees the Bible as teaching both A and Not-A that the individual is preceiving the Bible incorrectly.

As with so many other things where Muslims and Christians disagree, it begins and end with what one is willing or not willing to consider as the ultimate source of truth.

please see the first part of my above post, regarding the arabic words the qur'an uses when referring to the 'previous scriptures' as opposed to the arabic word used when giving instructions about the qur'an. there is no contradiction here. It is certainly an article of faith for Muslims to believe that God has sent previous scriptures, we have to believe that as God tells us to in the qur'an. However He (glorified be He) tells us to follow the qur'an.

peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

please see the first part of my above post, regarding the arabic words the qur'an uses when referring to the 'previous scriptures' as opposed to the arabic word used when giving instructions about the qur'an. there is no contradiction here.

And what did I say?

...it would follow that if someone is seeing the Quran as teaching both A and Not-A that it must be the individual who is perceiving the Quran incorrectly.

 

[ummzayd]

And what did I say?

you are not listening. we believe in previous scriptures sent by God, but we follow the qur'an. again, we believe that God sent prophets and messengers and scriptures before the qur'an (as the qur'an tells us), but we follow the qur'an (as the qur'an tells us to). The arabic word used in the quote so beloved of Grenville does not indicate study, learn, follow the previous scriptures. however when the qur'an speaks of itself as a scripture it says we should FOLLOW IT, learn from it and listen intently when it is recited, and so on. there is a difference in the arabic.

Is it clear now? I believe that previous scriptures were sent by God (as the qur'an tells me) and I also believe that the 'holy bible' on my bookshelf is full of errors (some of which the qur'an points out). There is no contradiction in that.

unfortunately Grenville thinks he is on to a good thing but his ignorance of the qur'an and the arabic language really shows him up. I would like to know whether Grace Seeker and Grenville have ever actually studied the qur'an or whether they just browse through the anti-Islam sites looking for what they think is ammunition against Islam. I would advise studying qur'an with a good tafseer and reflecting on its contents, as well as directing a prayer to your Creator for guidance, before presuming to criticise.

peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

you are not listening. we believe in previous scriptures sent by God, but we follow the qur'an. again, we believe that God sent prophets and messengers and scriptures before the qur'an (as the qur'an tells us), but we follow the qur'an (as the qur'an tells us to). The arabic word used in the quote so beloved of Grenville does not indicate study, learn, follow the previous scriptures. however when the qur'an speaks of itself as a scripture it says we should FOLLOW IT, learn from it and listen intently when it is recited, and so on. there is a difference in the arabic.

Is it clear now? I believe that previous scriptures were sent by God (as the qur'an tells me) and I also believe that the 'holy bible' on my bookshelf is full of errors (some of which the qur'an points out). There is no contradiction in that.

unfortunately Grenville thinks he is on to a good thing but his ignorance of the qur'an and the arabic language really shows him up. I would like to know whether Grace Seeker and Grenville have ever actually studied the qur'an or whether they just browse through the anti-Islam sites looking for what they think is ammunition against Islam. I would advise studying qur'an with a good tafseer and reflecting on its contents, as well as directing a prayer to your Creator for guidance, before presuming to criticise.

peace

I have an English Qur'an that I have read on my own, without the aid of a tafseer.


Why do you think that I was criticizing it? Why do you think I wasn't listening?

After your second post, I don't see what you object to in my statement????

People read materials all the time that they assume says one thing, while other people read it differently. I am acknolwedging that, at least from the Muslim perspective, should I read the Qur'an and believe that I find it to be making internally contradictory statements, that a Muslim would say that I have simply misunderstood what the Qur'an was saying. Hence your suggesting that I study it with a good tafseer.

And you and Grenville are the perfect example of that. As you say, Grenville thinks he is able to prove to you a certain point from the Qur'an, but I don't think he will every accomplish that, because while you may read the very same words, your understanding of what those words mean remains different. And how can he claim to understand those words better than you do? Of course, anyone can claim anything, but the chances of others agreeing with those claims is a completely different story.

 

[Walter]

Ummzayad:

I have not read any information on any anti-Islamic site or book. I have read the Qu’ran thrice (I have three copies) and continue to read it. I am currently reading the Tafsir and Hadiths (on line). I try to research information in an unbiased way because I want to know what is true.

I understand your point of view. It would be helpful to you if you would try to see the same thing from other perspectives.

Regards,
Grenville

 

[silkworm]

Grenville, I have my own Bible (King James Version) and I read it, although I am a Moslem, I don't find it offending except te S-n of G-d part.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Grenville, I have my own Bible (King James Version) and I read it, although I am a Moslem, I don't find it offending except te S-n of G-d part.

What is offensive about that? I didn't think that Muslims understood this phrase to mean anything more special than saying that we are all God's children.

 

[MustafaMc]

What is offensive about that? I didn't think that Muslims understood this phrase to mean anything more special than saying that we are all God's children.

The reference is of course to the claim of Jesus (as) being the Son of God. If one thinks outside the Christian "box" for just a moment one would see that it is denigrating to Allah (swt), the One God, to say that He has a son. We know beyond a doubt that Jesus (as) was the son of Mary, but in what sense is he the "Son of God"? I don't want to go through the description of how one "fathers" a son, but one can imagine that it is beneath the Dignity and Glory of Allah (swt) for that to apply to the conception of Jesus (as). In this sense it is offensive to Muslims to say that Jesus (as) is the "Son of A****".

 

[don532]

The reference is of course to the claim of Jesus (as) being the Son of God. If one thinks outside the Christian "box" for just a moment one would see that it is denigrating to Allah (swt), the One God, to say that He has a son. We know beyond a doubt that Jesus (as) was the son of Mary, but in what sense is he the "Son of God"? I don't want to go through the description of how one "fathers" a son, but one can imagine that it is beneath the Dignity and Glory of Allah (swt) for that to apply to the conception of Jesus (as). In this sense it is offensive to Muslims to say that Jesus (as) is the "Son of A****".

I have not followed the whole thread, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned before. Christians do not believe, nor does the Bible say, that God fathered a son by having physical relations with Mary as a human male would.

Although we disagree on the deity of Jesus, I think we agree such a human act by God would not be necessary to bring forth the birth of a being he chose to be in the world.

 

[believer]

Hi Everyone:

The Koran appears to suggest that Muslims should read the Books of the people who came before them - those people being Christians and Israelites. Since this information is contained in the Bible, are Muslims obligated to read the Bible?

Regards,
Grenville

Dear Grenville,

Peace be with you...

The Qur'an doesn't suggest for Muslims to read the Books of the people since the Qur'an deemed it unnecessary. Most of the contents of the old books were already described in brief and concise verses in the Qur'an.

The Qur'an can be likened to the Latest Memo from the Big Boss which supercedes all the other Memos distributed in the past. Therefore - all the older Memos or Testaments/ Scriptures are no longer the implementing command or rule. However, if you are seeking knowledge. It is Ok to read them. But if you are not ready or equiped with a strong foundation of your faith... it will be confusing.

first of all... I have read the OT and the NT cover to cover since my childhood to adult - like all my life. then, I have read the Qur'an 5 times this year... cover to cover. After this experience... I simply have lost the interest to be reading any other book except the Qur'an. It is a clearly updated, consistent, flawless, authoritative book. All of lifes mysteries are answered in the Qur'an.

don't take my word for it... You have to and need to Read it for yourself.

A true believer doesnt fear anything.... not even reading the Qur'an or the adulterated Bibles.

If you keep relying on quoted verses or claims by some figures.... you will never get the real picture.

It is like, seeing the latest Harry Potter Movie in the Trailer film... If you read it yourself, then it is like Seeing the whole uncut Movie in the Movie Theatre. You can never get the answers until you have been there yourself.

 

[MustafaMc]

I have not followed the whole thread, so please forgive me if this has been mentioned before. Christians do not believe, nor does the Bible say, that God fathered a son by having physical relations with Mary as a human male would.

So, in what sense is Jesus the "Son of God"? We agree that that God is not His own biological father (Jesus Son of God, yet fully God). The term Son of God in and of itself is incomprehensible. To better represent this Christian concept there needs to be a term for "God Incarnate" - perhaps Emmanuel.

Although we disagree on the deity of Jesus, I think we agree such a human act by God would not be necessary to bring forth the birth of a being he chose to be in the world.

Yes, we Muslims believe that Allah simply said, "Be!" and Jesus was created in the womb of Mary.

 

[believer]

Ummzayad:

I have not read any information on any anti-Islamic site or book. I have read the Qu’ran thrice (I have three copies) and continue to read it. I am currently reading the Tafsir and Hadiths (on line). I try to research information in an unbiased way because I want to know what is true.

I understand your point of view. It would be helpful to you if you would try to see the same thing from other perspectives.

Regards,
Grenville

Hi Grenville!

Peace be with you!

I am happy you are also reading the Qur'an... however... the best way to read the qur'an is after ablution... meaning performing wudu (a ritual of cleansing ones' self phsycially)... then saying the Al Fatihah the first chapter. This is to protect you from the Devil... All Muslims believe that the Devil is always on the prey of anyone opening the the Quran... they can make it hard for you to understand its' general context if you read it just like any other ordinary book. - Don't take my word for it... just try it and see the difference for yourself.

I would like to share with you Chapter Al'Imran

this is CHapter 3:59-n

59. Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; He said to him "Be", and he was.

60. THe Truth is from your Lord, so do not be among doubters.

61. Then whoever argues with you about it after this knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly together and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars among us.

62. Indeed, this is the true narration, And there is no deity except Allah. And indeed, Allah is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

63. But if they turn away, then indeed - Allah is knowing of the corrupters.

64. Say (Oh Muhhamad); "Oh People of the Scripture (that would be you - the Christians) come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah" But if they turn away, then say, " Bear witness that we are Muslims submitting to Him."

65. O People of the Scripture, WHY DO YOU ARGUE about Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Then will you not reason?

66. Here you are - those who have argued about that of which you have some knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows while you know not.

67. Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, A MUSLIM submitting to Allah. And he was not of the polytheists (those who asociate others with Allah).

68. indeed the most worthy of Abraham among the people are those who followed him in submission to Allah and this prophet Muhammad (RAW) and those who believe in this message. And Allah is the ally of the believers.

69. A Faction of the people of the scripture wish they could mislead you. But they do not mislead except themselves. and they percieve it not.

70. O people of the Scripture (... Christians), WHY DO YOU DISBELIEVE IN THE VERSES OF ALLAH while you Witness to their TRUTH?

71. O people of the Scripture (Christians), WHY DO YOU MIX THE TRUTH WITH FALSEHOOD and CONCEAL THE TRUTH WHILE YOU KNOW IT?

72. And a Faction of the People of the Scripture (Christians) say to each other, "Believe in that which was revealed to the Believers at the Beginning of the day and reject it at its end and perhaps they will return to us... or abandon their religion."

73. "And do not trust except those who follow your religion," Say, "Indeed, the True guidance is the Guidance of Allah. Do you fear lest someone be given knowledge like you were given or that they would thereby argue with you before your Lord?" Say, "Indeed, all bounty is in the hand of Allah - He grants it to whom He wills, And Allah is all-encompassing and Wise."

74. He selects for His Mercy whom He wills. And Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

75. And among the people of the Scripture (christians) is he who if you entrust him with great amount, he will return it to you. And among them is he who, if you entrust him with a single silver coin, he will not return it to you unless you are constantly standing over him. That is because they say, "There is no blame upon us concerning the unlearned." and They speak untruth about Allah while they know it.

76. But yes, whoever fulfills his commitment and fear Allah - then indeed, Allah loves those who fear Him.

77. Indeed, those who exchange the covenant of Allah and their own oaths for a small price will have no share in the Hereafter, and Allah will not speak to them or look at them on the Day of Ressurection, nor will He purify them; and they willhave painful torment.

78. And indeed there is among them a party who alter the Scripture with their tongues so you ma think it is from the Scripture, but it is not from the Scripture. and they say, "This is from Allah," but it is not from Allah. And they speak untruth about Allah while they know.

79. It is not for a human prophet that Allah should give him the Scripture and Authority and Prphethood and then he would say to the people, "Be Servants to me rather than Allah." but instead he would say. "Be pious scholars of the Lord because of what you have taught of the Scripture and because of what you have studied."

80. Nor could he order you to take the angels and prophets as lords, Would he order you to disbelief after you ave been Muslims (one who believes, surrenders and submits to Allah)?

81. And recall O people of the Scipture "christians", when Allah took the covenant of the prophets, saying "Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messengerconfirming what is with you, You Must Believe in him and Support him." ...,"Have you acknowledged and taken upon that My commandment?" They said, "We have acknowledged it." He said. "Then Bear witness, and I am with you among the witnesses."

82. And whoever turned away after that - they were the defiantly disobedient.

83. So is it other that the religion of Allah they desire, while to Him have submitted (all) those within the heavens and earth, willingly or by compulsion, and to Him they will be returned?

84. Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants (al Asbat), and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets form their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and We are Muslims (submitting) to Him."

85. And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never it will be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

I suggest you read the whole chapter...

It's really very enlightening.

Have to call the Adhan now... be back shortly.

 

[Grace Seeker]

So, in what sense is Jesus the "Son of God"? We agree that that God is not His own biological father (Jesus Son of God, yet fully God). The term Son of God in and of itself is incomprehensible. To better represent this Christian concept there needs to be a term for "God Incarnate" - perhaps Emmanuel.

Yes, we Muslims believe that Allah simply said, "Be!" and Jesus was created in the womb of Mary.

MustafaMc, you surprise me. Were you really under the impression that Christians believe that God came upon Mary in the same way that a man impregnates a woman?

I understand (though I don't agree) that Muslims believe that God has already created all human souls as pre-existant in heaven before they are given birth on earth. How/when does God place those souls in the sperm and egg cells in the mother's womb that come together to form a child? Is there not a bit of mystery to the how it happens, yet you know that it does happen. I think we have to allow for a similar sort of mystery with respect to the birth of the pre-existing "Son of God".

My own guess is that God created the person of Jesus in Mary's womb, perhaps in exactly the same way the Muslims understand it. And as he did so, the Son of God then chose to co-mingle** his nature with that of Jesus thereby becoming an incarnate human being. But that is only my hypothesis.

With respect to the incarnation, the scriptures tell us only that:
1) the Son of God was pre-existant to the incarnation. (John 1, Colossians 1, Hebrews 1, and Revelation 1)
2) the Holy Spirit is the means of conveyance of the presence of God in Mary's womb (Luke 1)
3) that Jesus is God dwelling among us in the flesh (John 1)
As far as the exact how/when that Mary came to be carrying Jesus in her womb, we don't know. But as she was still a virgin at the time of his birth, it seems fair to say that she didn't conceive Jesus in the normal fashion, not with Joseph and not with the Holy Spirit (who, being Spirit -- and sorry for being a tad graphic here -- would have no physically ability to impregnate anyone). The objections raised

I don't want to go through the description of how one "fathers" a son, but one can imagine that it is beneath the Dignity and Glory of Allah (swt) for that to apply to the conception of Jesus (as). In this sense it is offensive to Muslims to say that Jesus (as) is the "Son of A****".

I can understand how you would see them as offensive, but these objections just are not pertinent to the issue with respect to the conception of Jesus.


**-- Of course, I know that Muslims will find the idea of Allah co-mingling with humanity to be equally offensive as any other ideas you may have had as to how the incarnation occured.

 

[MustafaMc]

MustafaMc, you surprise me. Were you really under the impression that Christians believe that God came upon Mary in the same way that a man impregnates a woman?

No, that is not my impression of what Christians believe. I was merely trying to make a point about how the title "Son of God" cannot in any way be an accurate term. Now, I have an uncle that sometimes calls me "son" in addressing me, but I am not biologically decended from him. I am sure that he uses the term in showing affection and perhaps closeness, but it is not an accurate use of the term "son". My grandfathers have passed away, but if they used the term, it would be accurate since I have biologically decended from them.

I understand (though I don't agree) that Muslims believe that God has already created all human souls as pre-existant in heaven before they are given birth on earth. How/when does God place those souls in the sperm and egg cells in the mother's womb that come together to form a child? Is there not a bit of mystery to the how it happens, yet you know that it does happen. I think we have to allow for a similar sort of mystery with respect to the birth of the pre-existing "Son of God".

Yes, this is an exceedingly deep mystery as to the creation, existence and incarnation of the human soul.

My own guess is that God created the person of Jesus in Mary's womb, perhaps in exactly the same way the Muslims understand it. And as he did so, the Son of God then chose to co-mingle** his nature with that of Jesus thereby becoming an incarnate human being. But that is only my hypothesis.

**-- Of course, I know that Muslims will find the idea of Allah co-mingling with humanity to be equally offensive as any other ideas you may have had as to how the incarnation occured.

I am sorry, but I am having trouble in seeing how the Incorruptable can become comingled with the corruptable. I also can't imagine how the Creator and Sustainer of the universe can be tempted to worship Satan with the promise that "all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor" will be given to Him.

 

[Keltoi]

No, that is not my impression of what Christians believe. I was merely trying to make a point about how the title "Son of God" cannot in any way be an accurate term. Now, I have an uncle that sometimes calls me "son" in addressing me, but I am not biologically decended from him. I am sure that he uses the term in showing affection and perhaps closeness, but it is not an accurate use of the term "son". My grandfathers have passed away, but if they used the term, it would be accurate since I have biologically decended from them.

Yes, this is an exceedingly deep mystery as to the creation, existence and incarnation of the human soul.

I am sorry, but I am having trouble in seeing how the Incorruptable can become comingled with the corruptable. I also can't imagine how the Creator and Sustainer of the universe can be tempted to worship Satan with the promise that "all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor" will be given to Him.

Christ's ability to be tempted was exactly the point. While God Almighty cannot be tempted, although the OT tells us that some have tried, Jesus Christ also had a human nature. Christ felt all the temptations, pain, doubt, etc, as the rest of us. The fact that he did not give in to these emotions and temptations on any level whatsoever is due to His divine nature.

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15

 

[Yanal]

Yes once i was at the hospital for my brother and i saw the bible and i wanted to take it i took it and when i openend the first page i read a few things that were kinda against islam but i want to read the bible so can i but i promise i will not believe them so am i allowed i am asking because i do not see the answer of this young muslims question he wanted a straight answer i think and he got answers above expectations so can someone tell me in a yes or no answer please not like a whole broing article or lecture cuz i get tired of listening or reading

 

[Grace Seeker]

Christ's ability to be tempted was exactly the point. While God Almighty cannot be tempted, although the OT tells us that some have tried, Jesus Christ also had a human nature. Christ felt all the temptations, pain, doubt, etc, as the rest of us. The fact that he did not give in to these emotions and temptations on any level whatsoever is due to His divine nature.

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15

Sorry, I feel like we have hijacked this thread into a Christian theology discussion. Perhaps we should move it to one of the other threads. But in the meantime, I need to note one of my rare disagreements with Keltoi. I do not believe that the reason that Jesus did not give in to the devil's temptations had anything to do with his divine nature. I think that while he had a divine hature he experienced life, its infirmities, it hunger pains, and even (maybe especially) it temptations just as any other human does. And he learned to depend on God's strength rather than his own in order to face those things. I think that was the point, to show us humans that we to can do it because Jesus was able to do it.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yes once i was at the hospital for my brother and i saw the bible and i wanted to take it i took it and when i openend the first page i read a few things that were kinda against islam but i want to read the bible so can i but i promise i will not believe them so am i allowed i am asking because i do not see the answer of this young muslims question he wanted a straight answer i think and he got answers above expectations so can someone tell me in a yes or no answer please not like a whole broing article or lecture cuz i get tired of listening or reading

Yanal, many Muslims have read the Bible. We welcome you to do so as well. If you don't have one, I would even be happy to recommend a good choice of a translation for you. Do you prefer it in English or some other language?

 

[Yanal]

Sorry, I feel like we have hijacked this thread into a Christian theology discussion. Perhaps we should move it to one of the other threads. But in the meantime, I need to note one of my rare disagreements with Keltoi. I do not believe that the reason that Jesus did not give in to the devil's temptations had anything to do with his divine nature. I think that while he had a divine hature he experienced life, its infirmities, it hunger pains, and even (maybe especially) it temptations just as any other human does. And he learned to depend on God's strength rather than his own in order to face those things. I think that was the point, to show us humans that we to can do it because Jesus was able to do it.

Exactly what i ment dude he was just asking a simple question and this thread is being hijacked ahhhh run or else we are going to die :skeleton:
OFF TOPIC let's go to topic i think the person who started this thread proberly 1%he got his answer 99%off topic things get answered so i am hoping this thread closed

 

[MustafaMc]

Yes once i was at the hospital for my brother and i saw the bible and i wanted to take it i took it and when i openend the first page i read a few things that were kinda against islam but i want to read the bible so can i but i promise i will not believe them so am i allowed i am asking because i do not see the answer of this young muslims question he wanted a straight answer i think and he got answers above expectations so can someone tell me in a yes or no answer please not like a whole broing article or lecture cuz i get tired of listening or reading

If I remember correctly, Br. Yanal, you are quite young. Generally, younger people are more open minded and as a result also more impressionable. In reading the Bible you may not be able to discern the truth from the falsehood. Since there is a danger in being misguided by the falsehood, I advise you to not read the Bible.

My opinion is that the Quran is the final revelation from Allah and that it is exactly the message given to Prophet Muhammad. The New Testament is not the Injeel, the message given to Prophet Jesus. If you have read many hadith, you would know that even the gospels are not the revelation spoken by Jesus. These gospels are narrative stories about Jesus life on earth with a sprinkling of true revelation spoken by him. It is difficult to know what parts to believe and which to question.