100% proof that jesus is NOT god

[IntroC]

All the proof you need!!!!LINK REMOVED PROMOTES A RELIGION OTHER THAN ISLAM

 

[جوري]

whaooooooo that was convincing
if you can contribute by way of 'proof' please do so, this site isn't for promoting your religion..

cheers

 

[Whatsthepoint]

All the proof you need!!!!http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/jesus-is-god.htm

I think the signature of the poster above you says it all...

 

[*Hana*]

(Luke 3:21-22 NASB)

(John 14:26 NASB)

Mark 13:11 NASB)

(1 Cor 6:19 NASB)

(Eph 1:13 NASB)

These are only a few of the verses that deal with the Holy Spirit. In was in this context that the disciples understood what Christ was referring to when He spoke of the "Comforter" who will be with them.

Peace Keltoi:

(Luke 3:21-22 NASB)

I guess the first problem I would have with this verse is the fact it came BEFORE Jesus said, “…for if I do not go, he will not come unto you…”

(John 14:26 NASB)

In John 14, Jesus tells us that the comforter will come and teach us all things and will remind us of the teachings of Jesus.

The Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest codex of the bible, does not translate Paraklaytos pneuma to “Holy Ghost” or “Holy Spirit”. It translates it as “The comforter, the spirit”. This, in no way, can be taken to be divine. The word “holy” had been added later.

Jesus said he would send ANOTHER comforter….who was the first? In 1 John 2:1, it uses the word “advocate” to describe Jesus, however, in Greek, the word is Paraklaytos. So, Jesus has to be the first comforter and he’s sending another, which means a never before sent, comforter and he will be with us forever, (meaning his teachings).

This cannot be referring to the Holy Spirt.

Mark 13:11 NASB)

This verse, in English, only refers to the Holy Ghost and in no way implies a new comforter is speaking. So, I’m not really sure why you have included this verse as “proof” this is the Comforter.

(1 Cor 6:19 NASB) (Eph 1:13 NASB)

Jesus, did not teach this. These are the words of Paul who was never taught by Jesus. Still, this doesn’t say anything about the Holy Ghost being the new comforter.

There was an early Christian sect known as Montanists, (around 150 AD). They got their name from their founder Montanus. This group was rejected for many reasons, but one was because he not only claimed to receive revelation directly from the Holy Ghost, but also claimed to be the paraclete (comforter) from the Gospel of John.

Early Christians understood the Holy Ghost/Spirit and Comforter to be 2 different entities…not one and the same.

So, that being said (typed), anything I note here isn't going to change your understanding and belief, so if nothing else, I hope it gives you some insight as to how we look at these verses and why we can't accept the Holy Ghost/Spirit as being the Comforter promised by Jesus, pbuh.

Peace,
Hana

 

[snakelegs]

All the proof you need!!!!LINK REMOVED PROMOTES A RELIGION OTHER THAN ISLAM
aha! now i know jesus is god! and all along i thought God was one!
thanks for clearning up my maths.

 

[truemuslim]

^^^ god IS one.. bible has proof that jesus ISNT god and IS god.. so its all a lie.. bible is a lie they cant make up there minds

 

[Keltoi]

Peace Keltoi:

(Luke 3:21-22 NASB)

I guess the first problem I would have with this verse is the fact it came BEFORE Jesus said, “…for if I do not go, he will not come unto you…”

(John 14:26 NASB)

In John 14, Jesus tells us that the comforter will come and teach us all things and will remind us of the teachings of Jesus.

The Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest codex of the bible, does not translate Paraklaytos pneuma to “Holy Ghost” or “Holy Spirit”. It translates it as “The comforter, the spirit”. This, in no way, can be taken to be divine. The word “holy” had been added later.

Jesus said he would send ANOTHER comforter….who was the first? In 1 John 2:1, it uses the word “advocate” to describe Jesus, however, in Greek, the word is Paraklaytos. So, Jesus has to be the first comforter and he’s sending another, which means a never before sent, comforter and he will be with us forever, (meaning his teachings).

This cannot be referring to the Holy Spirt.

Mark 13:11 NASB)

This verse, in English, only refers to the Holy Ghost and in no way implies a new comforter is speaking. So, I’m not really sure why you have included this verse as “proof” this is the Comforter.

(1 Cor 6:19 NASB) (Eph 1:13 NASB)

Jesus, did not teach this. These are the words of Paul who was never taught by Jesus. Still, this doesn’t say anything about the Holy Ghost being the new comforter.

There was an early Christian sect known as Montanists, (around 150 AD). They got their name from their founder Montanus. This group was rejected for many reasons, but one was because he not only claimed to receive revelation directly from the Holy Ghost, but also claimed to be the paraclete (comforter) from the Gospel of John.

Early Christians understood the Holy Ghost/Spirit and Comforter to be 2 different entities…not one and the same.

So, that being said (typed), anything I note here isn't going to change your understanding and belief, so if nothing else, I hope it gives you some insight as to how we look at these verses and why we can't accept the Holy Ghost/Spirit as being the Comforter promised by Jesus, pbuh.

Peace,
Hana

Early Christians did not see the Holy Spirit and the Comforter to be two different entities at all, and I'm a little confused as to how you came to that conclusion in the first place.

I also find it odd that you ignore the most telling part of the passage many Muslims wish to believe refers to Muhammed...

John 14:16 —" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth". Muhammed wasn't alive until 500 years later..how could Muhammed be with the disciples when he wasn't even born?

John 14:17 — "But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you". Another obvious problem for those who wish to believe this verse is in reference to Muhammed. Not to mention the fact that Muhammed cannot dwell inside of them...what can? A Spirit..namely the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." Another issue here...Muhammed never taught the disciples anything, and most certainly did not remind them of what Christ said.

and finally...

John 16:14 — He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you." There is that pesky little word again...SPIRIT

Jesus is speaking to His disciples knowing it was near the end of their time together. These verses are directed to the disciples and they are about the disciples, not some future "prophet"...

 

[snakelegs]

^^^ god IS one.. bible has proof that jesus ISNT god and IS god.. so its all a lie.. bible is a lie they cant make up there minds

you can't honestly expect a christian to agree that jesus is not God!
their religion is based on it.

 

[Keltoi]

you can't honestly expect a christian to agree that jesus is not God!
their religion is based on it.

I don't know...that post was so convincing my faith was almost shattered...

*sarcasm of course*

 

[جوري]

John 14:16 —" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth". Muhammed wasn't alive until 500 years later..how could Muhammed be with the disciples when he wasn't even born?

I am curious as to how the holy spirit was a comforter? further how is he 'another' when you claim that the 'holy spirit' is one and the same with God who is also Jesus? was God confused at to his three parts, and preferred to play hide and seek?

John 14:17 — "But you know him for he lives with you and will be in you". Another obvious problem for those who wish to believe this verse is in reference to Muhammed. Not to mention the fact that Muhammed cannot dwell inside of them...what can? A Spirit..namely the Holy Spirit.

'Periclytos' the Greek word for 'advocate' or 'friend' not a 'spirit' and his message is indeed living with us still, and shall forever insha'Allah!

John 14:26 — But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." Another issue here...Muhammed never taught the disciples anything, and most certainly did not remind them of what Christ said.

lol.. and what did the 'holy spirit' teach them? Do you always reflect on the literal or only when suitable for a moot point? Did the holy spirit meet up with the disciples and speak to them of Jesus?

and finally...

John 16:14 — He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you." There is that pesky little word again...SPIRIT

interesting, that is if Periclytos actually denoted 'spirit' which doesn't!

Jesus is speaking to His disciples knowing it was near the end of their time together. These verses are directed to the disciples and they are about the disciples, not some future "prophet"...

So you admit that christianity was only meant for the disciples? I am glad you wrote that, and I agree.. Jesus was only sent for the lost sheep of bani Israel not for man-kind!

cheers

 

[جوري]

you can't honestly expect a christian to agree that jesus is not God!
their religion is based on it.

I have personally no problems if they think Jesus is God, or 'Holy spirit' is God, or the pope or Mary or whomever, I just expect that they admit that, such a conclusion has positively nothing to do with Monotheism!


peace

 

[Amadeus85]

I have personally no problems if they think Jesus is God, or 'Holy spirit' is God, or the pope or Mary or whomever, I just expect that they admit that, such a conclusion has positively nothing to do with Monotheism!


peace

Christians believed in one God hundred years before Muahmmed was born and before islam was created. Thats my opinion. Peace.

 

[snakelegs]

I have personally no problems if they think Jesus is God, or 'Holy spirit' is God, or the pope or Mary or whomever, I just expect that they admit that, such a conclusion has positively nothing to do with Monotheism!


peace

this too, they will never agree to. they are very advanced in higher maths!

 

[جوري]

this too, they will never agree to. they are very advanced in higher maths!

gotcha--:X

 

[Keltoi]

I am curious as to how the holy spirit was a comforter? further how is he 'another' when you claim that the 'holy spirit' is one and the same with God who is also Jesus? was God confused at to his three parts, and preferred to play hide and seek?



'Periclytos' the Greek word for 'advocate' or 'friend' not a 'spirit' and his message is indeed living with us still, and shall forever insha'Allah!


lol.. and what did the 'holy spirit' teach them? Do you always reflect on the literal or only when suitable for a moot point? Did the holy spirit meet up with the disciples and speak to them of Jesus?


interesting, that is if Periclytos actually denoted 'spirit' which doesn't!


So you admit that christianity was only meant for the disciples? I am glad you wrote that, and I agree.. Jesus was only sent for the lost sheep of bani Israel not for man-kind!

cheers

Here we go again. I have to assume this is a serious reading comprehension issue or ignorance truly is bliss.


1. How was the Holy Spirit a Comforter? Because the Holy Spirit would indwell within them, guide them, and be a reminder of Christ's words to them. The verses I cited earlier spell that out fairly clearly.

2. Christ referred to "another" because His time with the disciples was nearly up. "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18 Yes, sometimes you have to read a little bit further to understand things...

3. Parakletos: an intercessor, counselor, advocate, comforter. What Christ is speaking of is a change in roles. No longer will Christ be among them in the flesh, but He will remain with them in Spirit. If you really wish to dwell over the Greek translation, the Greek word used here(another) is actually allos and not heteros....allos in this context would mean another of equal quality, and not heteros, which means of different quality. Christ was speaking of an entity equal to Himself, thereby God.

4. What did the Holy Spirit teach? As Christ Himself states, the Holy Spirit will remind them of all He has said, as the Spirit will dwell within them. "Dwell within" being the key phrase there.

5. Do I admit that Christianity was only meant for the disciples? Is this another example of bad reading comprehension or just self-imposed ignorance? I stated that in these verses Christ is speaking to and about His disciples. He wasn't making some cryptic prophecy concerning some future prophet.

 

[جوري]

Here we go again. I have to assume this is a serious reading comprehension issue or ignorance truly is bliss.

perhaps a dash of both, but from your end? :sunny:

1. How was the Holy Spirit a Comforter? Because the Holy Spirit would indwell within them, guide them, and be a reminder of Christ's words to them. The verses I cited earlier spell that out fairly clearly.

A great job the holy spirit did, considering you have no two bibles that are actually true to what Jesus taught!

2. Christ referred to "another" because His time with the disciples was nearly up. "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18 Yes, sometimes you have to read a little bit further to understand things...

Further reading doesn't begin to address the flaws that lie therein...Seems like a God with many identity crisis?

3. Parakletos: an intercessor, counselor, advocate, comforter. What Christ is speaking of is a change in roles. No longer will Christ be among them in the flesh, but He will remain with them in Spirit. If you really wish to dwell over the Greek translation, the Greek word used here(another) is actually allos and not heteros....allos in this context would mean another of equal quality, and not heteros, which means of different quality. Christ was speaking of an entity equal to Himself, thereby God.

or 'another' like him as in a humble 'man' not a God or a spirit. ahhhhhhhhhhhh

4. What did the Holy Spirit teach? As Christ Himself states, the Holy Spirit will remind them of all He has said, as the Spirit will dwell within them. "Dwell within" being the key phrase there.

so we should ignore teach?

5. Do I admit that Christianity was only meant for the disciples? Is this another example of bad reading comprehension or just self-imposed ignorance? I stated that in these verses Christ is speaking to and about His disciples. He wasn't making some cryptic prophecy concerning some future prophet.

Again, I'll go for both, but from your end..

cheers

 

[InToTheRain]

Proof "FOR ME" that He(AS) wasn't God:

1) He never claimed to be God (I'm talking about the Red Letters)

2) You can't be God and Man AKA Mangod at the same time! if you change a clay which is spherical to a sqaure, You can't claim that sqaure is still "Round" hence he was either a man or God! Decide!

If you claim he was God when he came down, it means he GOD DIED! DIEEED I TELL YOU DIEED. And both christians and Muslims agree that's impossible, therefore he was a MAN!

3) The whole "kill a sinless man for the crime of mankind" is just too unjust. I don't see why a sinless man has to pay for rest of mankinds SIN!

4) As we all know (well the Muslims anyway oh the Bible wasn't preserved, it was made some 300 years later after the death of Jesus(AS). The Bible was never it the hands of the People, it was always in the hands of the Church. It was also written in a dead Language (Aramaic/Greek?) unlike Arabic hence the preservation decreased. Therefore there are MASS errors in it! Even the Bible itself says in Chapter 8 verse 8 of the book of Jeremiah that there Scribes who wrote it made it into a LIE:


8 "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. 9 The wise men shall be put to shame, they shall be dismayed and taken; lo, they have rejected the word of the LORD, and what wisdom is in them? "

5) The manner and language they used were such that they would call God Father. Now if you are going to follow it literally then why don't the christians also call themselves Sons of God? That's what Jesus called them according to this verse:

Blessed are the peace makers they are called sons of God (Mathew 5:19)

And I believe SisterAmbrosia touched on the rest already.

 

[Mikayeel]

why would god take the form of a human? Humans eat and ''poo'' very not god like characteristics wouldnt you agree? if god wanted to come down in a form that we can see then surely it wouldnt be a human?? it would be something much higher than that!! and something much more perfect...
why did jesus eat? Why did he use the bathroom?(we as humans are ashamed of that, thats why we do our business in a private area) if he was god than surely he woudnt need doing all this..?

wa allahu a3lam

salam

 

[جوري]

God couldn't relate to the humans he created so in a sacrificial moment decided to take the human plunge, but also wanted to be a ghost/spirit so he can do an annunciation of himself... in the process taking a rest and a break from the cosmos and the creation to be an infant, suckle, eat, know of a loving mother, d a m n trees that didn't brear fruit in the earth he created and then die so he can absolve us ingrates from our sins, and so long as you accept that you'll have a carte blanche to all the sins you can indulge in.. just so long as you don't listen to 'false prophets' that ask you to worship the one God!

 

[YusufNoor]

I don't see how you come away with the idea that those verse point to more than one Holy Spirit...they are speaking about the one and only Spirit of God. What Christ was addressing was the idea that His leaving would dishearten His disciples, which is why He reminded them of the Holy Spirit which would always be with them.

John 14:16 —" And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth".

there are plenty of references to the Holy Spirit assisting Jesus before he left, ERGO ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT would have to be sent to fulfill the verse


As for the language of these verses, they were all written in Greek. As to whether that particular word was a corruption of an Aramaic word...I have my doubts, as Greek was the language of the NT and generally the language of writing during this time period.

aye, but the New Testament wasn't put together until 3 Centuries AFTER Jesus was here! BUT even if they were written in Martian, we would still look back to see what words Jesus ACTUALLY SPOKE!

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance!

Greeting Keltoi,

let's look at this:

And I will ask the Father and He will give you another Comforter to be with you forever - the Spirit of Truth

IF the Holy Spirit, ONE THIRD of God(!!) were here "teaching and dwelling" within Christians, would we not be able to find the ORIGINAL church that TWO THIRDS of God started?????? you would be Catholic IF that were true! are you Catholic? or are you a Protestant? wouldn't that make you a protester of the "Holy Spirit?"

unless your version of the Holy Spirit left, which would disprove the whole "forever" thing!

btw, what's the Holy Spirits name?