Ex-allies 'fight al-Qaeda in Iraq'

[Malaikah]

I always see post and read articles that say it is never allowed to kill a beliver. They never talk about exceptions.

And if two parties or groups among the believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them both, but if one of them rebels against the other, then fight you (all) against the one that which rebels till it complies with the Command of Allâh; then if it complies, then make reconciliation between them justly, and be equitable. Verily! Allâh loves those who are equitable.

49:9

 

[The_Prince]

i dont see how americans see this as something good for them?

do you guys realize the ONLY reason these sunni insurgents turned on AQI is because AQI were going abit over-board in attacks against IRAQIS. in other words these insurgents would have never turned on AQI if they just toned it down abit, basically these sunnis still dont really like you americans, they just made a strategic move, which was smart, and hey they get american weapons and money to do it!

make no mistake these sunni insurgents dont like america, and once they are done with AQI they will start turning their guns right back at the americans, infact most of them havent really taken their guns off the americans anyway.

and what makes it rather amusing is that a few years ago groups like islamic army of iraqi, mujhideen army etc were called MILLITANT Islam and radical Islamists, all of a sudden their moderate nationalists?! lol.

they are no different than they were 2 or 3 years ago, the only difference is is that they have had enough of suicide bombings against mosques, and markets! not against IED'S and attacks against american forces!

so to call this progress is quite wrong, this isnt progress at all.

whats to say that these groups dont make a peace treaty next week or next month? it could easily happen if AQI agree to renounce some of their extreme tactics of bombings of mosques and markets, and simply concentrate on american forces!

but to another point, the fact is even admited by americans that AQI is NOT the biggest threat in iraq, nor have they been for the past 2 years! the real threat for the US plans have been the Shiite millitias! and these guys are still as strong as ever and are getting stronger by the day. the second USA leaves they will simply turn shiite areas into strong holds for themselves and what you will have is hezbollah land in shiite areas. and that isnt good at all for the future when they are strong enough and maybe start looking to attack israel and american interests in the middle-east.

..........where is the progress.............

they often say when things are quiet and calm that this is actually a bad sign, and thats what i think. the fact that things may seem quieter in iraq for the moment is not really progress, rather it is the small calm before the big storm, and the fact that millitant groups are waiting and binding their time till the Americans end their surge.

the fact is when millitants go quiet and calm, it means their re-grouping, re-orginizing, and re-arming etc etc. they will probaly wait it out until america leaves leaving a puppet iraqi goverment incapble of defending itself or holding down the authority, giving the millitants the easy oppurtunity to take over. people need to now start looking at the BIG PICTURE, the long term affects, not the short term day to day affects.

insurgents and millitias have evolved, so have their tactics and plans......and thats not progress, it just means their smarter and more ambitious now than they were 3 years ago when all they wanted was america to be out and make a nice peaceful iraq. now they want america out and not only that, but to have power themselves and run the show, and why not? they are strong enough to do so after years after guerilla warfare and insurgency.

 

[MTAFFI]

to answer your question in general principle anyone who rules by other than Allah has revealed, making the haram into halal and halal into haram is a kaffir whether they claim islam or not.

Abu Abdullah

So then based on this statement alone you agree with what i stated above

no offence taken either, although how do you know what my religious orientation is?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

if the Talibaan is not the taifatul mansoora then i dont know who is....

im serious... who?

Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah

 

[MTAFFI]

i dont see how americans see this as something good for them?

do you guys realize the ONLY reason these sunni insurgents turned on AQI is because AQI were going abit over-board in attacks against IRAQIS. in other words these insurgents would have never turned on AQI if they just toned it down abit, basically these sunnis still dont really like you americans, they just made a strategic move, which was smart, and hey they get american weapons and money to do it!

make no mistake these sunni insurgents dont like america, and once they are done with AQI they will start turning their guns right back at the americans, infact most of them havent really taken their guns off the americans anyway.

and what makes it rather amusing is that a few years ago groups like islamic army of iraqi, mujhideen army etc were called MILLITANT Islam and radical Islamists, all of a sudden their moderate nationalists?! lol.

they are no different than they were 2 or 3 years ago, the only difference is is that they have had enough of suicide bombings against mosques, and markets! not against IED'S and attacks against american forces!

so to call this progress is quite wrong, this isnt progress at all.

whats to say that these groups dont make a peace treaty next week or next month? it could easily happen if AQI agree to renounce some of their extreme tactics of bombings of mosques and markets, and simply concentrate on american forces!

but to another point, the fact is even admited by americans that AQI is NOT the biggest threat in iraq, nor have they been for the past 2 years! the real threat for the US plans have been the Shiite millitias! and these guys are still as strong as ever and are getting stronger by the day. the second USA leaves they will simply turn shiite areas into strong holds for themselves and what you will have is hezbollah land in shiite areas. and that isnt good at all for the future when they are strong enough and maybe start looking to attack israel and american interests in the middle-east.

..........where is the progress.............

they often say when things are quiet and calm that this is actually a bad sign, and thats what i think. the fact that things may seem quieter in iraq for the moment is not really progress, rather it is the small calm before the big storm, and the fact that millitant groups are waiting and binding their time till the Americans end their surge.

the fact is when millitants go quiet and calm, it means their re-grouping, re-orginizing, and re-arming etc etc. they will probaly wait it out until america leaves leaving a puppet iraqi goverment incapble of defending itself or holding down the authority, giving the millitants the easy oppurtunity to take over. people need to now start looking at the BIG PICTURE, the long term affects, not the short term day to day affects.

insurgents and millitias have evolved, so have their tactics and plans......and thats not progress, it just means their smarter and more ambitious now than they were 3 years ago when all they wanted was america to be out and make a nice peaceful iraq. now they want america out and not only that, but to have power themselves and run the show, and why not? they are strong enough to do so after years after guerilla warfare and insurgency.

a perfect example, do you think that the shia militias would be a good government in Iraq? Do you think the Islamic state of Iraq would be a good government? I bet you liked SH didnt you? Fact is, whether you want to recognize it or not, the Iraqi people are sick of these types of groups, they see the american troops are there trying to help them and they are turning against these groups that want to kill them and the troops. But hey lets take a better look at your hypothesis, what sense would it make for these people to turn around and kill americans after the americans have helped them so much (should the AQI, etc be driven out)? Even better, what reason at that point would the US presence be necessary? It wouldnt and we could leave the Iraqis to themselves to live far more peacefully then they have been. Basically all you have done is say that the general Iraqi public are nothing but a bunch of ungrateful scam artists who want nothing but war, which I dont think is true. I think these people just want the violence to stop which is why they are helping the US in such larger numbers.

You seem consumed with the idea that attacking the US is a good thing, perhaps you should take a look back in short history, look at what the last attack did to the middle east, do you think that something like that would be tolerated again, particularly by Israel?!! You are full of yourself a state sponsered attack on the US would be a horrible deadly mistake by anyone in the middle east which is why it doesnt happen. Look how many countries are over there surrounding tiny Israel, and look how badly they want that land yet no one can take it, they only can respond with these militias that claim no mans land, there is a reason for that and that is they realize they would lose, just like they lost every war with them before, they are inferior. So go ahead form a Hezbollah government that openly attacks Israel or US interest because it will only be in vain when they are hiding in spider holes next.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Ex-Allies (traitors) fight Al-Qaeda (their brothers) in Iraq (the land of the muslims)

i thought i'd translate that for the less aware


Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

 

[Malaikah]

if the Talibaan is not the taifatul mansoora then i dont know who is....

What is taifatul mansoora? :?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

What is taifatul mansoora? :?

Wa alaikum ussalaam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

At-Taifatul Mansoora is translated into "the aided and victorious group" heres more on them:

The Aided and Victorious Group:​

[1] The Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah victorious upon the truth, not being harmed by those who oppose them until the command of Allaah comes about, and they are like that.” [33]

[2] He (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “When the people of Shaam (Syria, Jordan, Palestine) become corrupt then there will be no good in you. And there will not cease to be a group from my Ummah being helped; those that oppose them will not harm them, until the hour is established.” [34]

[3] Ibnul-Mubaarak (d.151H) - rahimahullaah – said, “According to me, they are Ashaabul-Hadeeth (the Scholars of Hadeeth).” [35]

[4] Imaam al-Bukhaaree (d.256H) - rahimahullaah – said, “It means: Ahlul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth).” [36]

[5] Imaam Ahmad (d.241H) - rahimahullaah – said, “If this Taa‘ifatul-Mansoorah (Victorious and Aided Group) is not Ashaabul-Hadeeth, then I do not know who they are.” [37]

[al-Qaadee ’Iyaad (d.544H) - rahimahullaah – said, “What Ahmad intended was Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah: those who hold the ’aqeedah of Ahlul-Hadeeth.” [38]]

[6] Indeed, Ahlul-Hadeeth, by virtue of their competence in the study of the Sunnah, are not attached to any person, but are altogether concerned with the Sunnah of the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam); his guidance, his manners, his battles, and whatever else pertains to him.

[7] Imaam ash-Shaafi’ee said, whilst addressing Imaam Ahmad, “You are more knowledgeable about Hadeeth than I am. So if there comes to you a Hadeeth that is authentic, then make me aware of it, until I accept it and accord with it - it is from Basrah.” [39]

So Ahlul-Hadeeth - may Allaah make us amongst them - do not have ta’assub (bigoted blind adherence) for the saying of any particular person, however elevated, or whatever position he holds. Rather, they cling to the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam), as opposed to those who do not ascribe themselves to Ahlul-Hadeeth; those who have ta’assub to their Imaams - who have actually prohibited them from this - just as Ahlul-Hadeeth readily cling to the sayings of their Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam). So it is not surprising that Ahlul-Hadeeth are al-Firqatun-Naajiyah (the Saved-Sect ) and at-Taa‘ifatul-Mansoorah (the Aided and Victorious Group).

(8) al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (d.463H) said, “And if only the people of blameworthy opinion busied themselves with beneficial knowledge, and seeking the Sunnah of the Messenger of the Lord of Creation, and followed the way of the fuqahaa‘ and muhaddithoon - then they would find that this would be sufficient for them. And the narration would take the place of his opinion which he used to hold; since the Hadeeth comprehends the fundamentals of Tawheed, the reported Threats and the Promises, the Attributes of the Lord of Creation - who is High above the saying of the apostates, it also contains information about Paradise and Hell-Fire, and what Allaah has prepared therein for the pious and the wicked, and what Allaah has created in the earths and the heavens, and the remarkable things and great signs, and a mention of the nearest Angels - those drawn up in ranks and those who recite tasbeeh.

And the Hadeeth comprehends stories of the about the pious ascetics and Awliyaa‘, wonderful admonition and sayings of the Scholars. It contains histories of the kings of the ’Arabs and non-’Arabs, and the accounts of past nations, and descriptions of the battles of the Messenger (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam); his expeditions, rulings, judgements, sermons, warnings, predictions and miracles. It also contains information about the number of his Wives and Children, his Relatives and Companions, and a mention of their excellence and merit, and a mention of their lives, their actions and their ancestry. And the Hadeeth contains tafseer of the Qur‘aan, information and the wise remembrance contained in it. It contains the sayings of the Companions about its preserved rulings, the different sayings they held, as well as those of the Scholars and mujtahideen.

And Allaah made Ahlul-Hadeeth (the People of Hadeeth) the pillar of the Sharee’ah and the destroyer of every despicable innovation. So they are Allaah’s wardens amongst His creation, and the link between the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and his Ummah, and the strivers to preserve His Religion. So their light shines brightly, their excellence remains, their signs are clear, their positions evident and their proofs are over-powering. And all the sects coil themselves around vain desires and prefer opinion which they cling to - except for Ahlul-Hadeeth, since the Book is their provision, the Sunnah is their proof, the Messenger their leader and to him is their ascription. They do not deviate upon vain desires, nor turn to mere conjecture. They accept what is reported from the Prophet (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) and they are the trustworthy and reliable ones, who memorise the Religion and are its treasurers, its storehouses of knowledge and its bearers. If anyone differs about a hadeeth, then it is referred back to them. Thus, their judgement is accepted and listened to. From them is every Scholar and Imaam, and every true ascetic, and one of excellence, and precise reciter and righteous Khateeb. They are the Saved-Sect and their way is the straight one...” [40]

May Allaah make us from amongst Ahlul-Hadeeth, and provide us with the ability to act upon it, love its people and to act in accordance with it.


[33] Related by Muslim (6/52-53) and Aboo Daawood (2/202) from Thawbaan (radiyallaahu ’anhu).

[34] Saheeh: Related by at-Tirmidhee (2/30) who said, “The hadeeth is Hasan Saheeh.” It was also related by Ibn Maajah (1/6-7) and Ahmad (3/463), from Qurrah al-Muzanee (radiyallaahu ’anhu).

[35] Sharaf Ashaabul-Hadeeth (p. 26) of al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee

[36] Sharaf Ashaabul-Hadeeth (p. 27)

[37] Related by al-Haakim in Ma’rifatu ’Uloomul-Hadeeth (p. 3), and al-Haafidh Ibn Hajr declared its isnaad to be Saheeh in Fathul-Baaree (13/293).

[38] Sharh Saheeh Muslim (13/67) of an-Nawawee

[39] Related by Ibn Abee Haatim in Aadaabush-Shaafi’ee (p. 94-95), Aboo Nu’aym in Hilyatul-Awliyaa‘ (9/106) and al-Khateeb in Ihtijaaj bish-Shaafi’ee (8/1). It was declared to be Saheeh by Ibn al-Qayyim in al-I’laam (2/325).

[40] Sharaf Ashaabul-Hadeeth (p. 7-9).

Methodology of the Saved Sect
By Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Jameel Zaynoo
Minhaajul-Firqatun-Naajiyah wat-Taa‘ifat al-Mansoorah (p. 6-17) - slightly adapted.
Four additional narrations have been added to the main text, by the editors, and are indicated by [...](Troid)​

 

[MTAFFI]

Ex-Allies (traitors) fight Al-Qaeda (their brothers) in Iraq (the land of the muslims)

i thought i'd translate that for the less aware


Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

so then you believe that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban walk in the path of the prophet (pbuh)? Please forgive me if I am mistaken..

If, however, you do believe this why? It seems to me they venture far from that path and in fact down the whole opposite one.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

so then you believe that Al-Qaeda and the Taliban walk in the path of the prophet (pbuh)? Please forgive me if I am mistaken..

If, however, you do believe this why? It seems to me they venture far from that path and in fact down the whole opposite one.

I have heard of many examples of the Taliban fighting the oppressors in their land.

And you have heard what the Media has told you

We both believe out of a bias, i trust my islaamic sources, you trust your non-islaamic sources.


To me the Taliban are simply defending themselves, may Allaah destroy all those who oppress the Afghans

 

[wilberhum]

I have heard of many examples of the Taliban fighting the oppressors in their land.

And you have heard what the Media has told you

We both believe out of a bias, i trust my islaamic sources, you trust your non-islaamic sources.


To me the Taliban are simply defending themselves, may Allaah destroy all those who oppress the Afghans

But if you get information from places who's purpose is to provide information, the conclusions are obvious.

 

[MTAFFI]

I have heard of many examples of the Taliban fighting the oppressors in their land.

And you have heard what the Media has told you

We both believe out of a bias, i trust my islaamic sources, you trust your non-islaamic sources.


To me the Taliban are simply defending themselves, may Allaah destroy all those who oppress the Afghans

so you dont think that their fight is for power? Or a better question, if the US were to leave the country today and the Taliban were left there with no one to stand in their way, do you believe that they would not kill a single Muslim? If so surely they could not be the ones you spoke of above...

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

so you dont think that their fight is for power? Or a better question, if the US were to leave the country today and the Taliban were left there with no one to stand in their way, do you believe that they would not kill a single Muslim? If so surely they could not be the ones you spoke of above...

killing a single innocent muslim is as if you have killed the whole of humanity, doing so is clearly wrong, if the taliban ever commit such injustice intentionally then may Allah bring them to account

 

[MTAFFI]

killing a single innocent muslim is as if you have killed the whole of humanity, doing so is clearly wrong, if the taliban ever commit such injustice intentionally then may Allah bring them to account

are you saying they havent already? I would be happy to provide you with evidence of such, which according to your own posts would reflect that they are not who you think they may be and may discourage you from supporting them as you do. Al-qaeda, the ones on this thread that we are talking about, certainly are not this group and as I stated above are the exact opposite. Furthermore there are many groups of Muslims in this world that could be attributed with such a title, but are not necessarily fighting anyone....

 

[wilberhum]

killing a single innocent muslim is as if you have killed the whole of humanity, doing so is clearly wrong, if the taliban ever commit such injustice intentionally then may Allah bring them to account

Is is only a problem it the innocent person killed is a Muslim?

 

[Keltoi]

Is is only a problem it the innocent person killed is a Muslim?

I hope not, but probably in the minds of some that is the case. It is all a Western conspiracy. Especially the beheadings of school teachers...that never happened. :blind:

 

[The_Prince]

a perfect example, do you think that the shia militias would be a good government in Iraq? Do you think the Islamic state of Iraq would be a good government? I bet you liked SH didnt you? Fact is, whether you want to recognize it or not, the Iraqi people are sick of these types of groups, they see the american troops are there trying to help them and they are turning against these groups that want to kill them and the troops. But hey lets take a better look at your hypothesis, what sense would it make for these people to turn around and kill americans after the americans have helped them so much (should the AQI, etc be driven out)? Even better, what reason at that point would the US presence be necessary? It wouldnt and we could leave the Iraqis to themselves to live far more peacefully then they have been. Basically all you have done is say that the general Iraqi public are nothing but a bunch of ungrateful scam artists who want nothing but war, which I dont think is true. I think these people just want the violence to stop which is why they are helping the US in such larger numbers.

You seem consumed with the idea that attacking the US is a good thing, perhaps you should take a look back in short history, look at what the last attack did to the middle east, do you think that something like that would be tolerated again, particularly by Israel?!! You are full of yourself a state sponsered attack on the US would be a horrible deadly mistake by anyone in the middle east which is why it doesnt happen. Look how many countries are over there surrounding tiny Israel, and look how badly they want that land yet no one can take it, they only can respond with these militias that claim no mans land, there is a reason for that and that is they realize they would lose, just like they lost every war with them before, they are inferior. So go ahead form a Hezbollah government that openly attacks Israel or US interest because it will only be in vain when they are hiding in spider holes next.

you obviously didnt pay attention to ANYTHING i said, its so obvious your going way off topic.

for starters the iraqi public support the sunni insurgent groups who are fighting AQI. secondly the shiites support most of the millitia groups as well! so no it will not be ME forming Hezbollah land etc, it will be the Iraqi people because they support the millitias in the shiite areas, and the same goes for sunnis in sunni areas.

if Israel couldnt even defeat tiny hezbollah in southern lebanon do you think they have any chance vs triple the amount of millitia fighters all over Iraq? me thinks no, but that isnt a topic for now as it hasnt happened yet, and may never happen, or it may very well happen when shiite millitias are in charge of iraq for a couple of years.

either way back to the point, the sunni insurgent groups fighting AQI are the very same ones who killed thousands of US troops, as well as kidnapping and beheading people, and they have not stopped doing that nor have they said they will, and the fact is these sunni groups are supported by the people. so i hope you dont ignore this point like you did the last time, its obvious you did since you say the iraqi PEOPLE are finally standing up, erm not exactly, they have been standing up since the first day USA began occupying their country, the only difference now is that they are against AQI, NOT the other sunni groups fighting the USA.

so i repeat again, this isnt progress for the USA.

 

[Ninth_Scribe]

A "sell-out" is a sell-out and no one respects them, not even the U.S. military, who lumped them all together in yesterday's attack. Naturally they're pissed off at the U.S. military for that, but they really should have known better in the first place.

The Ninth Scribe

 

[al-muslimah]

As usual fake story and yes I support this ayah:
Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.
4:92
Wilberhumm you are really affected by the media and their extreme lies huh.Oh well.

 

[wilberhum]

As usual fake story and yes I support this ayah:
Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.
4:92
Wilberhumm you are really affected by the media and their extreme lies huh.Oh well.

Right! Da, Al Jazerra is just an arm or the US government.:uuh:
Do you want to present any more evidence that you don't read?

What about a believer killing a non-believer?
I assume that is OK with you.