Are morals derived from religion/God??

[ranma1/2]

but just to humor you.

you will get a variety of answers.

some may not care. if they are dumb enough to be on the tracks and not being careful they get what they deserve.

some will try to save 5 some will prefer not to cause the death of any and let the 5 die.

there are a variety of answers and they typically are based off of the cultureal and social upbringing.

 

[Md Mashud]

think it is worth remembering that morals are hard wired into our brains from birth, regardless of ethnicity, culture or religion.

Is is a scientifically false, for the information of everyone.

Morals are not hard wired. People sometimes think things like empathy/sympathy have to do with natural being, but this is far from truth. Its the way you have been brought up/surround which makes you gain these qualities.

As for if morals were derived from religion - Looking at ancient history, it could be seen as though this is indeed truth. Some even predict that if religious was never in existance in human civilisation, that greed would have created a "survival of the fittest" kind of civilisation, which would be scary now wouldn't it. Some studies believe that, the fear of a God, had affected peoples way of life, being the only means in which people should care for strangers and actually self-account for their deeds. Kind of makes sense in terms of self-experience, alot of "evil thoughts" or deeds which I had considered, I had to not do in fear of having to account for it with God, so Its not a non-deciding factor. Religion does help keep ones ego/elitist attitudes at bay, whenever you even get the slightest hint you are applying those characteristics, you automatically tend to correct it rather then letting it happen, so I can say religion has made me a better person.

 

[ranma1/2]

....As for if morals were derived from religion - Looking at ancient history, it could be seen as though this is indeed truth. Some even predict that if religious was never in existance in human civilisation, that greed would have created a "survival of the fittest" kind of civilisation, which would be scary now wouldn't it. Some studies believe that, the fear of a God, had affected peoples way of life, being the only means in which people should care for strangers and actually self-account for their deeds. Kind of makes sense in terms of self-experience, alot of "evil thoughts" or deeds which I had considered, I had to not do in fear of having to account for it with God, so Its not a non-deciding factor. Religion does help keep ones ego/elitist attitudes at bay, whenever you even get the slightest hint you are applying those characteristics, you automatically tend to correct it rather then letting it happen, so I can say religion has made me a better person.

how? if we look at history it would appear that culture, society and upbringing is what makes morals. also its important to point out the religions often were or are a reflection of the culture. "if not and there was one true gos then they would likely be the same"
and i think most people that dont do Evil do to fear of a god need help.
I dont do "evil" for many reasons. the golden rule for one. laws. its in general not benefitial. empathy etc... fear of a god has nothing to do with it.

 

[Md Mashud]

Not that kind of evil, like murder or somthing :S, lighter stuff ^^, muuch lighter stuff. Also, theres economical incentives at play when it comes to "behaving" - but meh thats another long essay to write .

Culture/society is a product of previous things in my opinion. I think we would have to look deeper in the history of the early civilisations to come to more conclusion - I guess maybe I'll read more books on it.

 

[ranma1/2]

Not that kind of evil, like murder or something :S, lighter stuff ^^, much lighter stuff. Also, theres economical incentives at play when it comes to "behaving" - but meh thats another long essay to write .

Culture/society is a product of previous things in my opinion. I think we would have to look deeper in the history of the early civilizations to come to more conclusion - I guess maybe I'll read more books on it.

I didn't say you were. But the fact that the only reason you may not steal or be rude or what ever you might want to do is because you think god will punish you seems scary to me. Even if we lived in a land with out laws i would still act a certain way due to how i was brought up.

Culture and society is a product of what? Not religion. Religion couldn't even form without a society for it to be in. And in order for societies to survive there would have to be certain rules,laws, or actions that keep living in a society benefitial. The basics of not stealing, killing etc... would be essential for these social groups.

 

[islamic]

In the Bible there are a lot of stories without moral on them, meaning, they are immoral stories. So, from the Bible, from Christianity, moral can not be derived!
In the case of Islam, we have the Holy Quran and the Hadiths of the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) with the greatest moral lessons on them.

 

[ranma1/2]

how do you decide if something is moral or not?

 

[InToTheRain]

how do you decide if something is moral or not?

We use Qur'an and Examples of our Prophet(SAW) AKA Sunnah

 

[ranma1/2]

We use Qur'an and Examples of our Prophet(SAW) AKA Sunnah

but how?

Does it litterally say..

This is moral..
this isnt.

And what did you do before you read those books?

 

[InToTheRain]

but how?

Does it litterally say..

This is moral..
this isnt.

you could say that.

And what did you do before you read those books?

I don't understand this question? :O do you mean about us performing abolution? that is something we must do before reading Qur'an.

 

[ranma1/2]

you could say that.

I don't understand this question? :O do you mean about us performing absolution? that is something we must do before reading Qur'an.

It is a very valid question.

If god does not tell you "this is moral" then how do you decide its moral?

And before you read the books were you immoral?

If not where did these morals come from?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

It is a very valid question.

If god does not tell you "this is moral" then how do you decide its moral?

And before you read the books were you immoral?

If not where did these morals come from?

it's the question of cleaniness. Muslims clean their bodies ( wash face , hand , legs etc ) before entering to mosque .

It's a must to do the wadu/abolution as it is a command of God , mentioned in Quran.

[5.6]


O you who believe!


when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces
and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;


and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves)

and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith,



Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.

Normally we clean ourself also before touching the holy Quran. But recently i heard lecture of Dr. Zakir Naik .

He said , it's not a must to do so before reading Quran . The verse mentioned in Quran tells about the Quran that is preserved in heaven ....angels who are always clean can touch that Quran.

 

[InToTheRain]

It is a very valid question.

Yes it is a valid question. I didn't understand it is all

If god does not tell you "this is moral" then how do you decide its moral??

1)We have been given something called Fitrah.

[PIE]Fitrah: Inborn Natural Predisposition
Yasien Mohamed

In attempting a definition of ‘fitrâh’, I give an exposition of its linguistic and religious meaning. The religious understanding of fitrah is based on the positive interpretation of fitrah…

Suffice it to say that linguistic and positive religious explanations have one thing in common: both define fitrah as an inborn natural predisposition which cannot change, and which exists at birth in all human beings. What makes our religious understanding positive is that it not only acknowledges fitrah as a natural predisposition, but also one which is inclined towards right action and submission to Allâh, the One God.

After discussing the implications for human responsibility, I compare, for the benefit of Western readers, the Islamic concept of original goodness with the Christian concept of original sin. I argue that the doctrine of original sin, from an Islâmic point of view, cannot be reconciled with the notion of Divine mercy nor the human responsibility. Since the doctrine of original sin features significantly in the Christian concept of human nature, and as Islâm and Christianity are the world’s largest revealed religions, this aspect of their creeds presents an interesting contrast, well worth investigating.
[/PIE]

2) We have to reason and use Logic. If for example something is wrong with your PS3, the person who can best diagnose the Problem and provide a sollution is the peson who made the PS3. Therefore God, Our creator, is the best source for sollutions to our problems when it come to all issues. If we didn't have revelations it would be a different story but since we have these revelations we should consider it.

3) If what's Moral and Immoral is left to every individual then the frictions caused due to Moral misconduct would be ceaseless as it is today.

For example:
We have Islamic nations where they know the Laws of God and do not enforce it fully, putting in their own self made Laws. And we have the Western Nations who sincerely want to help an Individual but are enforcing man made Laws, but due to their sincerety the Victim finds some Solace.
In both cases we have Injustice which doesn't help stop the problem or from producing further victims.

And before you read the books were you immoral??

If not where did these morals come from?

It came from Fitrah and also from the preservation of what was learnt from the Prophets that were sent to every nation from the time of the first man Adam(AS) to the time of Mohammad(SAW). And Mohammad(SAW) finalised it for us.

 

[ranma1/2]

Sorry i may have been unclear.

before you became Muslim.

How did you act?

Were you a immoral being?

Did you run rampant killing, stealing, raping etc...?

Even if this was only as a kid.

 

[ranma1/2]

Salaam/peace;




it's the question of cleaniness. Muslims clean their bodies ( wash face , hand , legs etc ) before entering to mosque .

It's a must to do the wadu/abolution as it is a command of God , mentioned in Quran.

[5.6]


O you who believe!


when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces
and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;


and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves)

and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith,



Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.

Normally we clean ourself also before touching the holy Quran. But recently i heard lecture of Dr. Zakir Naik .

He said , it's not a must to do so before reading Quran . The verse mentioned in Quran tells about the Quran that is preserved in heaven ....angels who are always clean can touch that Quran.

huh? did you quote the the wrong person? im not sure how this relates.

 

[InToTheRain]

Sorry i may have been unclear.

before you became Muslim.

How did you act?

Were you a immoral being?

Did you run rampant killing, stealing, raping etc...?

Even if this was only as a kid.

I beleive those questions were answered in my previous post.
Pay particular attention to the Fitrah definition and that there always existed in every nation from the Beginning of mankind Adam(AS) till the time of Mohammad(SAW) prophets who enjoined good and forbade evil. Therefore any Good I had, even before I was practising Islam was from God and through what little was preserved from the Prophets messages from the Past. And any moral miconduct on my part were due to my deviation from the Path adviced by God through his Prophets and massengers for our own good. However even If I were unaware of the Message from God, I still have Fitrah which is from God to decide that which is right and incline towards it.

So in Summary, Any good we have is from God and any evil is from our own deviation from the Message of God and the Fitrah.

 

[Md Mashud]

I didn't say you were. But the fact that the only reason you may not steal or be rude or what ever you might want to do is because you think god will punish you seems scary to me. Even if we lived in a land with out laws i would still act a certain way due to how i was brought up.

Culture and society is a product of what? Not religion. Religion couldn't even form without a society for it to be in. And in order for societies to survive there would have to be certain rules,laws, or actions that keep living in a society benefitial. The basics of not stealing, killing etc... would be essential for these social groups.

Well actually, I want to expand my previous post.

Humans, are flawed/greedy by nature and need fear to not do things. If you want proof? Look, every country has laws that humans must abide by or will get severe punishment. This itself is a fear. If humans did not need fear not to do bad - laws would never have been made to begin with

God fear, is much better in that nothing goes unseen, so people will not attempt crime with intention they are unlikely to get caught - which is a huge problem atm. The feeling of self-accountability having to take place is quite a scary thing indeed.

To say fear of God being needed is just over the top - is like saying a country should not have laws!

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

huh? did you quote the the wrong person? im not sure how this relates.

ooopsss sorry , i thought u asked about abolution

ok , may be these are related verses

And certainly We raised in every nation an apostle saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan.

So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due;


therefore travel in the land, then see what was the.end of the rejecters

[16.36]


And every nation had an apostle;

so when their apostle came, the matter was decided between them with justice and they shall not be dealt with unjustly. [10.47]

And certainly We sent (apostles) before you among the nations of yore [15.10]


God send Prophets (pbut) to each nation . So , people knew about Do's & Dont's

 

[ranma1/2]

good, you had me confused there for a moment.

Now as i have asked before.
Were you an immoral being before you read the quran?
If not how did you aquire your morals?
Did your family teach them to you?

 

[Md Mashud]

Would you agree if murder was not illegal - we would have a sharp rise?

Would you agree if stealing was not illegal - their would be some mad looting going on?

Would you agree if vandalism was not illegal - that alot of teenage kids will be having a fun time?

My point being that, do you think, humans can naturally - using this "derived" morale from whatever social, or, as some people believe, humans by nature tend to care for people and wish to treat others as they would like to be treated (ahem..)

There would be total chaos - Infact, I shouldn't ask you the question - because if the laws being their made no difference they wouldn't be their to begin with.

Secondly, if the laws were their just as a guideline for humanity - without strong repurcussion if you do not follow them - do you think it would be good or bad for community? I hope you think the latter...

So as you can see, having Quran/God be someone who you fear from doing wrong is perfectly fine. Hell, its definatly better than relying on you sticking to the law - not saying its not possible - but its less effective for a fact than one who truly believes in God.

My point is, people see religion as a dictator on life - Why can't they accept that humans need guidance, and prevention of anything that can lead to evil? People are willing to rely on people to make rules and punishment - surely it can't be far from normal if we wish to take ours from God?

Some people underestimate, the writings in the Quran and hadith. It has, the solutions, to all problems in life - not just for the 700AD, but for all future generations. Alot of people can't swallow it because of the prevention over cure methodolgy. At first, it does seem like maybe its restriction of freedom, but if you think of it economically and logically, you can see the long term benefits of them, and judging human behaviour it makes 100% sense.

Some of the solutions - are not as clear cut for the disbeliever, and people see it as unfair treatment. Anyone know why men can marry more than 1 women and women can't do vice versa? Their is a surplus of women, in the World. If, if it came to it, it is very possible theirs not enough men to marry for the women, which is a problem in some areas in the world already - especially with the homosexuality spreading. So, this wasn't made for unjust purposes - but a real term solution. Its not exactly easy marrying more than 1 women, its hard work and you would be accounted if not treated them equally (well you won't be judged on emotion).

This is just one of, every solution to mankind - the big ones, even some of the small ones. Its their but unless you see what it has, you would be truly amazed. They have reasons why women must be covered - its not because us men are evil!, heck if we was maybe we would force them to stay uncovered to fullfill our pervertous nature? - Why we can't drink alcohol? Why would someone ban this item if it message of Islam was never real and just to make some men happy, I don't see giving up drinking being fun living? - Why would they permit sex before marriage if the religion was fake -, and so fourth - if you read up on it, its nothing less than the laws which are manmade, except superior in that it would destroy the problem instead of unsuccessfully curing one and creating more problems. After you stomach it all in, its impossible to convince oneself that this is the words, the solutions of an illiterate man, or a greedy liar, or a mad man or a man who is in it for his benefit! So yes, we believe its God's word and we will follow it as we know that God will always have better solutions for men, that he created, then men themselves.

I hope you get what Im getting at anyway.