Brits kick out child cremators

[Cognescenti]

..i see no muslim stamping on any bibles or flushing bibles down toilets?
....

I hate to interrupt you when you are on a roll but you do realize the Newsweek "disrespecting the Quran" story proved to be false and had to be retracted by Newsweek.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/newsweek.quran/index.html

Of course, I don't expect you to hear about the retraction as it doesn't fit your template. By the way, I would have to say that murdering a couple of Korean missionaries and keeping and terrorizing dozens of women hostage is a step above "stamping on Bibles".

Here is a picture of a Pakistani soldier guarding a Catholic church after the Pope's comments were misunderstood by muslims.

Maybe he was just trying to stop Muslims from converting to Catholicism, eh?

Here are some other boys just out having fun "stamping" and burning and effigy of the Pope

 

[Rou]

I hate to interrupt you when you are on a roll but you do realize the Newsweek "disrespecting the Quran" story proved to be false and had to be retracted by Newsweek.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/16/newsweek.quran/index.html

Of course, I don't expect you to hear about the retraction as it doesn't fit your template. By the way, I would have to say that murdering a couple of Korean missionaries and keeping and terrorizing dozens of women hostage is a step above "stamping on Bibles".

Here is a picture of a Pakistani soldier guarding a Catholic church after the Pope's comments were misunderstood by muslims.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42091000/jpg/_42091988_guard_afp_416.jpg

Maybe he was just trying to stop Muslims from converting to Catholicism, eh?

Here are some other boys just out having fun "stamping" and burning and effigy of the Pope

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42091000/jpg/_42091934_effigy_ap_416.jpg

indeed what a sad state hey? at least the guard is guarding the church and not shooting a missile into it hey?

also you state that the story was a fake hey perhaps that is true....

but what about the eye witness accounts of many of the innocent freed from guntanamo mate who state the quran being stamped on and urinated on? what of the offical guards dressed in riot gear rushing anyone who would try to pray? what of the cages they are kept in and not given access to water?

without keeping clean they know they will not pray??

you sho pictures of a soilder from his own country protecting a church from who? i tell you who the ignorant...in every country you have the ignorant and indeed they should be stopped from attacking a church beacuise of what the pope said...

as for the popes picture being burnt well when he states certain things the public will react....and you stated the popes words were misunderstood? i thik you should look into what he said a little more before saying that...

as i said no muslim stamps on bibles....

simple fact is every country has people who will do wrong and the goverment must step in...

but with the US adminstrations its the goverment doing these wrong things and the people having to step in....

the people who i point at for stepping on qurans and treating people as animals and raping innocents arent some random group wandring the plains with ideals they are the military of the United states!

a massive diffrence to random seprate groups who are under no flag kidnapping innocents!???

i wont blame the USA for some psyco kid within there country that shoots up a school but when its there goverment and there soilders doing these things then its the USA that should answer!

 

[wilberhum]

Not that im the talibans best friend but that description can be given to the ~US army as well actully we can add rapist,racist,murderers,inhuman,disrespectful,evil...

the list could go on hey?

i mean considering the endless amount of proof against the actions of so many of the soilders out there? the actions in iraq, afgan and abu ghraib and guntanamo?

i see no muslim stamping on any bibles or flushing bibles down toilets?

i see no muslim blowing up churches or disrespecting the christian religon?

i see no army of muslims attacking western lands?

you group together few people and say they did 9/11?

you group together few guys to say they did 7/7

how many of those people are there against the west??

yet in iraq and afganistan a western army is sent? against what? they have no army?

The media band together all terroists around the world? al qaeda!??

any bomb that goes off is al qaeda?? this is no army?

it is so the west can sleep better at night...we fight not men women and children in there own land in there own homes...

no we fight insurgents...we fight terrorists....we fight...suicide bombers...

many of those that are fighting are fighting beacuse this war started before that they were getting along with there life....

What an empty bunch of junk. I had thought better of you in the days gone past.

 

[Resigned]

Your views are yours in the ending my friend but the jihad for freedom has two sides to it always now one says that those in afganistan would be free if the were liberated however what does liberation mean? does it mean freed from the taliban and enslaved by western ideals?

There are too many cliches to address in one post so I'll quote your introduction, only.

I certainly acknowledge it’s easy to criticize and condemn yet you offer nothing that resembles effective solutions. I make no apologies for the U.S. responding to an attack and seeking out those who aided and abetted Islamic terrorism that touched our soil.

I understand many are easily swayed by the irrational and misguided musings of someone like a Bin Laden. He spews forth the same banter we’ve heard for decades now. He, like a parade of others before him, have offered nothing new, no solutions, nothing toward the furtherance of making life better, just more of the same excuses for failure and incompetence: blame the Great Satan. You seem to buy into this.

I think we also have to acknowledge that part of Al Queda's credo ( and to include a fair size of the islamist world), is just a basic hate of all things Western, except its technology where useful for jihad purposes, because it is seen as a threat to all things Muslim and actually that brings us to the core of the clash between Islamists such as Bin Laden and the modern world...the West represents the modern world.......so there is nothing ultimately we in the West could do to overcome Bin Laden's kind of hate, nothing....except if the West were zapped off the face of the earth..... and that’s not going to happen.

So, let's just turn Afghanistan over to the Talibums and they can return that nation to the violence and injustices of life as it existed on the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century.

Super!

 

[barney]

Bin Laden is offering a solution Resigned.
The perfect solution of Islam, which he invited George Bush to embrace and submit to.
Once this happens, as far as him and many hundreds of millions of muslims would beleive, all problems are solved.


The fact that it wont happen and the world is far more likely to be torn literaly apart first is a sacrifice he is willing to make.

 

[Rou]

What an empty bunch of junk. I had thought better of you in the days gone past.

I could have easily said that about things that you have said that do not agree with, yet i gave my point of view on it instead..i had the decency to give a reply....instead of calling your view "a bunch of junk" does this not tell you something?

perhaps if instead of just not taking into account others views and ignoring them or insulting them as you have done me, you looked at it from there point of view just perhaps you would see that which you blind yourself to.

the truth...

 

[Rou]

There are too many cliches to address in one post so I'll quote your introduction, only.

I certainly acknowledge it’s easy to criticize and condemn yet you offer nothing that resembles effective solutions. I make no apologies for the U.S. responding to an attack and seeking out those who aided and abetted Islamic terrorism that touched our soil.

I understand many are easily swayed by the irrational and misguided musings of someone like a Bin Laden. He spews forth the same banter we’ve heard for decades now. He, like a parade of others before him, have offered nothing new, no solutions, nothing toward the furtherance of making life better, just more of the same excuses for failure and incompetence: blame the Great Satan. You seem to buy into this.

I think we also have to acknowledge that part of Al Queda's credo ( and to include a fair size of the islamist world), is just a basic hate of all things Western, except its technology where useful for jihad purposes, because it is seen as a threat to all things Muslim and actually that brings us to the core of the clash between Islamists such as Bin Laden and the modern world...the West represents the modern world.......so there is nothing ultimately we in the West could do to overcome Bin Laden's kind of hate, nothing....except if the West were zapped off the face of the earth..... and that’s not going to happen.

So, let's just turn Afghanistan over to the Talibums and they can return that nation to the violence and injustices of life as it existed on the Arabian Peninsula in the 7th century.

Super!

again you use the excuse that there is too much there for you too answer? thats a good answer to this whole issue then....

if you do not wish to answer the questions nor take into consideration the views of others then how does you talking about it make any sense if the only view you are intrested in is your own then look within yourself and see the selfishness of that view...

its quite obvious you nor understand the issue nor wish to understand it you have your view and that is what matters to you...then enjoy that view but consider it not the truth your opinion is your right but not necessarily the truth...

your take is the talibans want to destroy your way of life and the wests ideals...yet i have never seen a taliban or a afgan attack the USA? it is quite the opposite there is an army sent from the US in afganistan tearing up there country?

an offical army from a country....it is the US who is attacking a country not the afgans...

i have at least tried to give you an answer for your view all you have done is ignored my post just to almost stay in your denial of who is attackiing who....

 

[Rou]

Bin Laden is offering a solution Resigned.
The perfect solution of Islam, which he invited George Bush to embrace and submit to.
Once this happens, as far as him and many hundreds of millions of muslims would beleive, all problems are solved.


The fact that it wont happen and the world is far more likely to be torn literaly apart first is a sacrifice he is willing to make.

Was wandring can anyone get the script from the offer made to bush i will try to find it as im quite sure bin laden indeed did say domething about accepting islam but his terms were not to submit to islam but to just leave islamic countries?

again im not 100% on this as i did hear it quite a while back but if anyone could link the script it would help.

Oh and also bin laden does not have the power to tear apart the world his forces comapred to the forces of the USA are very small...but if we refer to the seprate groups and indaviduals who are angry with the USA at the moment after the iraq and afgan invasion totally seprate from the bin laden issue indeed maybe...

you see to band them all together and give an equal enemy to the US army (even though truly even banded together they unfortunatly do not have the combined force to equal the forces they are against) it but gives the people a view that this war is balanced and is needed...in reality you have alot of angry people in afganistan,iraq and iran who dont like the fact that USA is stepping o there soil...you see the argument is the same from there side as it is from the USA reacting to one attack on there soil...multiply 9/11 by a 1000 and that is what these people are reacting to...

before the invasion of afgan and iraq all you had were a bunch of extremists with crazy views...now mixed up with them you have fathers and sons and brothers who are not happy that there land and famalies have been torn apart...mix them up a little with trouble causers and you have hell for the innocent that live in those regions....

 

[genki]

unfortunately there is always innocent people who get caught in the middle. I swear if you put the politicians the very same ones calling for war on the front line their tunes will change!

 

[barney]

You permitted Bush to complete his first term, and stranger still, chose him for a second term, which gave him a clear mandate from you... to continue to murder our people in Iraq and Afghanistan," there are two ways to end the war in Iraq: "The first is from our side, and it is to continue to escalate the killing and fighting against youIt has now become clear to you and the entire world the impotence of the democratic system and how it plays with the interest of the peoples and their blood by sacrificing soldiers and populations to achieve the interests of the major corporations".
"I invite you to embrace Islam," The leaders of the West - especially Bush, [Tony] Blair, [Nicolas] Sarkozy and [Gordon] Brown - still talk about freedom and human rights with a flagrant disregard for the intellects of human beings,"

Thats it

 

[Rou]

unfortunately there is always innocent people who get caught in the middle. I swear if you put the politicians the very same ones calling for war on the front line their tunes will change!

no sons of the politicians go to war my friend that would be madness!??? :heated:

but even after many politicians were questioned about this they but give a blank answer...why ? beacuse they are here but to make mischief on the earth...they would never go to war themselves they but tworl there fingers and widen there pockets...

 

[genki]

no sons of the politicians go to war my friend that would be madness!??? :heated:

but even after many politicians were questioned about this they but give a blank answer...why ? beacuse they are here but to make mischief on the earth...they would never go to war themselves they but tworl there fingers and widen there pockets...

Word!

They are good for nothing stinking money grubbers! Atleast in some places they do try to help but in many the world can do without them.

 

[barney]

Yeah, bleedin politicians.
It's a Good Job that Pristina sits on the worlds 3rd biggest oilfeild, or the politicians would have never agreed to go in with NATO and prevent muslim kids from being decapitated and hung upside down from serb churches.

Theyre all just self self self.

 

[genki]

Yeah, bleedin politicians.
It's a Good Job that Pristina sits on the worlds 3rd biggest oilfeild, or the politicians would have never agreed to go in with NATO and prevent muslim kids from being decapitated and hung upside down from serb churches.

Theyre all just self self self.

spot on!

 

[Rou]

You permitted Bush to complete his first term, and stranger still, chose him for a second term, which gave him a clear mandate from you... to continue to murder our people in Iraq and Afghanistan," there are two ways to end the war in Iraq: "The first is from our side, and it is to continue to escalate the killing and fighting against youIt has now become clear to you and the entire world the impotence of the democratic system and how it plays with the interest of the peoples and their blood by sacrificing soldiers and populations to achieve the interests of the major corporations".
"I invite you to embrace Islam," The leaders of the West - especially Bush, [Tony] Blair, [Nicolas] Sarkozy and [Gordon] Brown - still talk about freedom and human rights with a flagrant disregard for the intellects of human beings,"

Thats it

I do not pretend to be bin ladens best friend but to read the above it clearly states "i invite you to embrace islam" i does not demand it , as stated in the quran you can never force islam on anyone. and it also states the truth that is the people of the country (USA) suffer while the corporations prosper by sacrificing soilders and populations?

it is the truth of what is happening many innocents are being killed as many good soilders just so the rich and powerful in western countries can sit in more comfort...

i see your point of view i am not blind to it that you view it as he states 1. we will fight you unless you turn muslim...

it is always good to see from many diffrent angles but think of what he is saying he knows that the war is based on money and fake (not real) democracy and the fact that bush got himself back in power twice?

2. he invites them to turn to islam that in islamic culture is quite a normal offer of peace.

obviously i see that it is viewed upon as if your not muslim we will kill you but that is not what is stated nor is that islamic and he knows that.

Do you truly beleive that if USA pulled out and left the middle east alone that osama will continue to fight usa? reffering to my earlier post he nor has the man power or weapon power to do anything of the sort..

the only reason USA is getting a bad name and is being fought by so many is beacuse of the invasion and not the words of osama that is clear to any who have looked into this war...

support for terrorists only grew by the 1000's beacuse of the wars...

afgan war - we are looking for osama then changed to we are freeing a people.

Iraq war - we saving the world from weapons of mass destruction then changed to we are taking out saddam , and finally we are saving the people from themselves.

if you wish to be honest then you will see there was no need for these wars and they are wrong, the men in the white house made a decsion to create havoc in the middle east as war is big money wether it be for oils or shares either way it brings personal gain to them.

its no secret that many politicians in the white house have shares and intrests in many companies that make weapons and supply support for war...

if bush took the tax payers money in front of them he would be stoned if he buys tanks and a percentage goes in his pocket due to being a share holder then thats legal.

this is not about being a hero nor saving anyone this is about making innocents suffer and filling pockets...innocents on both sides suffer so the rich can stay rich...

 

[Rou]

Yeah, bleedin politicians.
It's a Good Job that Pristina sits on the worlds 3rd biggest oilfeild, or the politicians would have never agreed to go in with NATO and prevent muslim kids from being decapitated and hung upside down from serb churches.

Theyre all just self self self.

Politics is never one sided no one said that every leader is bad there are the good and pressure from the good and the people does force them to step in perhaps where they dont want to but in the end they dont lose anything and they are happy as long as they lose nothing....

but for gain they will do anything...

 

[genki]

there should be a new law that forcibly puts leaders and politicians at the front line to fight with their troops. Or at the very least 1 member of their direct family.

 

[barney]

I think you'll find Rou that America isnt "In the Middle East" prior to 2003, except by the express desire of certain countries that they be there.
In Turkey as part of NATO, in Israel in very small numbers on joint training, In Kuwait in small numbers as trainers and a visable sign of the wests commitment to defending that country and Saudi from attacks by Iraq (as in 1991).

And thats it.

So America wasnt "In the middle east" prior to Bin Ladens attacks. It is a supporter of Israel. The surrounding Arab nations tried 4 times in 4 wars since '47 to wipe israel off the map, and failed. They cant do it conventinally, their armys are too poor-fighters. It has to be done politically.
The US prevents that from happening. It wont accept Israels destruction.
Thats the reason OBL started this war. He sees with Israels death, and the reclaimation of the "Holy Sites" a new caliphate..led by...ummm...who we wonder.....leading a united Ummah to jihad till Islam is supreme.

Thats his Goals. It's his stated Goals.

So his offer is entirely...surrender, or die.

 

[Rou]

I think you'll find Rou that America isnt "In the Middle East" prior to 2003, except by the express desire of certain countries that they be there.
In Turkey as part of NATO, in Israel in very small numbers on joint training, In Kuwait in small numbers as trainers and a visable sign of the wests commitment to defending that country and Saudi from attacks by Iraq (as in 1991).

And thats it.

So America wasnt "In the middle east" prior to Bin Ladens attacks. It is a supporter of Israel. The surrounding Arab nations tried 4 times in 4 wars since '47 to wipe israel off the map, and failed. They cant do it conventinally, their armys are too poor-fighters. It has to be done politically.
The US prevents that from happening. It wont accept Israels destruction.
Thats the reason OBL started this war. He sees with Israels death, and the reclaimation of the "Holy Sites" a new caliphate..led by...ummm...who we wonder.....leading a united Ummah to jihad till Islam is supreme.

Thats his Goals. It's his stated Goals.

So his offer is entirely...surrender, or die.

i ddid not view his offer in this light however if his is surrender or die then that is not islamic it is to back off or die and that is acceptable live in peace or war the choice is up to those who attack in the ending...

as for there being no presence in the middle east since WW2 there has been a presence in the middle east the creation of israel was by the hands of the uk and the USA therefore there hand was already there well before hand also i understand that they were there to help kuwait but looking at the details of why they stepped in it was due to the fact that they were asked to and also the fact that majority of the oil that was coming to the US was based in kuwait...they could not afford to lose that after that many bases were set up in kuwait and the middle east a fair trade for oil system based on high officals making deals with high stated saudis who sell them selves and there lands...

the presence in the middle east has been there since the end of ww2 and a constant hand in high officals and goverment running this is the interferance that is complained about by many muslims...

i agree that many saudis are to blame aswell and this is not overlooked by the muslim community...also i agree that those who kill innocents to try and make a point are ignorant...but what must be seen is that in the middle east there is a big hand by western powers to continue the war...war is big buisness and many are taking advantage of the innocents on both sides...

 

[barney]

Dude, you have a head on your shoulders quite clearly,If you think that the US presence is now defined by US Government officials in snap-brimmed fedoras and mirrorshades telling people how to run their country, then i suspect nothing will change your mind. But i would invite you to delve deeply into this idea, and from both sides of the coin. Good luck with it, and keep your mind as open as you can.

The US diddnt create Israel. It was a United Nations directive following the UK abandoning palastine in the face of Jewish terrorist and Palastinian terrorist civil war.

The US did what it could by supporting a "jewish homeland".But the UN was in agreement. So perhaps take out the aggro on the United Nations?

Anyway, once a fait accomplie is in place, theres the options. Fight or Talk. The Arabs have tried fighting and failed. For 30 odd years they have been trying terror and failed...so perhaps ..y'know, mayby talk now?

If Kuwait grew carrots would we have given a monkeys?
Mayby not. But it was the same nation that Pitched in within the same decade for Somalia's "oil", for Kosovo's "Oil" and gave billions to starving muslims, as it does today, every year. This is the nation that rebuilt the world out of its own pocket after WW2 destroyed it.

The Bloated Capitalist Pig-Dog yankee loves war cos it's big buisness?
I wont quote statistics at you. Check for yourself what Iraq or Afganistan costs the US financially.
Check for yourself who receives Iraq's oil money and what it's spent on.
Check for yourself if the majority of Iraqi's themselves want coalition troops there right now, Check when they want them to leave. Bear in mind when you do, that this is a nation fed on hatred of america for a generation. In everything they ever learned and everything they ever saw.

I know that the West in many ways is corrupt and isnt perfect. It makes mistakes, it makes wrong decisions, it has corruption. I know all this and yet know that it is doing its best in very trying circumstances. We are looking very clearly at the end of Humanity if this snowballs. Thats something to take seriously alright.