Lifting of Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Cognescenti;

The state of Israel can certainly play rough with their enemies,

They do

and the Palestinians are in a bad way,

They are

but yours is a ridiculous comparison.

It might not be such a ridiculous comparison if you were a Palestinian living by the boarders of Israel.

It cannot remotely be argued there is a genocide in progress

If you were a Palestinian would that knowledge be any comfort to you?

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

 

[caroline]

Eric, thank you.

And to the person who said that Israel sometimes "Plays rough" I will tell you I literally gasped when I read that phrase.

In reply to the person who said they don't believe that the suffering of Muslims is ignored, clearly you do not live in the United States. There are many studies of media bias on this topic -- all you have to do is google it. US media is not just biased. It's not even just weighted in Israel's favor. We simply don't hear a single thing about Israel's crimes and yet we get every little incident from the other direction over and over and over again.

I understand that it is possible to remember the suffering of others... I also think it's good to honor the generosity of people who are willing to do this when their own people are being blown to bits by the hundreds of thousands RIGHT NOW.

Call it what you want to. There's a war on Islam and Muslim people are being slaughtered, terrorized, tortured and murdered by the hundreds of thousands at this very moment. And frankly I find it pretty Orwellian that we can make an issue out of remembering mass atrocities of the past when we haven't even stopped the ones that are happening right now.

 

[Keltoi]

Eric, thank you.

And to the person who said that Israel sometimes "Plays rough" I will tell you I literally gasped when I read that phrase.

In reply to the person who said they don't believe that the suffering of Muslims is ignored, clearly you do not live in the United States. There are many studies of media bias on this topic -- all you have to do is google it. US media is not just biased. It's not even just weighted in Israel's favor. We simply don't hear a single thing about Israel's crimes and yet we get every little incident from the other direction over and over and over again.

I understand that it is possible to remember the suffering of others... I also think it's good to honor the generosity of people who are willing to do this when their own people are being blown to bits by the hundreds of thousands RIGHT NOW.

Call it what you want to. There's a war on Islam and Muslim people are being slaughtered, terrorized, tortured and murdered by the hundreds of thousands at this very moment. And frankly I find it pretty Orwellian that we can make an issue out of remembering mass atrocities of the past when we haven't even stopped the ones that are happening right now.

There have been plenty of atrocities by both sides in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

As for the U.S. media, I think they reflect the general lack of sympathy many people in the world, not just the U.S., have for the Palestinians. Many of their problems are self-inflicted. I agree there should be more unbiased coverage, but if by "un-biased" you mean pro-Palestinian, that wouldn't be unbiased. There are plenty of bad guys around, on both sides.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

When people talk about holocaust... they would say the victims are 6 millions Jews...

How about the:

Soviet POWs - 3,300,000
Belarusians - 2,230,000
Poles - 1,800,000
Gypsies - 1,500,000
Anti-Hitler Germans - 1,500,000
Serbs - 600,000
Disabled - 400,000
Freemasons - 200,000
Spanish POWs - 16,000
Gays - 15,000
Jehovah's Witnesses - 15,000

There were Muslim victims too among the Gypsies and Serbs.

In fact many Muslims (Albanians, Turks and Bosniaks) risking themselves by helping the Jews to get out from Europe in that time....

Yes!

I mention this every time I see jews trying to monopolize holocaust guilt and get special treatment, and this happens a lot and the ultimate example is the creation of Israel at the expense of those who lived there at the time.

I too would be against holocaust day if it was about Jews only. If you're going to have a National Day of Guilt and Mourning Because We Did So Many Horrible Things in The Past then make it all inclusive and I can see it as a good thing.

 

[caroline]

There have been plenty of atrocities by both sides in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

As for the U.S. media, I think they reflect the general lack of sympathy many people in the world, not just the U.S., have for the Palestinians. Many of their problems are self-inflicted. I agree there should be more unbiased coverage, but if by "un-biased" you mean pro-Palestinian, that wouldn't be unbiased. There are plenty of bad guys around, on both sides.

That's what I'm talking about. Denial of the war on Islam doesn't even have a name. It's absolutely common place... the prevailing opinion here in the States. But you can go to jail for "holocaust denial" in some parts of the world.

Plain as the nose on your face and yet you don't see it. But, if you did, you'd understand why we're even having this discussion.

I continue to pray for the Muslim people around the world, especially in Palestine and Iraq where they are being slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands even as we speak.

 

[caroline]

Re: Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

Yes!

I mention this every time I see jews trying to monopolize holocaust guilt and get special treatment, and this happens a lot and the ultimate example is the creation of Israel at the expense of those who lived there at the time.

I too would be against holocaust day if it was about Jews only. If you're going to have a National Day of Guilt and Mourning Because We Did So Many Horrible Things in The Past then make it all inclusive and I can see it as a good thing.

A good book covering this topic: "The Holocaust Industry" by Norman Finkelstein.

 

[Eric H]

Re: Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

Greetings and peace be with you Pygoscelis, and thanks for these statistics again'

When people talk about holocaust... they would say the victims are 6 millions Jews...

How about the:

Soviet POWs - 3,300,000
Belarusians - 2,230,000
Poles - 1,800,000
Gypsies - 1,500,000
Anti-Hitler Germans - 1,500,000
Serbs - 600,000
Disabled - 400,000
Freemasons - 200,000
Spanish POWs - 16,000
Gays - 15,000
Jehovah's Witnesses - 15,000

There were Muslim victims too among the Gypsies and Serbs.

In fact many Muslims (Albanians, Turks and Bosniaks) risking themselves by helping the Jews to get out from Europe in that time....

If we are truthfully concerned about genocide and we feel horrified by human suffering and death on a large scale, then maybe we should look at how each one of us contributes to an even greater genocide today.
Thirty thousand people die needlessly every day from grinding poverty and preventable diseases. There is no brake down to say how many of these people are Jews, Muslim, atheist, Christians, they are just desperately poor people

Coffee is often advertised as a luxury product yet the coffee growers get around one penny for every jar of coffee that costs around two pounds fifty. Workers on coffee plantations earn about a dollar a day and live in dire poverty. If we paid just an extra two or three pence a jar to the growers they could pay their workers a living wage.

It is said today there are still 27 million people sold into slavery, many of them children.
Nearly half the world's chocolate is made from cocoa grown in the Cote D'Ivoire, in Africa.
12,000 children have been trafficked into slavery into cocoa farms in Cote D'Ivoire
When we buy chocolate we are being forced to be oppressors ourselves as we have no guarantee that the chocolate we eat is 'slave traffik free'

Find out more and sign the petition at http://www.stopthetraffik.org/chocolatecampaign/

So called civilised multi national companies impose harsh trading terms on the third world, simply that you and I may live in a greater degree of luxury.

About a billion people live on less than a dollar a day.
About half the world population lives on less than two dollars a day.

If you are lucky enough to earn more than fifteen dollars a day that puts you amongst the top ten percent of the richest people on Earth.

For me the most evil statistic I have heard is that the combined wealth of the three richest people is about the same as the combined wealth of the 48 poorest countries.
About a third of the world’s population live in these countries.

In the spirit of praying for a fair and just world

Eric

 

[north_malaysian]

Re: Muslim boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day

Yes!

I mention this every time I see jews trying to monopolize holocaust guilt and get special treatment, and this happens a lot and the ultimate example is the creation of Israel at the expense of those who lived there at the time.

I too would be against holocaust day if it was about Jews only.

:clever::clever::clever:

 

[Keltoi]

That's what I'm talking about. Denial of the war on Islam doesn't even have a name. It's absolutely common place... the prevailing opinion here in the States. But you can go to jail for "holocaust denial" in some parts of the world.

Plain as the nose on your face and yet you don't see it. But, if you did, you'd understand why we're even having this discussion.

I continue to pray for the Muslim people around the world, especially in Palestine and Iraq where they are being slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands even as we speak.

There is no "war on Islam". Islam seems to be at war with itself.

 

[S_87]

But by remembering the past, do we not have an opportunity to try to not make the same mistakes in the future?

As a German born some 20 years after the end of WWII, the teaching that an atrocity like the Nazi regime must never be allowed to happen again, is very deeply ingrained.
We remember that by not forgetting the past and then looking to the present and the future ...

those same people who lead these silences and reflected on the tragedies of their own countries have gone and destroyed other countries.
for example tony blair, he would have led the one minute silences, but it didnt stop him making a mark in history as a murderer of so many people.

if one wants to truly remember the past it must not be taught in a one day memorial but taught in classrooms etc. a memorial is in this case not sufficient. people need to know exactly what happened then. the details. and that is not seen on a memorial day.

 

[Cognescenti]

That's what I'm talking about. Denial of the war on Islam doesn't even have a name. It's absolutely common place... the prevailing opinion here in the States. But you can go to jail for "holocaust denial" in some parts of the world.

Plain as the nose on your face and yet you don't see it. But, if you did, you'd understand why we're even having this discussion.

I continue to pray for the Muslim people around the world, especially in Palestine and Iraq where they are being slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands even as we speak.

Before you can accuse someone of "denial of the war on Islam" it seems to me you have the burden of demonstrating its existence first.

How about these questions:

1) When did the War on Islam start?

2) Who is in charge, or if it was an "Allied" effort, where was the equivalent of the Yalta conference?

3) How is it that many Islamic states continue to make tremendous oil revenues right in the middle of the War on Islam? Oil tankers sail right up to these ports, fill up with oil and sail blythely away.

4) How is it the holiest site in Islam is virtually unguarded?

5) How come the Muslim population in the world, as we are told, continues to grow. Are those behind the War on Islam losing? It seems rathe an odd war to me.

6) How come the greatest injustices and killings of Muslims comes from other Muslims?

I could go on, but let's see what you have.

BTW...I think a "Holocost Memorial Day" is PC overkill, but the boycott was politically unwise as well.

 

[caroline]

Before you can accuse someone of "denial of the war on Islam" it seems to me you have the burden of demonstrating its existence first.

How about these questions:

1) When did the War on Islam start?

Depends on which war you're referring to. The current one probably started with the Balfour declaration and the following ethnic cleansing of Palestine. See "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" Elan Pappe'

2) Who is in charge, or if it was an "Allied" effort, where was the equivalent of the Yalta conference?

Who is in charge? Zionists, neo-conservatives, multi-national corporations and their tool is the media and special interest groups they use to control the US government. See, "The Israel Lobby" John J. Mearcheimer and Stephen M. Walt

3) How is it that many Islamic states continue to make tremendous oil revenues right in the middle of the War on Islam? Oil tankers sail right up to these ports, fill up with oil and sail blythely away.

What War on Islam? Thought you said there wasn't one. Expound. Which oil tankers? Why would all their revenues stop?

4) How is it the holiest site in Islam is virtually unguarded?

Uh... Bush/House of Saud???

5) How come the Muslim population in the world, as we are told, continues to grow. Are those behind the War on Islam losing? It seems rathe an odd war to me.

Not odd at all. The blowback (to use their own doublespeak) has created an increased awareness of Islam and thus increased curiosity. This has caused a lot of people to look into the religion that otherwise never would have. They learn about it and decide to convert.

6) How come the greatest injustices and killings of Muslims comes from other Muslims?

Oh you mean like the 700,000 + Palestinians refugees (the largest refugee group on the planet) living in camps that are invaded and attacked by Israeli soldiers, the 1 billion dollar containment (read Apartheid) wall sealing off Palestinians from the countries water supplies and the only decent agrigultural land left? You mean bulldozing neighborhoods of homes with the families still in them? You mean shooting down children in the street? You mean 700,000 Iraqis dead, slaughtered, tortured, raped, civilian men, women, and children?

You show me one single instance of a Muslim group committing any injustice even close to those. Just one.


And just a few more details: (please don't come back with the lame excuse that these bombings were accidents -- we all know the US military has the technology to aim and drop a bomb just exactly where they want it)

US bombing attacks:

Sultanpur mosque in Jalalabad, Nangarhar -- during evening prayer: 17 killed

Mosque in Kunduz city -- during friday prayer time: 23 killed

Mosque in Qalae Shater, Herat -- cluster bomb during prayer time: 63 killed.

Mosque of Ishaq Sulaiman -- 20 killed

Saqawa mosque in Mashikehel village: 4 killed

Mosque in Ahmani Kilai -- 65 killed

October, 2004 US Soldiers raided seven mosques, ransacking every room in the mosque, breaking down doors and throwing Quran books everywhere. The same scenes were repeated in Samarra, Fallujah and Bahubah.

Reading: "The War on Islam" by Enver Masud, recipient of the Human Rights Foundation Gold Award.

"Hegemony or Survival" Noam Chomsky

"The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" Ilan Pappe

And then, for your viewing pleasure, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQeiyrlTqa4

How DARE you say there is no war on Islam?

 

[Keltoi]

Caroline, all you have "proven" is the existence of conflict involving Muslims. That does not equate to some global war on Islam. I also find it very farcical that you post supposed mosque attacks by U.S. soldiers and then ask for evidence that any Muslim group has committed any such action. I dare you to do a little search to find out how many suicide bomb attacks have been carried out by Muslims upon other Muslims in the past five years alone.

*just a hint, you will probably need to create another thread just to fit them all in there.

 

[Cognescenti]

Depends on which war you're referring to. The current one probably started with the Balfour declaration and the following ethnic cleansing of Palestine. See "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine" Elan Pappe'

I am a little fuzzy on the Balfour family. Are you referring to one of the dead ones? Since the "ethnic cleansing of Palestine" by evil Zionists has now been going on for over 60 years and the Palestinian population is actually higher than when they started, perhaps they need an industrial strength cleanser?

Zionists, neo-conservatives, multi-national corporations and their tool is the media and special interest groups they use to control the US government. See, "The Israel Lobby" John J. Mearcheimer and Stephen M. Walt

Would this be General Motors or McDonalds? As the term "neo-Conservative" wasn't even invented till at least the 60's, who was in charge before then, the "pre-neocons"? Are we to believe then that Jimmy Carter was under their evil influence? How Sec. of State James Baker (Bush 41) who basically to Begin to go stuff himself? And what of the Freemasons? Surely they have something do with it?

The "Jewish media cabal" thing is so trite and tiresome to be unworthy of response. Hope your tinfoil cap is fitting nicely today.

What War on Islam? Thought you said there wasn't one. Expound. Which oil tankers? Why would all their revenues stop?

Uh... Bush/House of Saud???

Did you see Michael Moore's film at the theater or did you wait for the DVD? As you are likely an anti-captialist as well, I am thinking bootleg copy?

You show me one single instance of a Muslim group committing any injustice even close to those. Just one.

Ummm...Darfur?

Mosque in Qalae Shater, Herat -- cluster bomb during prayer time: 63 killed.

As cluster bombs are area antipersonel weapons (usually) it would be an odd thing to drop on a mosque...but, who am I to quibble. You left out the Samrra mosque, BTW, surely the US or Mossad or the Freemasons had something to do with that?

How DARE you say there is no war on Islam?

I don't know...just call me a "War on Islam Denier" kay:

 

[wilberhum]

.................................

How DARE you say there is no war on Islam?

Lets see! First there was the "Race Card". then came the "Gender Card", and now we have the "Religious Card".

Interesting. :uuh:

 

[Fishman]

The 'War on Islam' is just a bogieman that some Muslims resort to believing in when they can't take the fact that it is their fault that the Ummah is how it is today. Believing that everybody is persecuting and conspiring and trying to destroy you somehow makes you feel that you are always in the right, special. It also makes things a whole lot more simple to explain. The truth is that the real beast is not out in the jungle, but inside all of us.

 

[wilberhum]

The 'War on Islam' is just a bogieman that some Muslims resort to believing in when they can't take the fact that it is their fault that the Ummah is how it is today. Believing that everybody is persecuting and conspiring and trying to destroy you somehow makes you feel that you are always in the right, special. It also makes things a whole lot more simple to explain. The truth is that the real beast is not out in the jungle, but inside all of us.

Well stated. It is good to see a Muslim without that "Percussion Complex". :shade:

 

[Fishman]

Well stated. It is good to see a Muslim without that "Percussion Complex". :shade:

I used to have it though. I suppose even now I still have it in a way, but it is harmless as I dump excess hate on really evil people who nobody likes, such as Genghis Khan and various other Central Asian warlords that have absolutely no influence on today's world affairs. If somebody said that they wanted to bring back barbarian hordes, you wouldn't think they were an extremist, you would think they were having a laugh!

 

[caroline]

Amazing. It's like going into a Judaism forum and finding everybody denying the Holocaust.

But you can be sure THAT won't happen.

Have fun. Just remember that denying these atrocities is what allows them to continue and for that, you will someday answer to God.

 

[wilberhum]

Amazing. It's like going into a Judaism forum and finding everybody denying the Holocaust.

But you can be sure THAT won't happen.

Have fun. Just remember that denying these atrocities is what allows them to continue and for that, you will someday answer to God.

Hay, if you buy this,

And then, for your viewing pleasure, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQeiyrlTqa4

Then I have a bridge I will sell you. :uuh: