Belgian City Bans Hijab

[aamirsaab]

you are mixing liberalism with secularism.Just like the Indians do.
secularism is separation of faith and state.Liberal means people are usually allowed to do whatever they want;they are granted a lot of freedoms.

I'm not mixing anything, I was being sarcastic.
You said it yourself: secularism is seperation of faith and state. What is happening though is abolishment of faith by the state.

The whole point of secularism was to prevent one religion being promoted more than another. In America where it started, the purpose of it was to prevent Churches being funded by the government so as not to be biased - thereby enabling complete freedom of choice, atleast in regards to religion. It's modern meaning is considerably different to what it used to stand for. Shame really.

And so the endless circle of irony (or bull crap) of mankind continues through the new millenia.

 

[Bittersteel]

are crosses banned too?I wouldn't like that too but I will regard the whole thing as fair then.

 

[Amadeus85]

are crosses banned too?I wouldn't like that too but I will regard the whole thing as fair then.

A cross can be hidden under clothes so its not a problem i guess.

 

[KAding]

are crosses banned too?I wouldn't like that too but I will regard the whole thing as fair then.

Any religious symbol is banned yes, so that would include crosses. The dress code also includes bans of political party symbols for example. Or icons of trade unions or other organizations.

 

[Muslim Knight]

My country Malaysia, it's 60% majority Malay population is pre-dominantly Muslim and our Federal Constitution says the religion of the State is Islam. However, the traffic laws of our land permit a Sikh to wear his required turban in place of helmet when riding a motorcycle, but not a Muslim man to wear his kuffiyah.

I believe there is a word called tolerance.

I wonder what Belgium hopes to accomplish by banning the hijab & other religious symbols except to draw the ire of the religious folks who coincidentally, are also human beings. What? I thought you wanted to live in peace?

 

[Aziaf]

Asalamualaikum

People who chose to display their beliefs, who look different, who are different can be easily identified. Their idenity links them directly with what they believe in and this is reflected in thier views and actions.

People are more likely to notice those that feel strongly about what believe in and have chosen to reflect this by wearing a symbl of thier belief, be it religous or otherwise. They will arouse intrest and support for a group, religion and union ect will grow. (Kind of like free advertising)

By introducing such measures that remove such 'identities', it hopes to remove such differences all together to develop a uniform method of approaching an increasingly diverse large population that feels threatened by practices which it has no understanding of. Instead of adressing the issue, it is trying to submerge it.Removing things out of sight does not remove it from ones mind.

If anything should be removed, is the view that such measures are acceptable and applicable and that they will last.

Which state will adopt these measures next and for what reason, and when will it be stopped?...can it be stopped?

walaikumsalam

 

[Suomipoika]

So am I to gather that state and city or the employer cant set up dresscodes on their employees? No police or nurse uniforms? Everything needs to be accepted, all sorts of political and religious ideologies, because banning any of them is wrong and infringes on various freedoms such as expression, religion and speech? I guess you all who are so outraged by dresscodes also support the right of nudist working naked in his/hers work place right next to the hijab wearing people? Or is this just one of those double standard situations where what I follow needs to be accepted but what others follow can be banned?

 

[aamirsaab]

So am I to gather that state and city or the employer cant set up dresscodes on their employees? No police or nurse uniforms? Everything needs to be accepted, all sorts of political and religious ideologies, because banning any of them is wrong and infringes on various freedoms such as expression, religion and speech?

Dresscodes on employees I have no problem with. But forcing someone to effectively not practice a part of their religion (this goes for all religions) in a secular country is just plain hypocrisy.

I guess you all who are so outraged by dresscodes also support the right of nudist working naked in his/hers work place right next to the hijab wearing people? Or is this just one of those double standard situations where what I follow needs to be accepted but what others follow can be banned?

I see where you are coming from but the fact is a hijab is part of Islam - nudism is not a religion but technically it would be covered by freedom of expression. However, society widely accepts that people should wear some clothing.
And we all know what society is responsible for.

 

[wilberhum]

Dresscodes on employees I have no problem with. But forcing someone to effectively not practice a part of their religion (this goes for all religions) in a secular country is just plain hypocrisy.

Kind of off topic, yet kind of not.
Can a Muslim work in a hog kill plant? Can a Muslim be the one that slits them open to drain the blood?

 

[snakelegs]

So am I to gather that state and city or the employer cant set up dresscodes on their employees? No police or nurse uniforms? Everything needs to be accepted, all sorts of political and religious ideologies, because banning any of them is wrong and infringes on various freedoms such as expression, religion and speech? I guess you all who are so outraged by dresscodes also support the right of nudist working naked in his/hers work place right next to the hijab wearing people? Or is this just one of those double standard situations where what I follow needs to be accepted but what others follow can be banned?

do you also think jews should be forbidden to wear yarmulke and sikhs should be forbidden to wear turban?

 

[جوري]

do you also think jews should be forbidden to wear yarmulke and sikhs should be forbidden to wear turban?

I wonder if being a nudist is a biannual thing or happens all year long?
I'd get the urge to pass out sunblock in the summer and some bloomers and Pantaloon to the vecchi lest they die of exposure in the winter...

Such a fine line to insanity and I worry about the committee of addleheads who sit there and pass laws... We are soon to be a soceity of naked vagabonds and dirty hobos who exchane sponge baths in a caboose for tall tales!!! :-\

cheers

 

[Suomipoika]

Dresscodes on employees I have no problem with. But forcing someone to effectively not practice a part of their religion (this goes for all religions) in a secular country is just plain hypocrisy.


I see where you are coming from but the fact is a hijab is part of Islam - nudism is not a religion but technically it would be covered by freedom of expression. However, society widely accepts that people should wear some clothing.
And we all know what society is responsible for.

Except thats not really true. The people affected by this can find another job. It might sound cruel, but everybody else has to choose based on their ideology whether working somewhere and if butter on bread is more important than what they believe in.

Personally I have really big problem with placing religions over other ideologies as the one that gives you freepass to bend the rules.

Societies (atleast in Europe) are also slowly starting to accept that religious symbols and garments dont belong to the school or work place.

do you also think jews should be forbidden to wear yarmulke and sikhs should be forbidden to wear turban?

I think employer can set up dresscodes he or she chooses to, people who want to work there have to choose whats more important to them, ideology or job.

 

[Amadeus85]

I dont think that people who made this law were thinking about jewish yarmulkas or christian crosses or sikhs turbans. They made it because they are islamophobes (those who fear of islam).Their major intention was to ban muslim hijabs in public places. It's not the first of such attempts in Europe and not last i think.

 

[snakelegs]

I think employer can set up dresscodes he or she chooses to, people who want to work there have to choose whats more important to them, ideology or job.

well, at least you are consistent.
i guess an employer should be free to discriminate against someone who practices their religion? (we are talking about religion, not ideology)

 

[Suomipoika]

well, at least you are consistent.
i guess an employer should be free to discriminate against someone who practices their religion? (we are talking about religion, not ideology)

Yes, the very sameway employers are free to discriminate against any other ideas people have besides religions.

What if someone starts a religion that is not illegal but practising it is clearly against good taste? Is it okay to set up rules then that discriminate against it, or are just the mainstream religions where the employer has to bend the rules?

 

[snakelegs]

Yes, the very sameway employers are free to discriminate against any other ideas people have besides religions.

What if someone starts a religion that is not illegal but practising it is clearly against good taste? Is it okay to set up rules then that discriminate against it, or are just the mainstream religions where the employer has to bend the rules?

good question. is there a list of approved religions? i don't know. is there a list of what is "good taste"?
i don't have the answer.

 

[wilberhum]

good question. is there a list of approved religions? i don't know. is there a list of what is "good taste"?
i don't have the answer.

Just as important, maybe more important than who is on a list of approved religions, is who creates the list.

See now if I created the list, it would be really short, like zero.

What would be the justification to be on the list?

It seems to me that the only ones qualified to create the list would be theists.
So each group would only contain one entry.
Because they know there is only one true religion, there’s.

 

[niler]

i thot uk was better in terms of religous tolerance dan us?

 

[islamiii]

Coz west is so coward they think a women in hijab is a terrorist .
how stupid is it?

 

[aamirsaab]

Kind of off topic, yet kind of not.
Can a Muslim work in a hog kill plant? Can a Muslim be the one that slits them open to drain the blood?

Since pork is forbidden, so is anything related to it. In essence, a muslim should not be working in a hog kill plant. Though, there are exceptions in extreme cases.

Except thats not really true. The people affected by this can find another job. It might sound cruel, but everybody else has to choose based on their ideology whether working somewhere and if butter on bread is more important than what they believe in.

The thing is, and you rightfully say this later on, religion is being slowly kicked out of jobs all together as society is no longer accepting it. This leads to the predicament where the only jobs available are solely linked to trading or be your own boss style of work, which obviously limits the job prospects

Personally I have really big problem with placing religions over other ideologies as the one that gives you freepass to bend the rules.

Wearing a religious symbol is hardly bending the rules. If it's for health and safety regulations, then fine so be it. But if it is matter of preference, stuff it to be quite honest.

Societies (atleast in Europe) are also slowly starting to accept that religious symbols and garments dont belong to the school or work place.

And as a result, polarisation occurs.

I think employer can set up dresscodes he or she chooses to, people who want to work there have to choose whats more important to them, ideology or job.

The predicament lies in the fact that the ideology is a way of life not a simple do this and that. There are many religious folk who cherish their religion, who are in debt to their religion in a spiritual sense so much so that by parting with it simply to greet customers or pack a bag is just too much. Too much change over a small insignificant thing ticks people off.