Lifting of Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

[Muezzin]

I don't like the word 'or'. It limits everything.

'And' is so much better. Remember the countless number of innocents killed under the Nazi regime and remember the countless innocents suffering today.

 

[glo]

I don't like the word 'or'. It limits everything.

'And' is so much better. Remember the countless number of innocents killed under the Nazi regime and remember the countless innocents suffering today.

I agree, brother.

I guess this takes us back to the original article, which mentioned the notion by some Muslims (and quite possibly others too) to call it Genocide Memorial Day rather than Holocaust Memorial Day ...

Having said that, I do find the suggestion by some that either the Holocaust didn't take place at all/has been exaggerated, or that the death of 6 million Jews isn't worth remembering very disturbing. :-\

 

[Muezzin]

I agree, brother.

I guess this takes us back to the original article, which mentioned the notion by some Muslims (and quite possibly others too) to call it Genocide Memorial Day rather than Holocaust Memorial Day ...

I don't mind. That sounds kind of 'PC gone mad' to me, but I'll know the event being referred to either way. It just seems unnecessary to me, as if some people are just trying to be difficult by changing names and things.

Having said that, I do find the suggestion by some that either the Holocaust didn't take place at all

The people who truly believe that hold an insane and outright false opinion.

has been exaggerated

Casting doubts on the number killed... I think is in extreme bad taste, but people will do it. Let them check. It's still an extremely appalling amount of people who were shoved into gas chambers, thrown into pits... To me, the principle of the genocide is the important thing, rather than the exact number. It's still a huge amount, whether it's six million or six hundred. My opinion on such things is 'Does it really matter? It's the treatment of large numbers of those people that is evil - who cares about the exact quantity of what was undeniably a large number?'

or that the death of 6 million Jews isn't worth remembering very disturbing. :-\

I find that very disturbing too. Humans have to remember the good and the bad of history. And the bad tends to be very messy and sad. Ignoring it doesn't purge it. The same goes for atrocities today. I do wish more people could understand this. Here's hoping.

 

[snakelegs]

do we really ever learn from history?

 

[crayon]

I don't think so, snakelegs.
So it just repeats itself, over and over.

 

[Muezzin]

do we really ever learn from history?

Only when it suits us, it seems.

Still, there's hope - individuals tend to learn from their and others' mistakes; it's just the group dynamic that is all wrong. Unfortunately, the group dynamic is the only one that really matters in the long run. It's just the way humans operate. Birds gotta fly, fish gotta swim...

It is possible for the individual to influence the group, so there's still hope.

 

[glo]

Muezzin, your posts are so encouraging!

Peace

 

[caroline]

There is a Haitian proverb that translates, "Hunger is more painful on feast days."

I think of that when I think of the difficulty of honoring the genocide of one group of people whose very descendants are currently carrying out the genocide of your own. What a struggle it must be to ignore that fact, even when you feel the struggles of the ancestors of the current perpetrators have been exaggerated while the slaughter of your own people is covered up, invalidated, or ignored even as we speak.

I don't think it sheds a good light on Muslims to boycott Holocaust memorial day, but I do understand the inclination and how very difficult a pill it must be to swallow. They are being asked to overlook what the current holocaust being waged against their own people while honoring the holocaust of the very people who should know better.

It's very ironic.

Injustice is hard to bear. Truly.

I'm amazed at the graciousness of these people who have found it in their hearts to lift the boycott. Really amazed...

 

[Qingu]

do we really ever learn from history?

I think we do!

I honestly think that our current society is more civilized than any in the past. I think we treat people, in general, better today than we ever have.

The entire world has collectively learned that slavery is wrong, for instance. Slavery as considered okay only a few hundred years ago (less than that in some parts of the world).

 

[Qingu]

I don't think it sheds a good light on Muslims to boycott Holocaust memorial day, but I do understand the inclination and how very difficult a pill it must be to swallow. They are being asked to overlook what the current holocaust being waged against their own people while honoring the holocaust of the very people who should know better.

I think it's slightly absurd to characterize the oppression of the Palestinians as a "Holocaust" or a "genocide."

It's oppression, but it's not genocide. The Israelis are not trying to kill every single Palestinian.

For the record, I also don't understand why Jews today complain about the Holocaust if they don't personally know anyone affected by it. My family is Jewish, but I don't feel any special connection with the Holocaust. I feel more connected to the people currently being wiped out in Darfur because that is happening while I'm alive and I wish I could do more to stop it.

 

[glo]

Hi Caroline

I don't think it sheds a good light on Muslims to boycott Holocaust memorial day, but I do understand the inclination and how very difficult a pill it must be to swallow. They are being asked to overlook what the current holocaust being waged against their own people while honoring the holocaust of the very people who should know better.
It's very ironic.

I don't quite agree with your perception.

Remembering the suffering of other people does not mean that you have to overlook the suffering of your own.
It doesn't even mean that you have to honour those people, which you may (or may not) now consider to be your enemies.
It just means that you acknowledge their past sufferings and remember them ...

Empathy is a major part of the ability of humans to live together. It's the ability to know and understand the feelings of others by relating them to one's own.
It starts by observing what is happening to somebody else, and how they respond to the situation ... and then by reflecting 'How would I feel, if it was me?' and 'What would I like to be done, if it was me?' ... and then hopefully act accordingly.

Injustice is hard to bear. Truly.

I'm amazed at the graciousness of these people who have found it in their hearts to lift the boycott. Really amazed...

You see, I am more amazed by the anger and resentment of those who implemented the boycott in the first place ...

I have found this article, which not only calls for a general Genocide Remembrance Day, but for a Muslim's Holocausts and Genocide Remembrance Day.
It is from an Islamic Site. I cannot judge the authenticity of the site in Islamic terms - I trust that somebody else here can and will alert the mods if necessary ...
I cannot even truly judge how accurate the statements , which the article makes, are. That too can be open for debate ...

But I am interested in the attitude which seems to be represented: That the Western world deliberately ignores the suffering of Muslims around the world.
I don't see that happening ... I just don't!
The papers I read here in the UK almost daily report about the trouble of innocent civilians in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, Darfur etc.

What are the views of others???
(Evidenced and rational opinions, rather than vague and slanderous comments, if at all possible!)

Peace :thankyou:

 

[Malaikah]

I know my opinion doesn't count for much, because I'm pretty ignorant in the issue, but I think it is offence that only the slaughter of the Jews is remembered instead of a collective day for everyone who suffered in the war.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you all

The Jews must have hated and feared the Germans for what they did during the war, yet the war was just six years and the holocaust stopped.

The Jewish Nation appears to be having a long term strategy of oppressing the Palestinians that does not seem to show signs of stopping.

For the holocaust to have a greater meaning for the Jewish people it should be that they do not grow into the very things that they hated and feared the most.

We are all created by the same God which means we are all brothers and sisters together.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[north_malaysian]

Greetings and peace be with you all

The Jews must have hated and feared the Germans for what they did during the war, yet the war was just six years and the holocaust stopped.

The Jewish Nation appears to be having a long term strategy of oppressing the Palestinians that does not seem to show signs of stopping.

For the holocaust to have a greater meaning for the Jewish people it should be that they do not grow into the very things that they hated and feared the most.

We are all created by the same God which means we are all brothers and sisters together.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

I do agree with you. :happy:

 

[Amadeus85]

I know my opinion doesn't count for much, because I'm pretty ignorant in the issue, but I think it is offence that only the slaughter of the Jews is remembered instead of a collective day for everyone who suffered in the war.

It's not offence for anyone. You should understand the nature of Nazi's plan, their plan was to exterminate all Jews living in Europe, not all Poles, Belarussians nor French. Jews were their ultimate aim.

 

[Amadeus85]

Greetings and peace be with you all

The Jews must have hated and feared the Germans for what they did during the war, yet the war was just six years and the holocaust stopped.

The Jewish Nation appears to be having a long term strategy of oppressing the Palestinians that does not seem to show signs of stopping.

For the holocaust to have a greater meaning for the Jewish people it should be that they do not grow into the very things that they hated and feared the most.

We are all created by the same God which means we are all brothers and sisters together.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

I dont think that comparing Holocaust and Israeli- Arab war in Middle East is a good idea. Its easy to say that nowadays IDF soldiers are new Nazis, but only if we forget that the Arab side also has their bad guys ( terrorists).

 

[Keltoi]

I think Qingu mentioned Darfur. If one wants to point to a genocide in 2007, that is the obvious target. I believe the words "genocide" and "holocaust" are thrown around a little loosely here. What is happening in Darfur is a sickening tragedy, and the world should be ashamed that more isn't being done to stop it. If any lessons were learned from the Jewish Holocaust, it should have been to never allow it to happen again.

 

[north_malaysian]

If any lessons were learned from the Jewish Holocaust, it should have been to never allow it to happen again.

Yet... it happened again ... and again.... and again.... in Cambodia, Rwanda and Darfur.:exhausted

 

[Cognescenti]

Greetings and peace be with you all

The Jews must have hated and feared the Germans for what they did during the war, yet the war was just six years and the holocaust stopped.

The war didn't just "stop". It took the lives of millions of Allied soldiers and several trillion US $. 90% of the Jews in the city of Riga were killed. Polish and German Jews didn't fare much better. It was the prototypical genocide conducted with Teutonic efficiency. Even Darfur is a kind of ersatz genocide. It doesn't seem their heart is truly in it. It seems they would be happy if all those of the oppressed group just moved to Chad and never came back.

The state of Israel can certainly play rough with their enemies, and the Palestinians are in a bad way, but yours is a ridiculous comparison. It cannot remotely be argued there is a genocide in progress.

 

[Keltoi]

I agree with Cognescenti, the Jewish Holocaust was indeed the prototypical example of genocide. It was systematic, structured, and highly efficient. Nothing has come close to that level since, and hopefully it never will again.

That being said, the genocide in Darfur is effective enough to warrant more international response.