The Americanization of Islam

[syed saboor]

I just wanted to vent my frustration about what is going on in Islam nowadays. I am very conservative, but unfortunately many "degenerates," who call themselves Muslims are saying that homosexualtiy and lesbianism is allowable in Islam and women don't have to wear the hijab anymore. What is going on? It makes me sick. I go the Barnes and Noble and I see all of this garbage all the time. We have this woman among Islamic circles in America, Asma Gull Hassan, who advocates feminism in Islam, among Muslim women. She says that many of the interpretations of verses in the Koran are cultural,
which denigrate women.
Let me tell you something, men and women are different. They are not the same. Their was a book called "Brain Sex," which did away with these assumptions of men's and women's smeness. In addition, the most prominent feminists in America have been Jews, which is no coincidence.
But enough about that. My point is that I am fed up with Westernized Muslims trying to make Islam palatible to mass American public by encouraging dating and other un-Islamic behavior. Remember, Chrisitianity became the dominant religion of the Roman Empire because of the fact that it allowed itself to blend into other societies and and make their foreign practices their own. Even now, this spirit of "compatability" is permeating the churches in the sense that many Churches have gay and lesbian pastors and priests. Let's hope, Islam does not succumb to that, because I was a Muslim who became a Christian and who came back to Islam, because of all the hypocrisy in the Church regarding morality.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I just wanted to vent my frustration about what is going on in Islam nowadays. I am very conservative, but unfortunately many "degenerates," who call themselves Muslims are saying that homosexualtiy and lesbianism is allowable in Islam and women don't have to wear the hijab anymore. What is going on? It makes me sick.

You mean you just wanted to vent your homophobia?

In addition, the most prominent feminists in America have been Jews, which is no coincidence.

Or perhaps it was your hatred of the Jews?

I can see you're a live wire, and I'm sure you'll be lots of fun on the forum. Welcome.

Peace

 

[syed saboor]

Actually, I wanted to do just both, and thank you for asking. It is always a pleasure to chat.

 

[jzcasejz]

You mean you just wanted to vent your homophobia?

So what, someone is allowed to deviate from the teachings of the Qur'an and say homosexuality is allowed in Islaam? Keyword being: Islaam!

This Brother posted a perfectly reasonable thread against "Muslims" altering the religion and you label it as hatred? I guess according to you we should all as Muslims just sit down and let the alterations be made to this religion freely.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I think you could be right about some of the things you say. Not in terms of your hatreds - personally, I'm in the fortunate position of not hating anyone.

Despite perhaps being an ill-informed kaffir I would think that what Islam forbids has to stay forbidden - there's such an entrenched opposition to bida, so, really Muslims have to obey the rules set down in a very different society to any currently extant. It's as simple as that, isn't it?

Peace

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

So what, someone is allowed to deviate from the teachings of the Qur'an and say homosexuality is allowed in Islaam? Keyword being: Islaam!

I'm not suggesting that for a moment.

This Brother posted a perfectly reasonable thread against "Muslims" altering the religion and you label it as hatred?

Hating certain groups of people is an intrinsic part of Islam, is it not?

Peace

 

[جوري]

Hating certain groups of people is an intrinsic part of Islam, is it not?

Peace

Hating the act, is different than hating a group of people.. although, I'd be curious how you personally feel about pederasts? not much different from homophilia save the age of one of the participants-- and who is to say that a young altar boy of 13 with raging hormones had no say in the matter?
I'd be curious as how you feel about zoophilism, or other acts of sexual deviance? or is it an intrinsic part of atheism to love all that is degenerate?

cheers!

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Right on cue, PA. Good to see you again.

Hating the act, is different than hating a group of people.. although, I'd be curious how you personally feel about pederasts?

It's a horrible activity, but I certainly don't hate people who do it. I pity them, really. If me hating them made it less likely that they would do it, then perhaps I might.

I'd be curious as how you feel about zoophilism, or other acts of sexual deviance?

The same way. Hating people achieves nothing.

or is it an intrinsic part of atheism to love all that is degenerate?

Atheism is a belief based on a single metaphysical proposition: "there is no god."

As you well know.

Peace

 

[syed saboor]

Listen to me everybody. Wrong is wrong and right is right. All-mighty Allah made man and woman and not man and man and woman and woman estakfurallah. If we had no moral precepts do abide by, we would be doing anything we wanted. In Dostoyevsky's book, "The Brothers Karamazov," there was a quote: "without God everything is possible."
Some of you on this forum agree with what I have to say and I commend you for not being afraid to say what you want, especially in this day of political correctedness. The Quran being our guide, lays out the principle we believe in one God. You cannot abrogate that principle. Unfortunately, because of Westernization, Hollywood, MTV (here is my anti-semitism again, the founder of MTV was a Jew named Murray Rothstein, a.k.a., Summer Redstone), and a host of immoral Western influences we Muslims have been led astray.
Now it is time to come back to traditional Islam and stop following the ways of Kufr.

 

[جوري]

Greetings,

Right on cue, PA. Good to see you again.

Thanks, I won't be here much longer during the upcoming months but when opportunity knocks.. you know how it is?

It's a horrible activity, but I certainly don't hate people who do it. I pity them, really. If me hating them made it less likely that they would do it, then perhaps I might.

How is that different from my opening sentence? hating the act not the individual? I am however, glad to get you to agree that IT IS A HORRIBLE ACTIVITY, that too is how we view homosexuality! Perhaps 'society' has ingrained in you that one is a horrible activity while the other is an alternate life style? Islam defines for us morality not the 20th-21st century diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorder which by the way in the seventies had homosexuality listed right there along with other 'horrible activities'

The same way. Hating people achieves nothing.

Agreed!

Atheism is a belief based on a single metaphysical proposition: "there is no god."
As you well know.

godlessness is a doctrine all its own, so tells us the dictionary!
Not believing comes with its own set of rules and ideologies, and can be quite dogmatic as we have seen from such 'achievers' as dawkin or even our own private trolls, zoro et al. thus leading me to conclude, it is a religion all its own with disciples ranging from the partisans to the insouciants, no different than any other organized religion or ideology!
If you hang around here long enough, you'll see atheists repeating their tenets like a daily prayer and almost in unison on every thread that calls to their attention!

atheist or not = still human= still bound by the human condition!


cheers!

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Thanks, I won't be here much longer during the upcoming months but when opportunity knocks.. you know how it is?

As Philip Larkin wrote: 'Why should I let the toad work / Squat on my life?'

How is that different from my opening sentence? hating the act not the individual?

What you've expressed is the ideal. It's obvious, though, that many Muslims actually hate the individuals who commit these acts. Such as our friendly original poster.

I am however, glad to get you to agree that IT IS A HORRIBLE ACTIVITY, that too is how we view homosexuality!

Fair enough, we disagree.

Perhaps 'society' has ingrained in you that one is a horrible activity while the other is an alternate life style?

My judgement is based on how much harm an activity causes. I believe that child abuse causes harm, while homosexuality does not.

godlessness is a doctrine all its own, so tells us the dictionary!

Eh?

Not believing comes with its own set of rules and ideologies,

It emphatically does not. All sorts of possibilities are thrown up by the belief that there is no god.

If you hang around here long enough, you'll see atheists repeating their tenets like a daily prayer and almost in unison on every thread that calls to their attention!

[Quick cheap jab: I've been here longer than you...]

I suppose atheists repeat their beliefs because they believe they are true, just like people of any other faith-position.

Peace

 

[جوري]

Greetings,


As Philip Larkin wrote: 'Why should I let the toad work / Squat on my life?'

You and your larkin matter very little in my life..

What you've expressed is the ideal. It's obvious, though, that many Muslims actually hate the individuals who commit these acts. Such as our friendly original poster.

I didn't know hate crimes against homos were committed mostly by Muslims? Thanks for teaching me.. funny the other day here in the subways, it was a Muslim that jumped to the aid of a bunch of Jewish kids being assulted for being cheeky!

My judgement is based on how much harm an activity causes. I believe that child abuse causes harm, while homosexuality does not.

13 isn't considered a child least of which physiologically, I have personally assisted in the delivery of a 12 year old female..some states here in the U.S allow you to be emancipated if you are 12 and pregnant but not after you become a mother if you are still considered 'under age'... strange world with unusual laws.. I suspect they'll be subject to change at whim. This is harmful, no no it isn't, this isn't! Again Islam defines our morality not your judgement!

Eh?

Noun: atheism 'eythee`izum
The doctrine or belief that there is no God
- godlessness

really for a man whose livlihood is teaching english, surely you can look up the definition of a word?

It emphatically does not. All sorts of possibilities are thrown up by the belief that there is no god.

Yes the possibilities are quite organized and have the same reponses, much like a religious doctrine!

[Quick cheap jab: I've been here longer than you...]

I suppose atheists repeat their beliefs because they believe they are true, just like people of any other faith-position.

great.. at least we can get an honest assessment out of you!

cheers

 

[Isambard]

godlessness is a doctrine all its own, so tells us the dictionary!

No its not.

Not believing comes with its own set of rules and ideologies, and can be quite dogmatic as we have seen from such 'achievers' as dawkin or even our own private trolls, zoro et al.

No it doesnt.

thus leading me to conclude, it is a religion all its own with disciples ranging from the partisans to the insouciants, no different than any other organized religion or ideology!

Perhaps you should give your definition of "religion" as all dictionary definitions on religion disagrees with your arguement

If you hang around here long enough, you'll see atheists repeating their tenets like a daily prayer and almost in unison on every thread that calls to their attention!

You mean correcting you? Well of course. Spreading ignorance is typically seen as a bad thing

In relation to the topic, Im curious about one thing. How is hating the "acts" perfectly okay in your book, yet when someone hates Islam for being/promoting 'evil', the person is seen as a prejudice islamaphobe?

 

[جوري]

here is the article by the way which was on the local news!


Hate Crime on the NYC Subway
view links
Submitted by mole333 on 15 December 2007 - 1:22pm.
anti-Semitism | Christian extremists | subway
RatingReporting on this a bit late...this happened a week ago, but slipped my mind until reminded of it by an email from the Anti-Defamation League

According to the FBI, hate crimes are on the rise again, up nearly 8% in 2006. This month a particularly nasty group of bigots in New York City attacked four Jews on the subway because those Jews had the unmittigated NERVE to say "Happy Hanukkah."

From Haaretz:

On [December 7th], Four Jewish subway riders who wished other people Happy Hanukkah were pelted with anti-Semitic remarks before being beaten, New York police and prosecutors said.

The incident was being investigated as a possible hate crime.

The four were on a train in Manhattan on Friday night, during the eight-day Jewish Festival of Lights, when they were approached by a group of 10 people who offered holiday greetings. The victims responded, Happy Hanukkah and were assaulted by the larger group, police said Tuesday.

Police caught up with the train in Brooklyn and arrested eight men and two women, aged 19 and 20. They were arraigned Saturday on charges of assault, menacing, riot, harassment and disorderly conduct, the Brooklyn district attorney's office said.

The case was being handled by the office's civil rights bureau, and charges could be upgraded to hate crimes, prosecutors said. The two men and two women who were attacked had bruises and welts on their faces and heads but were not hospitalized, police said.

One of the men charged, Joseph Jirovec, pleaded guilty last year to attempted robbery as a hate crime and was awaiting sentencing, prosecutors said. Jirovec, who is white, was part of a group that yelled racial epithets and assaulted two black teenagers in Brooklyn, prosecutors said.

Clearly, Joseph Jirovec is one of New York's model citizens. Those Jews should have just kept their mouths shut and kept their ****ed Hanukkah to themselves. Can't have jews feeling comfortable being Jewish in PUBLIC, can we?

Not sure why, but one aspect of this disgusting event that has been under reported is that a Muslim New Yorker jumped to the defense of the Jews being attacked by the bigots. I think this deserves mention since it is in sharp contrast to the intolerance shown by the gang of bigots. From International CNN (which is MUCH better than American CNN!):

Muslim man jumped to the aid of three Jewish subway riders after they were attacked by a group of young people who objected to one of the Jews saying "Happy Hanukkah," a spokeswoman for the three said Wednesday.

[The] altercation on the Q train began when somebody yelled out "Merry Christmas," to which rider Walter Adler responded, "Happy Hanukkah," said Toba Hellerstein...

One member of the group allegedly yelled, "Oh, Hanukkah. That's the day that the Jews killed Jesus," she said.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: This shows the stupidity of these bigots who clearly have NO IDEA what Hanukkah really is. Hanukkah celebrates the defeat of Syrian Greeks by the Jews, an event that occurred well before Jesus was even born. Way to go bigot! Show the world how dumb you are!]

When Adler tried to intercede, a male member of the group punched him, she said.

Another passenger, Hassan Askari -- a Muslim student from Bangladesh -- came to Adler's aid, and the group began physically and verbally assaulting him, Hellerstein said.

"A Muslim-American saved us when our own people were on the train and didn't do anything," Adler said.

http://www.dailygotham.com/blog/mole333/hate_crime_on_the_nyc_subway

 

[The_Prince]

In relation to the topic, Im curious about one thing. How is hating the "acts" perfectly okay in your book, yet when someone hates Islam for being/promoting 'evil', the person is seen as a prejudice islamaphobe?

well people who hate Islam are by nature Islamophobes, erm thats what the term is for....they dont want to be near Islam or Muslims, hence the the term Islamophobia, such a name isnt an insult, its a normal fact.....

thats why they ban hijabs, make Muslims go through hell before getting a mosque permit and on and on....

so how is calling someone who hates Islam and Islamphobe a bad label when its an actual fact? hmmmmm.....

 

[Isambard]

well people who hate Islam are by nature Islamophobes, erm thats what the term is for....they dont want to be near Islam or Muslims, hence the the term Islamophobia, such a name isnt an insult, its a normal fact.....

thats why they ban hijabs, make Muslims go through hell before getting a mosque permit and on and on....

so how is calling someone who hates Islam and Islamphobe a bad label when its an actual fact? hmmmmm.....

I said seen as, meaning in the perception of others. If folks here are okay to be homophobes, then why isnt it okay to be an Islamaphobe? I mean they dont hate you per-say, they merely hate the 'act'kay:

 

[جوري]

Didn't I ask you to take a hike and particpate only after pubertal changes have taken effect?

In relation to the topic, Im curious about one thing. How is hating the "acts" perfectly okay in your book, yet when someone hates Islam for being/promoting 'evil', the person is seen as a prejudice islamaphobe?

Where have I complained that anyone is prejudiced or Islamophobic?..

I think those who know me long enough on this forum, acknowledge that I couldn't give a flying fig who hates or loves Islam. Go mature your thoughts by way of fine wine instead of rotted cheese so I can make some sense of your braying which I can only liken to the characteristics of donkeys!


cheers!

 

[Isambard]

Didn't I ask you to take a hike and particpate only after pubertal changes have taken effect?

Venomous as as always

Where have I complained that anyone is prejudiced or Islamophobic?..

Where did I say you complained? Its meant as a general question for all the muslim members of IF.

I think those who know me long enough on this forum, acknowledge that I couldn't give a flying fig who hates or loves Islam.

Thats nice

Go mature your thoughts by way of fine wine instead of rotted cheese so I can make some sense of your braying which I can only liken to the characteristics of donkeys!

Now now PA, play nice. Dont make me start quoting rule violations:skeleton:

 

[جوري]

Venomous as as always

Eh, I do what I can...

Where did I you complained? Its meant as a general question for all the muslim members of IF.

I am afraid that is a little unintelligible, and I pride myself of being able decrypt even morse code... if another member, Muslim or otherwise can understand this by all means take the stage!

Thats nice

:coolious:

Now now PA, play nice. Dont make me start quoting rule violations

Oh thank God for your presence here.. the army of leningrad can learn a thing or two from your observance of forum rules :coolious:


cheers!

 

[The_Prince]

I said seen as, meaning in the perception of others. If folks here are okay to be homophobes, then why isnt it okay to be an Islamaphobe? I mean they dont hate you per-say, they merely hate the 'act'kay:

be an Islamphobe, who stops you? theres full of them in the west, i dont see anyone telling them its disallowed, Islamophobes though have decieved themselves into thinking that being one is disallowed when in reality its not....................

and most Islamophobes ive seen hate the person, not the act alone or belief.