Muslims’ attitude towards non-Muslims.

[Inquisitive]

I came across a fatwa that was given on going to the funeral of a non muslim. I find the answer to be very reasonable and accurate. Take the time to read it. Here is the link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503544150&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

 

[islamic]

[...] Narrated Al-Musaiyab:
When Abu Talib was in his death bed, the Prophet went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Prophet said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, an expression I will defend your case with, before Allah." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, " I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then the following Verse was revealed:--

"It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (9.113)

The other Verse was also revealed:-- "(O Prophet!) Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will ......." (28.56) Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 223

sister, you give a hadith and ayah from the Quran and I think you didn't understood it good. I told you to

Read the ayah good, and pay attention to the context of the situation and ayah revealing.

but again i think you didn't understand.

Look, the prophet went there with hope that this Abu Talib will leave the religion that he had, and accept Islam. The prophet went there with intention to save this person from Hell fire. But, he didn't want to turn from that religion of Abdul Muttalib and he died in that religion.
The prophet didn't went in this Abu Talib funeral as we can see from the hadith.

 

[KAding]

Excellent thread with some useful links!

The lesson here is you really can't judge a whole religion based on one website, let alone one ruling.

 

[ummzayd]

sister, you give a hadith and ayah from the Quran and I think you didn't understood it good. I told you to but again i think you didn't understand.

Look, the prophet went there with hope that this Abu Talib will leave the religion that he had, and accept Islam. The prophet went there with intention to save this person from Hell fire. But, he didn't want to turn from that religion of Abdul Muttalib and he died in that religion.
The prophet didn't went in this Abu Talib funeral as we can see from the hadith.

Abu Talib was the beloved uncle of Rasoolullah (pbuh), he was like a father to him. which hadith have you found that says Rasoolullah didn't go to the funeral?

 

[tomtomsmom]

Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan from where you got the source I'm sure he was talking about that kind of non-muslims, like you and Ali Sina, meaning .. those who want to attack Islam and everything related to Islam. So, he is considering you kaafir, he is talking for someone like you, so I agree with him about people like you. I agree with him.
So, no friendship with them, no respect for them, no attending their funeral, and I will go advanced and say: "for sure I will make him shorter for one head" (this is my opinion).
Now, Allah we love most, more from anything .. and we can not tolerate and show respect for someone who says the most monstrous thing about him, like you will not respect the one who will swear your mother.
Read you tomorrow, don't hurry with the answer

Judgmental much????? I must say, I have a real problem with your posts. It is not your place to judge and say so and so is a kaafir! You have no idea what is in another persons heart. That is Gods job to judge. Not yours or anyone else who wants to call someone a kaafir!!!!!!!

 

[seeker_of_ilm]

I came across this Fatwaa on the same site:-

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2278&ln=eng

So as you can see, this scholar, holds a different opinion in regards to this matter.

 

[Karina]

I came across this Fatwaa on the same site:-

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2278&ln=eng

So as you can see, this scholar, holds a different opinion in regards to this matter.

I don't understand - if someone went to scholar 1 (Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan) for advice, he will get the answer which seems to be the subject of much debate.

However, if that person went to the scholar mentioned above (Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid) then they would get a different answer.

However:

Question:
Can a Muslim visit a sick kaafir and attend his funeral?

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah was asked about Muslim people who have Christian neighbours – is it permissible for a Muslim to visit a Christian if he gets sick, or to attend his funeral if he dies? Is there any sin on a Muslim who does these things, or not?

He replied:

Praise be to Allaah the Lord of the Worlds. He should not attend his funeral, but visiting him when he is sick is fine, because this may serve an interest, namely opening his heart to Islam. But then if he dies as a kaafir, he will deserve Hell, hence the prayers should not be offered for him. And Allaah knows best.



Al-Fataawa al-Kubra, 3/6.

Source: http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=12718&ln=eng&txt=kaafir funeral

What is the correct answer to Muslims? Why is it so confusing, when all these answers come from the very same website?

Surely there must only be one answer. No wonder everyone is so confused and giving different answers!?! :hiding:

 

[Muhammad]

and Greetings,

Following from seeker_of_ilm's post, it shows that if you don't see the logic or agree with one answer on a website, it doesn't mean that the whole website is void and useless. It has nothing to do with "Salafism" or 'Salafees".

Islamqa is actually quite a comprehensive and reliable site as it quotes from scholars adhering to the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh), and it uses authentic sources based on the Qu'ran and Sunnah, and other reliable contemporary scholarly opinions. References are provided where appropriate in the responses. Many other sites do not do this and many of them use answers from doubtful sources.

It could be that it comes down to context, but whatever is the case, the point to bear in mind is not to be so quick to judge others and assert our own opinions, especially over those who have more knowledge than we have. When something doesn't agree with our logic or seems to go against our personal opinions, we should investigate and seek the answer patiently before rushing to pass verdicts on someone else's referenced answer or disregarding their statements which could turn out to be true.

Regarding the actual issue at hand, I am quite sure it has been discussed elsewhere. Perhaps wilberhum could mention the thread which he got it from? Nevertheless, there are many aspects of Islam to demonstrate its respect for all human life and the kindness it teaches towards non-Muslims.

 

[جوري]

^^^
Jazka Allah for that.. the sad thing that some Muslims don't understand with that linear style thinking.. is that 'ad'deen mo3amala' religion is also about relations-- if it were about simply an admonition, someone might kindly then point me as to why the prophet sala Allah 3lyhi waslaam, went to visit his Jewish Neighbor, yes, the same neighbor that would leave excrements by his door every morning, just to make sure he wasn't ill?
After all he was a kaffir and we are not to be friends with kuffar, or pay them respect?..

 

[Muhammad]

What is the correct answer to Muslims? Why is it so confusing, when all these answers come from the very same website?

Surely there must only be one answer. No wonder everyone is so confused and giving different answers!?! :hiding:

Sometimes scholars differ in their opinions on certain matters. A person should accept that which appears to have the strongest evidence. But it should not be used as a source of division and confusion - rather people should remain silent when they don't know something and allow those who have knowledge to speak, otherwise they will only increase the confusion.

 

[Seeker_of_truth]

Islam QA site only uses Fatwas from Sheikh Bin Baz. I also heard we are suppose to show enemity towards the kaffirs but depends on the situations.

 

[Woodrow]

I don't understand - if someone went to scholar 1 (Shaykh Sulaymaan ib nNaasir al-‘Alwaan) for advice, he will get the answer which seems to be the subject of much debate.

However, if that person went to the scholar mentioned above (Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid) then they would get a different answer.

However:


Source: http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=12718&ln=eng&txt=kaafir funeral

What is the correct answer to Muslims? Why is it so confusing, when all these answers come from the very same website?

Surely there must only be one answer. No wonder everyone is so confused and giving different answers!?! :hiding:

Quite simply, while todays scholars may be very highly educated and do know the Qur'an and the sunnah and the Hadith. they are not prophets and can only speak from their own views. Personal opinions do become part of their words.

The fault is not with Islam, the fault is with us. another problem is often a scholar will be speaking for the people in his own culture and immediate neighborhood. Anyone of these answers can be correct depending on the rest of the story and the particular circumstances. For these reasons it is best not to view any online scholar as being infallible or speaking for all Muslims in all places at all times. Inline scholars are a very valuable resource for find general concerns, but as a rule a local Scholar or Imam is the best resource for an individual.

If you do use the online resources, do not be satisfied with the first you read, read as many opinions as you can and do your best to evaluate each. Look not just for who you agree with, check out their sources of information.

Right now the preponderance of evidence is that it is not haram to attend a non-Muslim funeral, provided it is not done as a religious function. In other words it is haram to attend if our intent is to pray. If our intent is to simply visit a person for a final time, being no different than visiting them while they were alive, the funeral should pose no problem.

Now in some parts of the world it can very well be true that the non-Muslim community is an avid enemy of Islam and in that situation it would probably be haram to go to one of their funeral's as that would be giving comfort to the enemy.

 

[Karina]

Sometimes scholars differ in their opinions on certain matters. A person should accept that which appears to have the strongest evidence. But it should not be used as a source of division and confusion - rather people should remain silent when they don't know something and allow those who have knowledge to speak, otherwise they will only increase the confusion.

I can see where you're coming from, but surely some Muslims view a single scholar's reply on such a reputable website as being the only answer they need??

And in the case of the matter being discussed, there really is a 50/50 split in the possible answers - yes, it is permissable, or no it is not.... ?

And we see above three responses, each differing.

Do you mean that the person with the question would need to take their own initiative on whether or not the scholar is giving them substantial evidence? I thought the scholar was to be trusted and respected, and surely if they are to be questioned, this is not exactly trust and respect?

Sorry for rambling on, I just don't understand that's all....

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Islam QA site only uses Fatwas from Sheikh Bin Baz. I also heard we are suppose to show enemity towards the kaffirs but depends on the situations.

the prophet hardly ever showed enmity towards the kafirs, rather he was extremely tolerant, even to the prisoner of wars , the worst of kafirs abu jahl, even to these he was tolerant!


i hope that sheds some light on that misconception

 

[Trumble]

I genuinely don't understand the need to rely on 'scholars' in such matters. As with scholars in any other field they are prone to error, bias, and disagreement with each other.

Surely those who do believe in God also believe He gave them the Qur'an (or Bible) to read and a mind of their own to reason with? Or you could always just 'ask' through prayer and do what you think God tells you?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Surely those who do believe in God also believe He gave them the Qur'an (or Bible) to read and a mind of their own to reason with?

greetings trumble i hope you are well .

Yes we can read the Quran and get guidance from it, but for the ambiguous bits of the quran we need a scholar, surely that makes sense?

Or you could always just 'ask' through prayer and do what you think God tells you?

well God tells us to do it all through Quran and hadith, the guidance we can ask for, but divine inspiration ended with Muhammad sallallahi alaihi wasallaam, however divine guidance carries on til the end

 

[wilberhum]

To all:
Thank you for all your responses. The almost universal disagreement of the view from the Shaykh is quite gratifying. Below I have tried to respond to each and everyone who participated in the discussion.
Again, I do want to thank you all.
Peace Wilber
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodrow,
As always, wisdom. No condemnation. Your alternate reference seems like what a reasonable and pious interpretation.

MustafaMc,
It’s good to see that you don’t agree. I like the fact that you have an open mind. In my opinion, we all have a concenious(SP). It will tell us what is right and wrong. Isn’t doing what is right, how we should live?

Aamirsaab,
I was disappointed that you seem to “lack knowledge” to comment on if it is “permissible to show that towards a kaafir”. But thank you for your response on #2.
Ummzayd
You have good advice for all of us. Thank you.

~Sam~
I’m with you. I would have o show the love and respect for my mother.

NYCmuslim
I agree. I think the Sheik is being very extreme in his view and we should show respect to everyone who deserves it, as not all do.

Umma Wasat
Thanks for your comment.

IbnAbdulHakim
Thanks for the advice. Be assured I don’t take anything as a “main concensus for all the muslims”. Muslims are far too diverse a group to have many “main consensus”.

Inquisitive
Another reasonable source, thank you.

Karina
As you, I also think it is a privilege& honor to be present at as a guest at anyone’s celebration.
Different answers to the same question are truly confusion. I guess you will always have that kind of problem when there is not “One Final” source of interpretation.

Snake,
Thanks for another source.

PA,
A reasonable approach. Thanks.
Also, thinks for attending to the “Mental” child.

KAding
Good advice.

Tomtomsmom
I too have a problem with islamic’s posts. But then I have a problem with bigots.

seeker_of_ilm
Another source of wisdom, thank you.

Muhammad
Some words of wisdom and some I agree with.
The thread that originally presented the link was “Attending Places of Worship of Other Faiths” #50.

Trumble
I agree.

Again, thanks, Wilber

 

[Trumble]

greetings trumble i hope you are well .

Yes we can read the Quran and get guidance from it, but for the ambiguous bits of the quran we need a scholar, surely that makes sense?

Yes, and no. I can accept that, say, regarding particular points of Sharia law but when it comes to moral issues I would have thought the direct Word of God, combined with the reasoned interpretation of the person directly concerned, is more likely to come up with the 'right' answer. That would be the approach most Christians in my experience would take, and although I am neither muslim or Christian that seems much more suggestive of a 'living', relevant God.

There's also the additional point that, if the Qur'an is the direct word of God, and the reader is both devout and acceptably intelligent, should there really be anything (important) that is 'ambiguous'? What were muslims supposed to do when no scholar was around?

 

[Woodrow]

I apologize for the massive deletions. we had gone way far astray from the original topic and this thread has become a very poor argument and an even worse representation of us as Muslims. we have not been behaving very Islamic for the past few pages. Let us remember we as Muslims do represent Islam to those who do not believe as we do. Let us keep arguments of fiqh and fahrd in their proper places and only answer in a manner we can verify with fact.

 

[Muhammad]

Islam QA site only uses Fatwas from Sheikh Bin Baz.

No, it uses fatwas from different scholars, including shaykh 'Uthaymeen, Al-Albaani, Ibn Taymiyyah and others, may Allaah have mercy upon them all.

Greetings Trumble,

I genuinely don't understand the need to rely on 'scholars' in such matters. As with scholars in any other field they are prone to error, bias, and disagreement with each other.

Scholars may not be infallible but they nevertheless have a great status in Islam. Allaah, Exalted is He, has praised and raised their status greatly, and commanded that we refer to them if we do not know something pertaining to our religion. And that is because Islam is based upon firm foundations, not the personal opinions and thoughts of each individual. Please see the response to Karina's comment for a bit more information.

Do you mean that the person with the question would need to take their own initiative on whether or not the scholar is giving them substantial evidence? I thought the scholar was to be trusted and respected, and surely if they are to be questioned, this is not exactly trust and respect?

If the Muslim has enough knowledge to enable him to compare the views of the scholars based on the evidence and to decide which is more likely to be correct, and he can tell what is more correct and more likely to be correct, then he must do that, because Allaah has commanded us to refer disputed matters to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination” [al-Nisa’ 4:59]

So he should refer the disputed matter to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and whatever appears to him to be more correct, based on the evidence, is what he should follow, because what is obligatory is to follow the evidence, and he may refer to the words of the scholars to help him understand the evidence.

But if the Muslim does not have sufficient knowledge to enable him to decide which of the scholarly opinions is more likely to be correct, then he should ask the people of knowledge whose knowledge and religious commitment he trusts and then follow the advice or fatwas they give. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So ask the people of the Reminder if you do not know”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:43]

If their opinions differ, then he should follow the one who is most trustworthy and most knowledgeable. This is like when a person falls sick and he looks for the most trustworthy and knowledgeable doctor so that he can go to him, because he is most likely to give him the right treatment than anyone else. It is more important to be on the safe side in religious matters than in worldly ones.

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow whatever scholarly opinion suits his desires if it goes against the evidence, or to seek fatwas from those who he thinks are going to be lenient in their fatwas.

Rather he has to be on the safe side when it comes to his religion, and ask the scholars who have the most knowledge and are most fearing of Allaah.

Regards.