I guess it's not just us

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metalted said:
so many reasons..... its stress relief mainly for me everyonce in awhile after a some long day of hard work and alot of stress sometimes you want to forget about your responsibilities for a while and have fun...
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I'd rather not have to depend on intoxicants to relieve stress. What's wrong with spending some quality time with the family and relieve stress that way?

Plus, the prophet (pbuh) told us to get married at an early age and with that comes another way of relieving stress. Yes, it could also be seen as something that you grow to depend on, but the difference here is that you're born with a dependecy and a desire for it instead of introducing it artificially due to social "norms".
 
Skywalker said:
I'd rather not have to depend on intoxicants to relieve stress. What's wrong with spending some quality time with the family and relieve stress that way?

Plus, the prophet (pbuh) told us to get married at an early age and with that comes another way of relieving stress. Yes, it could also be seen as something that you grow to depend on, but the difference here is that you're born with a dependecy and a desire for it instead of introducing it artificially due to social "norms".
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so you think that alcohol is an artificial dependency? I see your point its very much a part of civilization itself in my opinion, alcohol in its many forms was around since the beginings of civilization. I do agree with your prophet that some things like music dancing with people of the opposite sex, and alcohol can lead to bad things..

I think religion in a way is meant to be a guidence to civilization, morality is intended to keep civilization healthy.. if you drink to much you might end up doing something stupid and hurting yourself...excessive fornication can lead to the spread of disease. and both these things in excess i think can lead to the diminishment of wisdom and character and lead to selfishness.

It might be that its morality that is meant to keep us from going to far astray and becoming to selfish..All things in moderation in my opinion will not harm you.

I live in a tiny apartment far from my family and have little money to afford to take care of a wife and little time to date anyone. I wonder what do you do when your family or wife stress you out?
 
Malaikah said:
And I'm sure the people who die in car accidents because a drunkard was driving, or suffer abuse at the hands of an alcoholic/dunker person all 'choose' to die/suffer that way.:-\

i'm not sure you understood what i was trying to say. alcohol is an extremely socially destructive drug. it has been outlawed nationally before, called "prohibition". it didn't work - just like today with illegal drugs, people found ways to either make it or get it some other way and gangsters got rich from smuggling it.
my other point is that i can understand not drinking because it is against your religion and you want to obey god. but if the state could make it unavailable, you wouldn't have the choice to obey god because the state has already chosen for you. it's a fine point, but something to consider.
personally, i choose not to drink, but i really don't want the state dictating to me. (aside from the fact that it didn't work anyway).
i am against prohibition of any drug, though i don't use any of them.
my drug is coffee ice cream! it is very broadening. :giggling:


:sl:

Even worse, they might run you over, try to hit on you, act indecently in public (it isn't uncommon for idiots to run around naked at my uni under the influence of alcohol), embarrass people, abuse people, ruin peoples lives, and most annoying, ruin their liver and pancreas and then use MY tax money for treatment to something that should have never happened in the first place! :raging:
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peace.
 
also according to my religion Jesus turn water into wine for a wedding, so that says alot about what God thinks about alcohol. :) Gluttony is a sin, or excess of anything.
 
metalted said:
so you think that alcohol is an artificial dependency? I see your point its very much a part of civilization itself in my opinion, alcohol in its many forms was around since the beginings of civilization.
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Just because something has been around for centuries doesn't mean that it's natural. I've never drank an alcholic drink in my life and I don't have the slightest desire to drink. Sex on the other hand is a different story...hence one is a natually infused desire and the other is artificial.

I think religion in a way is meant to be a guidence to civilization, morality is intended to keep civilization healthy.. if you drink to much you might end up doing something stupid and hurting yourself...excessive fornication can lead to the spread of disease. and both these things in excess i think can lead to the diminishment of wisdom and character and lead to selfishness.
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I don't think people understand just how bad selfishness is. I personally see it as the ultimate evil in this world. And fornication has a lot more disadvantages than just spreading disease.

metalted said:
I live in a tiny apartment far from my family and have little money to afford to take care of a wife and little time to date anyone. I wonder what do you do when your family or wife stress you out?
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I'll tell you right now that I don't need no bottle to keep me feelin' good. How about friends? If not there's meditation, sports, ... and we Muslims have one really cool invention, it's called prayer ;) Eases the mind and refreshes the body.
 
Just because something has been around for centuries doesn't mean that it's natural. I've never drank an alcholic drink in my life and I don't have the slightest desire to drink. Sex on the other hand is a different story...hence one is a natually infused desire and the other is artificial.
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I guess I can agree, but what about the plants that grow from the ground that intoxicate?

I don't think people understand just how bad selfishness is. I personally see it as the ultimate evil in this world. And fornication has a lot more disadvantages than just spreading disease.
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I agree with you on selfishness, and yes there are more disadvantages to like having children out of wedlock and everything..

I'll tell you right now that I don't need no bottle to keep me feelin' good. How about friends? If not there's meditation, sports, ... and we Muslims have one really cool invention, it's called prayer ;) Eases the mind and refreshes the body.
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christians invented prayer before the muslims have :).
I guess I see your point I like all those things sometimes drinking with friends too.. its not against my religion to drink, its against it to waste and be excessive with such things.
 
snakelegs said:
but if the state could make it unavailable, you wouldn't have the choice to obey god because the state has already chosen for you. it's a fine point, but something to consider.
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Thanks for clarifying, but I don't think it matters. It is like saying the only reason a murdered didn't kill was because guns are illegal and so he couldn't get his hands on one. I doubt anyone would want to give the person a chance to kill.

Alcohol harms others, not only the drinker, so it doesn't matter that the only reason they don't do it is because it is illegal, as long as others aren't harmed.
 
Well its not like america is ever going to ban alcohol so its not like you can do anything about it.. i see you mention yellow stone so i assume you are from wyoming?

beer is as much a part of america as hot dogs and baseball.
 
north_malaysian said:
and why people wanna get totally drunk and did stupid things... like urinating in the public, cursing , making themselves look stupid....
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you are right... they can't control themselves. It is dangerous for a lady to get drunk, you will never know what will happen.
 
Malaikah said:
Thanks for clarifying, but I don't think it matters. It is like saying the only reason a murdered didn't kill was because guns are illegal and so he couldn't get his hands on one. I doubt anyone would want to give the person a chance to kill.

Alcohol harms others, not only the drinker, so it doesn't matter that the only reason they don't do it is because it is illegal, as long as others aren't harmed.
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ok - you do make a valid point.
i just hate the state telling me what to do!
and of course, the main thing is that it's been tried and it doesn't work - people always find a way to get around it, and it usually entails even more socially detrimental acts, such as stealing (because the illegality makes it cost more).
 
syilla said:
you are right... they can't control themselves. It is dangerous for a lady to get drunk, you will never know what will happen.
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even the prettiest woman can be VERY UGLY when she's very drunk...

I had a friend who dont drink but love clubbing... one day he asked me about something happened to him while clubbing..

He said one night he went clubbing and while dancing, a western man came to him and asked him whether he can kiss my friend. Being open-minded, sporting and up for fun.... he did "french kiss" with this guy and suddenly he can taste the liquor on his tongue... he excused himself and went to the toilet and washed his mouth thoroughly....

He asked me, whether he got a sin for having liquor inside his mouth but he didnt swallow it.

I answered... so "french kiss" with a guy is not a sin then?
 
north_malaysian said:
even the prettiest woman can be VERY UGLY when she's very drunk...

I had a friend who dont drink but love clubbing... one day he asked me about something happened to him while clubbing..

He said one night he went clubbing and while dancing, a western man came to him and asked him whether he can kiss my friend. Being open-minded, sporting and up for fun.... he did "french kiss" with this guy and suddenly he can taste the liquor on his tongue... he excused himself and went to the toilet and washed his mouth thoroughly....

He asked me, whether he got a sin for having liquor inside his mouth but he didnt swallow it.

I answered... so "french kiss" with a guy is not a sin then?
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a man asked to kiss your friend, another man? i am confused.
 
Hahahaha I am sorry but you started off with 'even the prettiest woman,' and then tell a story about two men kissing, and I think it might be cultural or whatever, but then he talks about how the sinful part would be the alcohol in his mouth... very confusing for me in my culture...

Straight men would never kiss in america, or even show that much affection to each other at all! We are very homophobic, but then europeans, kiss like as greetings and sign of affection so...i dont know ... to me in my religion its more a sin to kiss a guy then to have alcohol in your mouth. although I dont judge people, its not my job, God does the judgements.
 
north_malaysian said:
I am a non-drinker..... and have a question,

Why people wanna get drunk?
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in the long ago, long ago when i was young, i used to drink. i started because it dulled my physical pain. then i continued and began to get drunk and it helped my depression. one day i realized that getting drunk only made me more depressed in the end! so i stopped, and somehow i have found it difficult to work up a really good depression since.
(of course, not every one who drinks, drinks to get drunk - but i did eventually, so now i simply avoid it all together.)
i think usually it is to escape or to attempt to fill a hole in their soul.
a hole in the soul - i'm a poet! :giggling:
 
metalted said:
Hahahaha I am sorry but you started off with 'even the prettiest woman,' and then tell a story about two men kissing, and I think it might be cultural or whatever, but then he talks about how the sinful part would be the alcohol in his mouth... very confusing for me in my culture...

Straight men would never kiss in america, or even show that much affection to each other at all! We are very homophobic, but then europeans, kiss like as greetings and sign of affection so...i dont know ... to me in my religion its more a sin to kiss a guy then to have alcohol in your mouth. although I dont judge people, its not my job, God does the judgements.
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lol i don't think so its culture...

Malaysian guys usually don't do that...

Its just the ignorant and easy influence people do that.
 

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