Religious scholars mull Flying Spaghetti Monster

[Chuck]

Greetings,


Yet another person who just hasn't got it. FSM is more about ridiculing the teaching of Intelligent Design in science classes.

People: here is the letter that started it all. Have a read of it, remember that it's not entirely serious, and see if you begin to understand.

Peace

Alright, I stand corrected, it was originally written against teaching ID, however, now it normally comes up in the discussions of believe in God.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Alright, I stand corrected, it was originally written against teaching ID, however, now it normally comes up in the discussions of believe in God.

I see. Perhaps that's true, but the people who use it that way (mainly atheists, I would imagine?) should realise that that is just a side issue with the FSM. A better approach on the burden of proof question would be to use Russell's Celestial Teapot or the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

These things appear to be silly, and they are, but they each make quite subtle and important philosophical points.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

The only problem I see with analogies such as FSM, The Celestial Teapot and the Invisible Pink Unicorn is that the purpose for the analogy is rapidly lost and all that remains is seen as sarcasm about what many people hold dear.

 

[chosen]

why would this be of any concern to anyone...atheist for ever have been using reasoning like this to prove there point...and guess what???? If thats what they choose to believe..so be it!!!!..but people with a love and faith in god will never be swayed by such arguments..

 

[Qingu]

why would this be of any concern to anyone...atheist for ever have been using reasoning like this to prove there point...and guess what???? If thats what they choose to believe..so be it!!!!..but people with a love and faith in god will never be swayed by such arguments..

It doesn't seem like people with faith will be swayed with arguments, period.

Most people have faith before they have any logical reason to believe.

 

[Muezzin]

It doesn't seem like people with faith will be swayed with arguments, period.

Most people have faith before they have any logical reason to believe.

Faith by its very nature must transcend logic.

Though why certain people regard faith (as a concept) with scorn is quite beyond me. Do they not dream? Do they not hope? Do they not aspire?

 

[Qingu]

Faith by its very nature must transcend logic.

Though why certain people regard faith (as a concept) with scorn is quite beyond me. Do they not dream? Do they not hope? Do they not aspire?

I regard faith with scorn because people with faith think that their faith transcends logic.

If I told you that I have faith that I am Napoleon Bonaparte and that I conquered Europe—and that my faith necessarily transcends any logical arguments to the contrary—what exactly would you think about my faith?

I'm guessing you'd think my faith is a cover for my unwillingness to face the fact that I may be wrong, or delusional.

Edit: by the way, you can have hope, dreams, and aspirations without faith.

 

[chosen]

I disagree with you..take the bible..you can say it is fabricated...but with all of its phrophecies that have come true..how could anyone know these things would have come to pass..it is written that before the end mankind would develope a means of instant communication...which is what we are doing right now,,,it fortells the end and reformation of the state of israel..it talks about mankind developing weapons so destructive that we will have the means to destroy the entire planet...these things were written thousands of years ago..who then, but god could know these things would come to pass..the very fact that these things among others were know in the time of the bible proves to me the exsistance of god...so my faith is not blind..my faith is based in the FACT..that know one in that age could have predicted such things..

 

[Muezzin]

I regard faith with scorn because people with faith think that their faith transcends logic.

Faith as a concept does transcend logic. That's just how it works.

If I told you that I have faith that I am Napoleon Bonaparte and that I conquered Europe—and that my faith necessarily transcends any logical arguments to the contrary—what exactly would you think about my faith?

I'm guessing you'd think my faith is a cover for my unwillingness to face the fact that I may be wrong, or delusional.

Perhaps owing to my own idiosyncracies, I'd think you're a pretty charming and amusing individual, but I wouldn't try to assert any superiority over you, whether or not your faith is logical. Unless of course, you as an individual were trying to harm me. If not... hey, whatever floats your boat. You'd be great at parties.

But seriously, I think putting too much faith (ha!) in logic is a mistake, because, if used excessively, it leads to superiority complexes, which I hate as a concept. Theistic types tend to get high and mighty too, and I also hate their behaviour resulting from such complexes. I just find it puzzling how certain athiests (and not you, if I'm misunderstanding you) attempt to cloak their own superiority complex under the guise of 'Logic'. You know the type of thinking - 'I'm more logical than these primitives, therefore, in my heart of hearts, I believe I'm better than them'. Such a pitiful mindset. So I trust you do not possess it.

Edit: by the way, you can have hope, dreams, and aspirations without faith.

Aren't they all just forms of faith, when it comes down to it? Isn't hope as a concept merely a delusion? Yet such delusions drive our actions - and indeed, if we lack such delusions, we're regarded as stagnant or abnormal.

Logic has its place. Emotion and Imagination should not be expelled to make room for it, though. I fear that, by waging a war on religion's place in society, this is exactly what certain people are attempting to do.

 

[Belief_is_Power]

Aww more athiest b.s from wilberhum. this guy never stops. Yawn!!!!

 

[chosen]

why would you view laughter of children as revenge...who would view this this way...if we all work for peace we should rejoice in the laughter of eachothers children..

 

[wilberhum]

Aww more athiest b.s from wilberhum. this guy never stops. Yawn!!!!

Just trying to instill some intelligence in people like you.

Take off the Faith Blinders off, look at it all. :thumbs_up

 

[chosen]

it must be terrible living not having faith in god..not believing that all this madness on earth will eventually work its way to eternal reward for those who believe..what do you believe will happen to you when you die..how do you find inner peace when someone close to you passes away????? believe what you choose..but when someone I love dies..i am saddened that we have parted but I rejoice in knowing there next waking moment they will be in the company of the lord...

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you czgibson;

People: here is the letter that started it all. Have a read of it, remember that it's not entirely serious, and see if you begin to understand.

Thank you for the link and I found this gem……

We feel strongly that the overwhelming scientific evidence pointing towards evolutionary processes is nothing but a coincidence, put in place by Him.

This links exactly to my previous post proving that the theory of evolution is total fiction that depends on the FSM.

Ahhh now I understand, atheist actually like the spaghetti monster so it must be true.

Atheists think spaghetti can fly now I understand the thinking behind atheism.

So evolution is happening, extrapolate evolution back to no life. Extrapolate back to spaghetti having no beginning and the theory of evolution hangs on the truth of the spaghetti monster.

It is now time for atheist to throw science, rational thinking and logic out the window.

In the spirit of searching for truth

Eric

 

[Qingu]

I disagree with you..take the bible..you can say it is fabricated...but with all of its phrophecies that have come true..how could anyone know these things would have come to pass..

Yeah, how could people in the 6th century B.C. know that the city of Tyre would be destroyed by Nebuchadnezer forever and never be rebuilt? Truly the Bible's prophecies are never wrong.

so my faith is not blind..my faith is based in the FACT..that know one in that age could have predicted such things..

Might want to look up Tyre on Google Maps.

 

[chosen]

your actually very cute...and yes I will look that up...but sorry I still stand behind what I said and truley I always will....question...as spontaneous generation has been SCIENTIFICALLY proven impossible...tell me how did the first speck of matter come to be????

 

[Grace Seeker]

It doesn't seem like people with faith will be swayed with arguments, period.

Most people have faith before they have any logical reason to believe.

I'll bet you truly believe that too, Qingu.

 

[Qingu]

Faith as a concept does transcend logic. That's just how it works.

I'm saying that's a bad thing.

Perhaps owing to my own idiosyncracies, I'd think you're a pretty charming and amusing individual, but I wouldn't try to assert any superiority over you, whether or not your faith is logical.

To be frank, I don't believe you. I think you'd think I was a severely disturbed individual.

More troubling, let's say that my faith that I am Napolean means that I also believe everyone should now submit to my own Napoleanic Code of laws, since I conquered them two centuries ago. What would you say to me then? "You'd be great at parties"?

Unless of course, you as an individual were trying to harm me. If not... hey, whatever floats your boat. You'd be great at parties.

But that's the problem. Many people with faith are actively trying to harm people, based only on their faith. Even more people make important political decisions based only on their faith—how many Christian evangelicals voted for Bush for that reason?

But seriously, I think putting too much faith (ha!) in logic is a mistake, because, if used excessively, it leads to superiority complexes, which I hate as a concept. Theistic types tend to get high and mighty too, and I also hate their behaviour resulting from such complexes.

Superiority concepts like what? "I'm smarter than you"? "I think you're beliefs are wrong?"

I don't think this signals a superiority complex, I think it's just how people debate and argue.

And I think this kind of statement is entirely different than something like "I believe I am chosen by God, but you deserve to be tortured forever in hell because you don't believe what I believe."

I just find it puzzling how certain athiests (and not you, if I'm misunderstanding you) attempt to cloak their own superiority complex under the guise of 'Logic'. You know the type of thinking - 'I'm more logical than these primitives, therefore, in my heart of hearts, I believe I'm better than them'. Such a pitiful mindset. So I trust you do not possess it.

I don't think I'm better than anyone, in any intrinsic sense. I think I am right and you are wrong, though, about a great deal of things. And I'm sure you feel the same way about me. (I'm sure we probably agree on a lot of things too!)

Aren't they all just forms of faith, when it comes down to it? Isn't hope as a concept merely a delusion?

No! You can hope for something without believing that it will necessarily happen. I hope that my sick cat will get better if I give him medicine. I don't have "faith" that he will get better if I give him medicine, though, because obviously he might not get better at all.

Yet such delusions drive our actions - and indeed, if we lack such delusions, we're regarded as stagnant or abnormal.

I will agree that most, if not all people—including atheists—harbor various delusions. I am probably deluding myself about a great number of things.

I disagree that delusions are necessary to live one's life. Especially religious delusions. I also believe many delusions are detrimental to oneself and society (especially religious delusions).

Logic has its place. Emotion and Imagination should not be expelled to make room for it, though. I fear that, by waging a war on religion's place in society, this is exactly what certain people are attempting to do.

I don't think faith is at all necessary for emotion or imagination. Can you explain exactly why you think it is?

I'd actually say many forms of religious faith limit your imagination and your ability to experience genuine emotions. Many religions, including Islam, force you to suppress certain emotions instead of explore them. Islam also prohibits many forms of artwork as "haram." When you have faith in a narrow set of scriptures, there is the idea that your imagination and your emotions can go here, to the limits proscribed by your God—but no further.

 

[Qingu]

I'll bet you truly believe that too, Qingu.

But I could be wrong!

 

[Qingu]

your actually very cute...

You haven't even seen me in person!

and yes I will look that up...but sorry I still stand behind what I said and truley I always will

Even if you're wrong?

Ezekial 26 prophecies that God will make city of Tyre "a bare rock; you shall be a place for spreading nets. You shall never again be rebuilt, for I Yahweh have spoken, says the Lord GOD."

Not only that, the prophecy is explicit about who will be carrying out God's destruction of Tyre: Nebuchadnezzer.

Here is a photograph of Tyre.

....question...as spontaneous generation has been SCIENTIFICALLY proven impossible...tell me how did the first speck of matter come to be????

First of all, spontaneous generation is the ancient belief that rats and bugs would magically come into being if you left rotten food out.

Secondly, your question doesn't make sense, because matter can not be created or destroyed. Matter has always existed. It's like you're asking me "how did God come to be"?