In search of the elusive Soul..

[Isambard]

Hello, I'm curious as to what exactly is the Islamic conception of the Soul as to discuss the existance of the soul, but perhaps in w broader more philosophical context as Im sure it would be more interesting

I personally dont believe in the soul (defined as some immutable thing that defines me) because the 'self' can be changed either thru invasive brain surgery, drugs, virus etc.

But Im open to other opinions, so if you would be so kind, post away

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

hello,
does this help
and this.

I personally dont believe in the soul (defined as some immutable thing that defines me) because the 'self' can be changed either thru invasive brain surgery, drugs, virus etc.

a)i beleive that the self that can be changed though physical means, is the 'outside' thing. if that makes any sense.
b) can you please explain this concept to me. For example, the human being can change as well. from being a good person, to a bad person, for example, and vise versa. but that dosn't mean that the human being dosn't exsist.

 

[Isambard]

hello,
does this help
and this.

a)i beleive that the self that can be changed though physical means, is the 'outside' thing. if that makes any sense.
b) can you please explain this concept to me. For example, the human being can change as well. from being a good person, to a bad person, for example, and vise versa. but that dosn't mean that the human being dosn't exsist.

Well my problem with the idea of the soul is that outside changes (such as alterations to your body or chemistry) can also have real changes on both your mental capabilities and the way you think. So like you can have the whole Jackal/Hyde thing going on. Like if you get a certain disease and it eats away a part of your brain, you can go from super nice guy to cold blooded killer. So then how can we say a soul is immutable when even our own internal self can be altered so drastically?.

PS. Ill try to get some good examples when I come back from class

Edit: Ugg how rude of me. Ty for the link, Ill read it in more detail when I get back

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

hi,

I personally dont believe in the soul (defined as some immutable thing that defines me) because the 'self' can be changed either thru invasive brain surgery, drugs, virus etc.

Well my problem with the idea of the soul is that outside changes (such as alterations to your body or chemistry) can also have real changes on both your mental capabilities and the way you think. So like you can have the whole Jackal/Hyde thing going on. Like if you get a certain disease and it eats away a part of your brain, you can go from super nice guy to cold blooded killer. So then how can we say a soul is immutable when even our own internal self can be altered so drastically?.

no offence, but thats only refering to bodily changes. to find out if 'stuff' affects the soul, a) we have to find out what the soul is, and b) we have to see if it has a chemisty to it (obviouly if it had a chemistry to it, than it would be altered thorugh chemicals, etc). does that make sense?

 

[Trumble]

I personally dont believe in the soul (defined as some immutable thing that defines me) because the 'self' can be changed either thru invasive brain surgery, drugs, virus etc.

If the soul is defined as "some immutable thing" it cannot be the same thing as the 'self' you describe as nobody would deny that changes from moment to moment - neither drugs nor brain surgery are required. Nor can that 'self' form part of such an immutable soul. How and by what means that 'self' may change is therefore irrelevant.

Whether there actually is such an immutable soul is a different question altogether, as is whether it has any causal relation at all with the world we know, physical and/or mental.

 

[Woodrow]

Hello, I'm curious as to what exactly is the Islamic conception of the Soul as to discuss the existance of the soul, but perhaps in w broader more philosophical context as Im sure it would be more interesting

I personally dont believe in the soul (defined as some immutable thing that defines me) because the 'self' can be changed either thru invasive brain surgery, drugs, virus etc.

But Im open to other opinions, so if you would be so kind, post away

I turned a part of your quote red. I have some disagreement with that. One thing I have found when working with people that have suffered brain damage, mental illness etc. is that while on the surface it appears the persons behavior has changed, if you go deep into there perception of what they are seeing and why they do what they do, it fits right in with their true characteristics, it is the perception that was altered, not the ego. For example a mild mannered, gentle man suddenly becomes a homicidal killer. That looks way out of character, until you dig deep and find out he is seeing his "victims" as demons and monsters that are destroying the world, and he is simply trying to protect himself and others.